Best tank class (group edition)

[Jimjam]

Taking damage so other group mates don't have to... Who does it best?

[rjw513]

Depends on the group mates... Warrior seems obvious esp at higher levels, but knights do great if rogs and monks don’t evade/fed aggro

[beversami]

Low effort shit post.

[baakss]

Twin towers? Did you confuse server chat with RNF?

[Cecily]

As far as aggro, ranger is pretty equal to bard. I think the point, tho, for having a substandard tank (utility hybrids) is snap aggro and damage, which the ranger will have an easier time with consistently vs bard. As a rogue, my favorite tank was always ranger. I’ve tanked a whole lot of places on my ranger 1-60, and pretty well too.

Bard’s melee damage is bad, but they have neat tricks. Dunno how sustainable charming is, but that’s about the coolest thing you can do in a pinch. Most people bad and don’t have gaz ring though and that really fucks up the pace waiting on charm breaks.

Culprit used to powerlevel my alt rogue and bard tanking (seb/KC) is pretty bad ass, quite honestly.

[Cen]

Bard has high defense and plate and tons of hateful aoe.

But mobs can smell rangers and want to sink their teeth into their assets because they can smell low defense and smell chain.

So I voted ranger.

[Cecily]

I’m honestly kinda struggling to think of good reasons to go ranger over bard, assuming both are sufficiently overgeared to hell which is the secret ingredient that makes this conversation work. Level appropriately geared rangers and bards are on par or slightly worse than rogues for loading please wait.

[Legidias]

No class can out aggro bard except -maybe- wizard clicking their temp stick constantly (tried and tested vs pally / sk spamming their aggro spells vs the bard snare/slow).

Bard is a better xp group tank. Has full aggro at 100% hp and mob comes in pre slowed. Can just take out a lute and sing regen / haste / DS / slow aggro while tanking or CC while tanking easily.

Rangers are okay but they will get shat on if competing for aggro and rely on proc to slow.

[solleks]

Bard can slow : winz

7 was a demo job

[Lordgordon]

Voted Retard

[fadetree]

One for Ranger. Rangers can proc slow pretty frequently and snap aggro all day. I actually would say Pallie but not listed.

[Crede]

Iksar sk with Greenmist

[Jimjam]

Twin towers? Did you confuse server chat with RNF?Thank you for taking time to relay your considered opinions.

Not really. In a recent bard thread there was an interesting post on tanking, which while tangential to the main focus of the thread seemed worthy of further thought.

Polls are improved with a spoil ballot optio., I included the option in a fashion that respected forum traditions, with a nod towards the current scout whinge thread.

You'll also note the poll is non anonymous so bard sympathisers can be rounded up and sent to reeducation camps.

[d3r14k]

Voted Retard

That was not in the poll options, SIR.

Voted: Other. Warrior gets superior disciplines and is the best tank for raid situations. Paladin wins in 6 man situations because of better snap aggro and the ability to save the Enchanter or Cleric's ass with Lay on Hands if shit hits the fan.

[Bardp1999]

Sub 45 Bards are awesome tanks. Post 45 their lack of mitigation really starts to shine as they absorb all the clerics mana

[DiogenesThaDogg]

Rangers tank Mistmoore pretty well in the mid-20s.

[jolanar]

I vote (Other) as it's pretty clear to me the best non raid tank is aoe stuns.

[Darkatar]

Pallie but not listed.

Seconded. Was in a king group@ZO and the enc DC'd with a charmed hasted+weaponized+geared (jumpy robe, -mr gear, etc) live frog.while the monk was doing a 2pull

Group members (Self)Cleric, Rogue, Monk, Enc, Pal, Mag

Enc was pretargetted for break situations.
Frog starts wrecking the enc. (60%)
PATCH heal (90%)
Continues wrecking enc (50%)
Enc isn't casting, I'm worried he's getting stunned out of casts.
STUN@Expet->Lands
Enc stands motionless
F6 to target the enc, nothing happens.
At this point I notice the enc isn't in the group, I rotate my camera and see the LD flag on his long ass name.
Continues wrecking enc (15%, lowhp aggro snaps room)
Enc is going down.

CHOICE 1: DA. I don't want this. Hasted pet will definitely rip up the group and I won't be able to rez solo in ZO.
CHOICE 2: BE THE CC! I also don't really want to do this, but at this point the paladin is chain stunning because we have no slows, a shroom priest + war in addition to the ex-pet frog in the ZO. The mage wasn't using earth (was epic or air for stunning healers idr).

I take choice 2.

ROOT->Resist
HITS YOU! (70%)
Pal FOL's loose Expet so it stops sticking to me
CE Pal
ROOT->LandsBreaks. Why are you charming this shit?
ROOT->LandsBreaks. Internally Screaming
(aggro snaps back to me,FOL Fade likely)
HITS YOU! (40%)
Pal FOL's a second time but was likely a resist as the aggro soon switched to me
CE self (60%) (Snaps Expet)
HITS YOU! (35%)

DA DA DA DA! (macro to group)
ExPet goes loose hitting people while the tank is FOLing to keep it mostly on him (keep in mind he's also tanking the shroom priest and war while this is happening)
CE TIC (55%)

I say to the group "I'll root move from mid"
Amazingly nobody is shitting their pants and the frog is almost instantly relocated to a back corner by the ZO pad.
At this point, Enc is dead, most people are ~50%-60%hp, but the pal tank is suprisingly still above 80. I've got about 1 CH/ce left with a root or two in the tank, or about 6-7 roots.

At this point I notice *A myconid warrior yawns*
This rogue had switched in a locustlure the moment the enc died out of instinct.

ROOT Expet->Lands!
CE TIC (75%)
Shroom priest goes down, Group starts killing the shroom war, it's down to about 85% when;
ROOT BREAK!
HITS YOU! (45%)
STUN! -> Resist
CE TIC (65%)
ROOT! -> Resist Wtf did tash AND malosini fade?????
HITS YOU! (35%)
ROOT->LandsHITS YOU! (15%)
HITS YOU! (LOADING PLEASE WAIT...)

I think it's game over at this point.

Group is silent
30 seconds pass
Me: "Who's dead atm?"
No response, I assume people are LOADING PLEASE WAIT.
Mage: "Pet inc"
20-30 seconds pass
Monk: "FUCK!"
Me: "You die?"
Monk: "yeah"
A few more seconds pass
Mage: "Last pet"
~60sec of silence
Mage: "I'm dead"
~30seconds pass
What's going on?
~60seconds of silence
Pal: OK REZ inc you ready gream??
Me: (Internally-UHHHHH????) Gsay-Yes.
I receive and take a pal rez. Pal is at 50%, rogue is BWing pal and at 60% himself.

