What type of PVP server would you want

[Lasher]

inc poll

[Misto]

I've waited an entire 3 mins for your poll. I demand a handjob.

[Misto]

if it was team based

wouldnt we be unable to talk to the other teams

Dark vs Neutral vs Light

thats whack

[Foxx]

should be like rallos zek, +- 4 levels, and with no level range in raid zones

also, a big fan of team pvp breaking it down into race wars

whites - human, barbarian, ogre
blacks - troll, erudite, dark elf
smalls - gnome, dwarf, halfling
elves - half elf, high elf, wood elf

FTW... and whatever side is getting slaughtered the worst get first overall draft pick, acquiring iksars when kunark is released

[Salty]

Team pvp is weak

[Bombfist]

Salty get me some characters to test.

[voidd]

Team based or nothing!

[Salty]

Team based or nothing!

I look forward to pushing your face in for not backing up servers when you patch

[Macken]

If you didn't vote 1-50, you are a blue pussy.

[Macken]

So far 16/22 or 68 percent are pussies.

When server comes out, It's gonna be like shooting fish in a barrell. Sorry Salty.

[wehrmacht]

This poll is completely useless. Nearly every pick has 8 level PvP range in it. Nobody wants to play on a server with immortal healers. So whoever reads this thing, just ignore that 8 levels thing entirely.

Stop trying to repeat the mistakes of TZVZ all over again. Playing with immortal healers is just as awful as PvPing on a server where people are allowed more than one IP so everyone you fight is dragging a healbot behind them.

Next problem is that the majority of people that vote FFA, no teams, are people that think they should get to control and win the server just because they start with a guild of 40 people on day 1. They'll zerg the poll on here just like they plan to zerg the game when it goes live.

I went over all the stuff in this post on how to make a server that lasts over 1 month: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31288

[Jigga]

Next problem is that the majority of people that vote FFA, no teams, are people that think they should get to control and win the server just because they start with a guild of 40 people on day 1.

Fishbait,which you were part of i believe, started off hands down as the biggest guild and it didnt fair well for them.

This is where you follow up and cry about heresy hacks or GM favortism that gave them an edge over the 50+ fishbait that got shit stomped

[wehrmacht]

Fishbait,which you were part of i believe, started off hands down as the biggest guild and it didnt fair well for them.

This is where you follow up and cry about heresy hacks or GM favortism that gave them an edge over the 50+ fishbait that got shit stomped

As reposted from other thread:

I was in Holocaust, a guild with like 5 people. There was absolutely no way in hell to stop Heresy from taking over the server with our tiny numbers so me and Maverix joined Fish Bait out of pity so Heresy didn't have free reign over the server. Lethdar/whorella came sometimes too.

The numbers at PvP raids were practically even. I think Heresy even had more a lot of the time because they went and zerg-mass recruited guilds like ROFLCOPTER and Tallon Zek Times people.

[Hasbinbad]

flawed poll..
3 options for ffa style splits up those who want ffa into 3 seemingly smaller groups while consolidating the team group in one option..

I would bet that if you add the three ffa styles that they will always outnumber the team options numbers.

[wehrmacht]

flawed poll..
3 options for ffa style splits up those who want ffa into 3 seemingly smaller groups while consolidating the team group in one option..

I would bet that if you add the three ffa styles that they will always outnumber the team options numbers.

You also ignored the problem that like 90% of the PvP posters on this board are Heresy members who all want FFA even though it leads to nothing but a shitty server that implodes after 1 month.

We also already had one of these polls a LONG time ago on the TZVZ boards. Searyx put it up and I think teams won by 55/45 split then. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was really close on that board.

[AffEcT]

I am a bit surprised that team got the votes.
Team is not very good for balance if you ask me.

I played RZ and SZ and a little TZ and i think RZ was better in the PvP balance since it was FFA.
The PvP lvl range was awsome from SZ but it was the team thing that i think kinda screwed the balance.

Evil team = SK, Necro minus Druid, Paladin
SK and Necro are two of the strongest PvP classes in the game.
No shit evil team won the server =P

Team PvP is really not a good idea since it limits things. Limitations are not always good imo.

[AffEcT]

I guess it depends on what kinda team server it will be.
SZ style with deity based teams or VZ/TZ with racial teams.

Could be team based server with no limitations on race or deity but that would kinda lose the point and one team
would probably just get more numbers and dominate the server anyway.

A guild can also mass recruit players but you can limit a guild to an amount and players can ally with or against a common enemy.
Always known as Politics....

But with a team based server you are kinda stuck. Just the idea of not being able to kill some jerk who is giving you the finger, because he is on the same team....

[wehrmacht]

I am a bit surprised that team got the votes.
Team is not very good for balance if you ask me.


If you think teams aren't very good balance, you haven't played TZVZ FFA server. The balance is so bad that a guild named Heresy will create a zerg of 40 people on a population of 100 server then after everyone quits because it's terrible, they have to split their guild into two and Rexx leads one guild and Knuckle leads the other guild and they fight each other. Wow that sounds fucking awesome?



Evil team = SK, Necro minus Druid, Paladin
SK and Necro are two of the strongest PvP classes in the game.
No shit evil team won the server =P


SK and Necro are the least of reasons for why evil dominated the server. We didn't even have one single SK in my guild because it was looked down upon as a no skill idiot class so nobody wanted to be "that guy". Then we had 2 necros at raids out of 28 people.

It wasn't until something like PoP era that you saw guilds like Hate with 10 SK's at a raid of 40 people.

There's plenty of info on why things turned out on SZ the way they did in this post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=253275&postcount=25

The good team only managed to field one guild (black prophecy), but if the numbers below are anywhere near correct, it wasn't because population issues. They had too many noobs and casual players or something. If you combined the good and neutral team for creating this server, you really have no damn excuse for why evils would win except for incompetence.



Best Guess Server Population
--------------------------------
These population estimates are based on the assumption that everyone level 6 and above were either killed or killed someone atleast once during the month. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do without more help from Sony.

August '02
Good: 1485 - 33.2%
Neutral: 1201 - 26.9%
Evil: 1783 - 39.9%
September '02

Good: 1941 - 34.0%
Neutral: 1485 - 26.0%
Evil: 2279 - 39.9%

December '02

Good: 1904 - 33.7%
Neutral: 1367 - 24.2%
Evil: 2384 - 42.2%

January '03

Good: 2310 - 33.9%
Neutral: 1675 - 24.6%
Evil: 2834 - 41.6%

Febuary '03

Good: 2276 - 36.1%
Neutral: 1483 - 23.5%
Evil: 2554 - 40.5%

March '03

Good: 2162 - 35.8%
Neutral: 1486 - 24.6%
Evil: 2386 - 39.5%

[AffEcT]

If you think teams aren't very good balance, you haven't played TZVZ FFA server. The balance is so bad that a guild named Heresy will create a zerg of 40 people on a population of 100 server then after everyone quits because it's terrible, they have to split their guild into two and Rexx leads one guild and Knuckle leads the other guild and they fight each other. Wow that sounds fucking awesome?

