State of the Magician

[Boarder981]

Hi all - I'm trying to get a friend to play P99. He doesn't want to play any class he played on live, and he's flat-out not interested in others. That leaves the following as potential options:

Wizard
Magician
Necromancer
Rogue

His first choice is Magician. Of course we'll try to group when possible, but he also wants the ability to solo when needed. I was under the impression that Magicians were strong soloers, but I heard their "solo XP was nerfed". Is this the case, and if so, how?

Keep in mind he'll be starting out fresh with a bit of help from me, but not twinked in any significant way. Will this be a viable path for him, or will it ultimately lead to frustration?

I appreciate any input and suggestions!

[bigjeff100]

Necro would be the far better option in my mind.. And will provide plenty of options for you guys to duo or whatever.. What class are you going to play? Necro has lots and lots of tools!

[stebbins99]

Magicians are a sweet duo partner! In terms of solo, magicians can definitely solo. That said, I believe the "nerf" you are referencing is this:

If a magician is fighting a mob and the magician's pet outdamages the player himself, the pet will "eat" half of the exp that the player otherwise would have earned.

As magicians' pets are the strongest in-game, this "half exp consideration" is more of an issue for mages when compared to necros and shamans. Ways to get around this:

1) Grouping - the entire "pet eats half exp thing" is not a factor as long as the magician is grouped with at least one other player. Makes them great for duos! Not a helpful suggestion for solo

2) Kill off pet / chain summoning - basically, you make sure that the magician pet dies *just-before* the mob dies, allowing the player to get 100% exp by finishing the mob with a nuke.

Though trickier at early levels, it becomes a viable strategy to "chain summon" pets at later levels as magicians' pets don't really cost more mana to summon as you get higher up-- summoning a lvl 29 pet costs just as much mana as a lvl 49 (only like 200 mana).

Thus, for harder solo battles, magicians can employ several pets over the course of one fight by timing out their summon spell with "pet go away" or the pet dying. For shorter battles, you can simply tell your pet to "go away" once the mob is low to nuke + finish for full exp.

Another nice factor is that the regeants for mage pets (ie the material item cost, like bone chips for necros) are quite inexpensive, especially as you get higher. This makes killing-off your pet in solo situations not quite as bad as it sounds.

Hopefully this insight helps! Also, even in worst case scenarios, killing off x2 mobs with the same pet (and pet eating half exp) is still an easier and faster solo route than many melee classes

[loramin]

For clarity, the "nerf" was very old in EQ's history. If your friend played on live past Luclin I highly doubt they'd even remember it as a "nerf"; they'd just remember pets always working that way.

[Boarder981]

That's how I remember it working as well.

@stebbins99 - very detailed response, thank you. I'm sure my friend will find this info very useful.

@bigjeff100 - not sure what I'm going to play yet. Maybe a Shaman, maybe an Enchanter. Hell, maybe even a Druid so we can explore more easily.

On that note, does Druid damage shield stack with Mage damage shield?

[kjs86z]

Necro is the best option for what the @OP listed.

[Snaggles]

Mages are fine but they don't any emergency parachutes. If your friend is willing to quad-kite a wiz that puts the Mage at the 3rd slot for xp soloing ability. Still a fine solo class (if all goes well) and a great group class.

I'd definitely go necro. The pet is just an extra dot rather than being the lifeguard keeping you from drowning.

[loramin]

On that note, does Druid damage shield stack with Mage damage shield?

Sadly, as http://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines#Damage_Shield shows, they don't (unless you count the Druid self-only DS line).

[Foxplay]

Necromancer is best option for OP's listed needs / wants

[Bardp1999]

Necro and Enchanter is an extremely potent combination for high level dungeon crawling. You boys can have a Charm hay day in HS, KC, Chardok, Sebelis, and many other areas of Norrath. Depending on the zone I like Necro/Enchanter better than Enchanter/Cleric.

Hell, the necromancers backstab pet isn't a terrible option vs a charm pet when you consider the "danger level" falls to 0 and you can keep him fully weaponized and hasted without fear of getting killed in 5 seconds.

[Wallicker]

Magician + shaman is also a very strong duo

[commongood]

Necromancer gets my vote too from reading th OP.

Necromancer has unparalleled quality of life compared to nearly every other class when leveling up.

In the tool box you get DA (Harmshield), Feign Death, several very potent solo strategies (fear kiting, root rotting and charming) and later in life you also get 93% rez (essence emeralds are about 200-300pp a pop) and self-only evacuation in Levant.

Oh, and you also get the best mana regen buff in the game.

The necromancer is also a pretty good duo partner though your mileage may very depending on what class you pair him with.