Turns out the last root before I died actually held out, they killed the shroom before the frog got loose, then the mage started sacrificing DS'd pets to the expet frog. When the pet got low, the paladin rooted it and caught med tics and the monk tanked while the mage whipped up a new pet. Monk drew the short stick and failed his mend -and- flop and ate shit while the mob was palarooted, but the last mage pet was already up so it wasn't in vain. Expet then killed the pet, the mage, switched to the pal around 30% remaining hp on the frog and the pal stunned it while the rogue hit it with some snare (OSS or SBD or something). Got it fleeing and won.

After getting set back up with a rep enc and killing again, It donned on me how amazing it was that everyone worked so well in a super shitty situation without anyone flipping out or pointing fingers (Likely due to the paladin rez pulling together the save).
I don't remember who if anyone got the LOH but i'm pretty sure that was part of the save too.

Can't remember the Enc's name but they never came back and in the following days didn't spot them in the zone. They were a good enc just got unlucky with that DC, hope they're ok. Don't know who snagged the pet gear either(if anyone, lol).


TL;DR A Paladin tank salvaged a bad moment in king and I'll never forget it.

Honorable mention to the prepared rogue too but this is a tank thread.

[fadetree]

Hah great story. Good group.

[Teppler]

Different classes for different situations. In group situations theres times when Pally/SK/Ranger snap aggro is king. There's times when that doesn't matter and monk will be better. There's times when warrior is king too. I have to say, things are pretty well balanced.

[Erati]

The only time a paladin is inferior as a “group” tank is if the groups goal is to take on some semi difficult raidish named that normally warriors defensive/evasive on. General in Kith for example destroys a paly tank compared to warriors.

If we re talking PUG style dungeon crawl a Paladin is the top of tank food chain as Greame exciting tale hilights how crucial having stuns roots and even an emergency res can be.

If you use a paladin for tank you can likely get away from needing a cleric if you have your other group slots also flexible hybrids like bards ranger and druid even. If you give a paly clarity aka have ench in group he will basically never run out of mana unless hes really pumping heals but its just rather amazing how well they can just handle group content w lulls n roots to split rooms even.

The other great thing about paladin is theyre rare! Server is 10 years old and there is rarely if ever 10 lvl 60 paladins online at same time. Most of the time its like 1-3 ! Embrace it fellow paladins, this poll is an outrage for not listing the answer to the OP Question.

[Teppler]

Allow me to ask you this about pallies. Let’s say another melee has 2 bags of these, what advantage is a pally still giving your group?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn_Totem_of_Rolfron_Zek

[Erati]

Allow me to ask you this about pallies. Let’s say another melee has 2 bags of these, what advantage is a pally still giving your group?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn_Totem_of_Rolfron_Zek

Clicky Symbol 300 hp heal ( can heal forever bc good paladins w DW BP have full bag of jaspers)

Heal Over Time - One of most efficient HoTs out there

Divine Str - Free HP? Yes pls!

Stuns to prevent mobs gating or healing

Undead mastery - Nukes and swords w undead procs

Can bash w epic - more interrupts

Can Res - up to 90% exp returned!

Can split room w lull - (or root)

Ghetto CC aka root

Can heal group while tanking and then notice pet break from corner of eye then casually toss a stun to make ench life easier.

Warrior aint got none of dis.

[Darkatar]

Allow me to ask you this about allies. Let’s say another melee has 2 bags of these, what advantage is a pally still giving your group?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn_Totem_of_Rolfron_Zek


(Chargeless) Roots
(Chargeless) Stuns
Backup instant heals(or just consistent heals with any enc +/ potg +/bard),
Celestial cleansing hot which is more efficient than any instant heal excluding Complete heal
Pinch Calms
150hp reagent-less rune (albeit with cooldown)
+200hp buff (CH efficiency, Enc safety net)
Rez
LOH


Also IIRC it was patched a while back that classes without manabars can't channel clickies through anything, so unless the melee is not a pure they'll probably have a hard time trying to use those while being hit.

Edit2: Yep : https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186455


Haynar: Pure melee (or anyone currently lacking the channeling skill) will no longer be able to channel through spells, if they get hit by melee or move while casting the spell.



Edit: Goddamnit Era Xd

[Erati]

man me and Greame love paladins!

[Stroboo]

Enchanter, makes everything easier...added bonus of no mellee to buff/heal

[Erati]

Enchanter, makes everything easier...added bonus of no mellee to buff/heal

:confused:

[Troxx]

For 99% of group content? Paladin.

For the other 1%? Warrior because you needed the disc.

Paladin:
-only REAL tank that can root without a clicky
-only REAL tank that can heal (self or others) without a clicky
-only Tank that can produce on demand stun
-only tank that can Rez without a clicky
-only REAL tank that can pacify/lull
-loh
-ghetto cleric buffs (symbol/reso)
-divine str buff
-dps isn’t good but likewise is not terrible once geared

Honorable mention: bard. Sk are more capable straight up tanks by a long shot but bards can do so much more extra.

Worst: ranger

[Legidias]

SKs can heal other without a clicky, just sayin.

[astuce999]

The Pallie story is a great one, and why people love EQ.

Since this is a tank debate thread, and only because of that because otherwise it really was a great story and the telling of it was wonderfully executed, if we were to replace the pallie with a bard in your story, the Expet would have been immediately charmed by the bard so that the group could continue killing fast and then slowed before it did any damage to anyone to finish it off.

Bard wins.

Astuce

[Erati]

The Pallie story is a great one, and why people love EQ.

Since this is a tank debate thread, and only because of that because otherwise it really was a great story and the telling of it was wonderfully executed, if we were to replace the pallie with a bard in your story, the Expet would have been immediately charmed by the bard so that the group could continue killing fast and then slowed before it did any damage to anyone to finish it off.

Bard wins.

Astuce

Sorry the bard was oom from having to constantly charm throughout the entire group since no true tank. Group dies in this situation.

Paladin wins.

[Cecily]

I, too, enjoy a heated discussion about a game that came out in 1999 in the present year.


I think soul reaver was too puzzle-oriented to be much fun.

[Cen]

Btw I posted earlier that I voted ranger as a joke but if you were being even 1% serious bard is 100% a better tank and I cant imagine even a little debate. 252 defense skill vs 200, similar minor defense skills, armor that has,more AC, hp, and resists on average, a class that builds tank stats anyway, more aggro on the songs that count, more utility, and better slow on demand. They only cant DPS as well as a ranger WHILE tanking but by 5 chanting can pull 80+ with a drum while naked. Theres no contest in tanking.

But just get a paladin. Damn.

[Cecily]

Yes, but they aren't bards and have lightning swords so ranger clearly wins.

[Danth]

Ranger vs Bard as a tank? Odd poll, neither of them will typically be sought for that job unless there's none of the actual tank types around. Both can tank when necessary but have a certain opportunity cost involved with so doing. Between the two the Bard's potentially better, although in practice the massive disparity in the quality of individual Bards means the Ranger tends to perform more consistently.


