enchanter animations and the pet exp nerf

[guineapig]

I felt like this deserved its own thread since the other threads I posted in have been reduced to less than constructive conversation:
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The only problem with using the exp nerf penalty as opposed to simply removing pet faction is that enchanters that attempt to solo with their animations get severely screwed.

When an enchanter uses his/her pet to solo they rely on haste, slow, possibly runes, the berserker spell line, stuns and maybe feedback (although feedback isn't that efficient when you are slowing mobs).

So basically the enchanter is doing a hell of a lot with his mana and nuking or doting doesn't always make sense.

If the server went the exp route instead of the faction route then enchanters would have to be excluded from the fix (they can't AFK level anyway).

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This is all coming from experience. Before we get clarity at level 29 nuking or doting mobs is a horrible way to use mana while soloing because all it does is cause extra agro which makes us either have to root or rune ourselves. Our utility spells are much more mana efficient and we use them to keep our pet alive as opposed to doing extra damage.

Enchanters need to do a hell of a lot in order to be able to solo effectively, we are constantly casting spells through every encounter. Asking an enchanter to now do more than 50% of the damage to the mob in addition to everything else is an outrage. It basically reduces us to burning through our mana pool for every kill.

This was not well thought out for ALL the classes it's effecting.

Please feel free to discuss and tell me if I'm missing something.

[zt004]

No sympathy for enchanters ;)

At least you can still solo. Seems like 50% exp nerf is a great alternative to being a class that has to sit there with LFG on until some group takes pity on them.

You might find that there are more people who are happy about this change than people who sympathize with enchanters, especially considering the number of enchanters who walked around LGuk soloing every available camp with charm.

[excalis]

This was someting that was added to live at one point correct? I remember people would use a type of clickable item that would dmg the mob for the exp gain (don't recall if it was full or half).

I guess it will be a bit tougher for my necro, way worse for chanter. Just wondering at what point did this get added on live and if it was during PoP (which we will not be going to) then it should not be put in place, right?

If it was Kunark or Velious then it still needs to be left out till one of those expansions get put in place also...maybe?

This sucks, but after reading about the AFK leveling deal I figured this would come soon, just not this soon. I guess chanters will have to struggle or group from the get go.

I just read the previous post and was under the impression that charm was broken or way risky, but now I see that enchanters ruled the camps with charm?

[Wrei]

Will it seriously hurt you to duo your way to 50? Or worse group up in a full group situation (like the chanter class was DESIGNED to be)? Why is it the end of the world to find another partner to group with? It will be faster xp with the right class combination (well even more so with the patch change). So let's not try to make the enchanters a "special" case (considering how overpowered we were) the nerf should apply to ALL players using any sort of pet.

[guineapig]

No sympathy for enchanters ;)

At least you can still solo. Seems like 50% exp nerf is a great alternative to being a class that has to sit there with LFG on until some group takes pity on them.

You might find that there are more people who are happy about this change than people who sympathize with enchanters, especially considering the number of enchanters who walked around LGuk soloing every available camp with charm.

You missed my point. Other pet classes can still outdamage their pets, enchanters can't... at least not without having to med for 2 minutes after each kill.

If you never played an enchanter from level 1-29 then maybe I can understand why this is so difficult to grasp.

Hell, even after clarity, our nukes are terrible for agro and mana efficiency and our dots only exist for the debuff component, not the damage.


And finally, you are not punishing the enchanters that you saw soloing in Lguk, you are punishing new players. Why does everybody have this vendetta?

(And you want to know what? I for one grouped exclusively from 30-50, you can ask anybody that knows me and they will vouch for that. )

[excalis]

I guess there are still classes that cannot solo as well as an enchanter (warrior maybe?). It will be tougher but maybe not to bad, would have to try one to see for sure.

[yaaaflow]

Lol yeah there are classes that can't solo as well as enchanters. For example, all of them.

[excalis]

So before this change, chanters soloed better than all of the classes?

[The Situation]

In two patches the enchanter has gone from the best solo class to a class that will rely on groups/partners. I'm okay with this.

[guineapig]

Will it seriously hurt you to duo your way to 50? Or worse group up in a full group situation (like the chanter class was DESIGNED to be)? Why is it the end of the world to find another partner to group with? It will be faster xp with the right class combination (well even more so with the patch change). So let's not try to make the enchanters a "special" case (considering how overpowered we were) the nerf should apply to ALL players using any sort of pet.

Seriously stop trolling dude cause you have no idea what you are saying.
Since I'm sick of writing it over and over again I'll just copy my response to you from the other thread you are trolling:
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Actually I soloed with no gear pretty much until level 29. Enchanter is my main and first character on this server, and it was on live as well.

