Enchanter; should I reroll?

[Treehorn]

Just started playing again with RL friends after not playing for 5 years or so -- my highest level character is a 23 DE Enchanter -- Apparently I put 25 points into INT and 5 into CHA, which I understand is the opposite of what one ought to do, and that DE Hide no longer grants invis vs undead, which is why I recall choosing that race in the first place (afk purposes).

Should I consider rerolling? Is Character creation INT-vs-CHA that big of a deal? How many hours would it take me to get back up to level 23, roughly? Have pretty decent gear, from doing a dozen-or-so Stein of Moggok runs back when I played before.

Thanks in advance for advice.

[DMN]

You been here since 2010. Your highest character is 23. Don't even consider re-rolling. The whole cha-int thing is really only relevant in later levels and occasionally for corpse recovery. You can simply focus primarily on getting charisma gear. i think a De is perfect for you actually, because it wil probably take you forever to get gaz ring and the hide will come in handy for charm breaking.

[Nycon43]

Can get your CHA up pretty easily with cheap gear, I'd just keep leveling your dark elf.

[JickFromTholuxe]

I have a high-elf Enchanter who did the same as you: only 5 into CHA.

In the end-game, when calming through a dungeon naked with nothing but your starting stats and a +50 CHA buff, that extra +25 CHA will feel very worth it. You can lose sleep over that shit. :) Even at 60, I have to sacrifice most of my gear slots for some pitiful amount of CHA on a crappy item just to stay max, but I don't have a Neriad Shawl or epic yet.

You can get to level 13ish with just the Kaladim bone chips quests, so the question for you is about whether you want to grind ~10 levels in Oasis / Unrest before you reach parity with your old main. If your friends are also lowbies, then perhaps it'd help you reconnect with them faster? IMO, I would never even consider starting another Enchanter without max-CHA, but I don't hate my Enchanter main for his original sins.

[kjs86z]

I'd re-roll.

1-23 is pretty easy. If you ever did find yourself nearing 60 knowing you could have an extra 20 CHA....you'd probably be pretty upset.

[deven1313]

I posted a thread with the same question a while back. I just kept going and am now in my 50s. I say, keep going. As others said, you can get high CHA with gear plus you get CHA buffs later. I am also in the camp that believes CHA is a bit overrated anyways. It helps reduce critical resists with the lull/calm line of spells, helps mezzes and charm stick (which never seem to get resisted anyway,) but has little effect on charm duration which is more related to the MR and level of the mob. I'm not saying you shouldn't strive for high CHA, but IMO HP is more important for survivability, at least early on.

[Crede]

Depends what you want to do at 60 tbh. Solo artist? Prob reroll. Otherwise, it’s fine. If you’re constantly grouping/raiding INT is arguably better than cha anyway.

[stebbins99]

Someone once told my ENC buddy that he "should obviously re-roll" as he forgot to put the +5 points into AGI as a Erudite (AC penalty for having AGI >75).

He considered this but then realized that keeping an extra +5 AGI via a gear slot or two wasn't that big of an issue (ie I don't think he's ever had to "choose" gear over the other due to AGI considerations). Turns out enough random pieces have kept his AGI 75+ all the way through lvl 53.

However, if you're only level 23 and are having serious contemplation about your stat distribution, *now* is the time to reroll-- as others have said, you can get to lvl 15-ish via the bone chip quest really quickly. You could possibly get to lvl 23 again in just a day or two. At 23, you're probably like 1-2% into your character's EXP lifespan at this juncture.

Conversely, if you allow yourself to get into the 40s and are still feeling "stat distribution envy," it's going to be much harder to catch-up to your buddies via reroll. If you were level 40-45, I'd tell you to stick it out. However, you are still "young enough" to make this change if you so desire!

Slightly unrelated example:
I also have a group of buddies I play with and leveled up a cleric-- a class I originally had no interest in playing-- as it seemed to complete the group. Turns out I hated playing the cleric and switched to another toon (cleric was 41 at the time). As painful as it was, I'm still very happy I rerolled-- my only regret is that I wish I would have rerolled sooner! So, please learn from me on that at least. Wish you the best of luck!

[branamil]

No you should not. You can fix any stat with gear, and max both with level 60 gear if you want.