Danth

[Ennewi]

Allow me to ask you this about pallies. Let’s say another melee has 2 bags of these, what advantage is a pally still giving your group?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn_Totem_of_Rolfron_Zek

Damage-free stun. Builds aggro on mezzed targets while tanking. Holy Might deals damage, making it the primary choice versus engaged targets that cast, but minimizing its versatility except when needing to break mez after enough aggro has been generated to minimize the time between current target's death and new target's engagement. Also, one well-timed stun can save a lot of mana elsewhere (puller/cc about to eat a nuke/dot/dispel) and, assuming the stun isn't resisted, it gives the tank ample time to move out of los and prep another stun because the mob will most likely cast again once los is reestablished.

Healing puller. Saves cleric/shaman/etc mana and redirects incoming mobs onto paladin, making the enchanter's job of containing the adds that much easier.

Wave of Healing. Underused because of the high mana cost, but its low cast-time is a lifesaver when sub-59 (no Celestial Cleansing) and LoH is down. Even if only one group member is low hp and LoH is available, the mana spent on WoH is often worth using instead. With any combination of C/FT/PoTG, regaining that mana won't take long.

Wave of Healing also has the potential to heal +1500hp across the board, assuming full group; individually it's often just enough to keep members alive amid a train. If the group is running to zoneline because of a train, paladin casts WoH asap or runs ahead, then casts to have a head start on the train. WoH has a decent enough range and acts as an aggro magnet. One cast on the group and paladin likely has all of the train aggroed, allowing them to run it elsewhere, keeping it preoccupied before casting DA and doubling back to the zoneline.

Other tank classes can do the same for aggro with a Tunareberry/Shiny Brass Idol, but both items are lore, and Prayers of Life are too expensive.

Lull. Chain pulls made easy with less charisma; single pulls made possible with more charisma. No line of sight required and, from level 45 onward, no mana required with Deepwater Vambraces.

Cancel Magic. Allows paladin to pull submerged mobs from above water--ideal in zones such as Karnor's where the moat is pretty much FFA (not that the entire zone
doesn't fall into that same category during peak hours). Other classes also have Cancel Magic of course, but most have too many other, more important spells and would rather not reserve a slot for it. Eventually, paladins don't even need to reserve a spell slot for it because of Deepwater Gauntlets.

The spellbook paladins have appears bland at first glance due to their overall lack of damage output and colorful magic. However, that redundancy is not without variation which, no matter how subtle, can easily translate into an averted death or all out wipe. With the spells that knights have, all roads lead to Rome. Stun #1 resisted? Cast stun #2 or #3, then 1 again if necessary. Celestial Cleansing on cooldown? Another member has low hp aggro? Move into range for Lay on Hands or cast Wave of Healing. Shadow Knights work within similar parameters, having access to 3 different versions of Feign Death and a slew of lifetaps to provide additional survivability when Feign Death fails and/or when needing to wait out mobs that cast.

Paladins have to make the most out of multiple temporary fixes, instead of falling back on one or two reliable spells like Shadow Knights. But three stuns, a weapon stun proc, and bash can all be turned into one drawn out interruption which amounts to having no buffs dispelled and no spell damage on the tank (assuming the mobs aren't immune). Because of this, Paladins aren't exactly reliant on junk buffs, a convenient feature of the class which opens up more slots for quality buffs/bard songs.

Other tank/paper tank classes have their own strengths obviously and, depending on the camp/needs of the group, those abilities can be used with more desirable results. But imo paladins are the all-around safest bet in a random group of strangers. Bards have the best aggro, cc and pulls. Warriors have the best discs and ac/hp. Shadow Knights, Paladins, Monks, and Rangers all fall somewhere in between those two classes--the raid tank and the paper tank--depending on their gear, skill, and level (spells/abilities available to them).

[zarza]

Enchanter is best tanker in group contents if you geared


1. Very easy to keep aggro with tash
2. Your tanker can use Mez Stun Root Blur Calm Buff etc.
3. Your tanker's DPS is better than rog. (with charm pet)
4. Easy to keep mana with ToT if caster mobs there. + (C2+GoB+FT8+Potg) =48tick





________________
Zarza <Aftermath> https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Zarza

[Oleris]

bard snare+slow and circle kite... great or greatest tank?

[Foxplay]

bard snare+slow and circle kite... great or greatest tank?

Greatest provided nothing that summons gets mixed in....

[Vexenu]

Paladins are similar to Bards and Enchanters in that they have the right tools to cover up other players' mistakes. They do this with their very strong CC in the form of roots and stuns. But at the same time, unlike Bards and Enchanters, they can also heal. Which means they can save your ass when you're one second from taking a dirt nap. Clerics theoretically have the same toolkit, but you can't really play a Cleric aggressively enough to take advantage of all those spells. The Paladin, in contrast, by virtue of being unencumbered with the duty of primary healing, is empowered to use those other nice Cleric spells (stun, root, blind, soothe) much more aggressively. Basically, a good Paladin should be able to take his entire group up a notch. He can turn a mediocre group into a good one, and a good group into a great one, and in a great group a Paladin tank will almost completely trivialize all groupable content. You have instant aggro, stunlocking, rooting, single pulling with soothe, healing, an instant emergency heal, an invuln and a rez. Seriously, with that toolbox at your disposal you can pretty much group with five blind monkeys and still somehow find a way to hold the group together.

Another nice perk of Paladins that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the humble Deepwater Bracer. It's a really amazing item in the right situation. Between it and your normally casted stun you can pretty much totally lock down casters. When I was leveling my Paladin on Red awhile back I was in the low 50s and still wearing mostly Bronze, but managed to snag a Deepwater Bracer. Because of that one item I was able to successfully tank in Chardok for a severely undergeared group. That would literally have been impossible with any other tank because of the constant nuking from all the casters. I mean, it's a 4 second stun with a 6 second cast. You can literally just spam it and the mob is stunlocked 2/3 of the time it's in camp. That's insane, especially in a place like Chardok where you're otherwise getting hit with Ice Comets and gravity fluxes all the time.

And of course, the Deepwater Helm. Mana-free heal something like 700 hp per minute. Not as useful in a full group situation but absolutely amazing in duos/trios, especially when paired with a Shaman or Necro, or when duoing with another melee.

The DW armor set as a whole is a really nice set as far as its clickies go. Definitely one of the top Kunark armor sets, with every piece besides the legs being very useful.

