Peacebringer vs IFS after *maybe* next patch

[Spacebar]

I'm sure this has already been discussed somewhere, but couldn't find a clear answer.

Any consensus on which of these weapons (Peacebringer or IFS) will be better after the 2h revamp that will eventually be implemented? I guess also factoring in monks getting triple attack, but maybe not factoring weight as an issue.

Also, any theorycrafting on why and how much one might be better than the other?

[Spacebar]

Also, how would these parse compared to Epic/SoS?

[DMN]

Looks like peace will do about 3% more damage. So you have to ask yourself is that extra 6 weight is worth that bit of DPS.

[kjs86z]

IFS b/c weight.

[Wickedbane]

IFS if you have any type of haste.

[jolanar]

Assuming the damage is a few percent similar, I would go with the IFS for a few reasons: Higher riposte damage for you/fewer ripostes from the monster. Lower damage from damage shield mobs. Weighs less. Looks 100x cooler.

[Troxx]

Also, how would these parse compared to Epic/SoS?

I expect they will be better. As it currently stands (pre-patch) they’re not far behind.

[DMN]

Damage with epic and SoS is virtually identical to the IFS and likewise 3% behind peace.

I had to assume max haste, however, and no accounting for the +20 str on the epic.

[Legidias]

Depends on what you be fightin, vs high AC / high level mobs, DW > 2H.

[Troxx]

Depends on what you be fightin, vs high AC / high level mobs, DW > 2H.

After the next patch a 30 delay 2hander will generate more total damage bonus than 16 delay epic. 11 damage at a time 1.6 seconds (6.88 per second potential) compared to a 30 delay 2hander which applies. 29 damage per 3 seconds (9.66 per second potential) 40 delay will be 34 per 4 seconds (8.55 per second potential).

This issue will be turned on its head. Fast mainhand used to be favored with high level high ac thanks specifically to damage bonus. After the next patch, 2hander actually holds the advantage even when you use the ultrafast 16 delay monk epic fist.

TStaff in particular is going to be a monster of a weapon for those who don’t have access to velious raid level weaponry. IFS and peacebringer will be more budget friendly alternatives that I expect will likewise beat out any dual wield combination below the velious raid level - especially if the monk is level 60 for the mainhand triple attack.

[Spacebar]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I got the answer I was looking for. Was mostly trying to get an idea of if it was worth getting a 2hander before next patch since I expect the price on them to inflate a bit after it goes live.

[Wallicker]

What you really should be figuring out is how to get a coth to PoM to get that BLAM stick!!
Blam stick + best ratio offhand is the new non raid target setup outside ToV and Tunare loot!! Believe it!

[Troxx]

I would be interested in seeing how well blam stick performs after the patch but I still expect Tstaff to put out more raw damage on both high and low ac mobs, especially if the monk is level 60 for innate triple attack. All of Tstaff damage directly benefits from innate triple attack (primary hand only). In any dual wield set-up, it will only affect primary hand.

Having said that ... blam stick should be sexy. It's slow though.

Epic ((9x2)+11)/16 = 1.81 for primary hand
Blam ((30x2)+11)/40 = 1.77

Primary hand the simple math puts epic fist superior to blam stick due to speed. The calculation is anything but straightforward when you factor in the effects of strength on actual damage dealt but as a general rule of thumb it holds true. Slow speed on blam stick may well have it still behind epic for primary hand dps.

For non-monks who don't have access to a wickedly fast 9/16 ratio, blam stick is a lot flashier.

[Troxx]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I got the answer I was looking for. Was mostly trying to get an idea of if it was worth getting a 2hander before next patch since I expect the price on them to inflate a bit after it goes live.

PB/IFS at a minimum will hold value for whatever you buy it at. Chance of going up is very real. Chance of going down? Non-existent.

[Wallicker]

If only DPS was as simple as that formula lol... but it’s not with high afk on low AC mobs (non-raid group content) and a monk at 255 str try your formula out with x3.2 that’s closer to a more accurate ratio.

[Troxx]

Using a very generous 3.2 (not exactly realistic)

Epic: 2.49
Blam: 2.67

7% better than epic with a ballsy_high 3.2. That just goes to show the critical weakness for this weapon with regards to the monk class. 16 delay is so blisteringly fast enough it compensates quite well for the inferior ratio. If only blam stick were offhand usable :)

TStaff with 3.2 after the dmg bonus change goes live?

