Shaman race dilemma: Re-roll?

[Boarder981]

I have a lvl 51 Barbarian Shaman, my highest level character. Due to some very generous people and my awesome guild, I’ve acquired a few decent pieces of equipment:

Ceremonial Iksar Chestplate
JBB
Thurgadin Legs
SoW clicky boots
SBS

Everything else is OK, not great. I’m also max faction for my epic, so tear and last fight to go.

In any case - I’ve always liked how Troll Shamans look, and I feel kinda gimped without the racial regen; I think it ramps up to an extra 10 or 12 hp/tick in the 50s! I wish I had re-rolled sooner, but now I’m feeling a little “locked in” due to all the effort I’ve put into my Barb.

I know people say “once you get Torpor it doesn’t matter”. I don’t get to play nearly as often as I’d like, so let’s assume a few things:

1. I won’t reach level 60
and/or
2. I can’t afford Torpor
and/or
3. I don’t have the resources to get epic, or the plat to MQ tear


Given the above, do you think it’s worth it to re-roll Troll? Will the extra regen make a big difference? I appreciate any input!

[Gozuk]

I too enjoy Troll shamans but my vote would be....no way. That Barb shaman has been there for you for 51 levels, putting him on blocks would be sad.

[loramin]

I know people say “once you get Torpor it doesn’t matter”. I don’t get to play nearly as often as I’d like, so let’s assume a few things:

1. I won’t reach level 60
and/or
2. I can’t afford Torpor
and/or
3. I don’t have the resources to get epic, or the plat to MQ tear


Given the above, do you think it’s worth it to re-roll Troll? Will the extra regen make a big difference? I appreciate any input!

I think if you can't get to level 60 from level 51 you're going to have an awfully hard time getting to 60 from level 1 (especially with a race with a much higher XP penalty).

Also, I think maybe you're being to pessimistic or short-sighted. Unless you have an expiration date on your P99 play ... and even then, if you only have (say) six months left to play, you'll still get more done in those six months with a 51 Shaman than a level 1 Shaman.

If you don't have an expiration date, then really all you're saying is those things will take you awhile ... and they will. But speaking as a casual-playing Barbarian Shaman myself, I got all those things and you can too, you just need patience.

And as it turned out it was actually a lot easier than I expected: once I hit 60 and started doing King groups, all it took was two good rolls on fungi tunics to get enough plat to buy Torpor. That was after a 2-3 months of doing King groups just on weekends and Friday nights (ie. filthy casual style). Similarly it took me months of Droga to afford my epic, and months of XPing to get to 60 ... but again I got all those things, and you absolutely can too (as a Barbarian, ie. the best Shaman race possible).

Once you do, I promise you won't miss Troll regen, and until you do the benefit that regen would have given you will be so, so much less than the benefit 50 levels gives you. Cloke is absolutely correct: it would be sad to shelve your Barbarian.

[Darkatar]

I have a lvl 51 Barbarian Shaman, my highest level character.
1. I won’t reach level 60
2. I can’t afford Torpor
3. I don’t have the resources to get epic, or the plat to MQ tear

Given the above, do you think it’s worth it to re-roll Troll? Will the extra regen make a big difference? I appreciate any input!

Okay, full disclosure, I'm in the Ogre boat, and I've played ogre barb troll to 50+, would choose ogre if I had to make the choice again.

That being said, I would be in the opposite category for #s 1-2-3.

My initial reaction to this thread was actually to suggest NOT rerolling for a race, but with those specific restrictions/stipulations as part of the decision making process, I reconsidered.

Being a troll (or iksar) would probably be the one biggest gain you could make without Epic/Torp/Fungi, so I would have to say that rerolling actually wouldn't be a terrible decision if you enjoy playing the class. If you enjoy that class that much I wouldn't really call #1-2-3 things you couldn't obtain, though.

I too enjoy Troll shamans but my vote would be....no way. That Barb shaman has been there for you for 51 levels, putting him on blocks would be sad.

