Enchanter Illusions

[Kerr]

How do they work? Are they a +X amount of faction and -Y amount of that races 'enemies' or does it just move your factions to the initial factions of the race the turn into? (And religions just trump it all)

[ithaqua]

faction info here (http://therunes.net/faction.htm), unless it differs from live~

[Kika Maslyaka]

each faction has a basic relation to each race, class and deity (this is before any earned faction points)

let say that Druids in Sure Fall Glide have following standing:

at 0 to Humans
at +100 to Rangers and Druids
at +100 to followers of Tunare or Karana
at -500 to dark Elves
at 0 to Enchanters
at -500 to followers of Innoruk

the list is actually very extensive covering all possible race/class/deity combos.

So if you are Human Druid of Tunare your starting faction with this group is: 0 + 100 + 100 = 200 (which is Amiable)

If you are Dark Elf Enchanter of Innoruk your starting faction with this group is: -500 + 0 + - 500 = -1000 (Which is Threateningly)

When you cast Illusion Human, you changing your -500 as DE to 0 as a Human, so your total faction changes to 0 + 0 + -500, placing you at Dubious

note that number given are for general understanding only, they are not exact

[Kerr]

So with guards that start out as like dubious or something out of illusion and amiably in illusion, and then you kill them down to scowls out of illusion they should be like threateningly in illusion? And that's normal? feels like they should like me in illusion if i've killed them or not...
(This is the case with my gnome enchanter and the trolls guards of grobb)

[Mardur]

You have a set value @ a particular faction, and then illusion modifies that. Therefore if an illusion will only give you say, 500 points, and you're starting at max kos, it's quite possible you go from scowls to threateningly.

[Mardur]

It used to be a little buggy though, not sure if it's been altered. For example, my Agnostic Erudite Magician killed Ogre guards down to max kos, but with guise (DE illusion) I'd be at least apprehensive and indifferent in Oggok, I could buy/sell and bank.

[Kika Maslyaka]

So with guards that start out as like dubious or something out of illusion and amiably in illusion, and then you kill them down to scowls out of illusion they should be like threateningly in illusion? And that's normal? feels like they should like me in illusion if i've killed them or not...
(This is the case with my gnome enchanter and the trolls guards of grobb)

No, any additional faction you have gained also counts in on top whatever illusion gives you.
You may have been Indifferent in Illusion, but if you gain another -1000 from killing something, you will be KOS even with illusion

[Uthgaard]

If you use an illusion, you are calculated as if you were that race. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is an example of a faction table:
http://i56.tinypic.com/255q25d.jpg
If you were a High Elf, and you cast Illusion: Gnome, you would use the Gnome portion of the table, instead of High Elf. That's really all there is to it. The total impact of faction is composite of the base, your class, your race, your deity, faction modifiers (alliance spells), and your individual faction level (the tally of all +/- hits you've received).

[Hithrohir]

Illusions are a bit buggy. I grinded like five levels off of Grobb guards and they would still be dubious in troll illusion despite my faction with them being as low as it can get. They wouldn't aggro and I could use the bank (and the vendors stay indifferent due to being on a different faction; not sure if that's working as intended, either) and I would guess the same goes for other cities and illusions of their respective races.

[Uthgaard]

Illusions aren't buggy, your understanding of what's happening is incorrect. It works exactly like I described.

[Hithrohir]

That doesn't make sense. The illusion should treat me exactly as if I was transformed into a character of the same class and deity but of the illusion's race, right? Then how does it make me immune to becoming KOS? An actual troll could presumably become KOS by killing a million Grobb guards. I distinctly remember people ruining their friendly city factions by camping their guards for exp. With illusion: troll, my enchanter remains dubious despite having the lowest possible faction, i.e "your faction standing with Da Bashurs (or whatever) could not possibly get any worse."

I'm being moved to the troll table for faction, though the negatives for maximum negative faction, enchanter class, and good-aligned deity combined are insufficient to make me KOS? This does not seem right. I know the above table probably isn't for a Grobb guard, but theirs presumably have similar tables for my deity etc. My theory was that the illusion applies a blanket +x faction that happens to be greater than the figure between maximum negative faction and minimum dubious faction, i.e it artificially raises my minimum faction to a point above threateningly level. Is it working as intended that illusions prevent you from ever becoming KOS, and thus, by extension, that one can never become KOS to their home town?

