How to save up for cleric epic?

[pijan]

Unguided so I feel I'll end up having to MQ my epic. Anyone have advice on making coin as a cleric? It's been a bit hard to solo much that isn't undead.

[snyder43]

Soloing anything that gives you decent pp is incredibly difficult as a cleric. If I were you, I would make friends with a level 60 enchanter who likes to duo cash camps like PoM Puppets, Velks Brood Mother, Seb Crypt, Chardok named, etc.

Is there any reason why you don't want to join a guild? The cleric epic is one of the easiest epics to get, and can be one-grouped by experienced players.

[Legidias]

Why not guild up? Most of cleric epic is easy. Ixi, chardok, and ragefire are usually easy to recruit folks interested in the other loot (CoF, royals stuff, dragon stuff).

[pijan]

My play time is a bit erratic which makes committing to a guild difficult. I would love to join one, but I'd feel bad not always being available.

[snyder43]

Join a more casual guild that has a good record of getting people their epics. Kittens, Second Sons, Dawn Believers, Anonymous, etc.

No guild expects all of their members to show up to everything.

[Jimjam]

My play time is a bit erratic which makes committing to a guild difficult. I would love to join one, but I'd feel bad not always being available.

Never being available to any guild at all is worse. Shame on you!!

[Crede]

Unguided so I feel I'll end up having to MQ my epic. Anyone have advice on making coin as a cleric? It's been a bit hard to solo much that isn't undead.

Cleric is a terrible char for this. Make a mage or druid porting to farm the pp.

[pijan]

Never being available to any guild at all is worse. Shame on you!!

I suppose. I more look at it like I was getting help with an epic that will have limited value to the guild. Felt selfish to me.

[Octopath]

Shelve your toon for a month. Make a mule in tunnel, transfer all your pp to him. Tunnel quest with a vengeance until your at 50k

[loramin]

I suppose. I more look at it like I was getting help with an epic that will have limited value to the guild. Felt selfish to me.

I think what a lot of unguilded people don't realize is that guilds are EQ's natural selfishness channeling mechanism. Everyone in a guild is selfish :)

Everyone joins the guild to get gear for their character. Sure they might become friends and do things to help each other outside of raids from time to time, but they don't go to raids for the "fun" or for the "community": they go for the DKP (raid points) and loot (purchased with those DKP).

That's the beauty of guilds: you get scores of people all working together for entirely selfish reasons, but the guild channels that selfishness to let everyone accomplish things they never could on their own.

Snyder43 was dead-on:

Join a more casual guild that has a good record of getting people their epics. Kittens, Second Sons, Dawn Believers, Anonymous, etc.

No guild expects all of their members to show up to everything.

I can't speak for the other guilds, but Anon has only two fixed raid nights a week, plus some sporadic raiding other nights. If you can make time in your life to spend a few hours on just one of either Wednesday at 5pm PST/8pm EST (Plane of Sky night) or Friday same time (Hot night), then you can selfishly get yourself a suit of Dragon armor and/or some fun Sky gear ... while at the same time unselfishly helping everyone else.

Even if you only make it to just one raid a week, and don't raid at all the rest of the time, then when we do "epic fight nights" (which we do fairly often) I guarantee everyone will be more than happy to help you get your epic. And then of course after you get your epic you could always leave ... but I suspect you'll want other gear improvements after that, and what better way to get it than to stick around?

[pijan]

I think what a lot of unguilded people don't realize is that guilds are EQ's natural selfishness channeling mechanism. Everyone in a guild is selfish :)

Everyone joins the guild to get gear for their character. Sure they might become friends and do things to help each other outside of raids from time to time, but they don't go to raids for the "fun" or for the "community": they go for the DKP (raid points) and loot (purchased with those DKP).

That's the beauty of guilds: you get scores of people all working together for entirely selfish reasons, but the guild channels that selfishness to let everyone accomplish things they never could on their own.

