Which Tank for the indoor dungeon leveling experience?

[Keebz]

I'm looking to roll tank to level up mostly in indoor dungeons, but can't decide which. I currently main a Bard (lvl 52 atm) and am looking for the opposite leveling experience.

It should also be noted that

I am pretty broke and only have ~3k or so to throw at this character for the time being.
I can raid on my bard and am generally a filthy casual


I've narrowed down to the following class/race combos, presented with pros/cons below. I'm pretty locked in on my race choices, fwiw.

Ogre SK
Pros

Invis/IVU/FD means I can get around dungeons easily
FSI/Slam
Great tank stats
Snap aggro
Can solo if necessary

Cons

20% xp pen (Ogre)
Meh DPS
No raid tanking
Large size may be annoying in dungeons
Meh fashionquest


Halfling War
Pros

Best DPS
+15% exp bonus
Hide/Sneak will provide some utility
Halfling Warriors are cool
Being small will be nice for tight dungeons
Could raid tank if I wanted to

Cons

Even more gear dependent
Has to get aggro through procs
Can't solo given I can't really twink
Can't carry a group like the others


High Elf Pal
Pros

CC utility is cool
Stuns great for casters mobs often found in dunegons
Fashionquest on point
Cheap gear
Snap aggro
Can solo if necessary (kinda)
Being small will be nice for tight dungeons

Cons

Worst tank stats by far
Worst DPS
No raid tanking
Have to buff people, which is a drag
No Slam


I really like the idea of Hafling Warrior, but I'm afraid I'll be a bit bored and totally dependent on others. With SK and PAL, I'm afraid of the slower leveling and low dps. The awful melee stats also discourage me from rolling PAL.

What would you choose if you were me? Thank you in advance!

P.S. Let's not start another Monk thread, thanks.

[Jauna]

The only thing I hate about my ogre SK is how bored I get sometimes knowing I click a few spells and everything is mine and snare FD pulling makes it so not much mana is spent. I was nothing but the fast track to 60 for so many people over the years and I did it to myself.

also dwarf pal
and ogre/troll/barb war. slam is gigantic for warriors at all levels. bash(slam) is a higher skillcap than kick all the time every time
also invest in ant potions. 250p for a 10 dose sounds harsh but loot a little more fine steel crap as you go, very few will complain. 25p a click is 4-5 fine steel weps, a few ears, a couple belts and what have you. my dwarf pal/ogre sk with some WR bags was able to carry quite a bit.
also one last thing, you are not nearly as dependent on procs as you think, fights 1-50ish dont last that long for procs to matter, get yourself a wurmslayer and 1h lammy or a staff of battle, if other people out agro you just roll with it

[Legidias]

You cant hold aggro for shit at low level as a warrior. If you really, really, really, want to be a tank specialist you'll want to be knight for that early on aggro spell.

Incidentally, SK and PAL can raid tank, just not the big boi mobs that require discs. I can tank HoT fine on my bard with 3 clerics with no issues.

Having said that, you probably wont be main tank on your halfling war unless you really push into it or are part of a new group of people trying to raid. Any guild force or w/e you will join will have a better geared / high level war to tank for you especially if your war is only your second char with ~3k put into it. Nothing against you, its just how it is (get best geared tank to raid tank).

In a raid setting, SK will mostly be used to pull, warriors will dps, and I have no idea what paladins do except sit in a corner and pray during raids that they get a chance to LoH and save the day.

All 3 will be dependent on others given that you can't twink them with a fungi.

Given that you have 3k, that basically means youre locked into 2x hp/ac rings (500p) + haste (schw 1kp) + weaps (most likely venom axe + offhand or shield 1.5kp) for best results. This won't change between the 3 choices you put there.

As above, procs really dont matter except as a good luck roll per hit. You can't realistically rely on them at that point.

Going through dungeon levelling up, knight aggro spells are king at aggro control. Taunt isnt reliable and your DPS isn't going to pull aggro off the melee classes.

Overall, I'd say the ogre SK or halfling war. The main difference is how important DPS is vs solid tanking.

[Keebz]

Thanks for the replies thus far!

Overall, I'd say the ogre SK or halfling war.

I think that's where I am as well.


