Knight agro wpns thread

[bernardsalmon]

So decreased spell hate sucks. Keeping flash of light memmed for emergencies but wont it do shit to keep mobs off dps. Stuns are unreliable if a mob isn't slowed and interrupts you once or twice, and honestly i dont have the mana to stun a mob 3-4 times a fight to keep agro all night.

So what weapons (under 10k) would you suggest that'll allow me to tank again? I'm a paladin but I'm guessing sk's are having similar issues.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I wouldn't spend money just yet. Flash of Light, Disease Cloud, Shadow Vortex, Flame Lick etc. had very good aggro in Classic for the classes that could innately cast those spells... unfortunately all I have is anecdotal evidence. My guild on Xegony had a SK as a main tank in Velious for HoT or anything that didn't explicitly require warrior disciplines to tank. No one ever yanked the mob off him. I know for a fact I could yank a mob off any caster that drew aggro with one Flame Lick (or a Snare or two if there was a chance whatever i was going to offtank or kite would be mezzed.)

i think something went wrong with the way the patch was implemented.

[Raev]

Spell threat was only supposed to be reduced for spells not in your book, i.e. warriors and monks using clickies. So it should be fixed at some point.

[Troxx]

Spell threat was only supposed to be reduced for spells not in your book, i.e. warriors and monks using clickies. So it should be fixed at some point.

This. It’s going to have to be fixed.

But for now for Paladin sword of the morning has a 50dd 5 second stun. The down side is relatively low white damage threat. As a warrior main I can would you encourage you to not overestimate proc mechanics for the purposes of threat. It is inherently unreliable especially if you’re used to on demand aggro as pretty much most knights are.

I use natures Defender. Before the patch procs were some bonus threat and dps I didn’t pay much attention to. Now, as I have to cast more and ration mana I watch them much more closely. An early proc can save me an extra 20-60 mana per fight in avoided casts. That may not seem like much but without clarity I can only meditate 20 a tick. It makes a big difference in a fast pulling group.

This issue since the patch will need a full revamp. Warrior weapon procs are going to have to come back up. There’s no excuse for end game warrior threat weapons to be as terrible as they are now.

[elwing]

Honestly, I have only tanked puppets since the patch, and two dc + shroud of death is enough to take agro off the slower, and it seems quite similar to what I was experiencing before the patch... The nerf to not seems that huge to me, if any...

[AegnorP99]

I'm a bit confused by this whole thing. Obviously flash of light shouldn't have been nerfed (hope it gets fixed soon), but shouldn't proc aggro from Sword of the Morning, Nature's Defender and Fiery Defender be a lot lower now regardless? None of those procs are in a paladin spell book.

[Ennewi]

Agreed with the above posts. But if you can't wait and have plat to spare, it might be worth purchasing a deepwater bracer (assuming you are of or close to the required level). Spamming it while backed against a wall could be done to hold aggro reliably before the patch and it should still be enough to get the job done. Of course timing its 6sec cast just right, on incoming targets, is exceedingly difficult in dungeons with poor line of sight so dps will still have to wait for the assist call.

Otherwise, might as well defer to other group members and let them adjust their playstyles for the time being, not just the stab-happy rogues but classes with deep mana pools who can cast root for proximity aggro--priests and robe wearers who are able to meditate while the mob is in camp preventing you from doing the same. Being such a common, low-level spell, root can save healer mana and everyone the frustration if it's cast straight away on the incoming target rather than as a CC reaction afterwards when aggro bounces.

A cheap alternative/addition to this strategy would be to buy a Treant Staff (https://wiki.project1999.com/Treant_Staff). The ratio is poor, but obviously no one is going to be shocked that a knight is lacking in damage output.

[Crede]

Sitting in a corner doing less DPS than knights already do and spamming DW bracer sounds like the worst thing ever. I remember having to be a lot more patient on live having to wait until tank built aggro. People just need to slow down and not be so stab-happy as you put it.

[Troxx]

Honestly, I have only tanked puppets since the patch, and two dc + shroud of death is enough to take agro off the slower, and it seems quite similar to what I was experiencing before the patch... The nerf to not seems that huge to me, if any...

Well enchanters are reporting significantly less aggro on tash so this spell aggro reduction may likely be across the board. I have not had any problems with proportional aggro compared to slows/debuffs/mez_breaks. I don’t find your report odd at all — remember, Willsapper which has a proc slow went from being very strong to quite weak. I think all spell based aggro is just gimped.