I didn't start getting groups till I had clarity (29). Unless you're in a dungeon enchanter usefulness is limited before then (not useless but MUCH less sought after).

So yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I work long hours, I'm married and I don't have 2 hours a night to LFG, I leveled up at odd times, an hour here, an hour there. I soloed till 29 because I had to! I grouped from 30-50 because I wanted to. I prefer playing in groups, ask anyone that knows me. I actually used to get mocked in OOC for being LFG all the time instead of soloing when I was in my 40's.

You obviously don't know anything about me as a player and how dare you try to tell the community how they should be playing the game.

Try adding something useful or go troll elsewhere.

[guineapig]

I would like to clarify that if the nerf is intended to deal with AFK leveling then I am against it because it does not stop AFK leveling in any way.


If it is intended to encourage playing in groups then I am a little less against it but I still think the penalty is a bit steep. Also, if this penalty was to encourage playing in groups I find it odd that it's being implemented now when AFK leveling is the hot issue.

[Malrubius]

Ignoring the trolls for the moment. I think the real question here is whether the 50% pet nerf existed in classic. It might have, but I really don't recall. Anybody know?

If it did exist, I'm pretty sure it did not for chanters. Or maybe it didn't for charmed pets. If that were the case, then chanters would have a virtually perma-50% xp nerf.

Please no more whining about getting a group. If everyone were required to get a group on this server, then it sure wouldn't be anything like classic EQ.


Oh, and yes, Charm was broken and way overpowered. I hated that. I, and gp, and many others advocated fixing it since it wasn't classic and allowed way-too-easy unskilled levelling.

Now something else is broken and I'm advocating fixing that too. Who wouldn't?

Once you start saying FIX PROBLEM A BECAUSE IT HELPS ANOTHER CLASS, but, DON'T FIX PROBLEM B BECAUSE IT HURTS ANOTHER CLASS, then you lose a lot of credibility.

[The Situation]

If that were the case, then chanters would have a virtually perma-50% xp nerf.

...soloing.

Ranger, Paladins, SKs, and Bards have a 40% exp nerf always. QQ

[Excision Rottun]

...soloing.

Ranger, Paladins, SKs, and Bards have a 40% exp nerf always. QQ

This is a feature of CLASSIC era Everquest.

Pets taking 50% exp if you don't do 50% damage is a feature of PLANES OF POWER era Everquest.

Congratulations, you're either a troll or an idiot.

[vageta31]

The only problem with using the exp nerf penalty as opposed to simply removing pet faction is that enchanters that attempt to solo with their animations get severely screwed.

The main problem with zero pet faction is it trivializes a lot of lower level dungeons for pet classes. I'm a shaman and can't bring my dog out solo in some of the mid level dungeons because it aggro's everything in sight. If it had no faction I could easily blow through and farm that content 3x as easily without using mana. Not that I'd mind, but it makes pet classes even more powerful.

[guineapig]

The main problem with zero pet faction is it trivializes a lot of lower level dungeons for pet classes. I'm a shaman and can't bring my dog out solo in some of the mid level dungeons because it aggro's everything in sight. If it had no faction I could easily blow through and farm that content 3x as easily without using mana. Not that I'd mind, but it makes pet classes even more powerful.

This is a valid response that I did not consider.
Thank you for posting this.
Do we know how this was dealt with (if at all) on live?

[Zanti]

Do we know how this was dealt with (if at all) on live?

It wasn't done in classic but pet faction was eventually removed.

Even so, I doubt that EQ's bad pathing was created with the intent to stymie the inherent abilities of pet classes. Though it did make things a bit interesting from time to time :D.

[Wrei]

I'm trolling? When your regurgitating the same verbal diarrhea in 3 separate threads about the same issue? You keep saying how 50% is unfair for players with limited time. That was NOT the issue you brought up on your post. You stated that an enchanter should NOT get penalized because we are NOT like necro or mages (the whole we can barely do damage with dots/nuke) to overcome that 50% penalty. Now your spinning the argument into this whole "no pet class should get penalized".

I did quite well and had fun doing it. Soloed crushbone with my animation.
I soloed aqua goblins next. Then KFC. Then Splitpaw spires. After that I started grouping because I had clarity.

Saying that it sucks and is a waste of time is an opinion, not a fact. I disagree with you as will many enchanters who never charm soloed on live.

Did you ever try to solo as an enchanter without a charmed pet or are you simply talking out your ass?
Stop trying to speak for everybody.

