Enchanter - charm questions

[deven1313]

Hello,

I'm level 21 at the moment and haven't done much charming yet, mainly because my CHA is relatively low. But, at 20 we got Sympathetic Aura which raises CHA so I've been trying it out. I am fighting only in groups at the moment and had a few questions. Note, I'm trying to keep the same mob charmed right now, not killing them so not sure if that has any bearing on my questions.

1. Does my CHA only matter when I first cast the charm spell? In other words, if my sympathetic aura buff runs out while the mob is charmed, does that affect the charm duration?

2. Since Tashani only lasts 5 minutes max, will it keep them charmed longer if I re-tash after 5 min or is it a one-time thing?

3. How do you know the best weapons to give charmed pets? For instance in Oasis, the orcs have all sorts of weapons so when I charm one, I can give it a sword, club, spear, staff, 2 swords etc. Not sure which combo will inflict the most damage.

Thanks in advance!

[Crede]

Hello,

I'm level 21 at the moment and haven't done much charming yet, mainly because my CHA is relatively low. But, at 20 we got Sympathetic Aura which raises CHA so I've been trying it out. I am fighting only in groups at the moment and had a few questions. Note, I'm trying to keep the same mob charmed right now, not killing them so not sure if that has any bearing on my questions.

1. Does my CHA only matter when I first cast the charm spell? In other words, if my sympathetic aura buff runs out while the mob is charmed, does that affect the charm duration?

2. Since Tashani only lasts 5 minutes max, will it keep them charmed longer if I re-tash after 5 min or is it a one-time thing?

3. How do you know the best weapons to give charmed pets? For instance in Oasis, the orcs have all sorts of weapons so when I charm one, I can give it a sword, club, spear, staff, 2 swords etc. Not sure which combo will inflict the most damage.

Thanks in advance!

1.) I believe charm has periodic CHA checks throughout the duration. So if your CHA buff does fade, you'd want to refresh it.

2.)If tash fades, usually a safe bet just to wait for the next break and re-tash, no need to waste mana breaking too early in most situations.

3.)Weapons generally to force duel wield and for some procs at the highest level. What you use should not effect the damage. There may be an exception to this, I know mage pets can wreck early on with such items as an oggok cleaver with high dmg. I haven't studied this extensively.

I'm not 100% on #1, maybe someone will come into this thread and science the shit outta it. There's a bunch of threads on pet weapons and stuff and getting an optimal setup at the highest level with all the different pet toys. But generally speaking early on you're best off with just torches to force duel wield. Stick with charming as low of blues as possible to get the best possible charm duration. There's a huge -MR set you can build if you're serious about group charming:

2x Adamantite Bands (-20MR)
Rusty Spiked Shoulderpads (-10MR)
Riptide Spear (-5MR)
Tome of the Eternal (-10MR)
Astral Legs/Cloak of the Titans (-10MR)

[branamil]

1- every few seconds the pet tries to break. Your charisma has a small chance to stop it from breaking, Along with the Pet's magic resistance and level. So if your CHA wears off it is slightly more likely to break.

2. Re-tash whenever you can. The pets magic resistance plays a part in charm duration just like your charisma.

3. The weapons don't matter unless it has a proc, they all do the same amount of damage. Just give it two 1-handed items instead of a 2-hander so that it dual wields.

[Crede]

3. The weapons don't matter unless it has a proc, they all do the same amount of damage. Just give it two 1-handed items instead of a 2-hander so that it dual wields.

2H + torch should still dual wield. Good for stuff like staff of undead legions, mithril 2h sword, etc.

[deven1313]

I hadn't heard of the torch thing. So if you give a mob a sword and a torch, the torch becomes a weapon and it dual wields?

[Para99]

I hadn't heard of the torch thing. So if you give a mob a sword and a torch, the torch becomes a weapon and it dual wields?

It doesn't need a sword. Just a torch, a shield, a bard instrument, a lantern, anything that is only secondary equippable will force mobs to DW.