Holding aggro off melee is the rub. A single flash used to be enough to lock down early fight but it no longer is. Yesterday we had a monk offtanking another mob and after first mob was dead I failed a few taunts while spamming flash of light and it took 8-9 flashes to steal aggro. This monk wasn’t using any stunn proc weapons. I can not recall any other time ever (even with an off tank being on the mob significantly longer) where 2-3 casts would fail to snap aggro.

[elwing]

Hum, good point... All spells might be impacted... Being the only melee beside pets it do not prove much...

[bigjeff100]

I wouldn't spend money just yet. Flash of Light, Disease Cloud, Shadow Vortex, Flame Lick etc. had very good aggro in Classic for the classes that could innately cast those spells... unfortunately all I have is anecdotal evidence. My guild on Xegony had a SK as a main tank in Velious for HoT or anything that didn't explicitly require warrior disciplines to tank. No one ever yanked the mob off him. I know for a fact I could yank a mob off any caster that drew aggro with one Flame Lick (or a Snare or two if there was a chance whatever i was going to offtank or kite would be mezzed.)

i think something went wrong with the way the patch was implemented.

How about shovels though.... I bet they will hold agro!!!!

[Ennewi]

Sitting in a corner doing less DPS than knights already do and spamming DW bracer sounds like the worst thing ever. I remember having to be a lot more patient on live having to wait until tank built aggro. People just need to slow down and not be so stab-happy as you put it.

Oh it is, and not recommended except when group members won't wait for the assist call and the healer isn't letting them die. It's like bad parenting, when the healer keeps certain players alive. They won't ever learn if others keep intervening on their behalf. Then they're attending raids and trying to get their group xp / make the top of the parse list. But yeah, spamming dw bracer is for extreme cases when all other options have been exhausted. Sometimes there isn't even the luxury of a corner to stand in. There's just a slanted pillar or an afk ogre/troll.

[Wallicker]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Root

Someone in your group can cast this then whoever can tank

[Snaggles]

There are some cheap proc weapons available but that’s not what a knight does. They use the best weapon available to them (or whatever they want) and rely on casted spells. If that doesn’t work:

1. Something is currently broken and likely to be fixed.
2. The DPS is engaging early and likely making poor gear decisions.
3. The DPS are outclassing them significantly and need to pace themselves based on aggro. Annoying but it’s a part of being a good dps with great gear.

P99 culture by and large is used to cranking the amp to 11. Raid tanks use mallets and grind groups people don’t use discretion then complain if THEY are getting hit. If the tank is casting spells at a sustainable rate that shouldn’t be an issue. It’s likely going to get harder...that means people have to actually try.

Around Luclin on Live I got a willsapper with my Rogue. I was in plenty of groups where I had no aggro problems. The tanks were making an effort and I was engaging at 90% and being careful. If I was taking hits and stealing the healer’s mana I would adjust my gear, pace myself, and apologize.

You can also often root and make a proximity aggro announcement hotkey. Cast stun and FOL as much as possible so when root breaks you do t lose control right away. Let the dps die if they don’t understand to keep max distance. They should have learned this stuff in HHK...

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Haha did they really nerf the one thing that knights had going for them?

[Lune]

I'm still getting pretty good agro on flame lick, only situation I really notice a difference where I can't get infinite agro is against a hasted/dw charm pet

Disease cloud seems very noticeable though

Hope they fix it.... like knights and rangers really needed nerfing

[bernardsalmon]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Root

Someone in your group can cast this then whoever can tank

Reliable in some cases, but not reliable enough. Hence weapon advice.

[Jimjam]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Root

Someone in your group can cast this then whoever can tank

Summoning mobs will turn to face the closest player but will actually hit whoever is highest aggro in melee range.

[Snaggles]

Reliable in some cases, but not reliable enough. Hence weapon advice.

You can equip a WESS, Frostbringer or Rod of Lam. Not sure how the patch effected them but the warriors should be facing the same problem (or worse since they can’t cast spells).

I’d just chain spells and update people your mana. They can watch their aggro if you are running low, slow pulls, or learn to tank stuff themselves.

[Swish2]

Knights have taunt too, don't leave that off your ability bar <3

[elwing]

Taunt tend to fail when it's really needed, but yeah, it's a great ability...

Anyway just keep spamming dc with one or two shroud of pain in between at the start of the fight... That's still way enough agro for any sane dps, it's also low mana enough to need no meditation with a c2 or low downtime without...

[Tethler]

On P99, the dps is generally much better geared than people were back in Velious era on live, and here nobody waits to dps. They just jump on the mob the second it's in camp. Even with junk gear, I remember having to give the tank a couple combat rounds on the mob before assisting so I didn't pull it off. Maybe people should try that until it gets fixed in 2074.