Hey it doesn't have to be sad, he could be great EC mule (sowboots aw yeah) and maybe buff some noobs while selling.

Edit:
Due to some very generous people and my awesome guild, I’ve acquired a few decent pieces of equipment:
JBB


I missed that JBB at first, and I just wanna say, as an ogre fan, not having your JBB casts get slapped out of you 7 seconds in is amazing. Not enough reason to pick ogre over troll if you're considering 1-2-3 however.

[gutterbrain]

Fashion is the only thing that matters tbh. You are playing in a museum for you to place your favorite character. What I mean is, if you don't like staring at a barbarian shaman but do like staring at a troll shaman, just reroll. You don't have a deadline to reach so enjoy it as much as you can.

[DMN]

At this point it's probably not worth worrying about. With cannibalizing excess health, a troll will functionally be getting something around 7 mana a tick more than you. But your base barb mana regen will already be about 35 a tick. That's only about 20% increase in mana regen rates. Considering you arent even going to make it to 60, I would wonder if you will ever make up the difference in mana regenration on your would-be-troll to catch up to all the mana you already regenerating on your barb and including all the time leveling up the troll.

There is also the fact that regeneration only gets good in the 50s, and you already eat a 15% greater exp penalty on the troll. Knocking that difference in efficiency down to only around 5%, since you say you will never hit 60 your troll will always be leveling slower. With 5% difference in efficiency it would be reasonable and pertinent to estimate you'd have to play your troll TWO HUNDRED TIMES LONGER than the barb to recoup the losses

[Foxplay]

If your not sure you can get 60, or haven't even got another 60, re-rolling a toon in the 50s just for race isn't worth it

Besides barb shaman's look pretty cool, and in the end gear is going to vastly overshadow racial regen

[Nycon43]

Stick with your barb imo, looks like you already put work into thurg/true spirit faction no need to let that go to waste.

[Crede]

Yes. Absolutely reroll. fashion is #1 in this game. People will tell you it’s a waste but it’s a game play it how you want to. I’ve deleted many 40s chars and quit many 50s chars. It’s not hard to get to 51.

[Crede]

Stick with your barb imo, looks like you already put work into thurg/true spirit faction no need to let that go to waste.

Why is it a waste? Because you will lose all your elf sim progress?

So many people in MMOs love to make it all about progress & accomplishments like in real life. People forget it's still a game. If rolling a new race will make your experience more enjoyable, then do it.

Is torpor awesome at 60? Sure it is. But regen is also something there 100% of the time before that, and during that. Literally thousands of extra hp for doing nothing other than playing a certain race. Many people don't get to 60, or if they do, can't afford torpor, and then after that, may just decide to roll another char.

There are plenty of people out there who also have multiple races of the same class. Not that big of a deal.

[Nycon43]

Why is it a waste? Because you will lose all your elf sim progress?

So many people in MMOs love to make it all about progress & accomplishments like in real life. People forget it's still a game. If rolling a new race will make your experience more enjoyable, then do it.

Is torpor awesome at 60? Sure it is. But regen is also something there 100% of the time before that, and during that. Literally thousands of extra hp for doing nothing other than playing a certain race. Many people don't get to 60, or if they do, can't afford torpor, and then after that, may just decide to roll another char.

There are plenty of people out there who also have multiple races of the same class. Not that big of a deal.


Whoa now, I just mentioned it because it is a time commitment that the OP might not want to go through again as a casual player. It's ultimately up to him how much he cares. Never compared this to real life accomplishments.

[loramin]

Why is it a waste? Because you will lose all your elf sim progress?

Ummm ... the OP literally asked:

Given the above, do you think it’s worth it to re-roll Troll? Will the extra regen make a big difference? I appreciate any input!

In other words, the OP himself asked the forum whether he should keep all of his "elf sim progress." People responded by explaining that the extra regen will not make anywhere close to as much difference as levels ... ie. that losing all those levels would be a waste.

There's nothing wrong with people answering the OP's question.

[Snaggles]

There is always a compelling reason to do more grinding. I would never say it’s a “waste of time” because that’s the main reason most of us are on P99.