I never started charming until I hit 49, and chose to group because it was more efficient to do so. Everyone on this server has limited time your not the only one with RL priorities here. Finding a partner to level with (that matches your play hours) will not only make your grind quicker but also more enjoyable.

Solo animation chanter vs grouping chanter grind is not even worth the debate. If you feel like doing 3 times the work for 5 times the grind then you are correct, it IS a matter of opinion (good luck with wasting so much of your limited play time).

I'll stop chipping my 2 cents if you stop making retarded threads about the same shit every hour.

[Gandite]

Seriously enchanter animation pet is worthless past 20-24. Hell if its even remotely viable at that point I'll be damned surprised. I know I can say for a fact that before this nerf I didn't see enchanters running around with their animations killing shit past Crushbone. It just isn't very viable.

Enchanters are a utility class. You can buff, slow, haste, mez, charm, and cast clarity starting at 29. The only reason an enchanter could possibly have a hard time getting a group is because the server already has too many of them.

Guinea I can understand where you are coming from but it really is incredibly small potatoes. We're talking about 1 class from level 1 - 20 or 24 at the absolute max. Animation pet isn't that great and on the whole enchanters are not losing out on very much at all. I really don't think you're going to find a lot of enchanters upset about this. However if you go to the other line full of enchanters pissed about their charm being nerfed I think you'll find plenty.

[Cubehacker]

This is a feature of CLASSIC era Everquest.

Pets taking 50% exp if you don't do 50% damage is a feature of PLANES OF POWER era Everquest.

Congratulations, you're either a troll or an idiot.

I was the one who posted the info about the 50% damage giving 50% of the xp on the forum yesterday which prompted the devs to implement this. Where did I get this info from? An archived EQforum/castersrealm post from May of 2000. Thats around the time of Kunarks release, WAY before PoP. In other words, this was always a feature of classic, and thats why the devs felt to implement it.

As a matter of fact, pets actually used to take up xp (a small amount) IN GROUPS too, which would cause grouped individuals to ask their fellow necros/magicians/enchanters to get rid of the pet when grouped. This of course angered a lot of people, so it was changed to take 0% when grouped. but the 50/50 rule was always there.

[Malrubius]

However if you go to the other line full of enchanters pissed about their charm being nerfed I think you'll find plenty.

Are there really? I guess there must be but I haven't noticed it much. I was one of the many chanters begging for charm to be nerfed back to the way it was in 1999. I know there were others.

Bit of a sidetrack here...
Think about it. Would you really want your main class to be given some incredibly overpowered ability that made everyone and their brother play it and succeed whether or not they were any good at it? Wouldn't that make you, a skilled <insert your favorite class here>, kind of annoyed?

Sorry - this last point isn't really directed at you Gandite. Just the general perception that Enchanters are up in arms about their overpowered charm being nerfed to normalcy...is...misguided imo.

[Uaellaen]

rogean already stated in the news thread thing that it will be changed to suck 75% exp unless 1 damage is done ...

[Scrooge]

The biggest woe to enchanters is the fact that we rely on CC to kill, and barely have any DPS of our own unlike all the other pet classes. I mean c'mon...our best DoT right now is 33/tick. (And I agree with what you say, Malrubius)

[guineapig]

The biggest woe to enchanters is the fact that we rely on CC to kill, and barely have any DPS of our own unlike all the other pet classes. I mean c'mon...our best DoT right now is 33/tick. (And I agree with what you say, Malrubius)

But to be honest, we all knew that going into the class. I for one always figured that charm would not stay the way it was which is why I didn't really bother to use it outside of a few LGuk and Solb exp groups in my 40's. I didn't want to become reliant on it.

[siinge]

i dont mind changes going through like they did on live... but this is not a classic change

if your gonna do this please add in all the current spell date to live, all the newb spells that were not added till post ldon

if your gonna make changes like this

pets never took any xp hits, afk levling was legal on live and it was not changed till post kunark

its part of the class its crap but it was classic, along with hell levels, charm changes, class penalties

if thats the case remove all class and race based penalties, so i can make a troll sk that has the same bonus as a halfling warrior wich is lives fastest least based exp char to lvl

this is so un necessary because a few qq about afk lving, its now where near as fast as live solo play, and light speeds behind group bonus live play

im not even high enough nor do i play a pet class to take advantage of such "un fair abilities".

Where is breeze? Where is post pop mage utility, and everyone elses piece of pie.

If this is a true classic server wich you try so hard to emulate, remove this and stop the qq

Hell i was in upguk and some frogs are dropping kunark quest pieces for illusion iksar

or put in trasnlocators and a working bazzar

yes mad