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View Full Version : Casters unable to cancel spell casts on Red is unfair


Wags
04-30-2019, 12:40 AM
I have created characters on this server looking for a classic version of EQ. This server is very close, but the custom change of not allowing spell cancelling is detrimental to the experience. I'm going to give reasons as to why I believe the alteration of this game mechanic should be reverted to its "live" state, i.e. why spell cancelling should be allowed. Please don't just jump past this post; really reconsider putting this mechanic back into the game. I spoke in game to players in out of character chat and every person that replied to me said how unfair this was. If you won't take just my word for it, then I beg you to listen to your players and take a poll and see what everyone thinks. I play both melee and caster characters and I sincerely believe this to be unfair.


Summary:
Melee characters already have many advantages over casters. Melee can fight while moving, melee can't be resisted but spells can be resisted every time, melee can't be interrupted, caster damage is nerfed in pvp, melee damage can be sped up, you can melee indefinitely without running out of endurance while casting is heavily limited by the amount of mana. Adding another advantage by not allowing spell cancelling is severe overkill and shows melee favoritism.

Explanations:
When casting a spell, several things can happen that will cause the loss of concentration of the caster and lead to the interruption of the spell. This is already a one sided mechanic; melee will keep swinging whether they have taken a hit, moved, got flung into the air, etc. There is nothing other than a full stun that will stop a melee character from swinging and attacking. This leads to the constant ability of melee characters to cause uninterrupted damage. So none of the melee offensive damage can be stopped, it can only be mitigated. Every single point of a caster's offensive damage can be prevented through interrupting spells. So already, melee has a massive advantage.

Now consider spell cast times. An average spell may have 4 or 5 seconds cast time. This means the caster must stand immobile for the entire duration to cast a spell while using a weapon has no such restriction. The entire time the enemy gets to attack and use abilities to try to damage the caster or interrupt the spell cast. If the cast is interrupted, then not only does the caster take damage, they also do no offensive damage for that time commitment. Now consider being trapped in a spell cast that you know is going to be interrupted. Now you are a sitting duck, unable to act until the full cast duration has expired while getting pounded on. People say that you should use "smart" casts, but why don't melee then have to use "smart" weapon attacks and suffer a complete shutdown of offense.

Now think about the realistic aspect of casting a spell. If you were casting a spell and something happened that caused your concentration to slip, you would immediately stop casting and start over. If you were casting a spell and a warrior bashes you right in the mouth, you aren't going to keep talking and saying the incantation, you will have to immediately start over. Spell cancelling enhances the role playing aspect of the game by giving it a more realistic feel.

I invite anyone to post their opinions in this thread.

heartbrand
04-30-2019, 12:44 AM
I agree, it makes casters even worse than they already are in end game pvp.

Swish2
04-30-2019, 12:48 AM
I think it's not until a Velious patch that good old "duck/cancel" was supposed to be put in on blue server. Sorry to be a Daldaen but hopefully that's accurate for the green server <3

Rogean
04-30-2019, 01:31 AM
custom change

It's not a custom change. It's a classic change.

Have fun with it on Green.

Dolalin
04-30-2019, 02:48 AM
Will there by any other game-changing classic interface changes for green? I can only get so hard.

Hideousclaw
04-30-2019, 03:19 AM
It's not a custom change. It's a classic change.

Have fun with it on Green.

Is this the first official post by CSR/Dev referring to it as "Green" since the image was posted?

DMN
04-30-2019, 03:29 AM
Wait, what? Duck canceling wasn't classic?

Jlpstrtkng
04-30-2019, 08:15 AM
Is there gonna be a PvE and a PvP green server

Cen
04-30-2019, 08:40 AM
We duck cancelled on RZ to be cheap in duels and fake out a cast that would start with /duel to accept at end of cast. I dont know what he was saying for sure there but the duck cancel is classic from release before kunark

azeth
04-30-2019, 08:49 AM
Is this the first official post by CSR/Dev referring to it as "Green" since the image was posted?

As if the Green tint was indicative enough?

LazyHydras
04-30-2019, 09:56 AM
I only started playing on Blue in 2017; was ducking out of spells not a thing for a long period of time? Or was it always there on Blue?

Oleris
04-30-2019, 10:46 AM
Enjoy spell book medding too. (not kidding)

Rimitto
04-30-2019, 10:50 AM
Should probably remove that whole "monsters get a stun on soloing casters when they try to run away because they are OoM due to several interrupts, fizzles, and resists" thing too. :rolleyes:

maskedmelon
04-30-2019, 11:54 AM
Wait, what? Duck canceling wasn't classic?

no, it wasn't. you had to move and wait for the spell to finish and hope you didn't accidentally banned through the movement (rare)

Moerne
04-30-2019, 12:22 PM
no, it wasn't. you had to move and wait for the spell to finish and hope you didn't accidentally banned through the movement (rare)

I remember a lot of jumping to try to cancel spells. Sometimes it would channel through anyway. I mostly remember doing it while hunting in the dreadlands, so I think that would have been pre-Velious. But it's also possible I just didn't know about spell ducking. There's a lot of stuff I know now that I didn't know about then.