That said, the reasons in order of importance I might consider such an extensive restart (and grinding the first 34 levels as a shaman which SUCK) are...

1. Preferred fashionquesting
2. Symbol quests
3. Boredom
4. Any racial perks

Really it’s only #4 because I ran out of reasons. It’s wayyy down the list though. My troll is 54 and constantly I kick myself for not going barb. Outdoor shrinking problems, happy faction, a cheap cool procing 2hb, 20% xp surcharge not being there, white polar bear (which id have by now without the penalty). Etc

I’ll never get the epic, prob not lvl 60, and torpor is a big ask. Plenty of alts to play and plat to burn. I still think a casually geared mid 50’s Sham is a beast of a class. In fact, I don’t think any race is going to give much of a benefit or restriction, it’s just that good. If your ability to kill something comes down to racial regen you bit off way too much to chew...

[Danth]

20% xp surcharge not being there

Troll penalty is 20%. Barbarian has a 10% penalty. I know the wiki says 5% for Barbarian, but it's 10%. This is readily confirmed in-game by watching a Human character level in a duo next to a Barbarian (the wife and I have done this on alts)--the Human hits his level when the Barbarian has 10% to go, like clockwork.

Danth

[Snaggles]

Troll penalty is 20%. Barbarian has a 10% penalty. I know the wiki says 5% for Barbarian, but it's 10%. This is readily confirmed in-game by watching a Human character level in a duo next to a Barbarian (the wife and I have done this on alts)--the Human hits his level when the Barbarian has 10% to go, like clockwork.

Danth

Oh snap. Good to know :)

[loramin]

Troll penalty is 20%. Barbarian has a 10% penalty. I know the wiki says 5% for Barbarian, but it's 10%. This is readily confirmed in-game by watching a Human character level in a duo next to a Barbarian (the wife and I have done this on alts)--the Human hits his level when the Barbarian has 10% to go, like clockwork.

Danth

I went to make this change in the wiki (and for the record, wikis have edit buttons, so anyone can change them ;)) but then I wasn't sure if it was correct, because it just seems odd that Barbarians (with no real racial powers, just faction and night blindness) have a 10% penalty while Trolls/Iksar (with regen) only have 20%. While I totally believe Danth, I just wanted to double-check that P99 itself was correct, so I tried to do some classic research.

I thought that since this was a basic fact of EverQuest that it would be easy. I set Google to only show sites from 1999-2001, started doing some searches, and ... after 30-60 minutes of digging (I got so desperate I even read the old Prima Guide ... for the record it doesn't mention XP penalties) the best evidence I had found was this gem on the old Caster's Realm ...

Q: Can anyone give an example of XP penalty? How much longer would it take to reach 10th level, killing the same mobs with a Barbarian vs Troll Shaman? Thanks
A: Well seeing as they both pay the same large race penalty. It would take the same amount of time.

... which made me realize that I am no Rygar :(

So, I know the devs have almost certainly got it right in-game, and the wiki is almost certainly wrong, but just to ease my mind does anyone out there happen to have a classic source?

[Darkatar]

(I got so desperate I even read the old Prima Guide ... for the record it doesn't mention XP penalties)


Lol, I just spent 10 minutes digging mine out before I finished reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0SuaQ3x.gif

Can confirm, not a word about xp pens lol.

[Danth]

Can't help with this one. I saw the Barbarian penalty as-implemented on P99 but your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not the existing value's correct for the era.

Danth

[momotion]

Reroll ogre before you invest 200k + into epic torpor etc , you end up being useless in solo/duo artists moment where you can farm fat lets at 50% win rate , I had barb on live , but on p99 , it all about min/max , others shm just can't compare to wut my oggy shm solo/tank or stats without having the best gear ... Troll iksar is just raid shm that die on the first stun they get

[loramin]

Reroll ogre before you invest 200k + into epic torpor etc , you end up being useless in solo/duo artists moment where you can farm fat lets at 50% win rate , I had barb on live , but on p99 , it all about min/max , others shm just can't compare to wut my oggy shm solo/tank or stats without having the best gear ... Troll iksar is just raid shm that die on the first stun they get

Please. FSI isn't half as good as you're making it out to be. Which isn't to say it's bad: it's definitely the best end-game Shaman racial power. But it does not make the difference in solo/duo artist moments; the server's top solo artist shaman was a Barbarian!

