Before another item gets synthetically inflated (Narandi's Lance)

[Toodles]

INB4 this gets out of hand, and we have another Circlet of Shadows scenario on our hands - boycott sellers advertising Narandi's lance for 10 times it's value.

We all knew this was coming, and in summary it had a 6 damage buff on it's ratio
So 20k up from 16k? Fine.



It's not worth 120k.

[1203jjt]

It's worth whatever someone will pay... Free market at work.

[Octopath]

Is it officially 44/45?

[Lanzellot]

lance was when i remember right before nerf at 120k ,but with the inflation over years on it i think it will sell for 90k :confused: we will see ,price inflation inc

[rollin5k]

the only way to control the market is to control people's minds and this post was a fail OP

[Toodles]

It's worth whatever someone will pay... Free market at work.

Your use of the free market comment is incorrect, because the market in a game is not free nor organic.

A free market requires certain variables though most simplistically it needs competing entities and products.

Virtual markets such as these skew that because the entities(players) and the products( items) are unique in that they are not material or tangible and they are not competing. They're all selling at the same fake price because one person assigned it an arbitrary value literally over night. And nor where they a professional collector or was an appraisal done weighing all relevant factors( and trying to clone from some 'remembered' value of an item across all servers equally[?] from the original servers, is not only wildly inaccurate but also foreign as this is not the same market place).


The items have no real value and ownership, possession, maintenance or storage isn't factor. They also carry no overhead costs to try and sell. Profit and margin isn't a thing, as you have not outgoing costs.
And if you're going to quantify time spent playing as an overhead, then that's false because no one is playing only to acquire items and only to sell them to only make coin - unless you RMT.

It's also synthetic because sellers are trying to confuse and mislead buyers by using terms such as 'pre nerf' to try and explain the increase. You only do that when the asking price is not justified.

the only way to control the market is to control people's minds and this post was a fail OP

The only thing that's going to fail is your attempt to plat roll people.



What also is bothersome about this is guilds/events who do ring war and get the lance can often roll on it. 15k isn't a massive deal. Now, they'll forego that, and claim it as a guild bank item for 'guild funding' or some other excuse to line the pockets of the guild council.

[Bristlebaner]

It's only worth what people pay...futile to try and explain away a price increase.

[TheSurgeon]

Your use of the free market comment is incorrect, because the market in a game is not free nor organic.

A free market requires certain variables though most simplistically it needs competing entities and products.

Virtual markets such as these skew that because the entities(players) and the products( items) are unique in that they are not material or tangible and they are not competing. They're all selling at the same fake price because one person assigned it an arbitrary value literally over night. And nor where they a professional collector or was an appraisal done weighing all relevant factors( and trying to clone from some 'remembered' value of an item across all servers equally[?] from the original servers, is not only wildly inaccurate but also foreign as this is not the same market place).


The items have no real value and ownership, possession, maintenance or storage isn't factor. They also carry no overhead costs to try and sell. Profit and margin isn't a thing, as you have not outgoing costs.
And if you're going to quantify time spent playing as an overhead, then that's false because no one is playing only to acquire items and only to sell them to only make coin - unless you RMT.

It's also synthetic because sellers are trying to confuse and mislead buyers by using terms such as 'pre nerf' to try and explain the increase. You only do that when the asking price is not justified.



The only thing that's going to fail is your attempt to plat roll people.



What also is bothersome about this is guilds/events who do ring war and get the lance can often roll on it. 15k isn't a massive deal. Now, they'll forego that, and claim it as a guild bank item for 'guild funding' or some other excuse to line the pockets of the guild council.

Bravo. However, it is all for naught. It is abundantly clear that the vast majority of people who sit perched on their intellectual mound of shit and parrot the "Free Market" trump card have no fucking clue what it means. The only truth is that you can't control a fool, and fools here come in such large numbers that we can never keep them from dropping massive amounts of platinum for items with a value not in line with the time it takes to acquire that platinum.

[enjchanter]

How much am I allowed to sell my lance for

[Octopath]

This server hates me. First I give all my plat to a guard, next I sell my lance a couple days before the price jumps from 15k to 90k. I’m fucking done

[Kika Maslyaka]

Your use of the free market comment is incorrect, because the market in a game is not free nor organic.

A free market requires certain variables though most simplistically it needs competing entities and products.

