Enchanter "DPS"

[1asdfasdf1]

What I see:


Charm breaks (as intended)
Healer blows 1/4 or more of their mana (hope they weren't OOM!) keeping enchanter alive while enchanter regains Charm.
Repeat


Would that combination of wasted mana from the cleric, and potentially wasted mana from the enchanter, not be better served just rolling up nuker?

Charming is "fun" but I also see the landscape littered with the corpses of enchanters.

General XP grinding charmed pet DPS is a waste and an unnecessary risk. Change my mind.

[branamil]

The ench and cleric both have to be alert with quick stuns if charm breaks. If neither of them are stunning or the ench has poor pet control in general it is worse for the group, yes.

But if they are both good, the pet will do the most damage by far and XP will be faster.

[stebbins99]

As someone who has grouped with a charming enchanter quite a bit, here's my insight:

*A charmed, hasted, weaponized pet can mow through mobs really fast compared to the damage output from player-characters of similar level

*If you have a tank, a pet described above with the ability to backstab will make things go even faster

*Enchanters definitely die more than other classes, but they are also the most-powerful member of the group when charming

*I've seen an enchanter and cleric duo mobs and parts of dungeons that groups of 4-6 PCs (without the CLE/ENC backbone) struggle to defeat

That said, if maximizing DPS from the ENC *isn't* your #1 concern, enchanters definitely still have roles to fill without charming-- crowd control being the chief among them. My same ENC buddy will sometimes just use an animation (and make sure to get hit once) if we simply feel like having a more laid-back EXP grind without the risk of breaks. Slower exp? Yes. But also very safe. Classic risk vs reward!

[Legidias]

1 seb frog pet, hasted, out damages a whole 6 man melee group.

[1asdfasdf1]

FWIW On my enchanter I'm doing very long-running charisma studies of charm duration. I have a macro to /con the mob before charming, and /g or /say what my charisma value is. (Hardcoded in macro). Later, when parsing, I'll be able to say "1000 blue cons to Enchanter level L with Charisma C has charm duration of D."

[commongood]

FWIW On my enchanter I'm doing very long-running charisma studies of charm duration. I have a macro to /con the mob before charming, and /g or /say what my charisma value is. (Hardcoded in macro). Later, when parsing, I'll be able to say "1000 blue cons to Enchanter level L with Charisma C has charm duration of D."

Cool that you’re collecting data. A word on your method: mobs conning blue is sadly not a terribly useful metric. A mob one level below will con the same kind of blue as one there is three levels below you. That difference in level - from what I understand- will have a big impact on the chance of charm break at each tick.

I understand that establishing exact levels of mobs will be nigh on impossible if you plan to collect data constantly and so can see this method as decent but just be aware that your results will be influenced by mob level and you’re only data market will be that the mob is blue

[DMN]

Back in the day i was pretty good at not even getting hit by my charm breaks on most breaks.. You always sit about the same distance from the charmed pet and you can get into a rhythm of exactly predicting when to use your AoE stun. Outdoors and in some dungeons you can sit far enough to even get the mez off without a stun. The cleric can also be on the ball with the level 4 stun only has a 1.5 cast time.Cleric will almost always have pet targeted and should be able to pull the stun off in most instances before reaching the enchanter.

If you are lower level, I can see why you'd think charming isn't that great. it's pretty much pointless until the 30-40s and even the it's only so-so. It gets better with levels.

I'd recommend duoing with a necro or druid in places they can charm at the lower level ranges if you want to charm. insetad of healing your pets you just kill them off and exp is going to roll in a lot faster than cleric/enc duo

[Jauna]

What I see:


Charm breaks (as intended)
Healer blows 1/4 or more of their mana (hope they weren't OOM!) keeping enchanter alive while enchanter regains Charm.
Repeat


1.) go to the bathroom before even logging on your enchanter or get used to peeing in bottles
2.) You are not a "netflix and dps" character, you will have to remain high alert for the duration of your play session
3.) gatta be a quickdraw on tash/stun/recharm
4.) yeah sometimes the sun, moon and stars align to fuck you in the ass for charm break/bad pull/mez fading/resists at the same time
4.1) rune/zerk yourself(they stack). rune3 for general purpose, rune 4/5 for higher risk/raid stuff
5.) always be in the proper level range, be it the place you are exping in to your charm target. a level 38 enchanter in CoM is ganna have a bad time. A level 35+ enchanter in MM charming a dancer(level 25) wont be optimal when ghoulish anclites(31-33) are superior

Dont try and talk yourself out of charming and giving up one of the highest damage classes in the game because you had a bad day

[Rimitto]

4.) yeah sometimes the sun, moon and stars align to fuck you in the ass for charm break/bad pull/mez fading/resists at the same time

I don't think you're going to change his mind with that line of context. :rolleyes:
I will however agree that with all the constant BS that can go on, that 99% of the time whenever an enchanter dies it IS because of this very reason, ergo why I don't use the charm spell either... It's unreliable and only usable at lower levels during corpse runs. #UtilitySpell


5.) always be in the proper level range, be it the place you are exping in to your charm target. a level 38 enchanter in CoM is ganna have a bad time. A level 35+ enchanter in MM charming a dancer(level 25) wont be optimal when ghoulish anclites(31-33) are superior

Dont try and talk yourself out of charming and giving up one of the highest damage classes in the game because you had a bad day
your last point here struck a cord with me. I don't think level ranges are the most simple formula to work with on this. I've actually had some very interesting charms on yellow monsters that worked out great before, and some on green that ended horribly and me quitting for the day.

I don't think charm is entirely based on just levels/stats. I feel like there's a hidden stat people haven't discovered and some are just luckily stumbling into it, then claiming it as "the best thing ever" when it's coincidental benefits.

[Wallicker]

Is this a troll? Ever charmed a mermaid or icy servant in SG? The former double backstabs for 700 and quads in the 200s, the latter quads for nearly 300s has 55pt DS and has 20k hp.... cleric has to use two CHs on that bad boy! Either one will out DPS a pair of ToV heated rogues and has 5x as much HP. Well worth the risk if you have a competent enchanter and cleric! Power of charm scales exponentially with level. Starts being worthwhile around lvl 23-24 with osargen in HhK and familiars in MM in a group. Oh and beastly Torklar Battlemaster in unrest. Then there’s the 20k hp bloodmaw in GD lvl 20.

[yaateevoo]

Enchanter would add more DPS to the group than a nuker just from haste and c2. A charmed pet does about the DPS of 1.5 melee I would guess.

[Rimitto]

Starts being worthwhile around lvl 23-24 with osargen in HhK
What a coincidence, my enchanter just hit 24.
Perhaps I should run some tests to see what's better at leveling... your charm strats (which are inevitably going to get me killed)
or the "slow" road level grind with my brand new shiny bob level 24 animation.
This weekend should be quite fascinating. ;)

[Pringles]

Charm is quite bad when you get it due to it's formula and the much smaller difference of levels between you at level 12 and blue cons. Around 29 is where it really comes into it's own. Charms are typically the main DPS in a group so realistically if you want to forgo them you will not be as wanted for group play. Recommend watching a youtuber and seeing how other's handle it might give you better grasp on the strategy.