[Thorondor]

I posted a thread with the same question a while back. I just kept going and am now in my 50s. I say, keep going. As others said, you can get high CHA with gear plus you get CHA buffs later. I am also in the camp that believes CHA is a bit overrated anyways. It helps reduce critical resists with the lull/calm line of spells, helps mezzes and charm stick (which never seem to get resisted anyway,) but has little effect on charm duration which is more related to the MR and level of the mob. I'm not saying you shouldn't strive for high CHA, but IMO HP is more important for survivability, at least early on.

Its not "more related to MR and level check"

Its literally 1% save chance on charmbreak/tick per 10 cha up to 200, and then its 1% per 11 cha up to 255.

With all things MR and Lvl-delta being equal among chanters, the difference between a 150cha (15% save check) chanter and a 255cha (25% save check) chanter means the former will fail to save on a charmbreak 40% more often than a max cha chanter succeeds at saving against a charm break.

Out in oractical terms, suppose the base chance of charmbreak is 5% with zero cha on a tashed mob 1 level below u (avg once/2minute for charmbreak)

A 25% save chance would extend your average charm duration from 120sec to 120s/.75 = 160s or 26.67ticks given the spekl itself has the duration capability to last that long.

Likewise a 15% save chance extends your 120s duration 120s/.85 =142s =23.5ticks

This has direct relevance to the mana/sec spent maintaining the charm, and everyone know mana/sec is really the only thing that matters in a long grind/crawl.

[Isey]

I'm level 30 now, so stuck with my enchanter. My highest lvel character on p99, and my "main".

I have 220 CHA and 126 INT with a Jesters Crown (I was able to sell a Shiny Brass Idol, an easy camp, for enough to buy all the CHA gear I needed. So even without the jesters at 30 I'd have 190 CHA and 156 INT.

And I went 20 int 5 CHA.

It's not hard to get to the 200 cap. In fact, I'll probably take the crown off soon to get my int back. The hours put in are hard to get back.

[Treehorn]

Damn... y'all are pretty balanced on each side here, ha ha. No help at all! (jk)

Additional info:

I'm likely never going to make it to 60 -- so if that's a key factor, it's an easy decision! I work a ton, am starting a side-business with a friend, spend all the time I can with my life partner, lead an active social life, and am about to start working toward a second master's degree. EQ was a formative part of my teen years, picking it up as a 14 year-old in '99 with a handful of RL friends, two of whom I am now playing with again, cracking each other up on Discord while we adventure in all the places we never did back then, sloppy young noobs that we were. I was an Enchanter then, too.

I like the character I rolled almost a decade ago: an insidiously charming, ambiguously malevolent trickster known only as "Lies". He's also done a lot of faction grinding for his level (non-KoS most places even in DE form, and I believe I'm ally with ogres even in Dwarf form), and playing again for the first time in well over 5 years he's starting to grow on me again.

I very luckily found a pre-nerf CoS in my Iksar Necro alt's bank -- he's only level 9 and couldn't even use the proc yet -- so I sold it and grabbed a Gob Ring, and am now working on getting decked out in CHA gear with the remaining 25k. Considering JBoots but my friends are a DWF PLD & HLF DRU, so I reckon I can probably get buy with a few bottles of SoW potion.

Even if I rerolled with 20 pts in CHA as a DE, Gnome or Erudite, I'd still be as far away from min-maxing compared to if I'd rolled a High Elf, right? And I will skin myself alive and roll in salt before I ever play one of those smug twats.

EQ's Enchanter is the most fun I've ever had with any class in any MMO (made it to 56 or so back in live when PoP dropped and destroyed the game). There's just something about influencing and commanding the random factors in battle, in the terrifying and unpredictable environments of Norrath, and using quick decision-making to shut down crises and maximize opportunities, that is really exhilarating and fulfilling. There's just nothing else like it.

[Isey]

Hey Lies! I play Florimel. I was camping the GG ring since I can't afford to buy one (heh).

I'm never raiding or min-maxing either. Don't reroll - as mentioned, there is so much gear available at such reasonable prices you can stack STA, or CHA, or whatever you want. Especially if you are just playing for the journey.

[deven1313]

Its not "more related to MR and level check"

Its literally 1% save chance on charmbreak/tick per 10 cha up to 200, and then its 1% per 11 cha up to 255.

With all things MR and Lvl-delta being equal among chanters, the difference between a 150cha (15% save check) chanter and a 255cha (25% save check) chanter means the former will fail to save on a charmbreak 40% more often than a max cha chanter succeeds at saving against a charm break.