My first character on p99 was a necro so I'm biased. But I've never had quite the easy ride from 12-60 that I did on that char. FD alone is practically worth the price of admission ;)

[Pyrion]

Necro is more versatile and capable than magician for sure. But mage is more beginner friendly and usually more liked in groups. So both are a viable choice.

[commongood]

Necro is more versatile and capable than magician for sure. But mage is more beginner friendly and usually more liked in groups. So both are a viable choice.

How dare you suggest the world might be nuanced!

[DMN]

Necro is more versatile and capable than magician for sure. But mage is more beginner friendly and usually more liked in groups. So both are a viable choice.

Show me a group who wants a mage over a necro, and I'll show you group you don't want to be in. Don't even bring up CotH,Thanks.

[Wallicker]

Malo + pet does more dps + DS + coth

[Lorentik]

The necromancer has an easier life for some very basic reasons. Reliable CC being one of the biggest ones. Their life in dungeons is made much easier with the ability to root/rot when necessary. Earth pets are handy, but until later levels it's still difficult to be truly efficient. I started a Mage at the same time a friend started his Necromancer and there is simply no way for me to keep pace with his solo xp efficiency and speed. Necromancers will also have an advantage with group utility as a mana battery in my opinion. Mages may have the advantage for burst DPS, but if that were the requirement a rogue or Wizard would be better. Necromancers also have the benefit of being able to contribute to Crowd Control efforts much more reliably than Mages. The fact of the matter is summoning a levitation ring, a bag of fireworks, a bandolier of daggers, or loaf of bread isn't that valuable in higher lvl content.

With that said play the class you enjoy, and even with some of the frustrations of the Mage it's a class I have enjoyed every step of the way.

[Wallicker]

Of course most zones have undead to charm, so a phinny group?

[Troxx]

Mages may have the advantage for burst DPS, but if that were the requirement a rogue or Wizard would be better.

Lol no wizards would not be better. Mage sustained dps with trash gear (pet + nukes + DS) is comparable to a well geared rogue. Disco 1-2 camp over the weekend on my mage a max summon 57 earth pet alone was hovering 70-80dps consistently mob after mob. Mage burst is good and pretty efficient. For all those non-burst occasions you have a pet which puts out as much damage as a well geared monk. I’m looking forward to playing around with 59 air and 60 water pet.

Necro brings a whole hell of a lot of ‘other’ to the table and has a higher quality of life.
For raw damage output, however, my 59 necro can’t compete with my 58 mage unless charming. Then again my mage can’t rez, independently root, chain heal 125/tick, or do any other number of things.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why groups on p99 undervalue mage class potential to the degree they do. For raids I can understand as not having any lure style nukes and pets which may or may not survive the fight (plus pet push issues) definitely highlight flaws of the class ... but for xp content at all levels mages are powerhouses.

[DMN]

Lol no wizards would not be better. Mage sustained dps with trash gear (pet + nukes + DS) is comparable to a well geared rogue. Disco 1-2 camp over the weekend on my mage a max summon 57 earth pet alone was hovering 70-80dps consistently mob after mob. Mage burst is good and pretty efficient. For all those non-burst occasions you have a pet which puts out as much damage as a well geared monk. I’m looking forward to playing around with 59 air and 60 water pet.

Necro brings a whole hell of a lot of ‘other’ to the table and has a higher quality of life.
For raw damage output, however, my 59 necro can’t compete with my 58 mage unless charming. Then again my mage can’t rez, independently root, chain heal 125/tick, or do any other number of things.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why groups on p99 undervalue mage class potential to the degree they do. For raids I can understand as not having any lure style nukes and pets which may or may not survive the fight (plus pet push issues) definitely highlight flaws of the class ... but for xp content at all levels mages are powerhouses.


I think the problem is the server being over-saturated with so much higher end gear for twinking out melee-dps characters while mages gain nothing from it. Mages are explicitly a DPS class since they offer nothing else but can't tank, pull, sneak, interrupt spells, CC etc.

[aaezil]

I think he means nerf like as in its super easy on live maybe?

[Troxx]

I think the problem is the server being over-saturated with so much higher end gear for twinking out melee-dps characters while mages gain nothing from it. Mages are explicitly a DPS class since they offer nothing else but can't tank, pull, sneak, interrupt spells, CC etc.

Meh. If I liquidated all the gear on my mage at market value I’d probably get 5k. Even with garbage gear the only melee who have consistently outperformed my mage in the last few levels were 2 raid geared rogues and a raid geared monk. A 60 warrior with 2 NToV weapons got close but my personal nukes managed to consistently push me over the top by a pinch. Non velious (raid level) geared melee can’t keep up. The majority of that damage came from a max summon hasted 57 earth pet that quads all day long for 70 a pop. I’m curious how good the 60 water pet will be once I finally get around to finishing the push to 60.