[Wallicker]

What a coincidence, my enchanter just hit 24.
Perhaps I should run some tests to see what's better at leveling... your charm strats (which are inevitably going to get me killed)
or the "slow" road level grind with my brand new shiny bob level 24 animation.
This weekend should be quite fascinating. ;)

By all means if you are soloing and aren’t comfortable charm killing then wait a few levels. In a group you’ll have to root or something to get hit before “Bob” starts hitting for 25 damage, but hey man you do you not everyone has the same skill level. Make sure to keep charmed pet tashed and /pet guard a safe distance from you. If you can get Malo/snare from a shaman/mage/Druid/ranger will further mitigate risk.

[Rimitto]

By all means if you are soloing and aren’t comfortable charm killing then wait a few levels. In a group you’ll have to root or something to get hit before “Bob” starts hitting for 25 damage, but hey man you do you not everyone has the same skill level. Make sure to keep charmed pet tashed and /pet guard a safe distance from you. If you can get Malo/snare from a shaman/mage/Druid/ranger will further mitigate risk.

I've been using knives mostly. I'm a MMA - Mixed Magical Arts.
Throwing is highly effective at dragging (1) monster to you to hit you. Take 3 steps back.
Since I maxed out throwing early on, i can do a consistent 7-10 damage per throw while my minion triple hits for about 25 and my DoTs do an additional 12 orso.
Around 50% used to be my cutoff point of nuking and 40% if I wanted the flee bonus.
That's more or less the strategy I've been using so far, it's fairly consistent and let's me know early on if I'm killing something that is too beefy. Having that extra 7 seconds to do anything is so vital when you're an enchanter.

The charm strategy I was using was more or less the same as this except with a much larger MP loss due to recharming, roots, messes, and emergency nukes. Additionally it caused multiple deaths around the board.



I generally don't do groups, there are never groups in the areas I'm killing, and the areas that I'm not killing are generally too high for my spells to even hit. It's a pretty funny conundrum when you think about it, because I wouldn't be able to really charm yellows and reds that effectively in the first place. :-)

Honestly though, since I just hit 24, it'll be interesting to see how my strategy changes because I believe my DoT spell is dropping off at this point and gone for about 5 levels until it upgrades to a better one.. but my new damage spell and pet should cover, so I may have to tank a bit more.

[Zipity]

Should never be charming reds yellows or even really whites. Roflmao man your last post gave me a good laugh.

[Rimitto]

Should never be charming reds yellows or even really whites. Roflmao man your last post gave me a good laugh.

kinda like charm being on page 45 of my spellbook gives me a good laugh :D

[Hibbs]

LOL this post.

Like Wall said... we had a few people in SG the other day and I was out of group solo and was taking XP from a group with Rogue, Monk, and a few others. You CANT beat pet damage.

[Pringles]

Any similarly leveled melee should out dps animations.

[Rimitto]

LOL this post.

Like Wall said... we had a few people in SG the other day and I was out of group solo and was taking XP from a group with Rogue, Monk, and a few others. You CANT beat pet damage.

"Level of Monsters: 50-60+" :rolleyes:

[Baylan295]

https://imgur.com/gallery/lEApLF4

This is a copy of a parse against Tunare. I believe there were 6 pets, so the average dps per pet was around 167. That’s about twice the best rogue we had on that Tunare (though we admittedly don’t have a bunch of NToV weapons on that raid.

[Wallicker]

I wonder what the DPS of osargen in HHK is vs a twinkled lvl 24 rogue, probably similar.

[Arvan]

Yeah you want to always charm, make ls the group waaay more efficient.

[branamil]

Op is only level 24 and y'all giving level 60 answers. Charm sucks at that level because you don't have any gear and no clarity.

[Rimitto]

Op is only level 24 and y'all giving level 60 answers. Charm sucks at that level because you don't have any gear and no clarity.

naw that's me that's level 24, OP never said his level but according to his profile he is a:
"Biography
Level 17 fire beetle"

(charm sucks even worse at that level, ouch) :eek:

[Wallicker]

I’m leveling an enchanter naked to level 24 next week and gonna stream me throwing down the dps in hhk with osargen.

[Wallicker]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Osargen

Little better than “Bob” and he backstabs

[Bardp1999]

The key to Osargen is making sure he is in full visable Bronze armor. Twink the boy

[Rimitto]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Osargen

Little better than “Bob” and he backstabs

Does he also tank? :)
Cause generally enchanters tend to be less than amazing meat sacks. :rolleyes:

I’m leveling an enchanter naked to level 24 next week and gonna stream me throwing down the dps in hhk with osargen.

oh I'll be streaming my adventures TONIGHT. Don't worry, I got ya covered. Just fyi, I accept donations of platinum for every death I incur for your broken strategies :-)

[Wallicker]

Like I said not all players have the same skill level. Just because you die in a situation doesn’t mean I would. But man I’ll subscribe just to see you throwing knives as an enchanter

[Rimitto]

Like I said not all players have the same skill level. Just because you die in a situation doesn’t mean I would. But man I’ll subscribe just to see you throwing knives as an enchanter

why does everyone hate knives so much, it's a literal free action that we get and it has almost no downsides other than "maybe" accidentally pinging something that jumps out in front of you. :confused:
(which has happened once before in rivervale, live die and learn)

Knives also have a crazy small amount of aggro on them. Why are people so shocked over this amazing asset?

[Wallicker]

I Quit I’ve decided you are officially either slow or a one of the most experienced trolls on this forum. Congrats for roping me in.

[kjs86z]

OP, you're just new. I had never played EQ before P99, rolled enchanter as first character, and used an animation into my 30s because I felt the same way as you.

Once you get some more experience under your belt you'll look back at this thread and laugh at how naive you once were.

Keep practicing charming, its essentially a requirement of all enchanters.

[Wallicker]

I think another thing that might help you tremendously is an instant cool down item like a rod of insidious glamour. Hit me up in game if you need help practicing charming but I still think you live under a bridge.

[Rimitto]

I think another thing that might help you tremendously is an instant cool down item like a rod of insidious glamour. Hit me up in game if you need help practicing charming but I still think you live under a bridge.

I like how my charm broke on monsters within less than 30 seconds to a minute last night.... on green enemies... that I could have 1-2 shotted with a nuke... that also gave no experience :rolleyes:
I was even using my upgraded charm "Beguile" too.... nearly ran me out of MP on something that was supposed to be a free kill :rolleyes:
..because charm clearly has no flaws at all right? :rolleyes:
The :rolleyes: Ultimate :rolleyes: End :rolleyes: All :rolleyes: Spell :rolleyes: That :rolleyes: Nothing :rolleyes: Beats

It may have use at level 50-60 but at mid 20's it's still just bad.
OP if you read this thread, you do you. I can completely understand why you wouldn't go charm strats and I agree with your original statement, don't be another corpse.