I have played VZTZ from the very start (Digital/Arrows) and i know that the server was a bit screwed up.
But come on.... Yes Heresy zerged and whined like bitches wen the same thing happened against em.
They even got them selfs a wipe that basically destroyed the server.
But that doesn't matter. Some ppl are just no lifers. They will do whatever it takes to stay on top.
Doesn't matter if we have team or FFA. This will always be the case.


SK and Necro are the least of reasons for why evil dominated the server. We didn't even have one single SK in my guild because it was looked down upon as a no skill idiot class so nobody wanted to be "that guy". Then we had 2 necros at raids out of 28 people.

I am not claiming to know everything like some ppl do.
But i was just saying that this could have been
one of the issues on the balance front.
And i think that players should be able to play whatever race class they want to.

[wehrmacht]

On topic: I came from a race wars server, was fun, but always ends with everyone "X-teaming" anyway, so the reason of doing race wars really fades away quickly when everyone goes x-team anyway.

You can't Xteam on a 2 team sullon zek type server. Can't heal or buff the other team. The only thing you can do is log on the side that's different from your main then train your own team. If there was to be any rule on the server, it should probably be prohibiting that.

[Lasher]

Good Vs Evil looks neat but i want to pvp over raids, and spawns, and rare mobs which can happen on a good vs evil but you can easily bring a group to Efreeti in solb and find a same team camping it and in those situation and blue sever and a red server do not differ

[wehrmacht]

Good Vs Evil looks neat but i want to pvp over raids, and spawns, and rare mobs which can happen on a good vs evil but you can easily bring a group to Efreeti in solb and find a same team camping it and in those situation and blue sever and a red server do not differ

If people on the same team are camping the efreeti....that's called grouping...

They have to be on different teams to be "xteaming"....

I have no idea what your post is supposed to mean.

[Salty]

Because you are fucking stupid Wehr.

Naez goes Neut, some blues go neut. Both are at efreeti. Naez can only train the other guy out instead of kill him.

Salty goes Evil, Harrison goes evil. Guess we can't pvp each other now.

group to Efreeti in solb and find a same team camping it and in those situation and blue sever and a red server do not differ

If people on the same team are camping the efreeti....that's called grouping...

[Penoy Lives]

Make Rallos Zek circa 1999..... item loot!!!

[Xantille]

Voted for 3rd option, FFA +/- 8 levels. Not because of OMG HERESY BIAS, but because a) I want to kill who I want, not have to group with them, and b) cross-team invul healing will be a problem regardless of how many teams there are.

And if x-team healing is hardcoded out, it's not hard to make an invul character on the other team to train the shit out of them.

FFA ensures that the majority of EQ problems get sorted how they should: by the PvP, bro.

[mitic]

why do ppl always suck when they create polls here

team based lvl 5-50 range

[Hughman]

3rd option, knowing the type of people that played on vztz if its 1-50 new players will spend all day getting killed by 50's that have nothing better to do.

[Macken]

Voted for 3rd option, FFA +/- 8 levels. Not because of OMG HERESY BIAS, but because a) I want to kill who I want, not have to group with them, and b) cross-team invul healing will be a problem regardless of how many teams there are.

And if x-team healing is hardcoded out, it's not hard to make an invul character on the other team to train the shit out of them.

FFA ensures that the majority of EQ problems get sorted how they should: by the PvP, bro.

So disapointed in all the VZTZ voting for +/- 8.

/duel = x-team healing on most servers.

FFA is way more fun and realistic, but because most people won't rise up themselves when they can't just simply join the top guild, teams supports more population.

[Foxx]

FFA is way more fun and realistic.


ya cause we all play EQ cause its so realistic pal

[Alawen Everywhere]

Team based 1-50.

I am intimately familiar with the plight of the good team on Sullon Zek. Black Prophecy didn't exist until almost a year into the server. The first big guild was Sect. Then Sect exploded because that wood elf warrior whose name I can't remember and Miloie were ripping everyone off. Then there was a time of only shitty guilds like Northern Lights of Halas and Bringers of Retribution. Then there was Divine Vigilance which was pretty good but... Miloie drama again. Then there was the short-lived Trump, which was arguably the best of the good team guilds. Finally, Black Prophecy emerged under the leadership of Damiax. Everything comes down to two things: not enough clerics and only one warrior, Frosthound. For a while we had another good warrior, Katrina, but during the early days the leadership made it clear that she was never going to get gear so she rerolled to an SK and joined Ruin. She was an awesome PVP partner. Love you, Kat, wherever you are! The cleric and tank problem was insurmountable. Remember that dwarves were neutral, so our paladins were shitty stats combined with no gear. We had no SKs, leaving only a handful of warriors. We literally maxed at three clerics for a long, long time. To top things off, we had no good guild or raid leader until Damiax. I don't even remember who was the supposed leader of Trump, because it was very democratic.

tl;dr The failure of the good team on Sullon Zek had nothing to do with races and everything to do with missing necessary classes and terrible leadership.

That dark vs light thing has me thinking--what if we divided something like this:

Dark:
Troll
Erudite
Dark Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Iksar

Light
Ogre
Barbarian
Human
Wood Elf
Half Elf
High Elf
Gnome

That's off the top of my head; I'm trying to figure out a logical way to get rangers on the dark team. I think every other class is available in a decent race to both teams.

[Walk]

personally i would be happy with a rallos zek type server or a sullon zek, i always though vallon/tallon were for bitchs personally no offense to my red bro's

[wehrmacht]

That dark vs light thing has me thinking--what if we divided something like this:

Dark:
Troll
Erudite
Dark Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Iksar

Light
Ogre
Barbarian
Human
Wood Elf
Half Elf
High Elf
Gnome


I'll add it to original page on my post after I double check it to make sure there isn't some kind of serious malfunction.



/duel = x-team healing on most servers.

That can easily be fixed.


FFA is way more fun and realistic, but because most people won't rise up themselves when they can't just simply join the top guild, teams supports more population.

First semi-logical Macken post. You REALLY underestimate how low the population would be for FFA P1999 though. EQ is a group based game for PvE and this server will be 1 IP per player. We had boxes to help PvE and level on TZVZ and this server won't, leveling takes longer too.