Snyder43 was dead-on:



I can't speak for the other guilds, but Anon has only two fixed raid nights a week, plus some sporadic raiding other nights. If you can make time in your life to spend a few hours on just one of either Wednesday at 5pm PST/8pm EST (Plane of Sky night) or Friday same time (Hot night), then you can selfishly get yourself a suit of Dragon armor and/or some fun Sky gear ... while at the same time unselfishly helping everyone else.

Even if you only make it to just one raid a week, and don't raid at all the rest of the time, then when we do "epic fight nights" (which we do fairly often) I guarantee everyone will be more than happy to help you get your epic. And then of course after you get your epic you could always leave ... but I suspect you'll want other gear improvements after that, and what better way to get it than to stick around?

Good points. That's some food for though for me.

[Danth]

I think what a lot of unguilded people don't realize is that guilds are EQ's natural selfishness channeling mechanism. Everyone in a guild is selfish :)

Everyone joins the guild to get gear for their character. Sure they might become friends and do things to help each other outside of raids from time to time, but they don't go to raids for the "fun" or for the "community": they go for the DKP (raid points) and loot (purchased with those DKP).

Everyone?

Not hardly. I haven't been in a guild which helped me obtain even a single item in at least a couple years now, and even before I always preferred obtaining most my stuff myself. I refuse to join a guild that uses any sort of DKP on general principle. EQ's not simply about pixels for some folks. Step back and take a breath, and don't let the pixel sickness claim you.

Cleric epic is unique. If you aren't in a guild you don't need it at all. If you're in a medium- to higher-end guild, most such guilds are eager to help cleric mains get the click stick. Main place where it's difficult is in lower-end guilds that cannot effectively contest Ragefire. In that kind of situation the best you can do is try to participate in some high-value cash camps and win some drops. Duo with an Enchanter is good advice that can reliably earn decent amounts of platinum relatively quickly.

Danth

[Snaggles]

It's annoying advice but I'd probably start an alt to grind up. By your 30's with a monk or pet class you can farm FS. By your 40's you can kill hill giants. Having an alt is fun besides the farming benefit. There will be times you want to play but don't have time to group or can't find one; that's where the solo class comes in handy.

If not a farming type I would just keep leveling up. Eventually you will be in groups and win some rolls. Just have restraint on not buying silly weird crap you cannot resell. You will eventually have the liquidity for your sparkle hammer :).

[Gozuk]

What level are you anyways? My advice for making plat as a Cleric would be..... Old Sebilis

[loramin]

Everyone?

Not hardly. I haven't been in a guild which helped me obtain even a single item in at least a couple years now, and even before I always preferred obtaining most my stuff myself. I refuse to join a guild that uses any sort of DKP on general principle. EQ's not simply about pixels for some folks. Step back and take a breath, and don't let the pixel sickness claim you.


Ok I guess I should have qualified raid guild (ie. the type you need to do epic raid encounters). Obviously no one joins Dial a Port or family guilds for the phat lewtz :)

[pijan]

What level are you anyways? My advice for making plat as a Cleric would be..... Old Sebilis

Level 44 currently so I think I'm a bit away from seb.

[Jimjam]

You have naltron's, cheal and /role... Just pray no one dies and wants a 90%+ rez ;)

[snyder43]

Level 44 currently so I think I'm a bit away from seb.

I've actually seen a few level 60 enchanters farming stuff with clerics in their 40s. It's not ideal for them, but it's better than no Complete Heal at all!

[pijan]

Sounds like I need to make some chanter friends

[fastboy21]

I think what a lot of unguilded people don't realize is that guilds are EQ's natural selfishness channeling mechanism. Everyone in a guild is selfish :)

Everyone joins the guild to get gear for their character. Sure they might become friends and do things to help each other outside of raids from time to time, but they don't go to raids for the "fun" or for the "community": they go for the DKP (raid points) and loot (purchased with those DKP).