@wallclicker what area/monster drops the rod of insidious glamour? I'll go hunt it down ;-)
It'll be easy right? :-D

[DMN]

I think the incandescent wand would be much more valuable. Since the low level charms cast fast you can handle all your charm breaks for zero mana outside of the charm cost and for stuns between nukes when finishing off a charmed mob.

[stebbins99]

Rimitto, please do not be discouraged by these forum posts and/or your progress with charming so far. I also have an ENC buddy that used an animation "more than most" up into his 30s.

Like many have said, you'll eventually get to a point wherein charming is simply too good to pass-up. Having more +CHA gear and experience with how to handle charm breaks makes things much easier. Grouping with friends and/or people that "have your back" during charm breaks is also a huge help.

I will admit that you may be relegated to soloing, at least in certain zones/areas, until you're willing, comfortable, and/or geared-enough to charm. Good luck!

[Crawdad]

Cha gear is some of the cheapest gear out there. You can spend ~3-4k and be set until 60. There are tons of slots you can fill with great Cha gear for 50-100p that you'll use for a very, very long time.

12-60 nothing comes close to the Dps of charming. Start early so you can get good and you'll never want for groups/partners. You're going to die a lot at first, and its fine. Bind nearby, keep rune/berserk up and most importantly pay attention. There is zero reason to not charm as an enchanter except being bad. Don't be bad, be good.

[Varren]

Theres also no reason to use a higher level charm spell if the lower one will land. It just uses more mana.

[Zipity]

Are you casting tash before you charm?

[1asdfasdf1]

You guys are talking about nothing but DPS and keeping your distance from mobs. Where are you fighting? Outdoors 24/7? Hardly a compelling argument. Max DPS means nothing when it it murders the entire group and causes a 90 minute CR in Guk. That's what I see: 90 minute CRs and clerics OOM from helping reroot and stun and keep the enchanter alive.

You guys are making the fallacy of remembering the highs (wow the hasted siren backstabbed for 80,000!) and forgetting the lows (oh shit the siren backstabbed us all for 80,000).

[Baylan295]

You guys are talking about nothing but DPS and keeping your distance from mobs. Where are you fighting? Outdoors 24/7? Hardly a compelling argument. Max DPS means nothing when it it murders the entire group and causes a 90 minute CR in Guk. That's what I see: 90 minute CRs and clerics OOM from helping reroot and stun and keep the enchanter alive.

You guys are making the fallacy of remembering the highs (wow the hasted siren backstabbed for 80,000!) and forgetting the lows (oh shit the siren backstabbed us all for 80,000).

Skillful play as an enchanter greatly reduces the risk of a nasty mob wiping the group. If you are concerned, there are a lot of things you can do to minimize risk. For example: have your pet snared or malo’d, find a less dangerous pet (either lower level or less DPS), or don’t fully kit out a pet. Oftentimes, people will approach me and say I should get a “better” pet. Yet, if the group has downtime in camp, there is no need or reason to increase the risk by increasing DPS. Similarly, if your heals are coming slow or not at all, you can always choose to calm and camp off a pet and it will go home.

[Varren]

You guys are talking about nothing but DPS and keeping your distance from mobs. Where are you fighting? Outdoors 24/7? Hardly a compelling argument. Max DPS means nothing when it it murders the entire group and causes a 90 minute CR in Guk. That's what I see: 90 minute CRs and clerics OOM from helping reroot and stun and keep the enchanter alive.

You guys are making the fallacy of remembering the highs (wow the hasted siren backstabbed for 80,000!) and forgetting the lows (oh shit the siren backstabbed us all for 80,000).

No, we are not. Pet dps is best, and it is manageable. You can keep a pet under control with your berserker+rune lines, stun and mez. Learn it and be good

[Rimitto]

Cha gear is some of the cheapest gear out there. You can spend ~3-4k and be set until 60. There are tons of slots you can fill with great Cha gear for 50-100p that you'll use for a very, very long time.

12-60 nothing comes close to the Dps of charming. Start early so you can get good and you'll never want for groups/partners. You're going to die a lot at first, and its fine. Bind nearby, keep rune/berserk up and most importantly pay attention. There is zero reason to not charm as an enchanter except being bad. Don't be bad, be good.

at level 12... having 3-4k plat... please do go on :rolleyes:

"There is zero reason to not charm as an enchanter except being bad." Sorry I can't read the rest of your post, I'm too busy regenerating my mana because it broke 15 seconds after you said that and had to put it right back up, wasting a good 1/4th my mana on something that should have taken 8% tops. :rolleyes:

That's my experience up until level 26 now, at the very least.
I understand your point though, you've thoroughly meta-game'd the game into a speedrun at this point so anything less than "MOB TARGET X 26:30 4 minutes time save" is a waste to you and you don't see any value or joy in anything else including yourself, except getting that charm down to "be good". But here's my counter-argument... What does a full strength enchanter look like :-)
No response? How about a full dexterity enchanter?

If you can't even tell the difference between AC mattering as far as tanking then you shouldn't really argue the metagame of early level enchanters, especially since at level 12 you pretty much use half your mp to even use charm, and that's without any of the clarity line, Bwuahahahaa.
But let's be honest, you'd be lost without your twinkles.


As far as ACTUAL DPS goes... I've noticed that at my current level, a good summoned pet (yes there's a difference) easily out damages the monsters in the area that I've been fighting. Not to mention that he's also a solid tank which saves me a ton of time from A) dying and B) binding wounds. Heck gained 2 levels yesterday without a single quest completion #TeamMurder
At this point, my biggest draw to getting exp is... everyone's guessed it... MP Regeneration. Still stuck on breeze, no clarity, like a normal non-twinkled person.



@asdfgasdfg I couldn't agree more with the CR thing. Once you die you're instantly losing exp up to and even beyond getting your corpse back. It's an unneeded risk for a little reward UNLESS you're in a group. That being said.. I did group with some people in unrest before and still died while using charm strats several times... made a good -3 blue bubbles for a good 40 minutes of effort. That's not progress.

[Wallicker]

Charm break -> stun(20mana) -> mez(20mana) -> tash(10 mana) -> recharm(70mana).
That’s 120mana. If your parking your pet far away you can mez before it gets to you saving 20 mana. If it breaks early it should already be tashed saving additional 10 mana and if you have someone snare it you can just tash+recharm. So 80 to 120 mana if a pet breaks. At lvl 26 with breeze, you regain around 15 mana per tic sitting so you will recover that mana in less than one minute... hardly some exhaustive feat that can’t be pulled off you just need to practice.

[mumpz]

@OP

Have you tried charming osagren in hhk goblin groups? He may change your mind.