Do you think anyone not in one of the large guilds will want to play on server like that? Or any new players to the server in general? They aren't going to want to solo to 60 with normal xp rates, especially if they play a pure melee. People will flee from the server faster than Salty from a naked woman.

Once again, Heresy destroys the server by all their guild voting FFA. Have fun playing with 40 people online.

[Walk]

FFA is better, if ppl are gunan QQ so much drop the level range to +-4 lvls to pvp instead of 8, i mean if you all want teams we should just have vile do his QvF server again...i mean what if you dont like the people that rolld on ur team, you cant even kill them cause there on your team + i think everyone will flock to the side that the pro basketballers chose

[wehrmacht]

I added another possible choice for teams (if the server goes teams) on the long ass page I did at:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31288

Race War using race as selection variable: Probably the best choice since each team gets every class. Some people will whine because one team has troll and ogre tanks. Trolls aren't even good on a PvP server because they have 5 fire resist. Barbs are just as good if not better due to practically the same stats and no gimped fire resist.

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

[Lasher]

I added another possible choice for teams (if the server goes teams)



it wont

[wehrmacht]

it wont

Hey, if you want another completely empty server with just 30 heresy and 30 random other people, go for FFA instead.

[Foxx]

lol yea, half elves would need a new starting city if that was the case lmao... nobody would hit lvl 2, surrounded on all sides by the good guys -- therefor no rangers, druid, paladin or bards would ever survive to play with their evil compadres

btw, what "good" race get SK? gnome sk isnt classic eq. sorry man i don't like that team split at all. people need to get off this "good vs evil" stuff, nobody cares about roleplaying (at least the people who are interested in red emu server, minus the harbingers people!).

so ya, sorry wehr i don't like that breakdown at all.. IMO, even teams would be like:

would be cool to break it down by "hemispheres" of the old EQ map... antonica on one team (with erudites in Odin, or whatever its called), and the other side would get the other continent i dont know the name of and kunark

team antonica
ogre
troll
barbarian
human
erudite
dark elf
halfling

team kunark
iksars
gnome
dwarf
high elf
wood elf
half elf


team antonica still has the slight advantage for PVE imo, but not by much.... no matter how u split it, whatever side gets ogre war is going to have a slight edge in PVE just because.

let me know what u think wehrmacht and other friends.

[wehrmacht]

lol yea, half elves would need a new starting city if that was the case lmao... nobody would hit lvl 2, surrounded on all sides by the good guys -- therefor no rangers, druid, paladin or bards would ever survive to play with their evil compadres

That's such a weak excuse. Goods and evils both start in freeport so it's not like everyone isn't going to be battle royale from 2 seconds in.




btw, what "good" race get SK?


Humans duh

[Lazortag]

Okay, so I'm reasonably shitty at pvp and won't claim to know that much about it, but I think the server should go with teams. This isn't really my preference, but I think it's just better for the longevity of the server to give people more safety. The people who post on p99 every day about how much they want a pvp server aren't representative of the whole population that likes pvp - most pvp players are more casual and would prefer a server that was a little less hardcore. Notice how quickly Mortalquest's popularity went down, and how often people ragequit on that server. If you're a casual pvper and everyone outside of your guild (if you're even in one) is a potential enemy, you probably won't last that long. And yeah, it sucks that if someone is on your 'team' and you get into a dispute with them or otherwise can't stand them, then you can't do shit about it unless you have an alt of the opposite alignment, but I think if eqemu is going to have another pvp server, Rogean is going to want it to last more than a month and have a consistent population of more than 50 people.

I have some ideas about what the teams should look like, but I need to think about them more. Basically I think it should be based on class, race, and religion, with there being a "one-drop rule" regarding evilness (ie, being the slightest bit evil (belonging to an evil race, class, or religion) puts you on the evil team).

[Jigga]

Teams just opens door for poopsocking and we all know we love that aspect of p99

[Foxx]

wehrmacht, you honestly think half elves would have a fighting chance? i honestly see zero hope for them if they can only start in gfay and qeynos/freeport i guess they can start in too, altho ive never played one so im not sure on the human cities for them.

not here to shoot down what you're saying, I just don't think anybody would be able to survive as a half elf, you think so?

and yea, i forgot human could be sk... prob cause nobody in their right mind would ever play one, but ur right human can play sk

i still like my setup the best (even tho i am against team server, i prefer FFA 100%) just giving my input on a team setup since I have nothing else to do right now lol. only problem with my setup is how bluebie it would be at the beginning, with nobody to pvp until you leave the continent

[Smedy]

FFA is the way to go, otherwise you're scared of competition! Sandbox style pals

[Knuckle]

Immortal healers are a huge problem on a one boxxing server. <<<<sarcsm
Team based stuff can be abused pretty bad, right? More coding work for the devs, it does sound cool though, if it can be done legit.
I like VZTZ system, it worked, but it should be 10 levels. +- 10 levels. and all levels in raid zones.

[wehrmacht]

I think the server should go with teams. This isn't really my preference, but I think it's just better for the longevity of the server



Most the people wanting FFA even agree teams would have more longevity. Don't think I saw one person try to debunk the first page analysis. I like to be able to attack anyone I see, but I'm not stupid enough to vote for an option that is going to cause the server population to be half or less of what it could be. I could easily imagine P1999 red getting an even higher population than regular P1999 if it went teams.

EQ PvE is group based. With only 1 IP allowed per player and slow leveling, going FFA is suicide for population. Imagine being a new player to server not in a guild playing some stupid class like a dwarf rogue. You're completely unable to solo, you look around and there's nothing but a couple 30-40 man uber guilds, anybody you try to group with kills you. There goes the server population.

Is there anyone that actually disagrees with the shadowrest stuff from the first page plus all the other things? The only thing I see in dispute is FFA vs Teams. I tried to list everything that would keep server population high as possible and keep GM involvement as low as possible. Don't really even need server rules at all with that setup which will be a nice change from TZVZ.



not here to shoot down what you're saying, I just don't think anybody would be able to survive as a half elf, you think so?

They won't be any worse off than the enormous freeport area battles that will ensue. That's the whole point of the server, you have to kill off the other people to take zone control. Heresy won't have less people to fight, you will be fighting off MORE people.



(ie, being the slightest bit evil (belonging to an evil race, class, or religion) puts you on the evil team).

You can't use that methodology because there aren't enough evil races and no evils with access to druid, paladin, and ranger either. The absolute closest you can do for a semi-believable roleplay setup and still give each team every class is the following setup:

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

[toxic8]

good VS evil 1-50

[Cribanox]

trying to level at level 10, lvl 50 comes up and kills me, how is not wanting to deal with that being a pussy? All the wolves wanna play here i get it, but when all the sheep quit itll be pretty boring.