This is so cynical and goes against everything I play MMOs for...it is also probably true for most guilds and most players.

I haven't joined another guild on p99 since Divinity left...and I'll tell you that most of the folks in that guild were not playing in it out of a drive for DKP.

[mcoy]

Best bet is to just level up. By level 54 with reckoning you can solo all of the mobs to get the pieces to spawn Ixi and Rage. Since both of these can drop items that others want, it's relatively easy to recruit people to help. With the renewed interest in Chardok, getting a royals group together shouldn't be too hard.

-Mcoy

[loramin]

This is so cynical and goes against everything I play MMOs for...it is also probably true for most guilds and most players.

I haven't joined another guild on p99 since Divinity left...and I'll tell you that most of the folks in that guild were not playing in it out of a drive for DKP.

Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).

[Videri]

If you join a guild, they will want you to get your epic. Even if you don't play 16 hours a day. Cleric epics not only aid the entire guild by increasing cleric mana pools and facilitating recovery from raid wipes - they also provide loot to other players from the requisite Ixiblat and Ragefire kills. I bet you if you join a guild, people will ask you how they can help you with your epic. Try it.

[Crede]

Unguided so I feel I'll end up having to MQ my epic. Anyone have advice on making coin as a cleric? It's been a bit hard to solo much that isn't undead.

You picked the wrong class to make coin. Start a mage, extremely cheap to gear, level one up, and summon WR bags to farm remote dungeons and enough pp for anything your heart desires

[Sajan]

If you make it to 56 without your epic it wouldn't take a terribly long time to farm enough plat to buy it. Although my alt Cleric has an epic and is 56, I get several tells within an hour or two of just farting around ingame for rezzes from desperate people paying obscene amounts in donations. I can clear about 1k an hour on average just by being online and LFG (read: available to run around Norrath). The cash will also flow quickly by just being in a group grinding exp in high traffic zones like KC and Sebilis at 56, when people know you can 96% rez regardless of your epic status. So I disagree with Cleric being the wrong class for making plat as long as you can make it to 56. Focus on leveling!

[bodenn]

Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).


TSS doesn't use DKP only need before greed. We do fine, and i see less greedy people than i have in others.

[username17]

... but I suspect you'll want other gear improvements after that, and what better way to get it than to stick around?


^ Is how I was in Anonymous for 5+ years.

5 50+ toons most with their epics. 2-3 of them (still) camped in Sky for the fun loot up there.
Anonymous is a great group of people. But any casual guild will likely be a good fit for you.
Just make it clear that your play times are limited and sporadic.

[Troxx]

TSS doesn't use DKP only need before greed. We do fine, and i see less greedy people than i have in others.

ESSAY incoming!!

Need before greed works out for the lowest common denominator. Where it is prone to repeated failure is your high value dedicated raider who is mostly fully geared minus a few key pieces. That person shows up consistently, works hard helping others get what they need, and then when the one of those few pieces they actually need drops are now “need” rolling on equal footing against a dozen or 2 other people who also “need” but maybe show up less consistently or maybe won 2-10 items while the dedicated raider was patiently waiting for his chance while others were making gains all along.

It works great for a bunch but unfortunately often ends up failing the guild when/if your core raiders get frustrated and move on.

I’ve seen it in multiple guilds both love and on p99. Over the years the most obvious were the main tanks. Some of them raid leaders. I can remember at least 3 main tanks I saw eventually walk, not in a fit of rage but just in slowly building disappointment. They left quietly and left a massive vacuum in their wake.