But yeah, lower level charming is just OK. For soloing I think its still more efficient, but I get your point groups. Solo charming killing is awesome when you can get xp for two mobs.

[commongood]

I started charming in the mid-20s with Osargen while grouped in Goblins. Just park him a bit away from the group and charm breaks shouldn't wreck you too hard. If you get a break at the same time the ill-disciplined puller brought in all of raider room and your healer is lom then yes, you will likely die. If charm breaks when a single mob is on your tank or even two mobs then you will likely survive if you cast your color-stun and then mez Osargen. Can either re-charm then and there or wait a bit and re-mez while getting things under control with the mobs in camp.

I started charm-soloing at around level 31-33 at the Yeti camp in DL. It was pretty hard core until around lvl 34-35 and from there it was smooth sailing and amazing exp until I moved to goblins in Loio at around lvl 42-43. Stayed there until lvl 49. This was the "coming of age" camp for my charm-soloing "skills". Have never looked back. Whenever I have gone against my better judgment and grouped the exp have been terrible in comparison. And that's including the odd CR. Oh and yeah if you are careful and remain somewhat concentrated you will die very rarely while soloing for exp. I have small kids and so have just adopted the doctrin of always having gate memmed while exp'ing and being "better safe than sorry" in case I suddenly have to afk.

[kjs86z]

You guys are talking about nothing but DPS and keeping your distance from mobs. Where are you fighting? Outdoors 24/7? Hardly a compelling argument. Max DPS means nothing when it it murders the entire group and causes a 90 minute CR in Guk. That's what I see: 90 minute CRs and clerics OOM from helping reroot and stun and keep the enchanter alive.

You guys are making the fallacy of remembering the highs (wow the hasted siren backstabbed for 80,000!) and forgetting the lows (oh shit the siren backstabbed us all for 80,000).

You're just proving your ignorance.

I have hundreds, if not thousands of hours having active charm pets....from solo, groups of all sizes, and raids.

I spent the vast majority of 50-60 with a RL cleric friend. He very rarely ever dropped below 50% mana. Said it was the easiest / fastest 50-60 char he'd ever leveled. Did we die sometimes? Of course, especially before Bedlam and where we were learning new zones / camps. You just have to CR and keep going. For those that you feel are too risky, plenty of rogues around that would be more than happy to drag for a nice tip.

You and the OP just need practice. It'll get easier with levels and by your mid 30s you'll be cruising.

[Tuurin]

The worst thing about charming is that it spoils you for any other form of leveling. On my second enchanter, I leveled 100% charming- never had a single group and he's now L55. Can earn faster exp on that char at 55 than I can on my rogue at 48 in a full group chain-pulling.

[1asdfasdf1]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

[Torik]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

Break checks mostly matter on level, which is why you should NEVER charm a mob more than 85% of your level (for exp purposes). I think MR is secondary to level, and charisma is last.

Level ~40+ is when mob DPS really starts getting good, which is why charm killing becomes amazing around then.

As for the person complaining that they can't afford any cheap CHA gear, look for a Crude Stein (100pp), +7 CHA bracers (50pp each), Opalline Earrings (50pp each), Gypsy Medallion (100pp). For 400pp that gets you +48 CHA.

For another 600pp you can get the Rod of Insidious Glamour (+12 CHA and a GCD clicky).

For another ~1k you can get a Siryn Hair Hood (+13 CHA).

So for 2k you will have +73 CHA.

[Tuurin]

Protip- if you have Illusion: Dark Elf, you can run into Oggok and buy a Crude Stein off the merchants there for like 10p (or free if someone farming guards lets you loot a rotting one). People often farm guards and vendor the steins.

[Rimitto]

@OP

Have you tried charming osagren in hhk goblin groups? He may change your mind.

But yeah, lower level charming is just OK. For soloing I think its still more efficient, but I get your point groups. Solo charming killing is awesome when you can get xp for two mobs.

have YOU been to hhk goblins lately? last 7 times I've been there the entire area has been perma-camped by various guilds and alts of people that only know that zone :)

I found a much faster source of solo/party exp in najena. Especially since it plays to my benefits as an enchanter who is capable of using mezz, mesmerization, root, and various other forms of control abilities that only my class gets. :rolleyes:
Almost like that place was designed to benefit enchanters or something. Go Figure. :rolleyes:

don't get me wrong, if this was my 5th alt twinkled enchanter and I was part of some weird homogenous guild like azure dream or aftermath or that kittens guild, I probably would be all over those goblins... with the same 9 other people that are camping there are this very second (I haven't even logged in today but I still know they're sitting right there.)


Charm(60 mana) break -> stun(20mana) -> mez(20mana) -> tash(10 mana) -> recharm(60mana) break.


fixed it for ya ;-)
btw, after getting a new robe, and mask recently, I managed to get about 100 extra mana points... so I'm up to 800 mana now. this failure of a charm strategy only drains me to 1/8th my mana instead of 1/6th :D

[Rimitto]

As for the person complaining that they can't afford any cheap CHA gear, look for a Crude Stein (100pp), +7 CHA bracers (50pp each), Opalline Earrings (50pp each), Gypsy Medallion (100pp). For 400pp that gets you +48 CHA.

For another 600pp you can get the Rod of Insidious Glamour (+12 CHA and a GCD clicky).

For another ~1k you can get a Siryn Hair Hood (+13 CHA).

So for 2k you will have +73 CHA.
yeah totally cheap and easy for a twinkled character.
not like I'm using that money for tradeskills, spells, spell ingredients, ports, or any form of actual game related quests or expenditures.

Offhand, what, pray tell, is your idea of the normal amount of plat a level 12 enchanter should have, is?
I'll give you a hint... it's not 4k... I'll give you another hint... it's not 400pp either :-)

At level 24 (specifically) I've only really just started getting (What I consider) good money. Managed to save up a crap ton from repeat farming bandit sashes to get up to 24 because 23 is a horrible level for enchanters. That combined with all the slow loot I've been getting and storing, I managed to hit my first thousand recently (level 25) and bought a new robe with that money... still have a bit left but haven't touched any of my tradeskills which require attention for a couple levels. Brownie parts alone is going to set me back a good 400-600 plat. jewelrycrafting jump from silver to plat is just... ballbustingly hard on the money.... and trying to get research past 20 is also taking it's toll. That's not including all the new spells I bought recently which cost a pretty penny.. and on top of all that, you're recommending that I spend money I don't have in order to use a setup that has been proven to kill me multiple times with an armor set that I cannot afford simply to "git gud".
Hello Kettle, it's pot here, You're black!!!