[Boarder981]

Thanks for all the great input, guys! I’m still torn about the decision. I actually went ahead and rolled a Troll just to see how it was. Hit level 9 (yay SoW!), but it seemed to take a long time to get there. TBH, I don’t remember how long it took to get to lvl 9 on my Barb, so it could have just felt longer because I know there’s a higher XP penalty. After all, perception is a powerful thing :p. I’m definitely interested to find out if the Barb penalty actually is 10%. If so, that’s total BS, especially because Barbs don’t have any defining racial benefits.

One thing I DID notice is that since trolls are so large, it’s difficult to click targets in front of me when in 3rd person view. Yeah I know I can use the target nearest/next hotkeys, but a lot of times it’s easier to click. I imagine with an ogre it’s probably worse.

In the end it may just come down to the time factor. If I could play a few hours per day consistently and twink the Troll, then it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Unfortunately that’s not the case, and if the regen won’t be game-changing, then I’m not sure it’s worth the extra time & effort. It’s not that I don’t like Barbs, just that regen has such great synergy with Canni and I think Trolls are a bit cooler.

Any other input is greatly appreciated!

[Darkatar]

One thing I DID notice is that since trolls are so large, it’s difficult to click targets in front of me when in 3rd person view.

Well, at 55 you'll probably spend your life as a bear anyway.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Form_of_the_Great_Bear

[isoka]

Thanks for all the great input, guys! I’m still torn about the decision. I actually went ahead and rolled a Troll just to see how it was. Hit level 9 (yay SoW!), but it seemed to take a long time to get there. TBH, I don’t remember how long it took to get to lvl 9 on my Barb, so it could have just felt longer because I know there’s a higher XP penalty. After all, perception is a powerful thing :p. I’m definitely interested to find out if the Barb penalty actually is 10%. If so, that’s total BS, especially because Barbs don’t have any defining racial benefits.

One thing I DID notice is that since trolls are so large, it’s difficult to click targets in front of me when in 3rd person view. Yeah I know I can use the target nearest/next hotkeys, but a lot of times it’s easier to click. I imagine with an ogre it’s probably worse.

In the end it may just come down to the time factor. If I could play a few hours per day consistently and twink the Troll, then it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Unfortunately that’s not the case, and if the regen won’t be game-changing, then I’m not sure it’s worth the extra time & effort. It’s not that I don’t like Barbs, just that regen has such great synergy with Canni and I think Trolls are a bit cooler.

Any other input is greatly appreciated!

First 14 levels are horrible as a shaman. Then it's getting better and better. Regarding the regen, it is game changing, and especially 51+ where it makes a huge difference compared to non iksars / shamans.
Keep on playing the troll, you won't regret it.

[Nycon43]

Wouldn't call racial regen game changing.

[Crede]

Wouldn't call racial regen game changing.

For a class that uses its hp for mana? Yea I’d say it’s pretty game changing. That’s like saying playing an Iksar necro isn’t game changing. It is.

Thousands of extra hp per hour for literally doing nothing. Maybe not for face tanking a named with torpor at 60 it isn’t. But any other normal leveling situation it is, IMO

[Nycon43]

Guess when I think of game changing in this context I mean does it allow you to do something a non-iksar/troll couldn't do. Sure regen/FSI are nice perks but ultimately they don't allow you to do something you normally couldn't do.

[loramin]

For a class that uses its hp for mana? Yea I’d say it’s pretty game changing. That’s like saying playing an Iksar necro isn’t game changing. It is.