[Xaeophi]

Well..My answer is obvious. Ranger is optimal. Snares, Roots, heals, buffs, dps, snap aggro, if built correctly - tanky. Wont be tanking AoW or anything like that but ill let you know right now you wont see my enchanter in a group with a warrior or monk tanking.
The ench will most likely be :)

[Pint]

Paladin is best class in game, can we just add a note to the starter guide or something so ppl don't have to keep rehashing this

[Troxx]

Taking damage so other group mates don't have to...

Which will take the most damage while getting hit?

Ranger > Bard > Knight > Warrior

Which “tank” has the lowest hp potential?

Ranger = Bard > SK > Paladin (divine buff) >> Warrior

Which tank has the lowest on demand reliable aggro?

Warrior. The rest have enough on demand aggro the differences don’t matter. Having said that I have never struggled with establishing and maintaining/dominating aggro with my warrior.

———————

The rest boils down to utility while tanking that directly improves your ability to strictly tank. Tanking implies a) holding threat b) not dying and c) minimizing the amount of heals and/or improving the efficiency of those healing you.

-Warriors have powerful disciplines. At 60 Evasive has 43% uptime. That’s huge.

-Paladins have an overpowered quick cast HoT (700-825 depending on server ticks). I have a self heal hotkey and can cast and retarget and smack the mob between 2h swings and not miss a beat. Each cast means that much less external healing required. Stuns supplement survivability.

-Bards can have the mob preslowed 35% before it hits camp and has a chance to land that first hit. Regen songs decrease healing required over time.

-SKs can meh self tap some extra AC and cast expensive life taps with mediocre returns on mana spent. 60 lifetap costs the same 225 mana as Paladin HoT and heals 338 vs 700-825 for the paladin. There are also self runes (minor reagent) and spell imbued lifetap procs.

-Rangers can have the lowest tier hp total and the lowest mitigation ... but hey they can always stop attacking, target themselves, and spend nearly 4 seconds and 150 mana to heal themselves for 270! On demand aggro? Heh ... that’s meaningless for 3/4 of the other classes who can easily do that too ... and any high level warrior worth a damn will have the weapons/haste to hold aggro no problemo (while doing more damage than the ranger).


TLDR: ranger worst tank. Fun class? Absolutely. Capable class? You bet! Good tank? No. Gear and player skill equal, they are dead last. As we all know, EQ isn’t hard. Rangers fall well within the “good enough to get the job done range”.

Good enough is not the same thing as best.

[Terrel]

... unlike Bards and Enchanters, they can also heal. Which means they can save your ass when you're one second from taking a dirt nap.

Well...in the one second scenario...ok....3.1 second scenario....bard mez, Cantana, Niv's, mez, Cantana, Niv's...repeat.

Have saved a few groups that way. Heals folks up, and let's the healers get enough mana back to heal the group.

Depending upon mob levels, geography, repops, etc...can keep 3 or 4 mobs locked down while letting group recover.

[Raev]

Enchanter is best tanker in group contents if you geared

https://i.imgur.com/7HCY2BI.jpg

More seriously, I'm with Astuce. It's clearly bard who gets 252 defense, plate armor, infinite manaless snap aggro, and gives the cleric 25-35% mana per tick. I took my bard to 52 mostly as a tank and it's pretty disgustingly good. The only question is whether the bard is more effective as a tank or puller.

One of the most interesting parts of playing on TAKP was chatting to people with different stereotypes. People really overrate pure melee here I think. They are great for raiding, but pretty average while leveling.

[Danth]

More seriously, I'm with Astuce. It's clearly bard who gets 252 defense, plate armor, infinite manaless snap aggro, and gives the cleric 25-35% mana per tick. I took my bard to 52 mostly as a tank and it's pretty disgustingly good. The only question is whether the bard is more effective as a tank or puller.

Mana-less aggro is an advantage that should not be overlooked. Any of the other hybrid classes have to significantly curtail their spellcasting activity in a chain-pulling environment with little or no time to sit, especially if outside mana regeneration is not present.

I surmise part of the problem with Bards might be what I mentioned previous: They're wildly inconsistent in terms of quality, and it's a good bet a lot of folks have rarely or never seen a good one. The gap between a mediocre Bard and a good one is larger than for nearly any other class.

Danth

[enjchanter]

Clicky Symbol 300 hp heal ( can heal forever bc good paladins w DW BP have full bag of jaspers)

Heal Over Time - One of most efficient HoTs out there

Divine Str - Free HP? Yes pls!

Stuns to prevent mobs gating or healing

Undead mastery - Nukes and swords w undead procs

Can bash w epic - more interrupts

Can Res - up to 90% exp returned!

Can split room w lull - (or root)

Ghetto CC aka root

Can heal group while tanking and then notice pet break from corner of eye then casually toss a stun to make ench life easier.

Warrior aint got none of dis.



Sometimes I think about what life would be like if I let Deepwalter be the hero instead of Yxarus ...

Maybe it isnt too late ...

[elwing]

Mana-less aggro is an advantage that should not be overlooked. Any of the other hybrid classes have to significantly curtail their spellcasting activity in a chain-pulling environment with little or no time to sit, especially if outside mana regeneration is not present.



Valid concern... But as a sk, at 10mana a pop for DC, I am mana challenged for lot of things but not for agro... If I just do agro I can tank all the day without med nor C...

[FatherSioux]

I want more tales of Paladins saving the day, best part of this thread by far.

[Cen]

I want more tales of Paladins saving the day, best part of this thread by far.

On that note:

"Why Paladin is the best class"
https://youtu.be/GpSKPq3mTHM

Its not specific P99 but if anyone wants inspiration listen to this guy for 6 minutes

[Raev]

Tanking group content in Classic EverQuest is trivial, therefore the highest dps class with snap aggro, Ranger, wins

So I'm definitely on board with this. If you have an Enchanter, Cleric, and Shaman backing you up, literally any class can tank. Rangers will outdamage all of the other hybrids while still keeping the group smooth.

However, I do feel like it's a bit of a false dilemma: it's an offensively oriented class joining a defensively oriented group. A Paladin would be much happier if the Shaman was swapped for a Mage or Necromancer or just another Rogue. And in general full groups are boring.

What if we cut the Shaman and just go Enchanter/Cleric/Tank? Suddenly this calculation gets a lot more interesting. The Enchanter won't have enough mana to cc, slow every mob, and still charm a boss pet. As far as joining this trio it depends a lot on how critical the splits are. In a tough area, probably SK > MNK > WAR > PAL > BRD > RNG. In an easier area, maybe BRD > PAL > WAR > SK > RNG > MNK.

[aaezil]

lol at people saying ranger

[Crede]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108428

See this in defense of the pally post. Classic.

[Cecily]

Rangers start with a handicap. They’re “dps” with snap agro. If you get enough gear, you’re a pretty good dps medium/light tank with snap agro. Getting to that second point takes a long time and I doubt many have ever played with that type of ranger. Rangers get pretty good.

