AC vs HP (enchanter solo solutions)

[Whythewhy]

Hello everybody,

i am sorry in advance if this subject has been discust in the past but i didn't find
a proper answer to that theoretical question about the importance of the AC stats due
to his many melee hit situation encountered by a soloing enchanter.

I had this question in mind since severals months but i didn't saw the point to write a thread just for this item :

https://wiki.project1999.com/Belt_of_Inconsistency
VS
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bone-Clasped_Girdle

The + 11 AC is worth +7 sta and +5 hp ?

But, after the chardok revamp and the apparition of this item :
https://wiki.project1999.com/Hammered_Golden_Loop

It might be the dream earing for any soloing enchanter hp wise. and IT'S NOT LORE !

My quesiton is simple, that -15 AC is relevant or not ?
How can we translate that -15 AC in hp ?
Should i buy the belt of Inconsistency to minimize the AC lost.
(Originally, i really wanted to buy the Bone-Clapsed Girdle to have the possibility to not throw 90k away if i have better in the futur, sell it. (the costs values of these item are very close)

If that AC lost is a problem, the alternatives to this earring are :
https://wiki.project1999.com/Pearly_Sarnak_Bangle
https://wiki.project1999.com/Earring_of_Blazing_Energy
https://wiki.project1999.com/Inlaid_Jade_Hoop

But we are very far away of the huge hp pool that hammered golden loop is offering.
And what i am looking for :) I am speaking about hp focus priority.
I have 3k mana and that's all i need for the moment.

Thanks in avance for your enlightenment :)

Peace.

Why

[Baylan295]

Hello everybody,

i am sorry in advance if this subject has been discust in the past but i didn't find
a proper answer to that theoretical question about the importance of the AC stats due
to his many melee hit situation encountered by a soloing enchanter.

I had this question in mind since severals months but i didn't saw the point to write a thread just for this item :

https://wiki.project1999.com/Belt_of_Inconsistency
VS
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bone-Clasped_Girdle

The + 11 AC is worth +7 sta and +5 hp ?

But, after the chardok revamp and the apparition of this item :
https://wiki.project1999.com/Hammered_Golden_Loop

It might be the dream earing for any soloing enchanter hp wise. and IT'S NOT LORE !

My quesiton is simple, that -15 AC is relevant or not ?
How can we translate that -15 AC in hp ?
Should i buy the belt of Inconsistency to minimize the AC lost.
(Originally, i really wanted to buy the Bone-Clapsed Girdle to have the possibility to not throw 90k away if i have better in the futur, sell it. (the costs values of these item are very close)

If that AC lost is a problem, the alternatives to this earring are :
https://wiki.project1999.com/Pearly_Sarnak_Bangle
https://wiki.project1999.com/Earring_of_Blazing_Energy
https://wiki.project1999.com/Inlaid_Jade_Hoop

But we are very far away of the huge hp pool that hammered golden loop is offering.
And what i am looking for :) I am speaking about hp focus priority.
I have 3k mana and that's all i need for the moment.

Thanks in avance for your enlightenment :)

Peace.

Why

I have a 60 enc that is pretty well geared (I have about 5-6 BIS or arguably BIS items). I do not have that earring, in part because I’m unwilling to pay for something thay I will be able to farm myself someday, and in part because in my hierarchy of stats, mana and HP are almost equally important at this point. I raid on my enc, and my desire for even numbers now has me reaching to get to 4K/4K when I’m raid buffed.

In the HP vs AC analysis, I personally come down in favor of HP. Enchanters have crap mitigation, so unless your enchanter is getting many high end NToV drops, AC will have a marginal but not game-changing effect on your gameplay. On the other hand, I’ve had several instances where I stabilize with 5-10-15% HP. So, for me anyway, AC is never a concern.

[commongood]

I have a 60 enc that is pretty well geared (I have about 5-6 BIS or arguably BIS items). I do not have that earring, in part because I’m unwilling to pay for something thay I will be able to farm myself someday, and in part because in my hierarchy of stats, mana and HP are almost equally important at this point. I raid on my enc, and my desire for even numbers now has me reaching to get to 4K/4K when I’m raid buffed.

In the HP vs AC analysis, I personally come down in favor of HP. Enchanters have crap mitigation, so unless your enchanter is getting many high end NToV drops, AC will have a marginal but not game-changing effect on your gameplay. On the other hand, I’ve had several instances where I stabilize with 5-10-15% HP. So, for me anyway, AC is never a concern.