(just a side note, almost all of my skills/tradeskills are 130-150 range, aside from jewelcrafting and research)
just an additional note... even with all my current gear I've got a good 148 cha (with buffs up), so I personally don't think my cha is anything to sneeze at, and yet shit still breaks within 1 minute time... spending 1/8th my MP on a minion that is going to do half as much as an animation is quite literally, stupid. Not to mention that I need mana for my nukes as well... getting half exp due to minion kills just doesn't sit kosher with me. You're seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses. :rolleyes:


Edit: I'm actually starting to wonder if half of these people even play this game or if they're all just elaborate trolls that play on live/mangler. :rolleyes:

[Torik]

yeah totally cheap and easy for a twinkled character.
not like I'm using that money for tradeskills, spells, spell ingredients, ports, or any form of actual game related quests or expenditures.

Offhand, what, pray tell, is your idea of the normal amount of plat a level 12 enchanter should have, is?
I'll give you a hint... it's not 4k... I'll give you another hint... it's not 400pp either :-)

At level 24 (specifically) I've only really just started getting (What I consider) good money. Managed to save up a crap ton from repeat farming bandit sashes to get up to 24 because 23 is a horrible level for enchanters. That combined with all the slow loot I've been getting and storing, I managed to hit my first thousand recently (level 25) and bought a new robe with that money... still have a bit left but haven't touched any of my tradeskills which require attention for a couple levels. Brownie parts alone is going to set me back a good 400-600 plat. jewelrycrafting jump from silver to plat is just... ballbustingly hard on the money.... and trying to get research past 20 is also taking it's toll. That's not including all the new spells I bought recently which cost a pretty penny.. and on top of all that, you're recommending that I spend money I don't have in order to use a setup that has been proven to kill me multiple times with an armor set that I cannot afford simply to "git gud".
Hello Kettle, it's pot here, You're black!!!

(just a side note, almost all of my skills/tradeskills are 130-150 range, aside from jewelcrafting and research)
just an additional note... even with all my current gear I've got a good 148 cha (with buffs up), so I personally don't think my cha is anything to sneeze at, and yet shit still breaks within 1 minute time... spending 1/8th my MP on a minion that is going to do half as much as an animation is quite literally, stupid. Not to mention that I need mana for my nukes as well... getting half exp due to minion kills just doesn't sit kosher with me. You're seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses. :rolleyes:


Edit: I'm actually starting to wonder if half of these people even play this game or if they're all just elaborate trolls that play on live/mangler. :rolleyes:

My advice: Sell your ~1k robe. Buy the Rod + 400pp in CHA items I recommended. Stop focusing on tradeskills (except research) until you are 50+ and can make 500pp an hour. IMO, if you're not charming, you should play another class that better suits your playstyle, because once you are 40+ charming is pretty much your only option (unless you just wanna be a buff bot). 148 CHA is a little low.. A charming enchanter should have at least 200 CHA (buffed). I hope this helps!

Edit: You may have mentioned this already, but what level are the mobs you are charming as a level 25 enc? I would not try to charm anything higher than level 21. Also, are you tashing them before you charm them?

Edit 2: There are also 7 CHA / 5 DEX rings you can get for 150pp each, once you get the Rod and 400pp in gear I mentioned.

[Crawdad]

at level 12... having 3-4k plat... please do go on :rolleyes:
As I said, there are tons of slots you can fill for 50-100p and use until 60. No reason you can't fill out slots as you go, or get several cheap pieces all at once. Here is a Magelo for a geared Enchanter that comes right out at 4k (http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:CheapGear). There are 15 slots (out of 20) that are less than 200p (an afternoon killing bandits or wisps). The only thing that needs replaced are the rings to velium fire wedding rings, otherwise you can take this gear to 60. Cheap McChanty actually has too much Cha really, so feel free to mix-and-match as you'd like.


That's my experience up until level 26 now, at the very least.
I understand your point though, you've thoroughly meta-game'd the game into a speedrun at this point so anything less than "MOB TARGET X 26:30 4 minutes time save" is a waste to you and you don't see any value or joy in anything else including yourself, except getting that charm down to "be good". But here's my counter-argument... What does a full strength enchanter look like :-)
No response? How about a full dexterity enchanter?

I think this rant is particularly funny, as you'll be hard pressed to find a less min/max'er than me (except for anything Iksar related). You seem rather trolly, but I think there's a lot of good information that will come out of this thread for those who don't take suggestions as a personal attack. What does a full Str/Dex enchanter look like? Rather poor while leveling. Cha has a painfully obvious effect on charm.


If you can't even tell the difference between AC mattering as far as tanking then you shouldn't really argue the metagame of early level enchanters, especially since at level 12 you pretty much use half your mp to even use charm, and that's without any of the clarity line, Bwuahahahaa.
But let's be honest, you'd be lost without your twinkles.
AC has been fixed here a long time and is very obvious in parses. Here is a link (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320936) showing its effectiveness for enchanters. Twinking is a big part of this game to some people, and others prefer to go at it naked. My enchanter enjoyed starting life with a dragoon dirk and crude stein for certain :) You can most certainly start charming at 12 while mostly naked. The minotaurs in Steamfont are my favorite place as a lowbie enchanter, as its two sets of two near a zoneline. I usually melee it up with the old animation until 14, though.


@asdfgasdfg I couldn't agree more with the CR thing. Once you die you're instantly losing exp up to and even beyond getting your corpse back. It's an unneeded risk for a little reward UNLESS you're in a group. That being said.. I did group with some people in unrest before and still died while using charm strats several times... made a good -3 blue bubbles for a good 40 minutes of effort. That's not progress.
Charming is the fastest way to level, for any class that can do it. You can look here, or ask a high level enchanter in-game, and find a wealth of information about it and its benefits/challenges. But I get the feeling from this and other comments that you aren't really here for anything other than trolling :confused:

yeah totally cheap and easy for a twinkled character.
not like I'm using that money for tradeskills, spells, spell ingredients, ports, or any form of actual game related quests or expenditures.

Offhand, what, pray tell, is your idea of the normal amount of plat a level 12 enchanter should have, is?
I'll give you a hint... it's not 4k... I'll give you another hint... it's not 400pp either :-)
Tradeskills and ports are plat sinks. There's no reason to spend your money on either at low levels. You can't throw a stone without hitting a leveling/plat guide for p99. Enchanters have some of the easiest time earning money while leveling as well. It is very easy to have 2k by the mid-20s.

[commongood]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

The way I see it, it is a combination of factors but chief among them is the size of your mana pool relative to the spells you are casting and your lack of mana regen through clarity and clarity II on lower levels.

Charms are relatively mana intense spells. So when you invariably get bad luck with breaks you are having to spend a lot of your limited mana ressources recharming. Before level 29 you won't have clarity and that means cumbresome regaining of mana. So you will have a harder time establishing a smooth flow of exp while charm-soloing for that reason.

Then there's something many might not factor in which is that the spells you use the most when charm soloing are your mez, tash, root, charm, nuke and stun (color line). Of those you will be using your level 4 mez until you ding 60. Level 4 mez costs 20 mana. The higher level you get, the lower percent of your total mana pool 20 mana becomes. The same can be said for your root. While I eventually switched to Paralyzing Earth and then Fetter I used my level 8 root until level 49. Again, same logic, the 30 mana becomes relatively less by each level you gain as your mana pool increases.