[Mardur]

Illusions aren't buggy, your understanding of what's happening is incorrect. It works exactly like I described.

The important part of what people are describing as a "bug" (maybe not the correct term but they haven't worked like they did on live) is that the illusion modifier is obviously being applied after base faction. This is why you can be max kos and still have good faction after applying an illusion. If all it did is calculate faction as if you were that race, you'd still be max kos. In my example, I was an Agnostic Erudite Magician at max kos with most/all Oggok factions, but I was dubious-indifferent throughout Oggok under Dark Elf illusion. If a Dark Elf killed guards to max kos, they would obviously still be kos.

Hell, a Dark Elf used to be able to click guise (apply Dark Elf illusion over natural Dark Elf) and become non-kos in Oggok in the same manner. Not sure if this still works this way, but I don't remember any patch notes about illusions being changed.

Edit: Think Karsten was a-ok in Oggok too as a Dark Elf Paladin of Tunare :p

[Mardur]

Maybe P99 just uses super advanced AI and Ogres are too dumb to see through your illusionary deception.

[Uthgaard]

It's incredibly time consuming to create an accurate faction table. It took me a week to get all of the iksar faction tables 100% correct. There are a lot of factions in the game. Not all faction tables in the game are 100% accurate. But illusions work exactly as I described.

[Kika Maslyaka]

That doesn't make sense. The illusion should treat me exactly as if I was transformed into a character of the same class and deity but of the illusion's race, right? Then how does it make me immune to becoming KOS? An actual troll could presumably become KOS by killing a million Grobb guards. I distinctly remember people ruining their friendly city factions by camping their guards for exp. With illusion: troll, my enchanter remains dubious despite having the lowest possible faction, i.e "your faction standing with Da Bashurs (or whatever) could not possibly get any worse."

I'm being moved to the troll table for faction, though the negatives for maximum negative faction, enchanter class, and good-aligned deity combined are insufficient to make me KOS? This does not seem right. I know the above table probably isn't for a Grobb guard, but theirs presumably have similar tables for my deity etc. My theory was that the illusion applies a blanket +x faction that happens to be greater than the figure between maximum negative faction and minimum dubious faction, i.e it artificially raises my minimum faction to a point above threateningly level. Is it working as intended that illusions prevent you from ever becoming KOS, and thus, by extension, that one can never become KOS to their home town?

Ok simple explanation is following:

faction A1 LIKES trolls - and trolls get +2000 faction points

So you grind your faction into "cannot get any worse" - which is -2500 points modifier

BUT by being a troll, you get +2000, which puts you all together at -500, which is still Dubious

[Jigga]

On live it used to be you could go into an illusion and that illusion would take a hit. Example is if I was human and went and kill guards in FP using gnome illusion and became kos with the gnome illusion i could clikc off gnome and go back to human and my human faction would be un touched but if i was in gnome illusin i would be kos

[Kika Maslyaka]

On live it used to be you could go into an illusion and that illusion would take a hit. Example is if I was human and went and kill guards in FP using gnome illusion and became kos with the gnome illusion i could clikc off gnome and go back to human and my human faction would be un touched but if i was in gnome illusin i would be kos

No, the guards simply liked Gnomes LESS than Humans, so when you would become KOS as Gnome, you were still ok as Human, but all the negative faction you accumulated still there with your character

[Jigga]

I cant remember exactly how it worked but it was a bug or an exploit or just not thought of by the Devs. Either way all ench that knew about it would exp kill guards in an illusion.Eventually it was changed

[Caravelle1]

FYI, it appears every enchanter illusion raises faction, if you kill that faction you can lower to be kos even while in the faction.

WITH THE EXCEPTION of dark elf. I've killed 4000+ dark elves, and they wont KOS me in dark elf illusion

[casdegere]

One of the BIG reasons most Enchanters select Agnostic instead of a religion is due to Illusions.

For instance say I go to Ogguk where I am KOS. Most NPCs have a God that they believe in. Once I cast an Illusion upon myself, even with a KOS...I become that race without any Religion +/- added in. Add in Alliance or better yet, Benevolence, I can be Amiable to them.

Now, if I am not KOS to that race, say humans and I am say an Erudite. I am normally Indifferent to Humans in say Freeport. If I cast the Human Illusion and then Alliance upon a merchant, I can go up to Warmly without fail.

I can not comment on religions because my chanter is Agnostic.