You cant hold aggro for shit at low level as a warrior


As far as holding aggro? What setup would the war need to do it semi-reliably? A WESS? A frosty? Or is it more a levels thing?

I can potentially scrounge up some more plat, but I'm definitely not willing to grind out fungi money.

[Crede]

with That kind of budget, you’re basically always gonna have to group in indoor dungeons. All classes are fine in that case. But If you want solo options beyond that, go sk. I’d probably rule out war if you’re not gonna primarily raid with him. Sk is the most well rounded IMO.

[DMN]

Ogre SK.
Can pull/FD split
Snare
Aggro
Tank
Fear

It's quite a toolbox for soloing, grouping in full groups or small groups.

[Legidias]

You just cant hold aggro at low level (without spells) with any class unless you're super twinked with haste and great weapons. The only way I've found to be semi-reliable is to have a 2h to lead off with the 2h dmg aggro (a double attack 2h will actually hold it decently) but this still doesnt work unless at least lvl 20 with first dmg cap removal.

Even then, 1 slow and you'll lose aggro pretty much.

So if you want the lvling tank, its still SK. War just gives you opetions for DPS but trading off less group tank aggro.

[elwing]

Sk are in my view probably the best exp group tank... Warrior tanks better but have slower agro and less utilities. Pali tank just as well and they can help with healing if the group is tight on that side. So your choice but if your goal is just to tank exp group it's definitely pal or sk. And when the group is not lacking healing sk are slightly more offensive... But not that much anyway...

[Jimjam]

In fairness there isn't so much class divergence by level 20 so it isn't too severe if you aren't constantly tanking.

You seem interested in having a short character with your positivity about the halfling race. Have you considered dwarf paladin?

[Keebz]

You seem interested in having a short character with your positivity about the halfling race. Have you considered dwarf paladin?

Great observation. TBH I'm mainly just stoked on halflings. My main on live was a halfling rogue, so something about seeing that damn character model gets my blood pumping. But, yea, being short is also useful for dungeoning. I tried running around Befallen on my Ogre the other day, and it was a bit off putting how often I got stuck in doorways.

As for Dwarf Pal, that is probably a better option than HiE. I had my mind set on HIE for the mana pool and the Nature's Defender, but the melee stats are brutal without heavier twinkage.

But at this point, I think I'm set on War or SK. One lingering question is when does the Warrior dps start pulling away from the SK dps? 20? Also, I'm sensing warrior just can't reliably tank until high levels. At what level can a warrior realistically start maintaining aggro?

[Quizlop]

But at this point, I think I'm set on War or SK. One lingering question is when does the Warrior dps start pulling away from the SK dps? 20? Also, I'm sensing warrior just can't reliably tank until high levels. At what level can a warrior realistically start maintaining aggro?

The question is less "when can you start maintaining aggro?" and more "when will mobs last long enough for the warrior to get aggro?". Without using clickies, Warriors are going to be worse for snap aggro at every level. At higher levels (late 40s - 50s), mobs take a lot longer to kill, giving warriors time to get procs off and still have a lot of time to tank before the mob dies.

Barring massive stat/gear differences, the Warrior should pull ahead in DPS probably in the teens. SKs rarely use their pets in dungeons (they usually just get in the way, and don't provide a huge DPS boost) and don't really get decent DPS spells until higher levels, and even then they are limited by their mana pool. Warriors can start doing massive damage with a Staff of Battle at level 20, with huge crits and crips and no resources to worry about.

[Legidias]

Given similar gear, a lvl 20 warrior can probably out dps any other melee (even rogue) if they're <40% hp and getting crip blows

[Snaggles]

Arguably while leveling up a Knight is going to be a more fun experience. Your tanking will be close to warriors and aggro is available in spades. While the SK is more mobile getting to camps, a pally using some cloudy potions and lulling will make for decent travel. In the high level camps most replacement tanks will train down and die for a rez (you have a chance of surviving as a SK).

In the very high levels warrior defensive disciplines make for better tanking of the named mobs especially if slowing is difficult/not possible and you have a Druid healer. I don’t raid but Khelkar in Velks lower dogs has put my pally in the dirt a few times.