[Crede]

Rangers start with a handicap. They’re “dps” with snap agro. If you get enough gear, you’re a pretty good dps medium/light tank with snap agro. Getting to that second point takes a long time and I doubt many have ever played with that type of ranger. Rangers get pretty good.

I posted a thread a few months ago: Best class at 60 in all aspects of the game. Ranger won by a long shot.

This is true. Most people aren’t willing to put in the time and effort to get a ranger to where they’re really really good. Getting all the toys like 2 lightning swords isn’t easy unless you’re rich or raid a lot. Same goes for sky cloak and big ac items.

Curious how much better rangers will be with new defense skills next patch.

[Vyrik]

Curious how much better rangers will be with new defense skills next patch.

Probably not much better. Patch notes say defense skill cap is raised by only 20 points or so. So rangers are still pretty far behind the 252+ cap other classes have.

[Jimjam]

Probably not much better. Patch notes say defense skill cap is raised by only 20 points or so. So rangers are still pretty far behind the 252+ cap other classes have.

At the very least it will lower the damage they do through their damage shield, as their avoidance should improve slightly...

That's right! Defence buff is a ranger DPS nerf!! :p

[YendorLootmonkey]

lol at people saying ranger

Lol at people ignoring mob dying faster = less damage taken overall.

[Cecily]

Smiled at that, Jimjam. And dead on, Yendor. We get an atk boost, too, yeah? +dps / +def good patch for us!

[Kefit]

I remember one time I was in HoT on my shaman and a racnar stuck to me like glue after I slowed it. The rest of the raid was busy getting debuffed by a bouncing shimmer drake and/or eaten by a wurm or something, so I just kind of chained torpor and chloroblast for quite a while while the racnar ate me. I didn't even die, though I probably wished I did once I started getting post-shimmer drake tells for buffs.

Also the other week I was in Field of Bone doing AoE slows and tanking for groups at the newbie ramp. Somehow I didn't die doing this either.

Clearly shamans are the best tank.

[Troxx]

Ya Thats one narrow way of looking at it mr blood guard. I was entertained reading what you had to say.. Back to reality.
Now to clear some things up..
How i justify rangers being optimal tanks is this.
1.5 Sec Cast - 10 mana for FU sandwiches to any mob to be #1 on their hate list.
The more reliable that you are at holding that aggro = Faster the Sham/Ench can land the 70%+ slow in so you can literally the enchanter can tank it.

Paladins get a 1.5sec blind and stun. Bards have unlimited free mega-aggro. Sks likewise are aggro magnets on demand. This does not make rangers competitive because they are one of the 4 out of 5 tanks who can do this. It does not make you special in any way other than directly compared to monk/warrior ... and this disparity has already been acknowledged. You're not contributing anything new there.


Due to the ranger being able to maintain high dps without aggro proc weapons, the mob in turn dies faster which means what.. 1) Less damage being taken which = less heals having to be cast . 2) Faster kill times = Less risk of repops and charm breaks per cycle. 3) More kills = more loot.

This made me laugh. Rangers are not high dps. They are capable but pretty middle of the road. I parse everything. Rangers are mediocre raw dps relative to their level of gearing. With velious weapons they are strong dps ... but so are all melee with that level of gearing.

I'm sorry to report that the only rangers who ever consistently out-dps'd my warrior from 51-60 and ongoing at 60 are the one's rocking ToV weapons compared to my aggro tools still falling in the 9/18 to 12/22 range. With comparable weaponry my warrior has consistently been at worst on the ranger level but generally a step above ranger.

Rangers have a dps advantage over bard/pal/sk.

Now can any ranger do this? No.. If hes rocking some crazy str/dex gear then OBVIOUSLY hes going to get teeth knocked in. But if taken just a little bit of time to gear properly ( No you dont need BiS gear for this ) , you can tank any group content just fine.

Nobody has said rangers can't tank group content. In general, they can do it just fine. Deep down at Paebala camp in DN? SG? High end named? When the going get's rough a ranger tank not kitted out in full velious end-game raid gear will be a liability to the healing crew.

Rangers fall into the 'good enough' range ... which for classic eq is just fine. This thread was about "best" ... not "good enough"

Due to the fact that rangers have a 1.5 second cast 10 mana spell that blows any weapon aggro proc out of the water.. Rangers are best for snap aggro.
SKs/Pallys - Yes.. They have this ability too but will most likely suffer from generating enough "white" hate forcing them to cast shit all the time just to hold the aggro.
When i tank stuff. I cast 1 spell. and i won't lose aggro. You cast a slow and it gets resisted? Ya ill still have aggro. You cast another slow and i just cast another 1.5 second 10 second mana spell as your casting the slow and you wont get hit by trying to reslow.

"Best" for aggro is a pointless argument. To be "best" for the threat part of tanking effectively you just need to always have aggro when you need it - higher than your group mates. On demand bards, paladins, and SKs can do this flawlessly on demand. If any of these 4 classes want it they will have it.

As for casting hurting white damage threat component ... 1.5 second cast time. When using my paladin's 45ac 2hander I can get a spell off between swings with 100% haste and not miss a beat. This includes blind, lowest level stun, and even my heal over time. Between swings I can even tab over to the mezzed target, land a stun/blind, and tab back between swings not missing a beat. Even with my 27/29 and shield and 100% haste, barely missed white damage output.

Why do you think warriors are never wanted in fungi king groups? Theyre not optimal for the situation.. Theyre just almost as bad as monks for snap aggro and they cant pull. Just grab the monk and have 1 less person rolling.

I've received tells from the other side of the world asking if I wanted to come tank king on my warrior. In that scenario, though, they'd rather not have the ranger to similarly have one less person to roll. They'd rather just let the monk tank (who also will "tank" better than rangers when being actively hit. The only reason I'd want a ranger in the king group is for snares ... not for tanking.

Understanding the logic? :)

You're still ignoring the fact that there are 3 other classes with on demand easy aggro that soak damage better than you.

