Wiki told me how to roll a Cleric

[choppedandglued]

This all isn't that big of an issue with me now. For the most part, I just pick whatever race I think looks the coolest for my character. To my point. A while back when I read up on clerics before chosing my race (when min/max was uber important to me for some reason) I decided on Human Innoruuk. Why you ask, well the wiki says this, "*Note: With the release of Velious, Humans are a very strong candidate for best race (if they choose Innorruk)". So taking every word to heart, and not knowing enough about the game to actually research what was going on, I rolled human innoruuk. Now I wasn't completely new to the game, as I played live right when it first came out for a year or so, but I was a young kid and didn't know much of anything so I never got far in the game.

So, today I'm like man there had to be a reason I chose an evil deity, as I've been killed at a high level and lost xp because of it. I'm reading the wiki and run across this in reference to character creation. "However, Humans have the ability to make up for their lower strength with the Disciple Symbol of Innoruuk"

Disciple Symbol of Innoruuk
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: NECK
AC: 5
WIS: +2 INT: +1 MANA: +7
Effect: Siphon Strength (Must Equip, Casting Time: 6.0) at Level 5
WT: 0.1 Size: TINY
Class: CLR SHM
Race: HUM DEF TRL
Deity: Innoruuk

So your telling me, making up for lacking the strength of a dwarf is compensated by clicking this item every 6 minutes on a mob? Also all of the Innoruuk Human Cleric only gear pales in comparison to pre-raid gear. Was the person writing this information on crack? Mind you I'm not mad at my decision at all, I'm just confused as to why all of that was wrote in the manner it was. It seemed pretty suggestive that if you rolled human inny cleric your gonna be the hottest thing smoking. :confused:

[Solist]

90% of people writing that have very little clue about the top end or elite of solo/duo play, endgame raid etc. Play what you love to look at. What you enjoy looking at is by far the most important thing.

Humans dont need an AoN to navigate kael like a gnome does
Humans get snare neck clicky and an extra clicky (deadeye helmet)

Gnomes can see through walls.
Gnomes have a pretty nice aggro clicky.

Both can wear robes which is excellent. Innoruuk human or bertox gnome are the only realistic choices from a minmax perspective. Human has more starting charisma.

Neither can hide (is not good now its not IVU too since 2012).
Hlflings can sneak. Sneak is nice for 1-2 random quests in the game, and sneaking past 2drakes in VP (hardly an issue).

So play what you love or you could argue the points for weeks and never make a decision because its all irrelevant really.

[choppedandglued]

Both can wear robes which is excellent. Innoruuk human or bertox gnome are the only realistic choices from a minmax perspective.


Will you elaborate on this?

[Ostepop]

Not sure if trolling or you genuinely missed the point. Continue the quest chain and get
https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk

[choppedandglued]

Not sure if trolling or you genuinely missed the point. Continue the quest chain and get
https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk

So that necklace makes them the best cleric, because they can cast a level 4 necro spell?

[Ostepop]

Snare is useful. No other cleric race/deity combo get a snare clicky, as far as I know. How good that is depends largely upon you.

[choppedandglued]

Snare is useful. No other cleric race/deity combo get a snare clicky, as far as I know. How good that is depends largely upon you.

well im not going to wear that necklace if mine is way better, just for snare. Especially when I have a high level root that lasts for like 3 minutes.

[Ostepop]

well im not going to wear that necklace if mine is way better, just for snare. Especially when I have a high level root that lasts for like 3 minutes.

They stack, and it's possible to swap it in to click. Sounds like you'll get very little out of it. As said, its' usefulness is playstyle dependent.

[choppedandglued]

They stack, and it's possible to swap it in to click. Sounds like you'll get very little out of it. As said, its' usefulness is playstyle dependent.

I feel like for your point to be valid you would have to be specific on how exactly this would work. Give me one example how in late game you would use this necklace, and it would be of great benefit enough to say that it's somehow made innoruuk humans the best clerics?

Also, why would you stack something on your root that risks breaking root? For a meager 40 damage? I think if you looked at it in the long run the loss of risk by not using that spell on something you have rooted would far outweigh using it. When clerics get hit, they don't take it that well so not taking aggro is pretty important at all costs.

[Ostepop]

I feel like for your point to be valid you would have to be specific on how exactly this would work. Give me one example how in late game you would use this necklace, and it would be of great benefit enough to say that it's somehow made innoruuk humans the best clerics?

Also, why would you stack something on your root that risks breaking root? For a meager 40 damage? I think if you looked at it in the long run the loss of risk by not using that spell on something you have rooted would far outweigh using it. When clerics get hit, they don't take it that well so not taking aggro is pretty important at all costs.

Bruh. I didn't write the wiki, so I'm not making any claims. No need to strawman me.

I'll give you one example.
Duoing a tough dungeon. Mobs flee at 20%. Root breaks at a bad time have the potential to cause adds. With snare on, the mob will stand still in flee mode from 20-0%hp. Rooted it will be fighting back. In this scenario, snare adds safety and takes away 20% of the time the mobs are actively fighting back.

[Psyqo]

Also, why would you stack something on your root that risks breaking root? For a meager 40 damage?

Clinging Darkness doesn't have an initial damage component (like poison or disease DoTs) so it won't break root. DDs and DoTs with initial DDs can break root.