[Snaggles]

On P99, the dps is generally much better geared than people were back in Velious era on live, and here nobody waits to dps. They just jump on the mob the second it's in camp. Even with junk gear, I remember having to give the tank a couple combat rounds on the mob before assisting so I didn't pull it off. Maybe people should try that until it gets fixed in 2074.

QFT

I remember as a rogue being paranoid of pulling aggro. Healers and tanks (especially warriors) were not shy about putting heavy-handed DPS in their place.

[elwing]

I don't know about this nerf, but I finally had to tank something in raid yesterday, and I had no problem at all keeping agro spamming the usual DC and a couple of shroud of pain during recast at the start of fight...
The only agro challenge I had was with another 60sk tgat missed the tank order...

[tycohunden]

You notice pretty quick which weapons will steal aggro from warriors, even if they get to procc a couple of times before engaging:

On paladin, fiery defender, natures defender both have procs that generate a bunch of aggro!
On Shadowknight the Frostreaver has a similar procc, which is: Damage, lure(harder to resist) and stun.
It was a long time since I did the calculation but I think it was 600 aggro from the procc.

As stated, main knight aggro comes from spells, but having a aggro weapon is great to cement that you hold the mob aggroed. After a short while you can be sure no one is gonna steal it from you.
Innoruuk's curse is not very good aggro.

[elwing]

Innoruuk curse is only leech dot, single component... Guess greenmist that leech similar hp but also steal str/ac is much better...

[Kwitchercryn]

My main is a 33 Pally. I have spent the last few nights/levels in HHK killing gobs. I am not seeing any issues with threat, not really. Once I pull the mob in, I root straight away, make sure I am standing right on top of it and hit it with a stun/FOL Its not very often that the mob will get peeled off me, and my gear isnt that great. Maybe its more of an issue later when dps are more powerful? Im just gonna keep doing this until it doesn't work anymore. :P

[elwing]

I don't know if anything was changed/fixed or whatever, but I have been tanking plenty easier knight target and never had any issue with agro at all...

[Arkanjil]

Same, on my paladin I spam 2-3 FoL per mob and never have aggro issues post patch.

[Troxx]

2-3 FoLs still lock about as much aggro as one did before the patch. I used to be able to get by with 1-2 casts and no procs per mob vs epic rogues and monks. Now it takes 3-5.

Make no mistake it’s still fairly easy but over time I’m spending a lot more mana I’d rather have free for heals/other.

[DMN]

One of my main raiding characters in classic was an SK. No one was taking aggro from me while spamming disease cloud, votex, and clinging darkness. It was pretty normal for me to take aggro until slow landed to try to mitigate the amount of enchanter/shaman deaths while debuffing is going on,

[Bardp1999]

Its not as good as it was but spamming Disease Cloud is still a very low mana high agro spell (for SK anyhow). I have noticed a change but its not game breaking, at least for me.

+1 to proc agro being terribly inconsistent, as a Paladin you will not be satisfied.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I haven't had any big issues with Flame Lick... there may have been a few times I was surprised someone took aggro and i had to recast, but I can't tell if it was due to the change or because i am more sensitive to it happening after I read the patch notes.

[Jauna]

Low level agro for my new pal/sk (flash and disease) seem lacking, like I lose the attention of some mobs now at 30-40% with uber twinks in the group. but my higher level pal/sk with vortex/stun? forget about it.

flame lick still cool

[elwing]

Low level agro for my new pal/sk (flash and disease) seem lacking, like I lose the attention of some mobs now at 30-40% with uber twinks in the group. but my higher level pal/sk with vortex/stun? forget about it.

flame lick still cool

Just recast DC a second time... Then at higher level some more... On raid I just keep casting it, never had agro issues like that... If you are a bit mana challenged? Just keep using DC and don't use anything else...

[Legidias]

But do knight weapons hate tables? Or only desks?

[jackharry]

Hum, good point... All spells might be impacted... Being the only melee beside pets it does not prove much...

Good, Wonderful and awesome.

[sacman08]

Disease cloud use to be bugged to agro higher than it should. Eq live took like 4 years to fix not sure if it was remedied on P99. It’s the goto spell to get the mob turned on you. Keep taunt maxed and spam. Also helps to have a proc on 1h weapon too. Next best thing to get hate is to fear them but no one likes that in group play.

[Bardp1999]

The best agro is white damage with a couple of spells on top. I know everyone thinks Knights do terrible DPS but on my raid geared 59 SK I feel her DPS is quite respectable. As a consequence its much easier keeping agro using my 1:1 ratio weapon vs the shit I had before.