Sorry to split hairs, but if higher AC means getting hit fewer times or for lower amounts then that will also mitigate your HP loss and might also let you stabilize on low HP, if you take my meaning. It's just hard to know exactly how it works with AC. HP on the other hand is extremely intuitive to understand.

I'm totally in the dark as to how exactly AC benefits a purecaster and at what increments so I don't know if AC is at all worth focusing on. But I guess that's also what the OP is asking.

If I have an extra 500hp. And a mob hits for 100. That's an extra 5 times I can get hit. If I have an extra 100AC and a mob hits for 100... well fuck I don't know at all what that means for my expected damage taken :)

[Baylan295]

Sorry to split hairs, but if higher AC means getting hit fewer times or for lower amounts then that will also mitigate your HP loss and might also let you stabilize on low HP, if you take my meaning. It's just hard to know exactly how it works with AC. HP on the other hand is extremely intuitive to understand.

I'm totally in the dark as to how exactly AC benefits a purecaster and at what increments so I don't know if AC is at all worth focusing on. But I guess that's also what the OP is asking.

If I have an extra 500hp. And a mob hits for 100. That's an extra 5 times I can get hit. If I have an extra 100AC and a mob hits for 100... well fuck I don't know at all what that means for my expected damage taken :)

Oh, I don’t disagree at all. I think that fundamentally, casters get hit for max value a lot unless you are at the upper stretches of gear (Zarza, for example, likely has a different experience). It’s also extremely hard to test because it requires a clothie getting beat on for a while.

My guess (and that’s all it is) is that max HP helps more. It also helps prevent low HP agro, which is a huge issue in raid or group environments (but is irrelevant for solo play). While AC mitigation is useful in the long run, enchanters are usually at risk in edge scenarios, and HP helps more in those scenarios IMO.

I’m really open to other arguments, but fundamentally there aren’t many gear paths that result in high AC for enchanters.

[Pint]

Baylan is right, unless you are raid gearing the enchanter you will never be able to prioritize ac in a way that is more meaningful then hp

[commongood]

This is great, but anecdotal evidence. If I understand you correctly you would need a very high amount of AC (or, perhaps, to break through a cap of some sorts) in order to actually gain anything meaningful as a purecaster?

But would anyone happen to know of hard facts as to how AC contributes exactly to avoidance and dmg mitigation for purecasters? :)

[enjchanter]

You're going to get 3-4 different opinions on this topic and it's going to be trumped by the fact that It really doesnt matter. It wont be long before Alleriah chimes in saying an enchanter can solo aow with a glamour rod and bone caster robe

OP, if you're managing to solo meaningful stuff with 3k mana and wanna focus on hp or ac then by all means do it because it's working for you. Enchanter is a skill based class and it's just a moot point.
I think a balance of HP / Mana and to a lower degree AC is good.

[Whythewhy]

Interesting. Thanks you all for sharing your opinions.

In resume, we can't see the difference if we dont have a large amount of AC. In total.
Well, it's a good point. I have a solo stuff so i guess that the earing or the belt won't change anything and it might be better to focus on hp pool.

About the 3k mana thing, i precised " for the moment ". I solo Sebilis and Velk mostly.
The harder target i killed it's the epic target and it's more based on wand of allure reflexes than take hit and keep going on.

Well, i will farm these earings, finish my solo stuff et see the results with that hp pool.

[Baylan295]

You're going to get 3-4 different opinions on this topic and it's going to be trumped by the fact that It really doesnt matter. It wont be long before Alleriah chimes in saying an enchanter can solo aow with a glamour rod and bone caster robe

OP, if you're managing to solo meaningful stuff with 3k mana and wanna focus on hp or ac then by all means do it because it's working for you. Enchanter is a skill based class and it's just a moot point.
I think a balance of HP / Mana and to a lower degree AC is good.

To Eberron’s point, better gear on an enchanter just widens the margin for error. It doesn’t make the impossible possible.

[Kintronics]

To Eberron’s point, better gear on an enchanter just widens the margin for error. It doesn’t make the impossible possible.

Absolutely 100% agree with this. On consecutive charm breaks where you don't even have time to re-rune yourself - having more HP definitely helps. It will not make the impossible possible, and conversely an enchanter with glamour rod and bonecaster's can certainly do any content a raid geared enchanter can.

[Whythewhy]

That's exactly what i wanted to talk about. Of course skill > all but i have almost 2k hp atm. Apparently, a enchanter with good end game gear has between 3k and 4k hp.
It's not game changing but it's help a lot when charm breaks.

My AC > HP question was more oriented in this way.

[enjchanter]

Should clarify, is that 2k with aegolism ? With raid buffs? Self buffs ?