Thousands of extra hp per hour for literally doing nothing. Maybe not for face tanking a named with torpor at 60 it isn’t. But any other normal leveling situation it is, IMO

Thousands of extra HP per hour? Below level 50 a Troll/Iksar regens only 3 HP more a tick than a non-Troll/Iksar. That's a net of only 1800 HP per hour, which isn't even thousands ... and that's only IF you never stand for that entire hour (every tick of standing only gives you 1 HP more).

It does get better at the higher levels, but don't discount how long those first 50 levels take. And then even at higher levels it's only a difference of 7 (at 51-55) or 10 (at 55-59), for a total of 4200/hour or 6000/hour.

Now, factor in that that the Barbarian has a 10% less experience penalty, and so only needs to earn 91.7% of the XP each hour that the Troll needs. Does 1800 HP an hour make up for that? Also consider that it takes time to convert that HP to mana: at level 39 when the Shaman first gets Cann II they can get about 800 mana from that HP ... from about 27 castings of Cannibalize II.

To be fair, the ratio gets better as the Shaman goes up in level from there, or they could be more efficient (but need more casts) by using Cannibalize I (or less efficient with fewer casts once they get Cann III). But look, the Troll will already be behind the Shaman however long 27 casting of Cann II takes (assuming they convert all the HP into mana; if not it will take a less casts ... but then HP doesn't help you level as fast as mana does). The Troll needs to not just make up for that time (not just once per level, but per hour played), but also (more significantly) the 8.3% of a level the Barb gets from the XP penalty difference.

Since different levels take different amounts of time to gain it's hard to properly compute things, but the point I'm trying to make is that some extra HP (that you still have to convert to mana) every hour is just not going to make the Troll/Iksar sail through the levels while the Barbarian lags behind: it's going to be the opposite.

But don't get me wrong: regen is great, and even if it doesn't mean leveling faster than the Barb, it does seriously help make up for the increased XP penalty, and it mean less time sitting on your ass during that leveling (which pretty objectively makes them "more fun" to level, in that sense). And at 60, even with Torpor, Troll regen still beats Barbarian's racial non-powers of faction and polar bear illusion (since FashionQuest is hard to quantify).

I'm just saying that I don't buy that overall Troll regen makes Trolls level faster than Barbarians, because when I crunch the numbers it doesn't look like it does.

[Cillaz]

2 options - Re roll : knowing that it will take a long time to get 51 (plus all the skills, spells, quests, keys, faction etc you earnt along the way)
Dont re-roll and get a fungi - regen dealt with.

youll probably get 51-60 in the same time as 1-51 on a troll. Torpor can be gained in groups in seb, or from guilds via raids, its not as hard as some think.

[Wallicker]

At level 60 when your sitting as a troll/iksar it’s like having an extra chloroplast on, I don’t play a shaman but don’t y’all keep your regen spell up 24/7? All ya gotta do is sit and get insta chloroplast that stacks with everything...could make this debate if you were an ogre, or thought barbarian looked cooler but that’s not the case. Sell everything on your barb and buy a fungi or iksar regen bp and a decent weapon and head to upper Guk / com /HHK and you’ll be level 55, full faction and a bear in a couple months as a troll.

[Crede]

At level 60 when your sitting as a troll/iksar it’s like having an extra chloroplast on, I don’t play a shaman but don’t y’all keep your regen spell up 24/7? All ya gotta do is sit and get insta chloroplast that stacks with everything...could make this debate if you were an ogre, or thought barbarian looked cooler but that’s not the case. Sell everything on your barb and buy a fungi or iksar regen bp and a decent weapon and head to upper Guk / com /HHK and you’ll be level 55, full faction and a bear in a couple months as a troll.

Great post. Do this.

Getting to 51 is extremely easy if you know how to ride the zem wave. Barb will make for a good naggy vox toon

[Lojik]

This server isn't going anywhere, nor is it going to get more content/expansions. Reroll, get to 51, then Reroll again because why the fuck not. 55+ on this server is awful anyway.