No one else mentioned it but if you're talking about soloing it will almost always be a pointless hassle to gear and buff your pet unless you for some reason are keeping the same pet which will not maximize xp. You generally shouldn't be keeping pets for longer than 5 minutes 1v1 mob soloing. If you have 1 mob and are waiting several minutes for a respawn just keep it mezzed until like 30 seconds before the spawn.

2H + torch should still dual wield. Good for stuff like staff of undead legions, mithril 2h sword, etc.

It will.

[Crede]

That's correct. Any secondary only weapon, like a lute or drum also. It used to be that a torch alone would force dual wield. There was a patch in 2015 that supposedly changed this to where 2 weapons of some kind were needed. My enchanter had already reached 60 at that point, so I never really was able to test after that.

[Crede]

It doesn't need a sword. Just a torch, a shield, a bard instrument, a lantern, anything that is only secondary equippable will force mobs to DW.


Did Haynar's patch notes in June of 2015 not affect this? Torch alone wasn't supposed to force DW anymore.

[Para99]

Did Haynar's patch notes in June of 2015 not affect this? Torch alone wasn't supposed to force DW anymore.

Almost positive that is only about summoned pets, probably intended to prevent low levels from forcing their pet to DW when the pet wouldn't equip 2 weapons and DW. Otherwise the patch didn't work or was reverted. Any 60 Enchanter on this server will tell you a torch or whatever will force DW, you can visually see the mob DWing and see the large jump in DPS in parses.

[Crede]

Haynar: A pet will no longer dual wield if they are handed a non-weapon item like a torch.

Says nothing about summoned only. Hmmm

[enjchanter]

Almost positive that is only about summoned pets, probably intended to prevent low levels from forcing their pet to DW when the pet wouldn't equip 2 weapons and DW. Otherwise the patch didn't work or was reverted. Any 60 Enchanter on this server will tell you a torch or whatever will force DW, you can visually see the mob DWing and see the large jump in DPS in parses.

+1

[Para99]

Says nothing about summoned only. Hmmm

If that applied to charmed pets that would mean a weapon + torch wouldn't force DW either, it would have to be two weapons. Over the years I have spent a lot of hours farming with a pet with nothing but a flute or torch I can guarantee ya it works.

If you want to see it in action you can parse it or find two of the same mobs that are the same level, give one an offhand item and leave the other one alone and see which one wins.

[Crede]

If that applied to charmed pets that would mean a weapon + torch wouldn't force DW either, it would have to be two weapons. Over the years I have spent a lot of hours farming with a pet with nothing but a flute or torch I can guarantee ya it works.

I understand that it works, I leveled my enchanter to 60 before this patch hit and it was great.

What I'm trying to determine is the original intention of the patch and whether or not all charmed pets should require 2 actual weapons just like a summoned one. If so, then 2H weapon + Torch, hth + torch, and 1H weapon + torch shouldn't force DW.

[kjs86z]

I can say with 100% certainty that you only need to give your charm pet a torch (or any item that is "secondary" only) and it will quad.

It doesn't need a primary. If you have a torch, you have a quadding pet.


@OP - if you're solo, don't bother weaponizing...especially at low level. Focus on not dying. Keep your kill target rooted so you only have 1 thing running at you on breaks, use a stun + level 4 mez on breaks to give yourself time to re-tash and charm.

Couple of things I didn't know while leveling up: AoE mez (Mesmerization) and level 4 mez (Mesmerize) are interchangeable...meaning AoE mez can over-write level 4 mez, and vice a versa. Any higher level mez will NOT work with AoE mez. AoE mez scared the hell out of me when I was new to the game which is why I didn't discover this for an embarrassingly long time.

I can count on one hand the number of situations where you'll need to use anything more than a 24 second duration mez. It costs 20 mana.

Later on when you're doing a camp and want to keep / weaponize a pet...you can calm the mob while its still charmed, break charm w/ invis, root, mez, and mem blur. The mob will forget everything you've done to it, and will sit there for the duration of the root regening HP like a freight train. It also won't aggro you while your calm spell is on it (3 min duration).