[Baylan295]

Should clarify, is that 2k with aegolism ? With raid buffs? Self buffs ?

Baylan is at 2012/3790 with self buffs with his normal kit.

Aego/Sta/PE/DS gets me pretty comfortable. But I’m hardly a Zarza with 4200+ HP.

It’s a goal to hit 4K/4K with raid buffs, which means I need to get to 2034(?) unburied. A long ways to go to get there.

[enjchanter]

To be fair, zarza is willing to swap sets of gear in and out to achieve maximum results.

I'm of the opinion that a balanced generalist approach is way to go but I think 4k/ 4k is a great goal. I personally dont like to factor in raid buffs into my stats too much because I dont raid on my enchanter so self buffed is more important to me.

Baylan knows how I feel on enchanter things


Ps: Gratz Baylan on FT5 , so glad you got EoN finally :)

[Baylan295]

To be fair, zarza is willing to swap sets of gear in and out to achieve maximum results.

I'm of the opinion that a balanced generalist approach is way to go but I think 4k/ 4k is a great goal. I personally dont like to factor in raid buffs into my stats too much because I dont raid on my enchanter so self buffed is more important to me.

Baylan knows how I feel on enchanter things


Ps: Gratz Baylan on FT5 , so glad you got EoN finally :)

My long goal was to hit 2k hp self buffed. Then it was 2k/4K (not quite there...). 4K/4K is the load goal. I’ve got a ways to go to get there, but I’ve been looking at different gear paths to get there.

The closest I’ve found so far is: Ring 10, Hate Crystal, PoM Robe, Falinkan.

Will still need another big HP upgrade, but that would give me roughly 170 more mana and get me very close to 4K mana without a ToV drop.

Maybe I’ll get a Yeli head and that’ll solve all my problems!

[DMN]

I put a premium on hitpoints for all my casters back in the day since all that matters usually is not dying. AC may reduce a small amount of damage( and be more efficient over a long period of time), but I highly doubt it reduces enough to make up for a similar quality HP item when going from full health down to zero HP in a short burst of damage. And AC does nothing to mitigate spell damage.

[Sacer]

It's pretty subjective but from my personal experience AC matter a lot more on lower level mobs, like the closer to green the bigger impact, I feel like a red is gonna destroy you no matter your armor class.

For that reason I find HP way more reliable, and anyway if you aim at NToV gear and such you will get both high AC/HP.

[Phenyo]

To Eberron’s point, better gear on an enchanter just widens the margin for error. It doesn’t make the impossible possible.

[Foxplay]

To Eberron’s point, better gear on an enchanter just widens the margin for error. It doesn’t make the impossible possible.

Pretty much this...

Everyone likes having good gear

But if you cant stun properly, or your reaction speed is derpy slow, or you don't know how to switch out spells and mez properly then all that extra hp / ac is buying you a few extra rounds of combat that you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place

[Solist]

I put a premium on hitpoints for all my casters back in the day since all that matters usually is not dying. AC may reduce a small amount of damage( and be more efficient over a long period of time), but I highly doubt it reduces enough to make up for a similar quality HP item when going from full health down to zero HP in a short burst of damage. And AC does nothing to mitigate spell damage.

AC now is significantly more valuable than any ‘back in the day’ anecdotes. It actually works. Those -15ac earrings are almost exclusively a rogue/bard item.

[DMN]

AC now is significantly more valuable than any ‘back in the day’ anecdotes. It actually works. Those -15ac earrings are almost exclusively a rogue/bard item.

And your proof is?

[Siberious]

And your proof is?

He said so, it must be true!

[Tecmos Deception]

Re: AC vs. HP: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2869194&postcount=21

Granted, it's from 2012, but from what I can see, y'all are just bickering about what you remember from 20 years ago vs what "your experience" of anecdotes here is. So it's probably better than that, at least.

To Eberron’s point, better gear on an enchanter just widens the margin for error. It doesn’t make the impossible possible.

Though on a related note, what's possible for an enchanter usually possible even while naked! Or at least with a stack of dots and a cheap telescope clicky you had in your bank for a rainy day, lol.

[kjs86z]

HP > Mana > AC


/thread

[Izmael]

Looks > HP > Mana > AC


/thread


FYP

[kjs86z]

FYP

why thank you! 100% accurate

[Hibbs]

Im just here trying to replace my Crud stein haha

[Baylan295]

Im just here trying to replace my Crud stein haha

Skyshrine drops and an orb of the infinite void. Boom

[Hibbs]

Skyshrine drops and an orb of the infinite void. Boom

Thanks man! I've had my eye on orb for awhile. would be a pretty nutty upgrade lol