Virtual markets such as these skew that because the entities(players) and the products( items) are unique in that they are not material or tangible and they are not competing. They're all selling at the same fake price because one person assigned it an arbitrary value literally over night. And nor where they a professional collector or was an appraisal done weighing all relevant factors( and trying to clone from some 'remembered' value of an item across all servers equally[?] from the original servers, is not only wildly inaccurate but also foreign as this is not the same market place).


The items have no real value and ownership, possession, maintenance or storage isn't factor. They also carry no overhead costs to try and sell. Profit and margin isn't a thing, as you have not outgoing costs.
And if you're going to quantify time spent playing as an overhead, then that's false because no one is playing only to acquire items and only to sell them to only make coin - unless you RMT.

It's also synthetic because sellers are trying to confuse and mislead buyers by using terms such as 'pre nerf' to try and explain the increase. You only do that when the asking price is not justified.



The only thing that's going to fail is your attempt to plat roll people.



What also is bothersome about this is guilds/events who do ring war and get the lance can often roll on it. 15k isn't a massive deal. Now, they'll forego that, and claim it as a guild bank item for 'guild funding' or some other excuse to line the pockets of the guild council.

Yes and No.

While there is no materials or labor or overhead costs required to "create" an item, there is TIME involved in obtaining it. And TIME is a COST.
Also, in RL world there are things called "antiques". They not produced and their supply is limited, but they occasionally digged up.
And just as well as in RL world, cost of the item can be inflated by aggressive advertisement/hype.
Just like in RL world is majority of people refuse to buy, the price will fall.

So - don't like it - don't buy it. If enough people will keep buying (even if you consider them fools), price will stay. Perfectly realistic to me.

[Veleria]

Anyone who has 120k to waste on it bought 8 of them 3 years ago.

[Bristlebaner]

Someone offered me a lance for a fungi. It begins.

[enjchanter]

We need a paladin / SK expert to let us know how desirable this weapon is because I know warriors dont give a fuck about the lance

[JayDee]

We need a paladin / SK expert to let us know how desirable this weapon is because I know warriors dont give a fuck about the lance

SK have piercing cap so it sucks for them. Think it does well for pally but only three people play those

[Plowyabeastlord]

Heres my take on it. They STILL drop, and will continue to drop. All the patch did was boost the DMG (big deal its pally/sk dps anyways). The number of 55+ chars who can use it did NOT increase with patch. Hence price should remain the same /shrug. But ya got like Boutiktard and friends who (in some twisted mindset) think its now a 100k item.

/endrant

Much love
The only sensical non scalping reseller, Fleamarkit

[AbstractVision]

It does need to be appraised against its other options in the game. Using a warrior for example, it is the best piercing weapon in the game for them. Its stats and ratio place in in the top 15 best 2h weapons in the game for them and its one of the few droppable ones. Its easily worth 60-70k now.

[oqrelord]

Why would anyone even want that item with the lvl req 55 on it?

you cant twink with it, and when you can use it - you have access to better or comparable items.

[AbstractVision]

2H weapons better than NLance for warrior:
2H blunt:
Shovel of Harvest, Rocksmasher, Facesmasher, Primal brawl stick
2H slashing:
Twisted steel bastard sword, Meljeldin, Guadralek, Ancient fire etched flamberge, Axe of the Kromzek Kings, Clawed griffon sword, Frostreaver, Primal battle axe and claidhmore
2H Piercing:
Primal war lance

So actually its the only droppable 2H weapon in its class, easy top 15 best 2handers.

[mattydef]

Someone is already trying to trade a lance for an AoN lol

[24kanthony]

Already have Great Spear of Dawn.
Good luck, boys and girls.

[rekreant]

This server hates me. First I give all my plat to a guard, next I sell my lance a couple days before the price jumps from 15k to 90k. I’m fucking done

This made my day.

[Sonderbeast]

I parsed my NaRaNdI lance in KC an LOL got like LOL 120 dpsworthlookingin2

[Wallicker]

Best tradeable 2her and one of 4 weapons with basically 1:1 ratio obtainable before lvl 46(one of which cant hit magic and the other two are no drop off KT and Dain)

[Kesselring]

Someone is already trying to trade a lance for an AoN lol

Given that the aon has dropped since the beginning of time, aon is super over inflated on price. Anybody willing to spend over 100k on an item that still drops and has dropped since server release is a bit nutty. Id say its a fair trade.