If I had known these things while I was leveling, it would have been so much easier. I was using max level mez and not knowing about torches, etc until almost 50. I was so naive.

Hit me up if you have any more questions along the way. Love helping new enchanters out now that I (kind of) know what I'm doing. I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination but I can learn ya on the basics.

[deven1313]

I have a quick follow-up question regarding giving an animation (not a charmed pet,) a weapon. Let's say by default, the animation has a shield and sword. If I give it one axe, the graphic changes to an axe and a shield. So at that point, it's still not dual-wielding correct? To do that, I'd need to give it TWO 1h weapons, is that right? IOW, the shield graphic must go away for it to be dual-wielding?

[deven1313]

bump

[enjchanter]

I have a quick follow-up question regarding giving an animation (not a charmed pet,) a weapon. Let's say by default, the animation has a shield and sword. If I give it one axe, the graphic changes to an axe and a shield. So at that point, it's still not dual-wielding correct? To do that, I'd need to give it TWO 1h weapons, is that right? IOW, the shield graphic must go away for it to be dual-wielding?

After a certain level it will innately DW if I remember correctly. But giving it 2 one handers or secondary only item (torch, lantern, mandolin, flute , etc) should force a dual wield

[wagorf]

very good questions, i also like to know

(1) our lvl 55 pet animation, by default is already holding 2 1-handers, do I still need to give it torch/1handers?

(2) I carry bags of torches on me all the time. When charming a mob without weapons, is it confirmed that giving it ONE torch is sufficient? I've been giving them 2 torches and now I feel like a fool...

[Endorra]

Zumaik's quads innately.

One torch is sufficient.

[derblott]

On the note of weaponizing - what are everyone's go-to weapons?

I usually snatch up Wu Trance sticks, gnoll whips, and the cheaper ykesha items. What else works well for long camps partnered up with a cleric?

And does anyone bother with haste items? Does Mithril 2hander + torch haste the pet AND allow it to quad? Is there a cheaper haste item worth using?

FWIW - Just hit 51 on my enchanter, really enjoying the class. Shopping for -MR gear for pets too but jeez it's tough to find...

[branamil]

Gnoll whips, Ykesha clubs/swords, deadwood staves are all good

Use Tola robe for haste, it's pretty cheap.

If you give it a 2h+torch it will dual wield but it seems buggy, sometimes they'll poof when I go to loot them back once I'm done.

[kjs86z]

On the note of weaponizing - what are everyone's go-to weapons?

I usually snatch up Wu Trance sticks, gnoll whips, and the cheaper ykesha items. What else works well for long camps partnered up with a cleric?

And does anyone bother with haste items? Does Mithril 2hander + torch haste the pet AND allow it to quad? Is there a cheaper haste item worth using?

FWIW - Just hit 51 on my enchanter, really enjoying the class. Shopping for -MR gear for pets too but jeez it's tough to find...

Mithril 2 hander + torch does indeed haste and quad, but I think tola robe would be better for your pet's worn haste and using more toys in weapon slots.

My favorite is lazyman setup Swarmcaller + torch. You can remove slow off your bar and run stuff like double stun, boon, etc depending on what your group is and what you're killing. Like when I do small group King in seb I'll run double stuns for all the CHs / gates / slows.

My favorite thing to do now is 4 man CE w/ a tank, cleric, and a rogue using Staff of Undead Legion + torch on one of the skeleton monk or SK frog trash mobs just outside 4door camp. 25% chance at drops AND a 10+ minute 100% safe (calm, break charm, mez, blur) AFK time til first golem pops. One morning it was a well geared 60 rogue and a hard AF warrior w/ my cleric and we were literally sitting there for 15+ minutes AFK between emp PH dead and 1st ICG pop.