Lastly I would just like to say that these issues with mana pool size can be exacerbated if you aren't making effecient choices:

- Don't automatically just use your highest level charm. A higher level charm does not have a better chance at not getting resisted and does not have a better chance at lasting longer. It is solely a question of whether the mob you are trying to charm will be immune to your spell or not. Look it up. For instance your level 24 charm - Beguile - works up to level 37 mobs. You get a new charm - Cajoling Whispers - at level 39. Once you ding 39 and scribe CW you should really not be using it yet. Another way to put it is to say you shouldn't be charming something that is only 1 or 2 levels below you. At level 39 you should probably be charming level 31-35 mobs. And so Beguile is fine to use for at least a few more levels. Probably quite a few.

- Don't automatically use your highest level nuke. If you break charm and one mob is at 9% and the other at 1% you might want your highest level nuke to one-shot the 9% mob but you should be memming Chaos Flux or whatever to finish the 1% mob

[DromalPhrenia]

Another reason charm becomes more powerful over time is that the gap between mob HP/DPS and player HP/DPS really widens as you level. At low levels, a charmed pet isn't a massive DPS increase, you (and your group, if you are grouping) have less tools to deal with charm breaks, you have less mana regen and your spells cost more mana relative to your mana pool. See the post above mine for more information on that. At later levels, a charmed pet (especially a hasted DW charmed pet) is an absolute monster, far superior to your animation, you (and other classes) have ways to deal with your charm breaks, etc.

At low levels, your charmed pets won't be significantly better than your summoned pet for tankiness or DPS. But they come with two advantages:
1. For solo play, you can break charm when the mobs are at low health and kill them both for 2 full exp kills, whereas a summoned pet would only net you 1 kill and would take 1/2 the exp if your pet outdamages you.
2. For group play, your charmed pet follows orders. Your summoned pet does not. This was a pretty funny troll by Verant, because your powers of crowd control can get messed up by an unruly pet, and your summoned pet doesn't listen to a thing you say. Also, since they don't listen, you can't make them attack unless you or the pet are hit by a mob.

Playing an enchanter gets pretty chaotic, which is funny since the whole point of the class is reducing the chaos of fighting mobs to make things as streamlined and efficient as possible. You'll be buffing every group member (except bards) with brain buffs and/or haste, crowd controlling with mez and roots, interrupting casters with mez and stuns, slowing every mob... and with charm, you can also do massive DPS and if you aren't grouped with melee, great tanking (mobs at later levels have bonkers hitpoints). The only thing you can't do is heal :( You can also pull due to the calm line of spells, although due to your crowd control it often won't be an issue if someone overpulls (until you start running into magic immune mobs and the like, but those will resist calm anyway)

[Rimitto]

My advice: Sell your ~1k robe. Buy the Rod + 400pp in CHA items I recommended. Stop focusing on tradeskills (except research) until you are 50+ and can make 500pp an hour. IMO, if you're not charming, you should play another class that better suits your playstyle, because once you are 40+ charming is pretty much your only option (unless you just wanna be a buff bot). 148 CHA is a little low.. A charming enchanter should have at least 200 CHA (buffed). I hope this helps!

Edit: You may have mentioned this already, but what level are the mobs you are charming as a level 25 enc? I would not try to charm anything higher than level 21. Also, are you tashing them before you charm them?

Edit 2: There are also 7 CHA / 5 DEX rings you can get for 150pp each, once you get the Rod and 400pp in gear I mentioned.
Nah I think I'll just stick with enchanter because it plays just like another class I used to play in another game... that is to say, it's an area control/stun class. Please understand that I have no intention of ignoring the most useful spells in this class, so things like charm are 3rd rate to me, since they are a 1-trick pony with a broken leg. I've already got the basics of taking 5-6 groups of monsters that range from green-blue solo down with the last dungeon, so the skill tree/mana affordance is definitely starting to open up to me.
(a small bit of information, in the game I played before this, the "enchanters" job was to intercept and interrupt the enemies spellcasting and skilluse and to prevent various other things from occurring such as summonings, specials, and critical hits. It was a true form intercept class, and as such, I plan to develop my metagame in this such fashion. Most of the spells are here and the system is similar, but everyone seems to just have a screwed up attitude about what enchanters should be.)

EDIT 1 response: I'm not, charm sucks. I've tried charming more times than mueller's had chances to "take down trump". Ironically, the best charm I ever had was on a yellow orc in oasis a good amount of levels ago. I've been trying to make it functional on whites, greens, and blues since then but... all of them just don't work. :rolleyes:
As far as levels, I'm not pitiful enough yet to go look up the individual monster levels.
I've been going by the game's general standard color coding system, but mostly sticking to whites and blues when I can. Greens if I have to, and yellows if I am confident or in a tight spot. I realize there are different layers/levels within the coloring system, but it's a good judge if I can take something..... usually... which matters way more to me.

EDIT 2 response: I'm not ignoring cha gear, but It will not be my biggest concern from now on, thanks for clearing this up for me.


I think this rant is particularly funny, as you'll be hard pressed to find a less min/max'er than me (except for anything Iksar related). You seem rather trolly, but I think there's a lot of good information that will come out of this thread for those who don't take suggestions as a personal attack. What does a full Str/Dex enchanter look like? Rather poor while leveling. Cha has a painfully obvious effect on charm.
you call yourself a mix/maxer, but you cannot even answer the question about a min/max when asked. I asked what they looked like, not what their charm looked like. but please, do go on. Surely the charmer class has plenty of interesting builds on it. :rolleyes:
(True story, I actually saw someone talking about an agility build last week, the numbers were very interesting, to say the least)


Twinking is a big part of this game to some people, and others prefer to go at it naked. My enchanter enjoyed starting life with a dragoon dirk and crude stein for certain :) You can most certainly start charming at 12 while mostly naked. The minotaurs in Steamfont are my favorite place as a lowbie enchanter, as its two sets of two near a zoneline. I usually melee it up with the old animation until 14, though.