Rangers:
-fun class
-plenty of strong general utility
-not good defensively compared to real tanks
-slightly less good defensively compared to bard tanks
-middle of the pack damage output (below monk/rog/mage/necro/warrior)
-better damage output than bards/knights
-not a lot of defensive spell casting utility
-on demand aggro comparable to 2/3 of the "real tanks" and the other pseudo-tank bard

[Cecily]

Yeah but have you considered:


Class Titles

Level 1-50 Level 51-54 Level 55-59 Level 60 Ranger Pathfinder Outrider Warder Creation Guide

Picking the Right Race

The first thing you have to pick then is your race. Which race you pick will determine the foundation of you character for the rest of your life in Norrath so it is kind of important you pick one you like.
Wood Elves are quite a good race for rangers. They have naturally high agility, and can wear both small and medium armour. They also start with the ability to forage, which can help save a lot of funds at low levels, although all rangers get this skill later in life. Wood Elves also have natural infravision, and start in the tree city of Kelethin.
Half-Elves are limited to medium sized armour. They are very well balanced, and have slightly better starting stats than the wood elf, though they lack some of the natural abilities. They have the highest natural dexterity of any ranger race, and also have infravision. However, the druid part of a ranger is let down with a low natural wisdom. Half Elves start in Surefall Glade near Qeynos.
Human rangers have very balanced stats, across the board. They have the highest natural strength of any ranger race, and all other stats are certainly in an acceptable range. However their natural agility is quite low compared to the other classes. Humans have no night vision, which is perhaps the largest reason that many people decide against playing a Human Ranger. Rangers do however receive an infravision spell at level 30, and an ultravision spell at level 56. Human rangers start in Qeynos.
All of the ranger races level at the same rate, and faction wise are all well received in any town with a neutral or good alignment.
https://wiki.project1999.com/images/Ranger-stats.png (https://wiki.project1999.com/File:Ranger-stats.png)
Spending Your Bonus Points

Rangers have to keep in mind that even though Stamina gives more hit points it is not a huge amount. It is certainly not going to be enough to make any significant difference between life and death; even at higher levels 10 extra points in Stamina only give 20-30 extra hit points. Also, while Agility increases armour class, the amount is very minimal (for reference - at level 38 with 190 points in the Defense skill, a +18 Agility buff raises AC by four points). Rangers are very different to the Shadowknight and Paladin hybrids. Like a Rogue, they are a lightly armoured offensive class, and may wish to focus on this offensive side rather than attempting to buffer a defensive ability they will never match the other hybrids in. With this in mind here are some suggested starting statistics:


Half Elf: Add 20 Strength.
Human: Add 15 Strength, 5 Dexterity
Wood Elf: Add 20 Strength.

Keep in mind that there is not a total consensus on these numbers. If in doubt, find other rangers and ask them what their suggestions are.
(This section needs a realistic/modern update for p1999.)
Experience Statistics

Class experience penalties are no longer in effect on P99 as of 9/21/15 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211758). And since none of the races with an experience penalty can play a Ranger, no matter what race you pick, your ranger will not have an experience penalty no matter what.
Religion

Religion does not have a large impact upon the Ranger class. The two choices are Karana or Tunare (except for Wood Elves who must choose Tunare). Picking one will not alienate you from another, although only followers of Tunare can equip the Helm of the Tracker (https://wiki.project1999.com/Helm_of_the_Tracker). Choose whichever appeals to you more.
Spells

Alternative Spell List (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ranger/Spells)
Level 9

Spell Name Spell Description Era Class Location Mana Endure Fire (https://wiki.project1999.com/Endure_Fire) Fire Resist Buff Abj. Vendor. 20 Flame Lick (https://wiki.project1999.com/Flame_Lick) Fire Based DoT Spell with AC Debuff Evo. Vendor. 10 Glimpse (https://wiki.project1999.com/Glimpse) Zoom Vision Div. Vendor. 5 Lull Animal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lull_Animal) Aggression Range Debuff vs Animals Alt. Vendor. 10 Minor Healing (https://wiki.project1999.com/Minor_Healing) Healing Spell Alt. Vendor. 10 Skin Like Wood (https://wiki.project1999.com/Skin_Like_Wood) AC and Max HP Buff Abj. Vendor. 10 Snare (https://wiki.project1999.com/Snare) Movement Speed Debuff Alt. Vendor. 15 Level 15

Spell Name Spell Description Era Class Location Mana Burst of Fire (https://wiki.project1999.com/Burst_of_Fire) Single Target Fire Damage (Max: 15) Evo. Vendor. 15 Camouflage (https://wiki.project1999.com/Camouflage) Invisibility Buff (works outdoor only) Div. Vendor. 15 Cure Poison (https://wiki.project1999.com/Cure_Poison) Cures Poison Alt. Vendor. 20 Dance of the Fireflies (https://wiki.project1999.com/Dance_of_the_Fireflies) Summon Temporary Item "Firefly Globe" Con. Vendor. 10 Feet like Cat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Feet_like_Cat) Agility Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Grasping Roots (https://wiki.project1999.com/Grasping_Roots) Root with Magic Based DD Spell Alt. Vendor. 35 Invoke Lightning (https://wiki.project1999.com/Invoke_Lightning) AOE Magic Damage (Max: 25) Evo. Vendor. 32 Thistlecoat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Thistlecoat) AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 25 Level 22



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Bind Sight (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bind_Sight) Bind Vision with Target Div. Vendor. 15 Endure Cold (https://wiki.project1999.com/Endure_Cold) Cold Resist Buff Vel. Abj. Vendor. 20 Enduring Breath (https://wiki.project1999.com/Enduring_Breath) Underwater Breathing Buff Alt. Vendor. 35 Firefist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Firefist) ATK Buff (self only) Vel. Evo. Vendor. 30 Harmony (https://wiki.project1999.com/Harmony) AoE Aggression Debuff Alt. Vendor. 25 Ignite (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ignite) Single Target Fire Damage (Max: 37) Evo. Vendor. 30 Light Healing (https://wiki.project1999.com/Light_Healing) Healing Spell (Max: 33) Alt. Vendor. 25 Panic Animal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Panic_Animal) Fear Debuff vs Animals Vel. Alt. Vendor. 10 Skin Like Rock (https://wiki.project1999.com/Skin_Like_Rock) AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Abj. Vendor. 60 Ward Summoned (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ward_Summoned) Single Target Magic Damage vs Summoned (Max: 41) Evo. Vendor. 30 Level 30



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Barbcoat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Barbcoat) AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 50 Cancel Magic (https://wiki.project1999.com/Cancel_Magic) Buff Removal Spell Abj. Vendor. 30 Eyes of the Cat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Eyes_of_the_Cat) Infravision Buff (self only) Div. Vendor. 35 Invigor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Invigor) Short Duration Endurance Regen Buff Alt. Vendor. 20 Shield of Thistles (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_Thistles) Damage Shield Buff Abj. Vendor. 40 Stinging Swarm (https://wiki.project1999.com/Stinging_Swarm) Magic Based DoT Spell Con. Vendor. 65 Strength of Earth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Strength_of_Earth) Strength Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Spirit of Wolf (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spirit_of_Wolf) Movement Speed Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Level 39