[choppedandglued]

You guy's are completly ignoring my question, and the whole reason why I made this thread. DEF can Hide and use https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk. So why does wiki say : "*Note: With the release of Velious, Humans are a very strong candidate for best race (if they choose Innorruk)"

[aaezil]

I mean the class guides are mostly written by random noobs, anyone can post on wiki

[Rufus1]

You guy's are completly ignoring my question, and the whole reason why I made this thread. DEF can Hide and use https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk. So why does wiki say : "*Note: With the release of Velious, Humans are a very strong candidate for best race (if they choose Innorruk)"

Are you sure you're not mad about the choice you made? You seem mad about it

[loramin]

For what it's worth, I re-did the cleric racial advice section awhile back, and it's now much clearer about every race/religion combination's benefits:

Innoruuk-worshipers can get the Regent Symbol of Innoruuk and other Innoruuk-worshiping Cleric items. Also their faction lets them complete quests for Dread Forged Shield, Fright Forged Helm, and Terror Forged Mask, which are difficult for other religions.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Cleric#Picking_the_Right_Race (you might want to see the actual page because there were a bunch of links in that quote that didn't copy over)

That bit about Humans being strong candidates was not written by me. I had no skin in the game when I wrote that section (not having a Cleric myself I tried very hard to write it as neutrally as possible), but clearly a biased human cleric edited it. I'll fix it.

[loramin]

Update: I reverted that change from the wiki. It looks like its only been there since the 2nd of December so hopefully it didn't mislead too many people ... although honestly I don't think Humans are a bad option at all, they're just not one of the best.

Again, to be clear I have no skin in the game and nothing against (Innoruuk) Humans being considered a good race ... but I put a lot of time in breaking down every race's advantages there, and if someone wants to claim that a given race is good, they can't just edit the wiki to say so: they have to explain on the page why humans are one of the best racial choices (despite having low Wisdom and no other redeeming qualities except their clicky item and some halfway decent Paineel gear).

[Ostepop]

The helm is instaclick? Looks like a good gcd reset.

[choppedandglued]

Update: I reverted that change from the wiki. It looks like its only been there since the 2nd of December so hopefully it didn't mislead too many people ... although honestly I don't think Humans are a bad option at all, they're just not one of the best.

Again, to be clear I have no skin in the game and nothing against (Innoruuk) Humans being considered a good race ... but I put a lot of time in breaking down every race's advantages there, and if someone wants to claim that a given race is good, they can't just edit the wiki to say so: they have to explain on the page why humans are one of the best racial choices (despite having low Wisdom and no other redeeming qualities except their clicky item and some halfway decent Paineel gear).

Holy shit, somebody who not only answers my question, but fixes the problem. I was losing faith.

[bigjeff100]

Holy shit, somebody who not only answers my question, but fixes the problem. I was losing faith.

That's cause Loramin is the man!

[Diogene]

Human clerics of Innoruuk coz snare neck, GCD helm, robes, fear mask clicky, best looking cultural. They’ve got quite a few points in their favor. Now, none of these are game changers, but it adds up

[Zipity]

Bc with snare Clicky and fear you and your enchanter buddy don’t have to share exp with a tank to charm a rogue pet and destroy shit?

[Foxplay]

Cleric race doesn't really matter, end-game only thing that matters is your ability to cast CH in a chain and your mana pool... which is for the most part gear based

having some str (dwarf) is helpful for sure, but isn't a game changer... other races can still get by just fine

Snare neck (innoruuk) is nice in certain situations, but again isnt some enourmas boon, for the most part your still just a healer

Seeing thru Walls (gnome vision) is very helpful at times, but if you know most of the game already is whats around or thru wall number 1 really going to surprise you?

Erudite have a wisdom hit... big woop endgame gear says hello...

High elf has high starting Wisdom and a pretty good bracer quest.... ok so if your moderately geared a slight bonus to your mana... but again a gnome or erudite that didnt put a single point into wisdom at char select with endgame gear could have more wis / mana than you... aside from that you get better CHA for lull / calm?

Halfling you could say has the only real big benefits - Hide (Dark elves get too) , and Sneak (no other cleric race gets this) and a small exp bonus.... there is definantly situations sneak can be good (cheating faction for quest turn ins, getting by something that see's invis but not sneak.....but in the end situational

In the end much like the rest of the racial debates the differences and bonuses are very minor... only in situations where one race has a benefit and the other race has no benefit whatsoever for the class combination is there really a "min/max" difference (example - Iksar Monk)

[Irulan]

Whatever class u roll u should put all points in cha

That way u won't be a loser

[Jimjam]

This is probably my fault.

I'm a loud mouth on the forum, and repeat things enough to make my advice look good to new / unestablished players. Truth is I am just another idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, after my crusade espousing halflings to be the greatest of all warriors, I decided to testify the merits of Innoruuk.

In short the position was they had the most entertaining quest content levelling up. Obviously they have access to the snare necklace, opening up fear kiting as a strategy for killing/cc, but unlike dark elves humans also had access to the Erudite quest items in paineel, which are basically fun and functional (although at one point offered improved mana regen iirc). Finally they also have access to wider areas thanks to their racial faction modifier. All this for the minor price of losing hide.

It looks like someone took my insane musings and ran with it in the wiki. So either it was my influence, or it was a confluence of opinion, in which case if two people independently came up with it, maybe it is right?