[Alawen Everywhere]

trying to level at level 10, lvl 50 comes up and kills me, how is not wanting to deal with that being a pussy? All the wolves wanna play here i get it, but when all the sheep quit itll be pretty boring.

Pussy.

[Aerist]

Mippo has valid points, but then again, like he has asked us MANY times. There is no proof that his whole teams concept would retain any larger player base than a FFA server.

Personally if you don't have the ability to kill someone in your level range, its not pvp. So basically Mippo wants instanced pvp with a side of blue. No thanks

[Lazortag]

I tried to list everything that would keep server population high as possible and keep GM involvement as low as possible. Don't really even need server rules at all with that setup which will be a nice change from TZVZ. ...


This is basically what I was going for. I guess I didn't read the rest of the thread very well and misunderstood what people were arguing about.


You can't use that methodology because there aren't enough evil races and no evils with access to druid, paladin, and ranger either. The absolute closest you can do for a semi-believable roleplay setup and still give each team every class is the following setup


You forgot Bards, but still I don't think it's that uneven. I don't think each team should get every class - that's the point. There should be incentives to join certain teams, like wanting to be a necro and solo easily (or being an ogre SK/warrior and having the most stamina), forcing you to be evil. Also I could be wrong, but I think dark elves are already one of the most popular races, so there are strong non-strategic incentives to go evil already. In addition to that, there would probably be people who'd just prefer the challenge of going evil if it handicapped them a bit. I don't believe it would be as bad as you say.

Lastly:

I could easily imagine P1999 red getting an even higher population than regular P1999 if it went teams.

Let's not kid ourselves. Surely a red P99 would have a consistently high population (in the hundreds, minimum) but pvp has always been less popular than pve.

[wehrmacht]

Mippo has valid points, but then again

You would need borderline down syndrome to think I'm mippo. I was already level 50 and I think in serverwide top 10 kills before Mippo even started playing. Then after Mippo did start to play, Salty guild invited him and we were in the same guild, online at the same time for like 2 weeks straight. Mippo is also from VZ, I'm from SZ.



There is no proof that his whole teams concept would retain any larger player base than a FFA server.

Yea dude, there is so little evidence that you're the first person to try and make that claim in the entire thread so far. Most the people that want FFA even agree teams population would be higher. I don't recognize your name at all so lemme guess, you're another Heresy member that plans to start day 1 with a guild of 40 people and don't care about the long term health of the server, just your own guild?



I don't think each team should get every class - that's the point. There should be incentives to join certain teams

If you look on the first page, I already listed two team setups, one with race wars and one with good and evil by diety. The diety based one is more realistic from a roleplay perspective but less balanced. I would go with the one divided up by races.

http://poopspant.com/pvp/2.png

[Bruno]

Team pvp is bad. So is killing level 1s. I guarantee none of the 6 people who voted for it would make it an hour, especially with someone like the Dongshow camping you for hours at a time.

[wehrmacht]

Team pvp is bad. So is killing level 1s. I guarantee none of the 6 people who voted for it would make it an hour, especially with someone like the Dongshow camping you for hours at a time.

Nobody wants to play on a server with invulnerable healers due to PvP level limit. You're post about Team PvP being bad isn't very convincing when you can't even list a reason why. Can't debunk anything from my original first post about Team vs FFA PvP either.

[Macken]

Team pvp is bad. So is killing level 1s. I guarantee none of the 6 people who voted for it would make it an hour, especially with someone like the Dongshow camping you for hours at a time.

Talking about 1st choice? I voted for it. What's your guarantee?

[Bruno]

Nobody wants to play on a server with invulnerable healers due to PvP level limit. You're post about Team PvP being bad isn't very convincing when you can't even list a reason why. Can't debunk anything from my original first post about Team vs FFA PvP either.

I'm not here to convince you, nor do I really care about your opinion on it. I've been playing this game long enough to know what is what, what works, and what suits me. I don't get trapped in these retarded never ending arguments.

[wehrmacht]

I'm not here to convince you, nor do I really care about your opinion on it. I've been playing this game long enough to know what is what, what works, and what suits me. I don't get trapped in these retarded never ending arguments.

You don't have an argument. All you said was "that sucks". You could give no reasons why. Nobody takes feeble minded posts like that seriously. You also just admitted you only want something because it "suits you", not because it actually would be good for the server long term. Why do you think Macken posts are so annoying? He does the same thing. He can't list any reason why anything he wants would actually be a good idea. He just expects people to magically consider his opinion valid with no logical reasoning behind any of it.

There are middle school children putting together more sound arguments than you people.

[Bruno]

You don't have an argument. All you said was "that sucks". You could give no reasons why. Nobody takes feeble minded posts like that seriously. You also just admitted you only want something because it "suits you", not because it actually would be good for the server long term. Why do you think Macken posts are so annoying? He does the same thing. He doesn't list any reason why one thing is better or worse than another.

Does that make you angry?

[wehrmacht]

Does that make you angry?

It doesn't matter to me, just don't expect anyone that's actually working on the server to read your post and do what you're talking about if you present an idea with no logical explanation. They'll probably assume there's no explanation because it's just someone's stupid whim that revolves around self interest. The only reason I bother typing anything at all is because I don't want to play on a deserted server.

[Bruno]

It doesn't matter to me, just don't expect anyone that's actually working on the server to read your post and actually do what you're talking about.

I was actually expecting an in game title for the priceless wisdom I spilled in a thread made by Lasher.

[Lasher]

Oh, You will get your title!

[mimixownzall]

Team PVP is better for those new people who dont have a guild to join. Being by yourself in a FFA is pretty shitty.

[wehrmacht]

Team PVP is better for those new people who dont have a guild to join. Being by yourself in a FFA is pretty shitty.

Which is why Ultima Online was originally a full FFA PvP game then they changed it to two worlds: Felucia and Trammel. One where you can PvP and one where you can't.

It wasn't because the PvP was too hard. It's because most monsters and loot were in dungeons and people would form guilds of 30 people and zerg all solo players to death. Unless you had the hide skill or were good at spamming the gate button (recall), the game was completely unplayable due to all the zergs. Maybe if you logged in at 5am it was playable.

FFA always ends up with big problems like this that result in a majority of the population quitting. I still like UO and like the FFA nature of it. It gets by because the PvE is completely solo based and you can always go off in some remote location in the middle of a swamp and kill lizardmen. EQ is almost entirely group based for PvE so FFA makes little sense in this game.