If a mage always chain summons a pet to maximum level (I hate when I watch pet classes settle for the first one out of the box), consistently keeps haste up on said pet, remembers to refresh DS, and judiciously distributes nukes ... they really are top notch group tier dps. Coth, mod rods, and pet durability (emergency off tank) give them some limited situational utility.

Mages are amongst the first lfg people I seek out for dps filler where most people would rather scoop up a rogue/ranger/monk that puts out less. I will say though, that I usually end up annoying most that join because I can and will make sure they pull a max summon (or close to) before they settle into the comfy chair of the grind. If I’m inviting a mage it’s for the pewpew and there’s no excuse settling for a 54 water pet that hits for 48 vs 56, backstabs for 144 instead of 168, and is 4 levels lower when that pet makes up 80% or more of your potential dps, is cheap to recast, and really only takes an extra few minutes to set up once at the beginning of a long grind session.

The state of the magician summarized:

Solo:
-good solo xp potential (albeit annoying and tedious)

Group:
-cheap to gear out and still operate at near maximum potential
-absolutely stellar group dps (top tier, lagging only behind charm pet)
-limited group utility
-does lack reliable cc; Achilles heel of the class

Raid:
-relegated to mod-rod bitch and coth whore for most all raid environments.
-while not glamorous, mod rods and coth are actually pretty vital to raids

[Ronzonius]

I can end the debate since I'm the friend of the OP that he's trying to convince to stop playing. First a little background: I played an Iksar Shadow Knight for 87 levels starting during Velious. So right off the bat, Necro was out of the running even though I agree it would be the best fit.... It's just a little too familiar. The real debate was between a Wizard and a Mage since I wanted a char with some solo capability.... And honestly, the simplest little things made up my mind.

Ports, clickies, and the ability to worship Solusek Ro as a Dark Elf. I think I've rolled a Mage twice before... And I always delete him in disappointment. I'm not saying they're bad... They're just not my playstyle.

[Vexenu]

Troxx is spot on about Mage DPS. Also factor in spamming a Burnt Wood Staff and that's even more sustained damage, along with your entire Mana bar worth of nuking reserve for burn potential if needed. Mage DPS is really, really good. But yeah, besides pure damage and CotH there really isn't much there. They're very niche in that regard. Mages honestly play more like a pure melee class than they do any of the other casters. No CC, very few tricks, just pure damage. Which is another reason the are great in a healer duo: the pet allows them to tank and DPS at the same time. Just throw in a Shaman or Cleric and let the good times roll.

[NegaStoat]

If you can stomach playing a character with a sharply limited spellbook, the Magician's DPS is absurdly good. Some players that take the class up might feel disappointed that obtaining an epic will probably never happen. Truth told, getting a water staff and finishing the climb to 60 for the focused pet feels like a fine 2nd place epic when you review the damage scroll. I did it once on Live and was not disappointed.

This time around I leveled up a necro on P1999 instead due to having a much broader use spellbook in terms of options. It felt like a far more complete class. As long as you know exactly what you want out of a character before you start, you won't screw up with either choice.

[rdrstar]

Having leveled both a mage and necro and having loved both, I would strongly recommend your friend level a necro. Mages can solo 100%, but their options are a bit limited compared to necros. What will you be playing? Mages duo very well with certain classes (necros for instance), but in general necros make better duo partners. I wouldnt consider leveling a mage unless I intended to complete the epic.

[doormat00]

Wait.. necro pets don't eat half your exp?

[loramin]

Wait.. necro pets don't eat half your exp?

All pets eat half XP IF they do more than half damage and IF you aren't in a group.

[Snaggles]

All pets eat half XP IF they do more than half damage and IF you aren't in a group.

Just to clarify: IF vs OR?

I don't know hence the honest question but always thought if soloing with a pet you had to outdamage it to get the full xp. I also thought grouping with one person removed this requirement since they basically take the pet's share and could be a different type of class (healer, support, etc).

Tl; DR

Question...
Solo = have to KS your pet to get full xp?
Duo/Trio/Group = doesn't matter at all. Pet is just a sideshow and doesn't impact the teams xp?

[stebbins99]

Group duo (x2 PCs) or more = no need to worry about pet stealing exp

[DMN]

It's why pet classes should almost always at least be duoing, assuming you aren't limited by spawns. Makes your life so much easier. I was amazed at how many people turned down groups with my mage in steamfont when I was messing around with him a couple weeks ago.

[loramin]

Solo = have to KS your pet to get full xp?
Duo/Trio/Group = doesn't matter at all. Pet is just a sideshow and doesn't impact the teams xp?

Correct.