[oqrelord]

Best tradeable 2her and one of 4 weapons with basically 1:1 ratio obtainable before lvl 46(one of which cant hit magic and the other two are no drop off KT and Dain)

Its basically unusuable until you hit 55... and theres a variety of weapons you can equip at level 1 for less than 1k that are comparable.

When you actually can use it, time and money would be better spent in other gear.

To each their own though

[White_knight]

SK have piercing cap so it sucks for them. Think it does well for pally but only three people play those

When I see an SK with this spear I quietly chuckle to myself.

[Swish2]

Trading my Narandi's Lance for your Manastone, pm me. No time wasters.

[Ifall]

I’ll trade mine for your belt of the great turtle! Choose me choose me

[kyrobo]

Best tradeable 2her and one of 4 weapons with basically 1:1 ratio obtainable before lvl 46(one of which cant hit magic and the other two are no drop off KT and Dain)

This.

Is it worth 100k? Probably not. But it's definitely worth more than 16k now.

[mattydef]

Given that the aon has dropped since the beginning of time, aon is super over inflated on price. Anybody willing to spend over 100k on an item that still drops and has dropped since server release is a bit nutty. Id say its a fair trade.

I'm not going to debate the price on an AON but you're fuckin crazy if you think thats a fair trade. The fact is aon is still 200k+ and the lance is already selling for as low as 50k.

[Crede]

Given that the aon has dropped since the beginning of time, aon is super over inflated on price. Anybody willing to spend over 100k on an item that still drops and has dropped since server release is a bit nutty. Id say its a fair trade.

Can confirm this outrageous price is classic. I made millions of pp selling AoN on live well into Omens of War expansion. I'd zone into fear on my monk after a patch, pop my disc to absorb DT, burn golem, and FD before the rest of the zone wrecked me.

Chezetro, if you're out there from Rathe/Karana, thanks for making me rich for so long!

[remen]

I'm not going to debate the price on an AON but you're fuckin crazy if you think thats a fair trade. The fact is aon is still 200k+ and the lance is already selling for as low as 50k.

I would rephrase that as the lance is still being auctioned as high as 50k by tunnel rats trying to manipulate the market. I guarantee you that not one lance has been sold for anything remotely close to that.


Edit: in before boutik posts from his different forum handles that he in fact has sold many at this price and more. Outright lies are cool though he is just playing the market!

[Veleria]

You can get an exquisite 2h for 5-6k. with the primary hand bonus, they are just as good or better due to min/max damage relations when hitting high level mobs. It's unlikely many people will suddenly switch to using this who weren't already using it. 55 + Pal/SK who don't have their epics or a better not drop item is a very small population.

[fan D]

i just bought one for 93k

[derpcake2]

if you love pixels let them rot

[Cecily]

if you love pixels let them rot

[Troxx]

It doesn't have 45ac or a 150dd+ stun proc so i wouldn't swing one if i had one

[Troxx]

38/40 monk 2hb (they skill cap at cap with 2hand blunt) sells for 5k

just a fyi

[hagglebaby]

Already have Great Spear of Dawn.
Good luck, boys and girls.

Would this still be the better option against a non-undead mob because dawncall wouldn’t proc but blood boil still would.

Thanks

[enjchanter]

I sold mine for 21k earlier and I'm HYPE

[Ironwind]

The blue server market is ran by a lot of greed, I concur. Trust me, I hate a lot of it too, but you have to ask yourself, who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who buys from the fool.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

The blue server market is ran by a lot of greed, I concur. Trust me, I hate a lot of it too, but you have to ask yourself, who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who buys from the fool.

Exactly. Fuck Boutik and fuck people who do business with him!

[Razdeline]

Item has garbage value. All classes that can use it incur a piercing penalty, you can't use till 55, epics are better.

[remen]

Would this still be the better option against a non-undead mob because dawncall wouldn’t proc but blood boil still would.

Thanks

The blood boil proc is negligible, unless you are soloing. Even then the better ratio would probably win out.

Quick math...at 170 dex you proc once every 40 seconds on average, and the dot takes about 2 minutes to reach it's full effect. So in group fights, there will be mobs you get 0 procs, and on mobs you get a proc you'll still only get a few ticks, which is like an extra 100 damage. Stuff doesn't stay alive long enough for the DoT to run its course.