You can't go off and kill stuff in a remote location for fun and loot in EQ. You're funneled into dungeons and planes for stuff like that. Since you're already going to be forced to group with other people for PvE, you might as well start off with teams in the first place if you want to have PvP enabled.

[minakto]

of the teams you have suggested which one will have you playing on wehrmacht?

[Macken]

You don't have an argument. All you said was "that sucks". You could give no reasons why. Nobody takes feeble minded posts like that seriously. You also just admitted you only want something because it "suits you", not because it actually would be good for the server long term. Why do you think Macken posts are so annoying? He does the same thing. He can't list any reason why anything he wants would actually be a good idea. He just expects people to magically consider his opinion valid with no logical reasoning behind any of it.

There are middle school children putting together more sound arguments than you people.

You are the most confused individual on these pvp threads. I've only ever contradicted your obtuse claim that 100mr = 100% magic resist for CC spells on SZ during launch.

Wether or not it's in my hypothical best interest has no bearing. It's the way it was. It's not what i want, it's the way it was. I don't need to provide support for the good idea, it's the way it was. I don't need magic, it's the way it was.

I think you are getting hung up on the fact i busted you out for being a poser on SZ.

ROOTED, HALP????

[wehrmacht]

of the teams you have suggested which one will have you playing on wehrmacht?

Whatever the opposite team of Heresy is. If they made it team based using the list below which is the best, most balanced one imo, I would go on the human's side unless Heresy was already there:

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)
-------------------------
Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)
--------------------------
Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

[wehrmacht]

I've only ever contradicted your obtuse claim that 100mr = 100% magic resist for CC spells on SZ during launch.

I said 100-120MR and it's probably more like 96-99% resistant. They probably cap it somewhere under 100%. All I know is that it's so high that nobody ever bothers casting root on EQ live PvP during this era. You're completely full of shit if you claim people were landing root in PvP during Kunark or Velious PvP. I don't care what the actual percent was. The only important thing is that it never landed. You didn't play during this time period so you're just making up lies by claiming you know anything about how it worked.



I think you are getting hung up on the fact i busted you out for being a poser on SZ.

You busted me for being a "poser" on SZ? What does this even mean? Can you speak english so I can figure out what you're talking about.

[minakto]

In 3.0 in vztz Heresy resulted in seperating into 2 guilds and fighting at each other. Bigger names of Rexx,Xant,Skunky,Lasher,Vile, and HPT were split up fighting at each other. Heresy will even be around for a p99red?

[Bombfist]

<Oceans 11> Recruiting.

[minakto]

I can be amazing yen the greasemen?

[wehrmacht]

In 3.0 in vztz Heresy resulted in seperating into 2 guilds and fighting at each other. Bigger names of Rexx,Xant,Skunky,Lasher,Vile, and HPT were split up fighting at each other. Heresy will even be around for a p99red?

I guarantee all of those people (and 20+ more) will be in the same guild on day 1 zerging down everyone. If server goes FFA instead of teams, Heresy gets a free, happy meal prize victory just for showing up with the most people. With teams, there would at least be some kind of counter insurgency.

Even if another guild showed up with enough semi-competent players to deal with the Heresy zerg, everyone that's not in one of those 2 guilds would quit if server is FFA. Teams is like the only way to maintain decent population.

[minakto]

What prohibits Heresy to rolling in one team as a zerg( evil?) and shit stomping good guild aswell as steamrolling through pve.

I see you trying to hinder big guilds which i like but i see it not mattering.

Heresy you say is zerg and zerg is related to other competition of guilds. 40 heresy in guild is zerg if next guild is 20-25. Next guild is 30+ then it is not a zerg.

If heresy true zerg then they will defeat opposite team and smother out guilds on same team of heresy. Goods will be beaten and will stop playing or roll again to evil.

Good vs Evil sounds fun to me but i dont see it stopping a zerg.It will hinder other guilds recruiting prospects. Heresy will be guilded together be it FFA or good vs evil. in FFA 2nd top guild has entire server to recruit from to contest heresy. Good vs evil 2nd top guild has near to half the server to recruit from to compete against heresy

[Lasher]

Real question is whats going to stop wehrmacht from joining the bigger zerg in the " attempt to prevent the heresy zerg". Wehrmacht is ok with zergs, he just doesnt like heresy. Like the shitty english speaking dude said, heresy split on on last box. Wehrmact will nut hug his way into any guild that will protect his rectum from getting raped again. Wehrmacht is afraid of big guild competition and doesnt want to step up to the line to compete. Fishbait was always bigger than heresy and we ended up winning. Then heresy fought EIU and the fights were good, EIU were even winning alot of the fights but an individual in EIU went crazy with hacks and the server got shut down.

heresy wont be around on p99 red. Alot of heresy doesnt play anymore or doesnt play together anymore. I stopped playing on last box for a while and when i came back i joined up with a crew that was mostly non heresy, i think we had like 5 people that was in heresy in the guild i was playing in until the server was taken down by voidd and keegan

[wehrmacht]

What prohibits Heresy to rolling in one team as a zerg( evil?) and shit stomping good guild aswell as steamrolling through pve.


Because historically on team based EQ PvP servers, everything doesn't revolve around guild vs guild. On Sullon Zek for example, evils had control of karnors. If a good team guild showed up to Karnors and tried to do Venril Sathir, they would end up fighting not only the top evil guild for the spawn, but also random other evil guilds trying to kick the good team out of their territory.

It's kind of rare but some fights on team based servers will have the entire server show up to them.


If heresy true zerg then they will defeat opposite team and smother out guilds on same team of heresy. Goods will be beaten and will stop playing or roll again to evil.

Due to what I said above, it's less likely to happen.

Wehrmact will nut hug his way into any guild that will protect his rectum from getting raped again.

The amount of plat I looted off corpses made Rexx and Xantille look like impoverished, Somalian children.



Heresy you say is zerg

Screenshot from Heresy leveling in Oasis

http://ecospaces.wikispaces.com/file/view/Overpopulation_pool.jpg/38396802/Overpopulation_pool.jpg

[Xantille]

It's OK, I understand now.

Wehrmacht wants a Teams server so he can join whichever side the "Heresy zerg" (made up of people who fought each other for the last year) is on, thus preserving his relative anal virginity. Sounds pretty blue, brah.

I also never saw you yt anyone. Except Knuckle.

[wehrmacht]

It's OK, I understand now.

Wehrmacht wants a Teams server


Even with the Entire Heresy guild voting for FFA, thus rigging this poll, it still turned out 45% teams, 55% FFA so far. The original poll Searyx did had 55% teams, 45% FFA.