Charming is the fastest way to level, for any class that can do it. You can look here, or ask a high level enchanter in-game, and find a wealth of information about it and its benefits/challenges. But I get the feeling from this and other comments that you aren't really here for anything other than trolling :confused:
funny I get the same feeling from you, that you're only trolling.
I really liked the part where you flatout bald faced admitted to twinking while having the audacity to say that it's "easier". I mean, let's be real, if I had 1 million dollars, it would probably be pretty easy to buy a high end gaming computer, rather than working up and saving money to buy one. Analogies eh man?
I get ya though, you're completely out of touch, don't worry, I get it. It happens. You even said yourself "Ask a High Level Enchanter". Why don't we just reverse the situation then? Dear high level enchanters, what weapons do the higher level animations use and what's their DPS ratio range between a bad summoned animation and a high summoned animation? Furthermore, What are the best combinations of spells that can be used to dismantle groups of 7 or more at a standstill standoff while maintaining a decent balance of MP -> damage ratio. These are the things I would like to know as I progress. :)
(I really hope the mesmerization line beefs up its time limit by 40)


Tradeskills and ports are plat sinks. There's no reason to spend your money on either at low levels. You can't throw a stone without hitting a leveling/plat guide for p99. Enchanters have some of the easiest time earning money while leveling as well. It is very easy to have 2k by the mid-20s.Funny, I guess I just skipped all that then... my highest earnings have been 1.6k which I spent on a stupid looking robe, spells, and various other things. Most of that has been new money too from the horrible grind from 22-24. Oh speaking of that, bandit sashes are not going to be viable in the next update. That's one thing I've noticed is that every couple of levels when animations hit 3 daggers, they become horribly outdated... yet once they make that jump they becoming incredibly strong. I guess you wouldn't know of that though, you never use them.

[snyder43]

I give you a lot of credit for taking the path less traveled. If you ever start streaming (or Youtubing), let me know and I'll be glad to tune in.

[commongood]

As long as you’re having fun with the game Rimitto. That’s all that really matters

[mumpz]

honestly cant imagine playing ench without charm sounds boring

[derblott]

What sort of personality struggles with a game ("horrible grind" from 22-24? really?), comes to a forum to post for help, then shits all over the advice he gets. Astounding!

:confused:

[Crawdad]

funny I get the same feeling from you, that you're only trolling.
I really liked the part where you flatout bald faced admitted to twinking while having the audacity to say that it's "easier". I mean, let's be real, if I had 1 million dollars, it would probably be pretty easy to buy a high end gaming computer, rather than working up and saving money to buy one. Analogies eh man?

Twinking is fine, not twinking is fine. A dragoon dirk is ~50p and a crude stein is ~10p. Piecemeal your gear as you can afford it (whatever type of gear you want).

I get ya though, you're completely out of touch, don't worry, I get it. It happens. You even said yourself "Ask a High Level Enchanter". Why don't we just reverse the situation then? Dear high level enchanters, what weapons do the higher level animations use and what's their DPS ratio range between a bad summoned animation and a high summoned animation? Furthermore, What are the best combinations of spells that can be used to dismantle groups of 7 or more at a standstill standoff while maintaining a decent balance of MP -> damage ratio. These are the things I would like to know as I progress. :)
(I really hope the mesmerization line beefs up its time limit by 40)

Animations don't spawn with gear, their graphics just change depending on level. Pets scale pretty well to mobs until ~20 and the disparity only gets worse as you get higher level. If you want to give me an example of a large camp I'd tell you how I'd do it, but basically make use of lull (another reason to have high Cha), charm and root. Use your PB stuns and mez if needed and use your lowest level root/mez. GINA helps if you get bogged down trying to keep time. You almost always want to use your lowest level mez, root and PB stun (though you want multiple PB stuns mem'd when you're able).

Funny, I guess I just skipped all that then... my highest earnings have been 1.6k which I spent on a stupid looking robe, spells, and various other things. Most of that has been new money too from the horrible grind from 22-24. Oh speaking of that, bandit sashes are not going to be viable in the next update. That's one thing I've noticed is that every couple of levels when animations hit 3 daggers, they become horribly outdated... yet once they make that jump they becoming incredibly strong. I guess you wouldn't know of that though, you never use them.
Here's my low level plat routine:

1-5 Qeynos newbie yard
5-10 Qeynos hills Rabid animals, gnolls
11-16 Eruds, NK, Qeynos hills Wisps
16-19 Bandits in WK, Lfay
19-25 Paineel guards

I've leveled several characters (both twinked and untwinked) this route and had ~2k in the bank in the early 20s. Animations have a use otherwise Zumaik's Animation wouldn't cost 5k. That doesn't mean it fulfills the same purpose as charming.

I'm a big proponent of charming for any class that can do it. You definitely don't Have to do it, and I often take breaks on my necro and druid to level other ways. Play however you want, but be aware that no one has ever seen an Enchanter leveling with a summoned pet and thought "That guy knows what he's doing." Being good at charming will make you a desirable member of a group and get you invites for a long time. I've seen many groups smack-talk lazy enchanters, because no other class makes a good group amazing like an Enchanter who knows what he's doing (charming, lulling, CC'ing).

more times than mueller's had chances to "take down trump"
(True story, I actually saw someone talking about an agility build last week, the numbers were very interesting, to say the least)
:rolleyes:

[Torik]

148 CHA is a little low.. A charming enchanter should have at least 200 CHA (buffed). I hope this helps!

As Crawdad mentioned, if you really care about CC you're going to get you CHA up anyway so you can lull/calm mobs to decrease your chance of getting a crit resist. Even on my untwinked, level 57 cleric, I have a set of cheap CHA gear for lulling/calming when we have no enchanter around.

I thought I'd share an personal (and embarrassing) experience I had when at the Fe'Dhar camp in SS as a level 60 enchanter with 204 CHA (unbuffed) and 254 CHA (buffed).

I buffed up (254 CHA), tashed, and charmed a green-conning cube one night and started tearing through Fe'Dhars. I would get a charm break every 5 kills on average. One time I was able to kill 11 Fe'Dhars without a charm break, and another time I had 3 breaks on one mob, but overall I would make it through ~5 mobs before I got a break.

The next morning, I log in to find my same pet is still there with torch in hand. I tashed and charmed him, and started killing again. First mob: break. Second mob: break. Third, forth, fifth mobs: breaks on each one. At this point I was OOM and had to reset everything. I then noticed that I didn't have my CHA buff up!! I was fighting at 204 CHA and was getting a ton of charm breaks. That 50 CHA made a bigger difference than I could have ever imagined.

I can tell you that if going from 204 to 254 CHA makes a big difference, so will going from 148 to 200 CHA.

Now, I know what you're going to say: "Do you know what a level 12 (aren't you level 25 though?) enchanter can afford? I'll give you a hint... etc."

In response to that, I'll add that when I was leveling from 20-60, I had between 200 and 230 CHA (buffed) using all the cheap CHA gear I recommended; gear that you could afford if you spent your money and time more wisely. Also, the mobs at the Fe'Dhar camp have high MR compared to most mobs you'll encounter while leveling, so with 200 CHA (buffed) you should be able to go through one fight without getting a charm break most of the time.

I know nothing I say will change your mind. You are too stubborn to listen to the wisdom and experience from several people who have enchanters with thousands of hours logged. But maybe some other new enchanter will find this thread and learn from the rest of us.

[Thorondor]

I believe P99 has coded CHA differently than originally designed; to where 200CHA is essentially a baseline before charm stablilizes, and 250/255 shows substantial stability. I highly doubt they accurately replicated the original coding.

After all, they still have the resist rate adjustments way off from how they were originally with marquise loot-camps having resist rates jacked way up through the roof to where Tash AND Malo/malosini still doesn't do shit to bring them back down to the respectable rates that existed on live back in era.