The other problem with DoT procs is that they dont stack on each other. So even if you proc 3 times in a row it doesn't do any extra damage, it just extends the dot by a couple ticks and the mob is dead by then anyways. Whereas with a DD proc, 3 procs in a row do separate damage for each one and add up.

[kyrobo]

I would rephrase that as the lance is still being auctioned as high as 50k by tunnel rats trying to manipulate the market.

Adjusting the price of an item that has increased in value isn't "manipulating the market." When an item nerf/buff happens ad prices change and vary dramatically at first, because no ones sure how much it ought to be adjusted. Eventually Lance will settle to a stable and reasonable price.

[Bardp1999]

Trading CoS and Naradni Lance for Manastone/AoN/CoF/Fungi combo. Firm - PST to Kustt in game.

[Chardy]

If this were useable/proc'able at twink levels, I could possibly see the new price point.

At 55+, most of the people with 100k+ to blow have already spent a minimal amount of DKP on any one of the other better velious no-drops listed in this thread.

Proc is cool but already got on Bloodfire for warriors.

Meh item is meh.

[Nikkanu]

Trading CoS and Naradni Lance for Manastone/AoN/CoF/Fungi combo. Firm - PST to Nikkanu in game.

FTFY

[Nikkanu]

If this were useable/proc'able at twink levels, I could possibly see the new price point.

At 55+, most of the people with 100k+ to blow have already spent a minimal amount of DKP on any one of the other better velious no-drops listed in this thread.

Proc is cool but already got on Bloodfire for warriors.

Meh item is meh.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

FTFY

"Fair trade, F*** you"

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

It seems the price of the lance has for the time settled into a spot of 40-50k. I think it'll eventually stabilize to around 40k. It's not a completely useless weapon. But the fact that it has a level requirement and piercing caps are low makes it a seemingly non-optimal choice. Especially for folks who can grab any Nodrop/notrade for some dkp off various raid bosses.

This lance like many other items are more often than not being sold / bought for vendor purposes. Meaning the item has more value to people looking to flip it or make a profit than it does to people who will actually use it. This goes for a lot of items in the Eastern Commonlands market. Arguing that "this or that weapon is better", or bringing up potentially valid points like the ideas I mentioned in my first paragraph mean very little compare to it's resale value.

The price points established on many items in EC are not necessarily established on the pretense of the items practicality, but on how much it's worth in the market. You can equate this idea to some real life hypothetical examples: For instance, lets say a widely known online shopping warehouse were to be composed of a majority of buyers/sellers who we're only looking to make money off of resales. Their prices would solely be based off of what other re-sellers would buy the item for, and so on and so forth. If someone was selling a popular book, it would more than likely be sold to someone looking to buy that book at a cheap price and sell it for a profit, not to someone who actually wants to read the book.

[remen]

Tunnel rats have lowered their /auction price to 40-50k . I want people to think it'll eventually stabilize to around 40k so I can rip them off by trying to trick them into paying 30k now.

Saved you a whole bunch of words. The rest of your post is arguing that the item should have more value because all the tunnel rats are going to be buying from each other as investments, which is some extra dumb logic.

The fact is, there is no evidence that anyone has even paid as much as 25k for one of these. Sorry you got stuck stockpiling a bunch of lances.

[Nikkanu]

I love the intense effort people in this thread have put into trying to make people think these are going for 20k+ so they can offload all the ones they bought up to resell for a profit, when they are in fact are not selling for that much. :P

[Sonderbeast]

Can join AM and get one for free

[Bardp1999]

Boutik is trading Lance's for Fungi's so you know the price is about to really hit the shit gutter in the coming weeks. If the item had no level requirement it would be pretty good, since it does...IDK. I like the item because I love playing my Shadow Knight (I have all ToV gear though, not a peasant like most of you) but the truth is there just are not a ton of high level Pallys and SKs on the server because they are not raid classes.

[aaezil]

weapon sucks move thread to resolved

[DromalPhrenia]

Boutik is trading Lance's for Fungi's so you know the price is about to really hit the shit gutter in the coming weeks. If the item had no level requirement it would be pretty good, since it does...IDK. I like the item because I love playing my Shadow Knight (I have all ToV gear though, not a peasant like most of you) but the truth is there just are not a ton of high level Pallys and SKs on the server because they are not raid classes.