[Bombfist]

Doesn't matter what the vote says anyway, the devs will decide what to do with the server, teams or not, just less people for me to dunk, oh well.

[Salty]

Wehrmacht is ok with zergs, he just doesnt like heresy.

It's sweet going against the best of the best. Especially the people that group up to take on the best players.

While wehrmacht may be a silly goose, he plays hard and that get's respect.

All the people who joined FB regardless of how retarded some may be, still had the balls to get out of the "treason" mode and actually contest things.


Personally, I'm thankful for the bad-asses of the redbox because if there wasn't anyone to contest the big things, there would be no big things.

[Salty]

Skunky was not good btw, I don't know why you guys hang around that guy but he constantly QQs because he feels like he is a box emperor like big Rexx.

Dude can't even hold his weight against blue salty

[Salty]

Lasher was easily the best druid on vztz, Thacilefen definitely deserves style points.

[Lasher]

Id say between skunky and I, skunky was a better 1v1er. I was more group orientated and defensive, skunky was more offensive. Different styles.

[Lazortag]

It's OK, I understand now.

Wehrmacht wants a Teams server so he can join whichever side the "Heresy zerg" (made up of people who fought each other for the last year) is on, thus preserving his relative anal virginity. Sounds pretty blue, brah.

I also never saw you yt anyone. Except Knuckle.

If I had to guess, I'd say the only reason a pvp server is being started is because eqemu currently doesn't have one (at least not one with a respectable population), and Rogean wants to keep eqemu somewhat diverse. Vztz's population wasn't all that impressive, but at least it was consistent (52 on average according to this link: http://www.eqemulator.org/index.php?pageid=serverinfo&worldid=807 though keep in mind it's been at 0 players for for a while now, so the average should be higher). Combined with the number of people here who have asked for a classic pvp server, it only made sense to make the server classic as well.

So if his likely goal is to start a popular server that further diversifies eqemu, it will (and should) probably go with Teams, even if that's not the preference of the pvp-tards who have swarmed the forums in the past few weeks (you guys are going to play on the server either way - don't kid yourselves). Teams are more appealing to people who don't organize into guilds right away and team up to mitigate class imbalances, so the "bluer" players as you would call them are less likely to ragequit after a few bad experiences. That being said, I think it's silly to lump everyone who is pro-Teams into some category of unskilled bluebie pussies just because you don't prefer that type of setup.

I don't see what all the bitching is about, since a popular server is in everyone's best interest - if there's more population, that means that there will be more pvp encounters because there will be more victims from which to choose (and the zones will be more densely populated).

wait.. why am I posting here?

[naez]

Skunky was decent, and gets points for being a solo pk. I remember a few times doing big things in chardok and all of a sudden having some skeleton with water dragon shield and a druid epic come "rain" on the parade.

Thacilefen was some blue transfer bard named Herroic who I farmed on live on my twinks and then later on my main and then I farmed him again on vztz. If I ever would have died to him I would have deleted game and quit being a pussy before I go to bed everynight and actually pull the trigger.

[wehrmacht]

Vztz's population wasn't all that impressive, but at least it was consistent (52 on average according to this link

It was 300+ for a while. There were lots of problems to cause it to die such as the following stuff that went on pre-kunark:

- person hosting server stopped

- bad balance issues like casters tanking the same as warriors

- boxing was allowed so every caster not only tanked like a warrior but also had full cleric buffs so practically no HP disadvantage either

- resists altered to make nukes land more often so a mage can tank like a warrior, have practically the same hp as one from cleric bot, do 10x the dps nuking, and have a pet at the same time

- resist system that made the server known as "caster's paradise" pre-kunark

- stats like strength did nothing

- FFA tends to die fast

- melee hit boxes or sync issues screwed up so you couldn't even hit someone running away from you which was easily doable on EQ live

- probably dozens more I can't think of

[naez]

Thacilefen was some blue transfer bard named Herroic who I farmed on live on my twinks and then later on my main and then I farmed him again on vztz. If I ever would have died to him I would have deleted game and quit being a pussy before I go to bed everynight and actually pull the trigger.

For reference, here's Herroic getting shit on hard by Singforme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEHUoDtVu2M. To be fair, Herroic was always a total scrub, and Singforme was def one of the better pvp bards to ever grace this game (besides me ofc),

[Xantille]

It was 300+ for a while. There were lots of problems to cause it to die such as the following stuff that went on pre-kunark:

- person hosting server stopped

- bad balance issues like casters tanking the same as warriors

- boxing was allowed so every caster not only tanked like a warrior but also had full cleric buffs so practically no HP disadvantage either

- resists altered to make nukes land more often so a mage can tank like a warrior, have practically the same hp as one from cleric bot, do 10x the dps nuking, and have a pet at the same time

- resist system that made the server known as "caster's paradise" pre-kunark

- stats like strength did nothing

- FFA tends to die fast

- melee hit boxes or sync issues screwed up so you couldn't even hit someone running away from you which was easily doable on EQ live

- probably dozens more I can't think of

I don't recall melee damage being a problem; I used a Monsoon until velious box. But obviously, given EMU mechanics, mages raped faces pre-Kunark w/ insta dispell sticks and pets that rooted you every time. Also, enough people casting lava bolt on the same person = death. I won't dispute that, but I seriously doubt it will be the same on a 'classic server'. However, my bolded part: running people down was always possible unless they were doing everything they could to get away, same as it ever was. You just can't be behind them when trying to hit them.

Also, here is a video depicting myself, Bombfist and Knuckle being introduced on a hypothetical Red99 server: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BqUBYaHlM

[naez]

for melee hit boxes on VZ/TZ I was going through Null's code and he made them a *6 mod in pvp (*4 is default pve). mod is applied after racial

[Xantille]

for melee hit boxes on VZ/TZ I was going through Null's code and he made them a *6 mod in pvp (*4 is default pve). mod is applied after racial

wot

If this post means what I think it means, I always felt gnome warriors had an advantage, even on Live.

[Lasher]

- melee hit boxes or sync issues screwed up so you couldn't even hit someone running away from you which was easily doable on EQ live

Obviously if wehrmacht couldnt hit people who were running and Xant could it meant Xant was speed hacking. amirite

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/cwz319/Xant-2.png

[naez]

wot

If this post means what I think it means, I always felt gnome warriors had an advantage, even on Live.