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Bramblecoat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bramblecoat) AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 75 Call of Sky (https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_Sky) Enchant Weapon with Stun and Damage proc (self only) Vel. Alt. Vendor. 50 Calm Animal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Calm_Animal) Aggression Range Debuff vs Animals Alt. Vendor. 45 Careless Lightning (https://wiki.project1999.com/Careless_Lightning) Magic Based DD Spell Evo. Vendor. 70 Dismiss Summoned (https://wiki.project1999.com/Dismiss_Summoned) Magic Based DD Spell vs Summoned Evo. Vendor. 90 Healing (https://wiki.project1999.com/Healing) Healing Spell Alt. Vendor. 60 Levitate (https://wiki.project1999.com/Levitate) Levitate Buff Alt. Vendor. 30 See Invisible (https://wiki.project1999.com/See_Invisible) See invisible players/creatures Alt. Vendor. ? Skin Like Steel (https://wiki.project1999.com/Skin_Like_Steel) AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Abj. Vendor. 100 Level 49



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Flame (https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_Flame) Fire Based DD Spell Evo. Quest. 125 Ensnaring Roots (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ensnaring_Roots) Root with Magic Based DD Spell Alt. Vendor. 60 Immolate (https://wiki.project1999.com/Immolate) Fire Based DoT Spell with AC Debuff Evo. Vendor. 120 Resist Fire (https://wiki.project1999.com/Resist_Fire) Fire Resist Buff Abj. Vendor. 50 Shield of Brambles (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_Brambles) Damage Shield Buff Abj. Vendor. 80 Spikecoat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spikecoat) Self Only AC and Damage shield Abj. Butcher. 110 Superior Camouflage (https://wiki.project1999.com/Superior_Camouflage) Invisibility Buff (works both outdoor and indoor) Div. Vendor. 40 Wolf Form (https://wiki.project1999.com/Wolf_Form) Turn into a wolf with Movement Speed and ATK Buff (self only) Alt. Vendor. 60 Level 50



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Earth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_Earth) Long Duration AC and Damage Shield Buff Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 50 Level 51



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Ensnare (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ensnare) Movement Speed Debuff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 35 Jolt (https://wiki.project1999.com/Jolt) Magic Based Hate Reducer Kun. Alt. Firiona Vie. 60 Strength of Nature (https://wiki.project1999.com/Strength_of_Nature) ATK and Max HP Buff Vel. Abj. Kelethin. 125 Level 52



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Extinguish Fatigue (https://wiki.project1999.com/Extinguish_Fatigue) Restore Endurance Kun. Alt. Vendor. 35 Firestrike (https://wiki.project1999.com/Firestrike) Fire Based DD Spell Kun. Evo. Vendor. 155 Level 53



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Storm Strength (https://wiki.project1999.com/Storm_Strength) STR Buff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 85 Level 54



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Drones of Doom (https://wiki.project1999.com/Drones_of_Doom) Magic Based DoT Spell Kun. Con. Vendor. 141 Skin Like Diamond (https://wiki.project1999.com/Skin_Like_Diamond) AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Kun. Abj. Vendor. 200 Level 55



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Fire (https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_Fire) Enchant Weapon with Damage proc (self only) Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 50 Chloroplast (https://wiki.project1999.com/Chloroplast) HP Regen Buff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 200 Cinder Jolt (https://wiki.project1999.com/Cinder_Jolt) Fire Based Hate Reducer Vel. Alt. E. Com. 60 Resist Cold (https://wiki.project1999.com/Resist_Cold) Cold Resist Buff Vel. Abj. Vendor. 50 Level 56



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Chill Sight (https://wiki.project1999.com/Chill_Sight) Ultravision Buff (self only) Kun. Div. Vendor. 75 Greater Wolf Form (https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Wolf_Form) Turn into a wolf With Movement Speed and ATK Buff (self only) Kun. Alt. Vendor. 90 Level 57



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Greater Healing (https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Healing) Healing Spell Kun. Alt. Vendor. 150 Level 58



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Nullify Magic (https://wiki.project1999.com/Nullify_Magic) Buff Removal Spell Kun. Abj. Vendor. 50 Shield of Spikes (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_Spikes) Damage Shield Buff Kun. Abj. Vendor. 100 Level 59



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Calefaction (https://wiki.project1999.com/Calefaction) Fire Based DD Spell Kun. Evo. Firiona Vie. 250 Skin Like Nature (https://wiki.project1999.com/Skin_Like_Nature) AC and Max HP and HP Regen Buff with Healing Spell Kun. Evo. Lavastorm. 300 Level 60



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of the Predator (https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_the_Predator) Group ATK Buff Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 200 Enveloping Roots (https://wiki.project1999.com/Enveloping_Roots) Root with Magic Based DD Spell Kun. Alt. Vendor. 80 Thorncoat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Thorncoat) AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Kun. Abj. Vendor. 175 Skills

Combat Skills

Level Trained Skill Cap Until 50 Cap Above 50 1 No 1 Hand Blunt (https://wiki.project1999.com/1_Hand_Blunt) 200 250 1 No 1 Hand Slashing (https://wiki.project1999.com/1_Hand_Slashing) 200 250 1 No 2 Hand Blunt (https://wiki.project1999.com/2_Hand_Blunt) 200 245 1 No 2 Hand Slashing (https://wiki.project1999.com/2_Hand_Slashing) 200 240 1 No Archery (https://wiki.project1999.com/Archery) 210 240 1 No Bind Wound (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bind_Wound) 100

[Legidias]

Dat BW 100 tho

[YendorLootmonkey]

I'm sorry to report that the only rangers who ever consistently out-dps'd my warrior from 51-60 and ongoing at 60 are the one's rocking ToV weapons compared to my aggro tools still falling in the 9/18 to 12/22 range. With comparable weaponry my warrior has consistently been at worst on the ranger level but generally a step above ranger.

Rangers were most likely holding back on DPS because they wanted your warrior to keep aggro without wasting mana on Jolt. ;)

Is it just me or are you comparing your warrior when you want to talk about DPS, but then when you're talking about holding aggro, you switch to comparing your paladin?

So, to summarize your post:

Snap Aggro whenever they want it:
Ranger: Yes
Paladin: Yes
Warrior: No, unless you're burning clickies in a group

Mobs Die More Quickly, so less incoming damage:
Ranger: Yes
Paladin: No
Warrior: Yes

Got it.

[Legidias]

Ranger raid DPS is entirely based on getting a BFG and using disc to get on dat leaderboard

[YendorLootmonkey]

Just get a group together, and define typical equipment for a level 60 ranger and warrior. Epics? Full HoT armor? No ST/NTOV gear? I don't know... figure the "typical equipment" out for someone you'd find doing standard group content.

Then put the ranger in a balanced group that can heal, slow, DPS, and provide crowd control. Pull mobs and parse, stop when the ranger dies due to lack of healer mana. Measure how much total damage the mobs did to the ranger, how much total damage the mobs did to the rest of the group, and how many mobs they were able to kill.

Swap out with the warrior and run the experiment again. Do again for bard and paladin.

Post results. I'd be interested to see without subjective speculation who the most ideal group tank is. Based on aggro and healing ability I think the paladin wins in this scenario, actually.

