Lets be real about P1999 PvP Server - Server Devs

[wehrmacht]

EQ P1999 PVP SERVER

You have two options and I will explain the consequences of those choices:

1 - Make a no teams, FFA style PvP server.

2 - Make a two team, dark vs light based, diety based, or race war type server.

I played Sullon Zek since day one and TZVZ for a long time. I'm gonna lay it out exactly how this works. If you make this PvP server a FFA rule set this is what happens:


FFA, no teams PvP server:


Day 1 you will see 30-40 man guilds pop up. There will be Heresy, some random TZ or SZ guild, and a few random blue server guilds that show up with a zerg of people. You'll probably have four or five viable or semi-viable guilds roaming around. Each guild will monopolize some area like Guk, Karnors, whatever.

After a few weeks, one of the guilds implodes and you're down to three. Now there will be two guilds monopolizing spawns, loot, and beating the shit out of the most likely lower population third guild. The demoralized 3rd guild starts bleeding members, some just plain quit, others join the 2 dominant guilds. Then the 3rd guild completely vanishes except that one guy who just got out of prison and logged back into the game at level 3 with now defunct guild tag.

Now you're a few months into the server with a constant day to day brawl of the two dominant guilds fighting for dragons. This goes on a long time and during this entire process, server will constantly drop in population. New players that join the server during this period of time will mostly be standing around by themselves, occasionally get ganked by a level 50, have nobody to group with, and solo their way to 50 because everyone on a FFA server is your enemy.

The majority of these new people will just plain quit. An occasional few will make it to the top but the server will be losing way more people than it's gaining due to this kind of alienation of the new player.

Now the server population is like 100 people: 30 people in guild A, 30 people in guild B, and 30-40 random noobs wandering around. The leader of one of the guilds gets charged with some kind of bestiality sex crimes IRL (probably Heresy). The guild disbands, only one guild remains, server ends.


Next choice is teams based server:


Similar number of people start on day one. The 30 man guilds move into their positions to try and monopolize some area. A random evil guild stands around on shores of oasis killing alligators and starts leveling fast. A low level crapling comes into the zone, see's them, and zones out to go tell all the other craplings. All of a sudden a giant tidal wave of low level craplings starts to pour into the zone and the highest level troll on the server will have 8 halflings clinging to him like some scene from Lord of the Rings.

All of the craplings die and the entire beach is covered in corpses but the uber, evil guild is completely unable to do any leveling so their progress is held back the entire day. The low level craplings then respawn in Misty Thicket and form a guild with the name "Flowers of Happiness".

This goes on for months. One or two guilds will eventually die but each of the two teams will maintain at least one uber guild and one casual or noob guild. At this point, the FFA server would most likely be in it's death spiral but the teams server population would be better off due to lack of alienation of the new or casual player. It might even still be growing.

The uber guild will constantly use their teams noob guild as human shields in order to defend themselves from attack while raiding so there will always be something to do, someone to attack, someone to group with.

The overall effect is much slower progression, more PvP, higher population, and the server's main zerg guilds have much less power and effect on the server world overall due to having to fight much bigger battles against more opponents. When one team's uber guild leader goes to prison, there will most likely always be a secondary guild ready to step in and take over the team and the server avoids collapse.

This rule set would basically be Sullon Zek type setup except with two teams instead of three. Three teams always implodes due to one of the three always ending up much weaker so it's not a viable choice.


Training, Corpse Camping, Other Random Cool Stuff

The way I feel on this issue is that if you can't hard code something, it shouldn't be a rule in the first place. It takes way too much manpower and there are too many variables involved in solving disputes about training and corpse camping. Even on TZVZ where there was a no-training rule with GM's enforcing it and banning people, you always saw people do it anyway. They'll make a 1 foot detour to the side while being chased and make it look like they accidentally did it or the best tactic of all, just run into a giant camp of mobs when someone is attacking you and you're about to die. The surviving guy then brings the huge train back to his guild and they both blame each other for training as everyone in the zone wipes.