4.06

Blam stick + SoM offhand
Mh + mh(da) + oh(DW) + oh(DaDw)
2.67 + 1.82 + 1.22 + 0.83 = 6.54

TStaff = 4.06 + 2.76 = 6.82 (then add in proc dps)

So if you use a very generous and less than realistic 3.2 the TStaff still wins. If the monk is 60 with triple attack 2hander pulls even further ahead. If you use any variable lower than 3.2, blam stick falls yet further behind (and using 2 it is worse than epic). The higher the mob level and ac, the lower modifier you have to assume.

Blam stick is a good weapon but functionally should perform within spitting distance of epic because it is mainhand only (-2% to +7%). It’s not going to be better than other pre velious options. Don’t forget Wu’s Fist of Mastery at 16/22. Whether using 2 or 3.2 it will beat out the blamo as well and it’s a plane of sky equipment.

[Wallicker]

You need to add in triple attack for main hand dw

[Troxx]

Only applies for level 60s. Inclusion of triple attack favors 2handers but we can do that easily.

If triple attack is 5%:

Add 0.203 to TStaff = 7.023
Add 0.1335 to the DW = 6.67

Staff pulls ahead by 0.0695

IFS @ x3.2: 3.89 + 2.645 + 0.1945 = 6.72

Even IFS beats blam stick + SoM at 60.

The higher the triple attack bonus the more heavily it favors 2hander weapons.

No matter how you run the numbers (I did it last night with a x5 modifier) TStaff will beat any non-velious raid dual wield setup other than 2x Wu’s fist of mastery. With Wu’s and x3.2 and 5% triple attack:

2.83 + 1.924 + 1.924 + 1.308 + 0.1415 = 8.13

TStaff procs will close the gap a bit.

If you use a 2x mod:

TStaff: 2.9 + 1.972 + 0.145 = 5.017
Wu’s: 1.95 + 1.32 + 1.32 + 0.902 + 0.0975 = 5.589
IFS: 2.75 + 1.87 + 0.1375 = 4.756

TStaff procs would close the gap a bit

TLDR version:

If and when the patch goes live no non-raid weapons will beat TStaff. Dual Wu’s fists and up are the only competitors. IFS and PB are not far behind TStaff.

So yes ... buy an IFS or PB.

[Wallicker]

Haha I’ve seen the parses of this weapon on low AC mobs 100+ dps without anything besides worn and epic haste.

[kjs86z]

So anyone have some more info on Blam Stick now?

59.5 monk here w/ epic + ada club. Mostly dwell in sebilis. Should I be getting my butt to PoM and getting a blam stick?

[Troxx]

Haha I’ve seen the parses of this weapon on low AC mobs 100+ dps without anything besides worn and epic haste.

Cool. I’ve seen and logged plenty of parses of this weapon well below 100 dps. Isolated parses are not indicative of expected sustained performance.

I’ve SEEN parses on low ac mobs with epic/SoM over 100dps. I’ve also had ridiculously lucky TStaff fights of my own over 140dps. If the stars and planets align and you get a string of never missing, always hitting high, always double attacking and 4-5 procs in a minute ... anomalies happen.

My 59 monk (epic/SoM vs TStaff) has fought side by side with Blam/SoM monks. The dps is pretty similar. It’s a good weapon for sure and I will be going out of my way to get one to play with but it’s not a massively game changing item for an epic monk. For a ranger or a warrior focusing on a dps role it’s a very very solid item. They don’t have the same caliber of weapon ratios that monks have.

We can go back and forth forever, but like it or not damage output is based on mathematical equations/mechanics. The variables are known. Weapon ratios +/- procs can be plugged in to calculate expected outcomes and the math in this situation is pretty straightforward. It has an excellent ratio that suffers from very slow speed. Epic has a ratio measurably worse (75% of the blam stick) but a speed 2.5x faster for dmg bonus application. Performance-wise they are within spitting distance of each other. Blam can pull ahead on trivial content. Epic can pull ahead on high ac content.

TStaff/IFS/PB are expected to beat both of them if and when the final patch goes live.

[Troxx]

Spent a few hours in Kael today before the quake. Epic/SoM (My monk is 59) won out over Blam/SoM (2 guys level 60) ~70% of the time. Sometimes we were about the same, rarely the blam was a bit higher. Never were we that far apart, and never did anyone parse consistently over 80 dps (much less 100+ dps) with 255 str and AQ level ench haste.

On average epic won out.
Uncommonly blam won out.

In general, they were close enough that it didn’t matter. On trivial content with low ac I’m sure the Blam would have fared a bit better. With Avatar and CoP the balance would likewise shift in a bit more in favor of the Blam.

Realistically though? They’re so close you might as well consider them equal Wallicker.

Epic fist is that good.