Warriors are very gear dependant; knights not as much. Even soloing once a pally hits 45 if you can root it you can kill it (DW helm healing). Likewise a SK can kill anything with enough space if they can land fear. Monks/warriors it’s a race of kill or be killed and unless burning root nets and bandages there are only so many tricks on the utility belt.

Both knights have extremely powerful tools the other doesn’t have. I wouldn’t say better or worse but just different. For a 3k twink mainly for fun it would definitely be my path.

IMHO, choose between having supreme mitigation or aggro knowing you will envy the other at some point. Even in grind groups I wish I was a Warrior about 10% of the time. Warrior DPS can be amazing but in a group 55+ with rogues, monks and chanter pets it’s all relative and you are just there just to stay alive and to keep the target pissed.

[Varren]

Pretty much every class can manage their own aggro and let the warrior tank. If not, root really works. Warriors are very powerful. Paladins are really fun with the cc and heals, but I’ve played both and am very glad I chose warrior as main.

If you play with smart players that pay attention, warrior is much more powerful. If you play with a crappy group, a paladin can magnify the group’s efforts with its cc skills.

[Varren]

With all that said, paladins are super fun to play

[Crede]

Pretty much comes down to 1 of 3 choices.

Want to be the best group tank? Paladin.
Want to be the best raid tank? Warrior
Want to be the 2nd best group tank, best soloer and puller of the 3? SK.

I also found the SK spell set much more enjoyable than Pally spells & warrior dps. FD is a godsend.

[Dillusional]

You won't be getting agroe through procs on your halfling warrior until you are in your 50s. You won't have the dex and the procs are just too inconsistent. You need weapons with some kind of decent ratio and a haste item. A wurmslayer and a frostbringer with an fbss or SCHW will be decent enough agroe until the 40s, except when playing with the most twinked players. So if you can get to like 5-6kpp to get Wurmslayer + Frobringer + SCHW, I think you will be twinked enough to play your halfling warrior comfortably in a group setting.

Just remember that agroe from swinging is calculated as (dmg + dmg Bonus) per swing regardless of how much damage you do. You only get a damage bonus for your primary hand. The formula for damage bonus is (level - 25)/3 ...


High elf paladin and Ogre SK both sound like fine choices too. If you're going to be casual and never get to 60, I think choosing either of those over a halfling war is a fine decision.

[Jimjam]

Warriors do generate a lot of swings, IIRC more than any class but monk, so given equivalent equipment, and the warrior's weapons are geared towards melee hate whereas their groupmates are geared towards dps, the warrior should pull ahead on white damage.

Most melee classes have abilities to drop unwanted aggro for when you have a few bad rounds, and if you have a shaman as a slower he can take a beating for a small period if needed.

With a rooting class in the group, the warrior can tippytoe tank until he establishes aggro proper.

When severely outgeared so he struggles to establish aggro over his melee companions, and they refuse to use their abilities that let the drop aggro... chances are they are geared sufficiently to tank just as well as you.

The real weakness of the warrior relative to knights isn't it's inability to hold aggro, it is sufficiently good to keep aggro on a single target in a skilled group. It's the fact that warrior has almost zero ability to CC adds via offtank while also fulfilling the roll of MA/MT.

This weakness is somewhat mitigated by the fact that CC and dps class players will screech like gibbons if the MT dares to change his target from the dps mob for even a second, creating a strong peer pressure for the knight to not use the majority of his snap aggro abilities on adds.

[Snaggles]

This weakness is somewhat mitigated by the fact that CC and dps class players will screech like gibbons if the MT dares to change his target from the dps mob for even a second, creating a strong peer pressure for the knight to not use the majority of his snap aggro abilities on adds.

So much truth. The authority of the "Assist Me" hotkey and the loyalty of staying on target is not what I remember it being.

A warrior was great for grind groups on live. DPS and slowers just paced themselves a bit more and didn't immediately shift 100% of the blame.

[Pint]

You are not worthy of rolling a paladin with a first choice like high elf. You're obv warrior material.

[Legidias]

If only there was gnome option for knights. Then the list would easily be:

Gnome SK
Gnome War
Gnome Pally

[elwing]

I approve gnome sk as the only other sk race serving the true Lord!

[Crede]

Gnome sk would be incredible to be able to use the clockwork armor for soloing.