Note: if you're gonna do a super long grind session w/ a group and just want as stable a pet as possible, don't forget your -MR items!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Riptide_Spear + https://wiki.project1999.com/Tome_of_the_Eternal + 2x adamantite bands + rusty spiked pads = -45 MR or basically a whole extra tash. There's also the astral cloak + leggings for another -10 MR but they're kinda pricey and its prob not wurf.

I have absolutely 0 data to say how fewer charm breaks may occur over say a 4 hour period....but would you consistently charm a pet w/o tash? I think not. Same logic applies...unless there's some kind of DR on -MR.


If I'm somewhere decently safe and just I run swarmcaller + tome of the eternal + 1 ada band + rusty spiked. I bought an equal amount of ada bands and rusty spiked pads a while back ago and my OCD (j/k kinda) says if I'm gonna lose pet items I may as well keep it at a 1:1 ratio.

[Quinas]

Always learning new things from this forum.

I have to say I've never used a lot of Calm on my charmed pets. Does Calm before a planned Gazughi ring break prevent the usual aggroing?

[Doctor Jeff]

Always learning new things from this forum.

I have to say I've never used a lot of Calm on my charmed pets. Does Calm before a planned Gazughi ring break prevent the usual aggroing?

The charm break will aggro the mob onto you, but calm lasts 2.5 minutes so once you get that memblur off (i always just level 4 mez until it blurs), you have a good long time to chill out.

[Baylan295]

Always learning new things from this forum.

I have to say I've never used a lot of Calm on my charmed pets. Does Calm before a planned Gazughi ring break prevent the usual aggroing?

Calm + Camp = OP. The charmed mob will not agro you when you come back in. It’s a way of breaking a stupidly dangerous pet with less risk.

[Quinas]

Calm + Camp = OP. The charmed mob will not agro you when you come back in. It’s a way of breaking a stupidly dangerous pet with less risk.

Oh wow. So calm a charmed pet, don't break, and then just camp in and out and it'll be fine?

[derblott]

Mithril 2 hander + torch does indeed haste and quad, but I think tola robe would be better for your pet's worn haste and using more toys in weapon slots.

My favorite is lazyman setup Swarmcaller + torch. You can remove slow off your bar and run stuff like double stun, boon, etc depending on what your group is and what you're killing. Like when I do small group King in seb I'll run double stuns for all the CHs / gates / slows.

My favorite thing to do now is 4 man CE w/ a tank, cleric, and a rogue using Staff of Undead Legion + torch on one of the skeleton monk or SK frog trash mobs just outside 4door camp. 25% chance at drops AND a 10+ minute 100% safe (calm, break charm, mez, blur) AFK time til first golem pops. One morning it was a well geared 60 rogue and a hard AF warrior w/ my cleric and we were literally sitting there for 15+ minutes AFK between emp PH dead and 1st ICG pop.


Note: if you're gonna do a super long grind session w/ a group and just want as stable a pet as possible, don't forget your -MR items!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Riptide_Spear + https://wiki.project1999.com/Tome_of_the_Eternal + 2x adamantite bands + rusty spiked pads = -45 MR or basically a whole extra tash. There's also the astral cloak + leggings for another -10 MR but they're kinda pricey and its prob not wurf.

I have absolutely 0 data to say how fewer charm breaks may occur over say a 4 hour period....but would you consistently charm a pet w/o tash? I think not. Same logic applies...unless there's some kind of DR on -MR.


If I'm somewhere decently safe and just I run swarmcaller + tome of the eternal + 1 ada band + rusty spiked. I bought an equal amount of ada bands and rusty spiked pads a while back ago and my OCD (j/k kinda) says if I'm gonna lose pet items I may as well keep it at a 1:1 ratio.

I read a couple of other places that pets can only equip a single ring item (so only give them one adamantite band). I don't know if there's a way to actually confirm that's true...

I camped a riptide spear myself cause I could not find any for sale, and STILL have not found a single adamantite band...sheesh.

Thanks for all the tips :)

[Baylan295]

I read a couple of other places that pets can only equip a single ring item (so only give them one adamantite band). I don't know if there's a way to actually confirm that's true...