Hey now, more than once I've seen people ask WHY DON'T WE HAVE A PALLY?! So we do need, like, 3 paladins total.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Saved you a whole bunch of words. The rest of your post is arguing that the item should have more value because all the tunnel rats are going to be buying from each other as investments, which is some extra dumb logic.

The fact is, there is no evidence that anyone has even paid as much as 25k for one of these. Sorry you got stuck stockpiling a bunch of lances.

I dont have any lances. Nor do I want one. I think you misunderstood me. Im not in favor of anything here, nor am i siding with "tunnel rats", or anyone for that matter. The very fact that half of the posts in this thread are blaming boutik or whoever, or the very subject of this thread is targeting those very same "tunnel rats", or even the idea that YOU yourself have some seemingly personal conflict over the subject (based on how I am perceiving your tone in your comments) suggests that the "tunnel rats" have a lot more stake in this than you are convincing yourself otherwise. Not just in concrete values, but in general sentiment.

And no I don't have "evidence" of what these lances are being sold for, because i'd imagine that would involve recording ones trades through some software such as OBS studio or the like. But I spend extended periods of time in EC, and i'm reporting the values that I see. IF you want to refute that, go ahead.

[Troxx]

Amongst the 55+ knight population (not big) ...

-every knight with a NToV weapon doesn’t want one (to include alts from the big guilds who can snag one such weapon for dirt cheap dkp.
-every knight with epic probably doesn’t want one either
-every tunare paladin with velious mini epic probably doesn’t want one either

So that leaves you with the 55+ main (or alt) knights not in a big guild who probably either doesn’t HAVE the money or isn’t willing to spend big money on Lance.

The potential market for this lance is very tiny. I suspect there are twice as many lances on the market as there are knights willing to actually use it (much less spend big money on it).

Tunnel rats can ask whatever the want; nobody’s going to buy them.

[Molitoth]

This server hates me. First I give all my plat to a guard, next I sell my lance a couple days before the price jumps from 15k to 90k. I’m fucking done

As many others have mentioned:

Pricing is usually done by supply/demand.

There is little demand for this weapon, and plenty of supply.

Tunnel rats are going to ask 50-100k all day long and never get it.

[Veleria]

The market here is too easy to manipulate. Those who know the way the tools gather data can arbitrarily inflate the prices on the sites leading to an impression of value. This item will be inflated and then bought by speculators thinking they are getting a good deal buying them for 5k under "market value" then they will spend weeks trying to sell them and eventually realize no one wants them. I have an SK and I didn't buy it when it was 15k I'm certainly not going to want one at 50. Do yourselves a favor and don't let the tunnel rats trick you into buying this at a "cheap price".

[Octopath]

As many others have mentioned:

Pricing is usually done by supply/demand.

There is little demand for this weapon, and plenty of supply.

Tunnel rats are going to ask 50-100k all day long and never get it.

I jumped the gun on my rage.

[mattydef]

Amongst the 55+ knight population (not big) ...

-every knight with a NToV weapon doesn’t want one (to include alts from the big guilds who can snag one such weapon for dirt cheap dkp.
-every knight with epic probably doesn’t want one either
-every tunare paladin with velious mini epic probably doesn’t want one either

So that leaves you with the 55+ main (or alt) knights not in a big guild who probably either doesn’t HAVE the money or isn’t willing to spend big money on Lance.

The potential market for this lance is very tiny. I suspect there are twice as many lances on the market as there are knights willing to actually use it (much less spend big money on it).

Tunnel rats can ask whatever the want; nobody’s going to buy them.
As someone who has both an SK and pally with epics, I can confirm I would never use this lance for anything other than a toy to slaughter low level mobs with while my disc is popped on my paladin for random crits.

[elwing]

I can't say for paladin, but for sk, the 20 skill point penality on piercing makes up for the ratio difference between the epic and the lance... Any sk with epic would be dumb to get this weapon (except maybe to switch for a boil blood proc while epic dot is on? Maybe...)

[elwing]

Item has garbage value. All classes that can use it incur a piercing penalty, you can't use till 55, epics are better.

You are wrong there...
Sk get piercing capped 20point lower than all other melee weapon skills. Paladin get the same cap on all melee weapon, including piercing, to compensate they have 5 less offense than sk... For paly that lance seems to be a solid option, no penality and a proc they can't cast... But the market is tiny, 55+ paly without epic nor tov weapons are not the majority..

[aaezil]

I mean dont buy from boutik and those like him and all your problems are solved. Self-correcting situation.