[DMN]

Reread my post and ignore everyone else.

seems hardly anyone realizes he's not even planning to play the character enough to get 60 on his barb, let alone plow his way there on a troll with a bigger exp penalty. You have to add up the opportunity cost. You've already regenerated massive amounts of health and massive amounts of mana. It will take you way too long to recoup your losses via troll regen given your playtime considerations.

[Wallicker]

He likes how troll looks, troll has better regen than barbarian, he will have more fun with troll, why wouldn’t he re roll a troll?

[Nycon43]

Thread is about three weeks old, I'm assuming OP made up his mind already.

[Tenagra]

Thread is about three weeks old, I'm assuming OP made up his mind already.

Actually curious what he decided. I have a Troll Shaman that's 28 i've been thinking about rerolling barb. Both look so cool it's hard to decide. What did I end up doing? I stopped playing shaman altogether because I couldn't make up my mind :D. Back to Porting..

[Troxx]

Well, at 55 you'll probably spend your life as a bear anyway.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Form_of_the_Great_Bear

I’m a weird shaman that rarely uses bear form. The extra regen and wisdom is neat and all but I like my ugly ass troll and all of his goofy ass run and casting graphics.

[Issar]

I’m a weird shaman that rarely uses bear form. The extra regen and wisdom is neat and all but I like my ugly ass troll and all of his goofy ass run and casting graphics.

I was the same way on Live. Bear was fun when the spell came out, but after a week or so, I missed my blind eyed barb. If the eye patch transferred over to form of the bear, I might have used it more frequently. Still though, the model and animations are a thousand times better than wolf form... sorry druids

[Boarder981]

Actually curious what he decided. I have a Troll Shaman that's 28 i've been thinking about rerolling barb. Both look so cool it's hard to decide. What did I end up doing? I stopped playing shaman altogether because I couldn't make up my mind :D. Back to Porting..

Funny you mention that. I haven’t played the Barb or the Troll since I made the original post. I still can’t decide, and honestly haven’t played much the last few weeks. The little time I have played was devoted to working on my Druid. Want to get him high enough for ports so I’m not always poor ;)

It may sound lame, but I’ve come back to this post a few times to re-read all the responses, but still find it very difficult to make a final decision.

BTW, thanks all for the great advice!

[jolanar]

This server isn't going anywhere, nor is it going to get more content/expansions. Reroll, get to 51, then Reroll again because why the fuck not. 55+ on this server is awful anyway.

This is my advice as well.

[richice]

Not to intentionally open a can of worms, but Ogre is the best Shaman pick, right? (Considering you get to level 60 with torpor)

[Crede]

Not to intentionally open a can of worms, but Ogre is the best Shaman pick, right? (Considering you get to level 60 with torpor)

Highly debated topic. But I'll lay out the facts for you:

99.8% of the time Troll Regen + JBB is the most useful
.01% of the time Ogre FSI will save you from dying
.01% of the time the extra AC from Iksar will save you from dying

I'll let you decide.

[loramin]

Not to intentionally open a can of worms, but Ogre is the best Shaman pick, right? (Considering you get to level 60 with torpor)

Ogre is the best race, by a very small margin that pretty much everyone agrees is not very significant, once you reach level 60 and get Torpor. But again, it's a small margin: the "worst" race (at 60 with Torpor), ie. Barbarian, happens to be the race of the top shaman solo artist on this server.

For getting to 60 Barbarian is the fastest (lowest XP penalty). Also they're the only ones that get good faction ... but they spend more time meditating up. Trolls spend less time on their ass because of their regen, so are arguably better. Iksar have all the Troll downsides but can't use the JBB (getting only a slight AC increase in return), so they are generally considered the weakest.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Shaman has a much more detailed analysis to let you make your own opinion.

[Tenagra]

Funny you mention that. I haven’t played the Barb or the Troll since I made the original post. I still can’t decide, and honestly haven’t played much the last few weeks. The little time I have played was devoted to working on my Druid. Want to get him high enough for ports so I’m not always poor ;)

It may sound lame, but I’ve come back to this post a few times to re-read all the responses, but still find it very difficult to make a final decision.