Dolalin
04-30-2019, 01:32 PM
You would still duck to cancel spells, but you would remain ducked until the cast time ran out. Ducking guaranteed an interrupt

Squabbles123
04-30-2019, 01:36 PM
There a reason you can't just jump?

Jumping also cancels a spell just like ducking does, it also doesn't slow you like ducking, making it superior anyway.

Wags
04-30-2019, 03:46 PM
It was a game balancing change to bring casters more in line with melee characters. The PvP advantage for not having cancelling is the problem though. I'm interested in the scenario of pure casters when fighting a melee character in PvP. Even if allowed, the spell gems still must cycle through the global cooldown, so the delay in casting is still there. Adding spell cancelling back in would just cap the punishment allowed for initiating a spell cast.


I don't know the exact date it was added, but this mechanic was live during the Velius era for sure.

Dolalin
04-30-2019, 03:59 PM
There a reason you can't just jump?

Jumping also cancels a spell just like ducking does, it also doesn't slow you like ducking, making it superior anyway.

Nothing cancelled a spell in classic. Not jumping, not ducking. Cast timer would still run until finished. But if you remained ducked until cast timer finished, it would guarantee an interrupt every time.

Squabbles123
04-30-2019, 04:34 PM
Nothing cancelled a spell in classic. Not jumping, not ducking. Cast timer would still run until finished. But if you remained ducked until cast timer finished, it would guarantee an interrupt every time.

what version of classic are we talking about? Because jumping definitely interrupts spells right now...

Wags
04-30-2019, 05:10 PM
what version of classic are we talking about? Because jumping definitely interrupts spells right now...

Was talking about Red 1999. This is true actually, I just logged in and tested it. Amazingly, many people on the server aren't aware that this is possible. In ooc chat, there was a large discussion of how there was no way to cancel a spell. That's why I posted, it seems they were all wrong. I even tested ducking and sitting myself and figured that was it. At least there is one way to do it, so my original post stands corrected. I was always partial to ducking, but jumping will do just fine.

Zuranthium
04-30-2019, 05:11 PM
The upside is that you can meditate while casting. Although in terms of a roleplay perspective this makes less sense, people sitting down as they start casting, and then standing up right before the spell finishes. Cancel-casting is more realistic, between the two options.

I'm fine with no cancel-casting at all, but then "meditating while casting" should also be removed, and natural mana regen should be balanced better. Personally, I would change meditate to give large mana boost for every 30 seconds of doing it, rather than being based on the annoying mechanic of having 6 second server-wide ticks, which forces you to anal-retentively cast inbetween server ticks whenever possible, if you want to maximize your mana. This also makes the most sense from a roleplay perspective: meditating is about a period of calm thought, not just sitting down for a second.

karsten
04-30-2019, 06:24 PM
cool fix, now let's fix rooted dragons in tov

Quizlop
04-30-2019, 08:03 PM
Enjoy spell book medding too. (not kidding)

It doesn't matter that much unless they can make it so that looking at your spellbook blocks out your entire screen.

sacman08
05-01-2019, 08:55 PM
The not cancelling a spell refers to the spell casting bar disappearing and allowing for another cast immediately. The few secs saved in PVP could be huge. The command for this on live was something like /stopcast or Ctrl S. Interrupting any spell was always possible but casters had to wait for the entire spell bar cycle to finish before being able to cast again.

Squabbles123
05-03-2019, 01:36 PM
Was talking about Red 1999. This is true actually, I just logged in and tested it. Amazingly, many people on the server aren't aware that this is possible. In ooc chat, there was a large discussion of how there was no way to cancel a spell. That's why I posted, it seems they were all wrong. I even tested ducking and sitting myself and figured that was it. At least there is one way to do it, so my original post stands corrected. I was always partial to ducking, but jumping will do just fine.

Glad I could help

Wags
05-04-2019, 10:14 AM
Glad I could help

Absolutely!! Every caster that didn't know this thanks you! I do have one more question though. My caster isn't high enough level to levitate yet, and I was wondering if this is still possible while levitating. If not, is there any way while levitating to cancel?

kotton05
05-04-2019, 05:28 PM
cool fix, now let's fix rooted dragons in tov

working as intended sorry no one wants to clear ntov on red

Squabbles123
05-04-2019, 06:53 PM
Absolutely!! Every caster that didn't know this thanks you! I do have one more question though. My caster isn't high enough level to levitate yet, and I was wondering if this is still possible while levitating. If not, is there any way while levitating to cancel?

It does NOT work while levitating, which is why I usually cancel it when people give it to me.

Its amazing this wasn't more well known, I was jump cancelling in 1999 ;)