[kjs86z]

GL Rimitto

You're in for a hard time. Your attitude sucks.

[Wallicker]

Been playing my chanter for two days now hit lvl 15, Duoed with a magician in unrest and guess what wearing literally only ONE piece of store bought gear from Qeynos. https://wiki.project1999.com/Silk_Evening_Tunic. I was happily charming tormented undead and death beetles all day killing. Zero deaths.

[wagorf]

at higher level charm is easier to manage because you have multiple stuns to use when charm breaks, and depending on which charm spell u use, you will have time to cast charm while the mob is stunned, and n top of that u have stuff like bedlam

i think 99.9% of the case u'll be able to stun ur pet urself and recharm instantly

fast cast short stun if u want to retash (stun mez tash charm), long cast long stun if you want to recharm immediately after, or short stun then long stun then instantly recharm if u need to buy time to cast the longer stun

[Wallicker]

Hey enchanter lvl 18 now was charming in the scryer camp at Guk today went from 16 to 18 Duoed with another enchanter, charm breaks weren’t bad just didn’t charm whites or yellows. Again zero deaths. FYI all gear self found or looted so I’m at 300hp fully buffed and 134 cha to give you an idea.

[Wallicker]

Enchanter lvl 24 today had no issues charming osargen at 165 cha self buffed! He parses at triple the dps of lvl 24 summoned pet!

[Iumuno]

I've always charmed pretty much whenever I can but there are often cases when you just don't need the extra dps, due to lack of mobs or mobs dying so fast that the uptime ratio is very low, and then having a charmed pet is just extra risk.

[Wallicker]

If there are “often” cases that you don’t want/need extra DPS due to lack of mobs, my suggestion is find somewhere else to kill or hire a better puller...

[Iumuno]

If there are “often” cases that you don’t want/need extra DPS due to lack of mobs, my suggestion is find somewhere else to kill or hire a better puller...

Often was definitely too strong a word and I agree that it doesn't apply to xp group, unless you're a little too low for the content. An example of what I was thinking of would helping someone camp stuff with limited mobs around to kill

[applesauce25r624]

plebs

plebs for days

please uninstall

[Sacer]

When charming the mob level has a tremendous impact, charming a mob a couple level too high can really make it unsustainable especially at lower levels.

Let's take level 60 as an example, everything lvl 45+ will cons blue, and you can charm up to level 54. I can't stress it enough but charming a lvl 45 will be trivial while charming a lvl 54 will most likely end up with you dead. The golden rule for me leveling has always been to pet the lowest blue I could find in zone, then torch/haste it if I feel safe enough.

Another problem I see on a lot of low level enchanters they will stun/mezz/tash/charm at literally every pet break, you don't have much mana regen early on and it's clearly not substainable.
At 12 you can easily just open with charm, if pet break cast charm again, the low level charm spells are pretty fast casts you shouldn't take more than 1 or 2 round of melee. You can even take 0 damage if you park pet away from you then as the cast time on charm become longer and the damage taken on clothies ramp up you can start to include some stun/mezz.

Even at 60 if I know my tash is fresh when I get a pet break I will save some mana and just cast stun + allure skiping on aoe mezz + tash. Sure it's just 90 mana and it seems irrelevant at 60 but it adds up and taking that mindset you will definitely have lower downtimes.

[pickled_heretic]

charming is dangerous, but if you're not trying to push the limits of what your class can do, nobody is interested in your feedback.

[whyyoukickmydog]

What I see:


Charm breaks (as intended)
Healer blows 1/4 or more of their mana (hope they weren't OOM!) keeping enchanter alive while enchanter regains Charm.
Repeat


Would that combination of wasted mana from the cleric, and potentially wasted mana from the enchanter, not be better served just rolling up nuker?

Charming is "fun" but I also see the landscape littered with the corpses of enchanters.

General XP grinding charmed pet DPS is a waste and an unnecessary risk. Change my mind.

Charming at lower lvls can be like this, but at higher lvls it is absolutely worth it. The higher lvl charms last longer and the enchanter should have max CHA to make charm breaks less likely.

Wizards and nukers are just awful in high lvl groups. The mobs have too much hp, and their nukes draw too much aggro.

[Garnaak]

So, I have a lowbie Ench that has been practising charming on Oasis crocs. (All my chars are lowbies, highest lvl 22.) She does pretty well on any blue mobs, difficult if even con or just 1 level lower. But it works well otherwise.

The only issue I have is that I have been playing it wrong. I have been playing for my pet to win, as I would with my Necro who I have a longer history playing. I am going to have to try out the Charm a pet-Let a mob or mobs almost kill it-Break charm-Nuke or dot pet to finish off-Charm new pet for sacrifice. It will be different, but I can see how I could almost constantly kill this way.

FYI, her gear was all purchased by earned plat, as I have no high levels to twink.

Link to Magelo (https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Heriss_Osecsi)

[unleashedd]

enchanter dps as topic? assuming group enviro, the answer is two-fold: if melee heavy comp, my dps comes in form of haste. 4 hasted melees keep my mana drained pretty well. if caster heavy, charm or nothing (nukes and dots are garbage).

charm breaks make you nervous? roll a mage

[commongood]

If anyone wants a lesson in how to charm solo on an enchanter for exp I recommend watching Noman's (Tecmos) youtube videos. There are a ton and you will see how to do it near perfectly. Anyone in doubt as to whether it is correct or not to charm as an ENC should watch those videos.

I've solo'd a chanter, a necro and a shaman from 1-60 and they were all great experiences. Chanter was - by some distance - the fastest.

[Tecmos Deception]

If anyone wants a lesson in how to charm solo on an enchanter for exp I recommend watching Noman's (Tecmos) youtube videos. There are a ton and you will see how to do it near perfectly. Anyone in doubt as to whether it is correct or not to charm as an ENC should watch those videos.

I've solo'd a chanter, a necro and a shaman from 1-60 and they were all great experiences. Chanter was - by some distance - the fastest.

<3

Been bored with city of heroes lately. Might make a new chanter and start charm solo videos at 12 like I shoulda with Noman to demonstrate how well it can work without gear. Gotta tune up for green!

[Tethler]

<3

Been bored with city of heroes lately. Might make a new chanter and start charm solo videos at 12 like I shoulda with Noman to demonstrate how well it can work without gear. Gotta tune up for green!

Nice, I'd definitely watch. I saw a couple of your vids previously, but I should give them another watch. Now that my necro is 50s I really should transition to charming rather than fear kiting. While necro and ench obviously aren't the same, I'm sure I can employ similar tactics using roots and screaming terror for CCing and breaking camps.

[Wallicker]

I mean by lvl 28 it’s so easy to have 200+ cha off easily solo camped mobs all on Antonica. Really no excuse to not be charm killing unless you just prefer to level/kill slower or are super semi AFK.