BTW, thanks all for the great advice!

rofl I feel you man. Porting is a great activity when you aren't sure what you wanna do. It also lets you check out everyones fashion-questing and sometimes that can help influence what you wanna do next.

[Vexenu]

The thing about the Shaman races is that you can at least make decent arguments for all of them, depending on what you value most as a player.

Barbarian - Fastest leveling, good faction, JBB, polar bear hats
Troll - Regen & JBB
Ogre - FSI & JBB
Iksar - Least played race so you stand out as a unique snowflake, regen, AC bonus

Basically, for the Shaman class each race has distinct pros and cons. Contrast this with almost every other class, where race either makes pretty much no difference whatsoever (Magician, Wizard, Rogue, Ranger, Bard, Paladin, etc...) or where one race has such an overwhelming advantage over the others that there is essentially zero min/max debate even possible (Monk, Necro, SK, Warrior).

The reason why Shaman race is so heavily debated is because there really is no objectively correct answer as to which is "best". The class itself is so powerful that race is not make or break either way, so it comes down to personal preference on what pros and cons you prefer.

[Crede]

The thing about the Shaman races is that you can at least make decent arguments for all of them, depending on what you value most as a player.

Barbarian - Fastest leveling, good faction, JBB, polar bear hats
Troll - Regen & JBB
Ogre - FSI & JBB
Iksar - Least played race so you stand out as a unique snowflake, regen, AC bonus

Basically, for the Shaman class each race has distinct pros and cons. Contrast this with almost every other class, where race either makes pretty much no difference whatsoever (Magician, Wizard, Rogue, Ranger, Bard, Paladin, etc...) or where one race has such an overwhelming advantage over the others that there is essentially zero min/max debate even possible (Monk, Necro, SK, Warrior).

The reason why Shaman race is so heavily debated is because there really is no objectively correct answer as to which is "best". The class itself is so powerful that race is not make or break either way, so it comes down to personal preference on what pros and cons you prefer.

I wouldn’t call anything overwhelming advantages, or else there wouldn’t be endless debates on it. Also not sure why you’re using barbarian leveling speed as an advantage but leaving it out for those other 4 classes.

Best shaman race in “most” scenarios is troll. Ogre will win in certain ones. Iksar ac isnt worth giving up jbb IMO. Barb has a few decent perks, but should not be in the discussion for best shaman race.

[Snaggles]

The only race at a considerable disadvantage is the Iksar w/o access to a JBB. Not an issue at level 60 with torpor and an epic but much of a shaman's life doesn't have those items. Depending on resources that extra 200k plat push in no-drop items is unobtainable. That makes a JBB some serious filthy casual helpfulness across the board.

[Issar]

When Luclin drops it’s all about the Vah Shir. Discuss.

AKA trolling; b/c Troll is the best shaman race given the OPs description. Regen is king if you’re likely never going to have torp, and access to a JBB separates them from Iksar. That being said my shaman on P99 is an Iksar. I really just enjoy the race.

[ldgo86]

Play what you can stand to look at for your characters life. I knew troll was better objectively, but I rolled ogre because I can appreciate being a fatty but not a green garbled looking fatty.

[Boarder981]

I knew troll was better objectively, but I rolled ogre because I can appreciate being a fatty but not a green garbled looking fatty.

Made me laugh out loud! For me it’s the opposite.

I’m beginning to think I should just stick with the Barb. After all, tons of people play Ogre Shaman and do fine without the extra regen. Yes I know FSI can be uber in the right situation, but honestly I don’t think there’s any way I’d play an Ogre.

On an unrelated note, are there custom Velious chain helms? I only see the custom graphics for plate on the wiki fashion page. If so, does anyone have a link to a pic? I really hate the Barb chain helm look.

[Troxx]

Don’t forget that 3 of the 4 shaman races can slam. Terrible damage but works surprisingly well for interrupting casters.

[Issar]

On an unrelated note, are there custom Velious chain helms? I only see the custom graphics for plate on the wiki fashion page. If so, does anyone have a link to a pic? I really hate the Barb chain helm look.

Not that I'm aware of