Imagine the following:

You have a tight knit family guild. Small, everyone happy, casual. Content starts small then builds. More slowly join and the guild finally gets on the cusp of doing content with meaningful rewards. Guild recruits and expands modestly. Content falls, rewards drop. Now more want to join. You now have a moderately large “family” guild with 70-90% casual population and 10-30% high attendance core value players. 2 of them are your reliable main tank warriors. They’ve been around forever. They’re always there. They accumulated the best of what the guild was doing and are ready to take that next step but now there are a bunch of new or low attendance folks to gear up. Hungry mouths to feed. They dutifully lead and continue spearhead the charge for that content already conquered. Weeks or months go by and they help others (often brand new) get theirs and get nothing themselves. Finally a big mob drops. Next tier items, but it’s need vs greed. Everyone needs that thing, it’s better than anyone has. Everyone goes in and murphy’s Law of the universe kicks in and the new guy, low level guy, low attendance guy (etc) wins it. It stings but what the hell right? Maybe a month goes by before the next trophy kill but this cycle continues...

Now what does that old timer do? It’s a family guild and “dkp” is a four letter word. But this “family” guild is a lot less recognizable due to the ballooning size. It’s not a tight squad anymore, more of a casual horde with multiple cliques.

What happens? Inevitably the core folk feel less and less connected to the guild and some (or all) of them inevitably either move on to greener pastures or stop logging on. When your reliably “always there” main tanks, clerics, or other depart it hurts. Maybe some raid nights get called off due to lack of critical pullers/tanks/healers. Raids are less predictable. Newer folk not deeply connected to the guild may or may not disappear in waves.

-Need before greed favors the lowest common denominator.
-Loot council is highly (HIGHLY) susceptible to corruption, favoritism, or at least the perception thereof even if not present.

DKP is fair and not bias. There are bad ways to set it up where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

This isn’t a shameless plug for my guild. I’ve been in several guilds in the last decade who use the same exact or similar process:

-You earn dkp
-no minimum attendance requirements but if you’re online you help
-you bid dkp for things you want.
-you want it? You bid for it. Whatever it’s worth to you you bid that. Want it “bigger” than others? Bid bigger! You win, you pay :)
-mains prioritized over alts by bid caps on non mains.

DKP ain’t a 4 letter word. It is literally the most fair way for everyone in the guild. Play as much as you want. Help as much as you can. You are rewarded the degree to which you help and play with your buddies.

When I finally admitted Blackheart Pirates was dead and considered joining p99 raiding (on my terms) that’s the structure I looked for. I’m busy, I need to be able to focus on life/work/family for a week or 3 from time to time. I wanted a guild that I could be there a lot or a little without penalty or judgement. Play as hard as I want/can, back off as I need or life demands. I wanted a guild where there still safeguards in that mains are more important than alts but not so importantly that a main could scoop up a thing for 2dkp when I’d pay 50 for my own alt. Mains who really want a thing have to start over 100 and we all know that.

Blood Guard has that structure. They were a blast to be around and were/are legitimately nice guys/gals. Other guilds will always have shifting views of the competition ... mad/bad/sad/jerks/etc. I gave em a try and I’m still there. It was a good choice ;). There are plenty of good guilds with good people but I’m happy where I am.

[pijan]

If anyone cares I was able to get my epic. I won 2 very high value items in Seb. Almost 60 now too!

[Auvdar]

Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).

That's not what he was saying. No one in Divinity had a "me before them" attitude. Loot was never a priority for people. You got loot sure, you have to in order to progress. But no one went in with a "I better get that item" mentality either. The vast majority of people didn't care who got what.

I mean, I get exactly what you're saying. And that is the usual standard with guilds in MMOs in general. Divinity just had a different feel to how people interacted with each other in terms of loot. It's hard to explain, especially being with them since basically day one the mentality grew natural to me.

It sounds odd on the outside, but trust me.

edit: DKP almost always works out more fairly agreed. This was just a rare group of people that DKP was never really needed. I mean, Divinity did try it once back in late 2009 early 2010... it was almost unanimously deemed pointless. But for most situations, DKP is the way to go yes.

[Gozuk]

My advice for making plat as a Cleric would be..... Old Sebilis