Out in oractical terms, suppose the base chance of charmbreak is 5% with zero cha on a tashed mob 1 level below u (avg once/2minute for charmbreak)

A 25% save chance would extend your average charm duration from 120sec to 120s/.75 = 160s or 26.67ticks given the spekl itself has the duration capability to last that long.

Likewise a 15% save chance extends your 120s duration 120s/.85 =142s =23.5ticks

This has direct relevance to the mana/sec spent maintaining the charm, and everyone know mana/sec is really the only thing that matters in a long grind/crawl.

Interesting. I would be interested in the source of this information. Was it posted at some point by devs? Not doubting you, but there has been some debate about how much CHA affects charm duration. Also, what about MR and mob level? What is the formula for how those play into charm duration?

[Crede]

Pretty sure someone tested this. Search the forum threads(I’m at work or I would). Was basically concluded that cha is an important factor. But level and mr are still more important.

[Dillusional]

I wouldn't reroll, you sound like a casual player, you won't be losing sleep about not being able to replace your CHA gear with better HP gear in the end game. Enjoy your dark elf enchanter =). Now if you had put your points into like strength and wisdom or something. I would say re-roll. 25int 5cha on a dark elf certainly isn't min/max but it's a fine way to spend your points for a casual enchanter in this era. Plenty of good CHA gear to be had.

[DMN]

Pretty sure someone tested this. Search the forum threads(I’m at work or I would). Was basically concluded that cha is an important factor. But level and mr are still more important.

I'd question them as well. The soft cap should reduce effectiveness of a stat point way more than 10%.

[Thorondor]

Interesting. I would be interested in the source of this information. Was it posted at some point by devs? Not doubting you, but there has been some debate about how much CHA affects charm duration. Also, what about MR and mob level? What is the formula for how those play into charm duration?

Search the official forums. Mykaylla from ROI did most of the legwork, along with Dandin and was confirmed by dev on the hard-limits where heroic-cha essentially does absolutely nothing despite post-cap gains. There was some ambiguity about the translation of CHA gains with the level/aa cap-increases from PoP onward

[wagorf]

No you should not. You can fix any stat with gear, and max both with level 60 gear if you want.

this is not true - as a de i put everything into sta when i first started, at 60 even with full ss armor and neriad shawl and epic u wont max cha or int. of course, if u can get ntov gears its a diff story, but how many casual players can get there?

i do regret not putting everything into cha or int because sta is totally useless, but im still able to solo cash farm at ease, and i always wish i have more HP

if ur going to lose sleep cuz ur at 210 cha and not 255, then reroll, but there is no way u can measure the impact of that extra 45 cha. but i do understand why people is bothered from min/max perpsective

[Pringles]

As a DE that lack of charisma is gonna be painful. Unless you want to raid velious your choice of hp gear while balancing for 255 cha is limited. If you want to maintain max charisma you will need to drop hundreds of hp or mana. Course that's min/max and far in the future but you might regret it one day. Nothing wrong with having a clarity bot for buds.

Here's my chanters outfit try to find 20 charisma of upgrades while maintaining hp/mana :(
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Pons

[Thorondor]

As a DE that lack of charisma is gonna be painful. Unless you want to raid velious your choice of hp gear while balancing for 255 cha is limited. If you want to maintain max charisma you will need to drop hundreds of hp or mana. Course that's min/max and far in the future but you might regret it one day. Nothing wrong with having a clarity bot for buds.

Here's my chanters outfit try to find 20 charisma of upgrades while maintaining hp/mana :(
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Pons
Not a lot of opportunity to charm in p99s raid scene. Int and hp gear for raiding, cha for grouping.

[Wallicker]

Could get belt of inconsistency and add 30 hp/mana

[zarza]

yea CHA is very worth stats for any races and hard to find CHA stats from highend gears tho

all raid guild encs needs high CHA for charm dps in raid like (PoF, PoG, Kael, Yelinak etc)

i have to give up 100ish hp and 60ish ac on my enc if i going to make MAX CHA mode

because my currently DE enc has 158CHA unbuffed for keeping hp/ac/mana/resist good

some bis items has no CHA stats, you could keeping more equip non-cha bis items

depends on your basic CHA stats or you need to swaps cha gears like me

highelf has 20cha more than darkelf.. thats why highelf is min-max race.

imagine if you are DE race + 5 CHA start

then your cha is -40 less than highelf race who 25cha start

40cha is bigggggggggggggg reroll is good tho