GetSize() may be just mean 1x original model, meaning all races have same hitbox. think the gm command #size . not sure will look into it.

the big hitbox mods are for dragon races

bool Mob::CombatRange(Mob* other)
{
if(!other)
return(false);

float size_mod = GetSize();
float other_size_mod = other->GetSize();

if(GetRace() == 49 || GetRace() == 158 || GetRace() == 196) //For races with a fixed size
size_mod = 60.0f;
else if (size_mod < 6.0)
size_mod = 8.0f;

if(other->GetRace() == 49 || other->GetRace() == 158 || other->GetRace() == 196) //For races with a fixed size
other_size_mod = 60.0f;
else if (other_size_mod < 6.0)
other_size_mod = 8.0f;

if (other_size_mod > size_mod)
size_mod = other_size_mod;

if(other->IsClient() && this->IsClient()) //Null: PvP size mod
size_mod *= size_mod * 6;
else
size_mod *= size_mod * 4;
if (DistNoRootNoZ(*other) <= size_mod)
return true;
return false;
}


the latest eqemu source has a slightly different formula

[Lasher]

means trolls obviously are the worst warriors for pking

[naez]

found it

switch (race)
{
case OGRE:
size = 9;
break;
case TROLL:
size = 8;
break;
case VAHSHIR:
case BARBARIAN:
size = 7;
break;
case HUMAN:
case HIGH_ELF:
case ERUDITE:
case IKSAR:
case DRAKKIN:
size = 6;
break;
case HALF_ELF:
size = 5.5;
break;
case WOOD_ELF:
case DARK_ELF:
case FROGLOK:
size = 5;
break;
case DWARF:
size = 4;
break;
case HALFLING:
size = 3.5;
break;
case GNOME:
size = 3;
break;
default:
size = 0;
}


so it actually doesnt matter for a lot of races, cuz if the size is less than 6.0f it goes up to 8.0f. gnomes worse than human or barbarian

[Lasher]

does that size just refer to how big the avatar is so the game can take in collision for factor?

Gnomes can squeeze into little places like the Safe hall in lower guk where obviously trolls cant, but if it was coded a troll had size 3 he would probably be able to get into small places because collision would be reduced

[naez]

not sure where/how that is calculated, but it probably does have something to do with the base sizes here. I do know that collision is a little funky in that for PCs anyways can walk like halfway through an ogre, he has like a little square in his belly that you lump over.


what i can say for sure is:

a gnome warrior jousting an ogre warrior, or any race, each will have the same range to hit eachother and use whos hit box is bigger

gnomes have same hitbox as trolls

human/highelf/erudite/barbarian casters have a slight advantage over others when kiting melees, ogre casters are at worst disadvantage

changing this line (specifically the NoZ part) will prolly get rid of 100000 feet high swords

if (DistNoRootNoZ(*other) <= size_mod)

trolls are worst pvp race

and that the newer eqemu hitbox formula is basically the same story

[Bombfist]

Best part of the thread was "You can't hit people running away"

WAT????

It's called adapting, to be better, i played that box with a 300 ping, and there is a way to hit people while they are running away, the stevie wonder looking people never figured it out, and asked why me and xant ran faster than others.

The better people ran in front of their target and watched yellow text happen. I'm not saying this was a good mechanic, i'm saying you can hit people running away, and it was easy to figure out how within about 5 minutes of playing.

[Dfn]

Team PvP is stupid. Let the players decide who they want and don't want to ally with. No need to impose it on them.

[Bruno]

Team PvP is stupid. Let the players decide who they want and don't want to ally with. No need to impose it on them.

Inc post by wehrmacht.

[wehrmacht]

Best part of the thread was "You can't hit people running away"

WAT????

It's called adapting, to be better, i played that box with a 300 ping, and there is a way to hit people while they are running away, the stevie wonder looking people never figured it out, and asked why me and xant ran faster than others.

The better people ran in front of their target and watched yellow text happen. I'm not saying this was a good mechanic, i'm saying you can hit people running away, and it was easy to figure out how within about 5 minutes of playing.

No shit bombfist, I think everyone figured out you had to run in front of people to hit them after 30 seconds of playing on the server. That's called *the hit boxes are broken* or some kind of sync issue. My ping was like 70 and still couldn't hit people from behind.

Your post was pretty funny pretending like you were some awesome player on TZVZ. The person you compared yourself to (Xantille) was in the top 10 kill list when they posted them pre-kunark, and what do you know, so was I. I didn't see your ass there.

[mitic]

why do ppl always suck when they create polls here

team based lvl 5-50 range (SZ style)

bump, this!

[Bombfist]

Ready gang;

UNPOSSIBLEZ>>>>>>>

so you couldn't even hit someone running away from you which was easily doable on EQ live

POSSIBLE!!!!!

No shit bombfist, I think everyone figured out you had to run in front of people to hit them after 30 seconds of playing on the server.

Dang wehrmacht why do you force me to make you look stupid.

http://www.vexthal.com/lolwat.gif

[Terpuntine]

Ready gang;

UNPOSSIBLEZ>>>>>>>



POSSIBLE!!!!!



Dang wehrmacht why do you force me to make you look stupid.

http://www.vexthal.com/lolwat.gif


/thread

[wehrmacht]

Bombfist's 3rd clip stolen from America's funniest home videos

[Bruno]

P1999 PvP Server Forums UP

http://www.p1999jihad.guildportal.com

Bye.

[Macken]

And how many out of those 3 owned wehrmacht?

[notahipster]

i think they should do team +8 - 8 pvp

Humans, high elfs, dwarfs, haflings as good
iksar troll ogre dark elf bad
half elf, barb, gnome, erudite neutral

newbie zones should be off limits, or maybe
no xp loss.

full loot would really make tradeskills come in handy. ;)

[Secrets]

I prefer SOE's ruleset (Sullon) myself.

They added so many restrictions in the default client that it's pretty hard to make anything else besides RZ +/- 5, TZ/VZ team based, and SZ deity based PVP servers.

Like, for example, they *hardcoded* the level restriction for kick/backstab/slam/etc but not autoattacking. That's fucking dumb.

All of those are possible in the current client btw ^_^

[wehrmacht]

2 teams works, more than 2 teams doesn't. The balance becomes too lopsided. Best possible team setup you could use if you want them both to be balanced:

Race War using race as selection variable: each team gets every class

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)
------------------------
Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)
-------------------------
Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

[Secrets]

more than 2 teams doesn't.



warhammer online, vile and I's version of qvf, WoW. do you need any more examples of where it did result in lopsided teams?

3-faction system works best, even if one team is outnumbered, that gives powergamers the chance to be the best on their team and get a reputation as a feared PvPer who defys odds.

2 teams results in one team steamrolling the other until there's no more pvp on one side. Why do you think Warhammer is dying?