[Xaeophi]

Paladins are kinda cool for charm breaks in plane of growth. Pair a paladin up with every ench with a pet. GG.

[enjchanter]

I just cant wait till warriors get double attack, gunna be dope

[gkmarino]

I just cant wait till warriors get double attack, gunna be dopeYeah really sick of not having double attack at level 60. I guess will have to settle with triple.

[Troxx]

Rangers were most likely holding back on DPS because they wanted your warrior to keep aggro without wasting mana on Jolt. ;)

No, rangers are just mediocre dps. I parse groups. I parse raids. Rangers are just not that good at dps. Great class, but not stellar dps. DPS for ranger is solidly middle of the road.

Is it just me or are you comparing your warrior when you want to talk about DPS, but then when you're talking about holding aggro, you switch to comparing your paladin?

No. Rangers have snap aggro. Warriors do not. My warrior has plenty of 'non-snap' or 'on demand' aggro over time. Rangers do not threaten my warrior's aggro over time but they do have an initial advantage. Ranger threat vs knight/bard threat is a wash. Any of those classes can have it if they want it and all TANK better than rangers.

This isn't a ranger hate thread. I love the ranger class. They just are not good tanks. They are "good enough".

[YendorLootmonkey]

No, rangers are just mediocre dps. I parse groups. I parse raids. Rangers are just not that good at dps. Great class, but not stellar dps. DPS for ranger is solidly middle of the road.

Olay, but are you parsing a bunch of rangers walking on eggshells trying not to take aggro away from a warrior and fucking the entire raid, or are you parsing rangers purposely tanking things and throwing caution to the wind?

Alleriah, are you going balls to the wall DPS when you're not Trueshotting on raids? I know I turned off auto-attack every now and then to make sure I didn't out-aggro the MT.

[Troxx]

Olay, but are you parsing a bunch of rangers walking on eggshells trying not to take aggro away from a warrior and fucking the entire raid, or are you parsing rangers purposely tanking things and throwing caution to the wind?

You talk about rangers as if they are some latent dps god class only held back by tanks that can't hold aggro. Sorry, that's not the case. Will the ranger 'holding back' toss in a few nukes that are barely better than keeping autoattack un-interrupted?

Rangers are "ok" dps in the same way that they are "good enough" tanks.

/shrug

[BlownAway]

lol

[Xaeophi]

Glad you understood. Not sure how/why this other guy doesnt.
it kind of reminds me of someone who tried to make a ranger in the past. Threw on a bunch of str/dex gear and had a miserable experience.

For someone to say rangers are just okay dps is proof enough that
1- This guy obviously doesn't parse in groups.
2 - This guy obviously doesn't parse in raids.

Oh.. Why do i make this claim? when my parse is next to rogues, or sometimes exceeding that of a rogue in a group.. I consider that decent dps for also having the capabilities listed in previous posts.

Okay well what about raids.. Well... Rogues should be #1 and they usually are. Rangers for the most part will be above every other melee class. If you think monks beat rangers then im sorry to break the news to you and reveal that they dont... unless santa gave all the p99 monks Gharns last Christmas monk dps is mediocre as shit.

[Xaeophi]

My advice to you, stick to setting records for long duration Lodizal Kitesstalls and whatever else is in your capabilities. You can either accept the reality that rangers shit on just about every melee class (on average) besides rogues OR you can keep finding new ways to sound incompetent on the forums. Nothing personal.

Have a great evening and best wishes on your lodizal kites.

[Troxx]

Lol

[Ennewi]

Wave of Healing. Underused because of the high mana cost, but its low cast-time is a lifesaver when sub-59 ... Wave of Healing also has the potential to heal +1500hp across the board, assuming full group

Correction: 1,320hp in total, potentially. The project1999 wiki had Wave of Healing at 270hp per player when in fact it is 220hp.

[Troxx]

Wave of healing being capped at 220/target is not a very good heal. Situationally useful, but not efficient.

[Ennewi]

Wave of healing being capped at 220/target is not a very good heal. Situationally useful, but not efficient.

True. It's hard to make it mana-efficient and in a lot of groups that opportunity won't present itself. However, in the majority of those same groups, mana is continuously streaming in from multiple sources. Depending on CC resists and how fast group member hp is dropping, other heals can be inferior given their cast time--a split second too late and the blue spell particles just highlight that reality and the group member's corpse. If LoH is on cooldown or the dying are out of its range, there really isn't a better option afaik other than a SoulFire (or Celestial Cleansing when available).

Wave of Healing is best for "oh shit" moments that initially don't seem shitty enough to warrant using Lay on Hands or SF charges. Personally, I prefer to wait and see how things develop in camp before blowing my LoH, especially in groups with multiple forms of healing, heals that usually are enough, if not more than enough, even when chain pulling. But with the Druid/Shaman casting Greater or Superior Heal, I often wondered, why do the same as a Paladin (unless time is not an issue)? More diversity with heals and other spells in general helps out a ton. The Bard hymns. The Shaman torpors. The Necromancer patches. And then the Cleric finishes CH. Without those other, weaker heals, the dying player usually still has a few ways to buy themselves time, but not a great deal of time. So any mana lost is worth it if the xp continues, more so if the heal keeps a caster alive since they would be oom after rez.

Wave of Healing's faster cast also means not leaving oneself as open to being interrupted by the current target's attacks. Used sparingly, it can keep a dying member alive for a few more hits until better heals finally land, while topping off the rest of the party. Sometimes I have such an overabundance of mana regen that I look for moments when all or even as few as three members have at least a bubble of red missing from their bar. It's a good way to break up the autopilot mode that can set in when grouped with quality players that know the ins and outs of the zone and their class.

Once Celestial Cleansing is memorized, there are fewer reasons to keep Wave of Healing loaded in place of another spell. But even then, it's still good for places like Halls of Testing, to keep DPS from getting below the low hp aggro threshold, or Kael arena when everyone suddenly gets turned on at the end of a fight.

Agreed though, the spell could/should be better overall, but the same goes for most hybrid spells and abilities. However, finding their worth and making due with what's available can be fun, even when it's frustrating.

[fadetree]

Ya Thats one narrow way of looking at it mr blood guard. I was entertained reading what you had to say.. Back to reality.
Now to clear some things up..
How i justify rangers being optimal tanks is this....
{long post redacted}

Well, so look,I'm always pro-ranger but it's true that they really aren't best choice for group tanking past say 45-50 or so. Before that, they kick ass but so do a lot of other classes. Notably, warriors kind of suck at this range.
I always saw myself as an off tank/root parker. My main job is to protect the robes, DPS is what I do otherwise. Peel angry mobs off of them quickly and root or ranger mezz or kite depending on situation. That's where we shine the most, in my opinion.