I camped a riptide spear myself cause I could not find any for sale, and STILL have not found a single adamantite band...sheesh.

Thanks for all the tips :)

Someone did a test of this not long ago by charming a low level mob, handing them a ring, checking their HP, and then handing them another ring and checking their HP. IIRC, the conclusion was that it equipped both rings.

[Baylan295]

Oh wow. So calm a charmed pet, don't break, and then just camp in and out and it'll be fine?

Camping clears agro, and calm reduces agro radius to almost nothing. If you’re smooth it’s a great method to ensure a very low risk charm break.

[deven1313]

.....Later on when you're doing a camp and want to keep / weaponize a pet...you can calm the mob while its still charmed, break charm w/ invis, root, mez, and mem blur. The mob will forget everything you've done to it, and will sit there for the duration of the root regening HP like a freight train. It also won't aggro you while your calm spell is on it (3 min duration).....

There were a few other comments about using calm but I'm still not sure why you'd use it before the charm break. When you mem blur it after the break, it clears aggro anyway so why the Calm?

Speaking of this line of spells, I don't really understand the difference between them. In watching chanter videos, some very high level chanters still use Lull. What are the circumstances in which you'd use the various versions of these spells?

[Baylan295]

There were a few other comments about using calm but I'm still not sure why you'd use it before the charm break. When you mem blur it after the break, it clears aggro anyway so why the Calm?

Speaking of this line of spells, I don't really understand the difference between them. In watching chanter videos, some very high level chanters still use Lull. What are the circumstances in which you'd use the various versions of these spells?

Calm greatly reduces the agro radius. With kos mobs that hurt (say, in HS South), this matters because you can pop back in with no risk to a calmed mob without ever having agro on you. This is particularly relevant when breaking summoning mobs that are in summoning range.

Basically - there are a lot of mobs that are KOS, and calm -> break -> blur allows you to move freely. The method of the break depends on your philosophy and the risk involved.

[deven1313]

Calm greatly reduces the agro radius. With kos mobs that hurt (say, in HS South), this matters because you can pop back in with no risk to a calmed mob without ever having agro on you. This is particularly relevant when breaking summoning mobs that are in summoning range.

Basically - there are a lot of mobs that are KOS, and calm -> break -> blur allows you to move freely. The method of the break depends on your philosophy and the risk involved.

I understand that it reduces agro radius. But, this doesn't really answer either question. Again...why use calm BEFORE the break since mem blur erases agro anyway. And secondly, in what circumstances would you use each spell? (IE, Lull vs. Calm vs. Pacify)

[branamil]

Because after you blur, it will just re aggro you without calm. Unless you have room to get far away. Calm makes it more convenient

[Baylan295]

I understand that it reduces agro radius. But, this doesn't really answer either question. Again...why use calm BEFORE the break since mem blur erases agro anyway. And secondly, in what circumstances would you use each spell? (IE, Lull vs. Calm vs. Pacify)

Calm -> Camp -> Relog = No hits (only risk is a break during camping)

Break -> Get Hit ->Stun -> Mez -> Calm -> Blur = Get Hit (Riskier)

I always use calm. Lull is OK if you need to just reduce agro radius a little, but calm turns it to almost 0 and lasts for 3 minutes. I can’t think of any situation that pacify is better. Lull is great if you need to chain cast. Wake I’ve used only a handful of times in a year (circumstances where an early crit fail is catastrophic, but multiples agroing isn’t necessarily catastrophic).

[deven1313]

How do you interpret the radius listed on the Wiki? For instance, Calm says 5/50 and Lull says 15/30. What do the numbers mean?

[Baylan295]

How do you interpret the radius listed on the Wiki? For instance, Calm says 5/50 and Lull says 15/30. What do the numbers mean?

I have no idea what the wiki numbers mean. I know that if I walk on top of a lulled mob it will agro, and I can dance, moon walk, or flash mob on top of, and take inappropriate pictures with a calmed mob and it won’t agro. I think a calmed mob literally needs you to stand on the exact loc to agro.