[naez]

cuz its a shitty wow clone?

[wehrmacht]

warhammer online

Are you for real using this as an example. The game has probably already gone bankrupt. It's not because of their teams setup, it's because the game isn't fun to play regardless of what the rules are.


3-faction system works best, even if one team is outnumbered, that gives powergamers the chance to be the best on their team and get a reputation as a feared PvPer who defys odds.

I don't know a single person who played Sullon Zek at max level, endgame PvP that agrees with you. Everyone says 2 teams would have been far more balanced. It's not even disputable.

If you go with three teams, one of the teams will be completely powerless and useless to play on and will eventually be one of the main reasons to cause the server to collapse. Some people will reroll off that team, many others will just plain quit. It results in population reduction more than a 2 team server would see no matter what angle you look at it.

The only person that played the good team on this board was Alawen and he says pretty much the same thing.

[Jigga]

WHy try to split the teams up by race or religion? Beause of role playing blue shit?

if its going two teams, just have the teams identical. Its hard to forsee all the little things that might give a team an advantage or disadvantag.

You start your char and you get a book at lvl 1 and you can group with anyone up to lvl 6. Once your exp is full at lvl 6 it wont let you lvl until you turn in your book to a special quest npc. Turn your book into Team Orange or Team purple. Everyting in the game is the same for your character for faction.

[wehrmacht]

WHy try to split the teams up by race or religion? Beause of role playing blue shit?


Why have the characters use swords and magical spells instead of grenades, roadside bombs, and semi automatic hand guns when they could easily be added to the game?

[Rilkean]

Wehrmacht needs a race war in the game he plays so that he can act out his violent racist fantasies virtually

[wehrmacht]

Wehrmacht needs a race war in the game he plays so that he can act out his violent racist fantasies virtually

Rilkean I told you that baby isn't mine

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8427/daughterfail.jpg

[wehrmacht]

*space reserved*

[Macken]

2 teams works, more than 2 teams doesn't. The balance becomes too lopsided. Best possible team setup you could use if you want them both to be balanced:

Race War using race as selection variable: each team gets every class

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)
------------------------
Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)
-------------------------
Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf


You are ruining my immersion. A Paladin is no more evil than a Necro or SK is good.

[wehrmacht]

You are ruining my immersion. A Paladin is no more evil than a Necro or SK is good.

People whined saying good vs evil with restricted classes was unbalanced because non-evils didn't get Sk and Necro. It's a valid concern and the only way to solve it is that list I posted.

[Macken]

Are you for real using this as an example. The game has probably already gone bankrupt. It's not because of their teams setup, it's because the game isn't fun to play regardless of what the rules are.



I don't know a single person who played Sullon Zek at max level, endgame PvP that agrees with you. Everyone says 2 teams would have been far more balanced. It's not even disputable.

If you go with three teams, one of the teams will be completely powerless and useless to play on and will eventually be one of the main reasons to cause the server to collapse. Some people will reroll off that team, many others will just plain quit. It results in population reduction more than a 2 team server would see no matter what angle you look at it.

The only person that played the good team on this board was Alawen and he says pretty much the same thing.


I won SZ.

And i agree with Secrets.

There's a reason for 3 branches of government.

[Macken]

People whined saying good vs evil with restricted classes was unbalanced because non-evils didn't get Sk and Necro. It's a valid concern and the only way to solve it is that list I posted.


They are ruining my immersion

[naez]

There's a reason for 3 branches of government.


to prevent tyranny, yet it still failed. (edit: just like 3 teams did)

[Macken]

to prevent tyranny, yet it still failed. (edit: just like 3 teams did)

Then there is no hope for Wehrmacht.

This + root = wehrdoom.

[wehrmacht]

Then there is no hope for Wehrmacht.

This + root = wehrdoom.

These are like reading BennyRZ posts except every post is pro-heresy propaganda instead of anti-heresy

[Macken]

I can't stand Heresy, those zerging red griefers.

[Knuckle]

It was 300+ for a while. There were lots of problems to cause it to die such as the following stuff that went on pre-kunark:

- person hosting server stopped

- bad balance issues like casters tanking the same as warriors

- boxing was allowed so every caster not only tanked like a warrior but also had full cleric buffs so practically no HP disadvantage either

- resists altered to make nukes land more often so a mage can tank like a warrior, have practically the same hp as one from cleric bot, do 10x the dps nuking, and have a pet at the same time

- resist system that made the server known as "caster's paradise" pre-kunark

- stats like strength did nothing

- FFA tends to die fast

- melee hit boxes or sync issues screwed up so you couldn't even hit someone running away from you which was easily doable on EQ live

- probably dozens more I can't think of

dont forget casters tanking nagafen while warriors bound their wounds

[wehrmacht]

dont forget casters tanking nagafen while warriors bound their wounds

I wouldn't be surprised. I tanked Innoruuk from 80% to 0% on ranger while self healing with an occasional heal from Alloria.

[Jigga]

So you tanked inny from 80-0% with your 135hp heal, with an occasional heal from alloria? Was this the legit way or when inny fell through the floor AKA exploit kill?

[Xantille]

So you tanked inny from 80-0% with your 135hp heal, with an occasional heal from alloria? Was this the legit way or when inny fell through the floor AKA exploit kill?

Based on those screenshots Salty posted, FB had 100 air pets attacking through the wall. Super legit bros.

[wehrmacht]

Based on those screenshots Salty posted, FB had 100 air pets attacking through the wall. Super legit bros.

I will try not to intrude on Rexx's PvE accomplishments anymore

[Xantille]

I will try not to intrude on Rexx's PvE accomplishments anymore

Please. I'm the last person to parrot any PvE done in EQ as an accomplishment, especially given the fact that a group of trained monkeys could kill anything in Classic/Kunark/Velious/etc

But you saying that you tanked Inny (while self-healing, no less) with 1 other person healing is disingenuous, pal.

[Walk It Out]

I wouldn't be surprised. I tanked Innoruuk from 80% to 0% on ranger while self healing with an occasional heal from Alloria.

ya bro and i tanked all the VP dragons on Walk with self heals and small patchs from my boxed shaman <3

[Knuckle]

I used my 275 bindwound skill to solo kobolds on my max raid geared monk at level 60. I was able to continuously solo kobolds with no healer, I would just bind wound to 70% and then slay another kobold.

After I mastered that, I soloed VS using mend/regeneration potions with my shaman casting torpor.

[Macken]

Knuckle has EQ on EZ mode.

Here he is chillin with a drink while shootin hoops.

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=107949&t=o (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/107949/cocky-basketball.html)