I get the feeling the devs do not want this to be a high maintenance server so I only see one logical solution that fixes both of these problems at the same time. Give the priest of discord the ability to summon corpses after they've been dead X number of hours or just implement the shadowrest zone and all corpses pop there after X number of hours. This way you don't need any rules concerning corpse camping and training or really any rules at all.

Now if you're in Plane of Hate and someone trains you for fun (even when it would have originally been against server rules), you don't have a 48 hour long CR. You just log off and come back the next day and go summon your corpse at priest of discord or get it from Shadowrest. Some people are gonna start whining and say "omg training is so terrible omg, I don't want training to be legal". When I played Sullon Zek, training was encouraged and I never even died from a train once. I even had people like Fansy the bard running Sand giants at me. It's really not that big of a deal. You typically already know which direction the train is coming from and who is bringing it to you before it even arrives. So you either take off running, hide, gate, or kill them. It's a pretty easy element of PvP to deal with.

If I was to personally choose an arbitrary number, I would probably make the priest of discord or Shadowrest guy summon your corpse after it's been dead for 4 hours. I think that game mechanic would make it so death in enemy territory would have a long enough penalty but still doesn't prevent you from playing the remainder of the entire day.


Possible Team Setups


Race War using race as selection variable: Probably the best choice since each team gets every class

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf


Good vs Evil using diety as variable for selection: This setup tries to keep all the races like halflings and elves on one side and trolls and ogres on the other. Might have to disable selection of agnostic somehow because too many races get it. Good team gets no necros or shadowknights and evils get no rangers, druids, or paladins. Diety distribution looks lopsided but it doesn't really matter, People don't choose them equally and you basically just choose your team at player creation. Population on both teams would probably be similar. Evil has more offense, Good team has more healing.

Good team:

karana
tunare
elrollisi
brell
mithaniel
tribunal
quellious
rodcet
prexus
bristlebane
sol ro


Evil Team:

innoruk
bertox
rallos
cazic thule
veeshan


Expansions at Start


Most P1999 and TZVZ players are probably tired of original expansion with no kunark by now. I would either release Kunark on day one or make it so Kunark opens after Nag, Vox, CT, and Innoruk are dead.

[dredge]

.

[Nocte]

blah blah blah

Now the server population is like 100 people: 30 people in guild A, 30 people in guild B, and 30 random noobs wandering around.

blah blah blah

Because, y'know, fuck math. That shit has, like, numbers, and shit.

[wehrmacht]

Con: Spreads dervs and resources too thin, both server populations fall

Well they already said they were bringing one up so it's too late for those blue server complaints.

Both servers will be running mostly the same code anyway. It's just some flags added of who can attack and loot whoever. All of the actual changes are things like making hit boxes correct, resists and AC correct, etc. Those are development issues that will also help the blue server.

It's not like it's equivalent to releasing the Kunark expansion.

Because, y'know, fuck math. That shit has, like, numbers, and shit.

Another angry blue server player. I said "like 100 people", it's a synonym for "around". If you want to cry over a PvP server, don't beat around the bush and just get straight to the whining

[Zadrian]

Because, y'know, fuck math. That shit has, like, numbers, and shit.

I mean, that was pretty funny.

[purist]

Real talk.

[Penoy Lives]

item loot plz

[Rael]

I'd prefer racial teams

[Foxx]

race wars...

whites - barbarians, humans, ogres

blacks - dark elves, trolls, erudites

midgets - gnome, dwarf, halfling

elves - half elf, high elf, wood elf

[UrsusMajor]

race wars...

whites - barbarians, humans, ogres

blacks - dark elves, trolls, erudites

midgets - gnome, dwarf, halfling

elves - half elf, high elf, wood elf

Wait, midgets are a race?

[naez]

racists

hardcoded teams would be lame, should be guild vs. guild.


i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious

[Foxx]

Wait, midgets are a race?

yes, more like a subrace, but still a race

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Good team:

karana
tunare
elrollisi
brell
mithaniel
tribunal
quellious
rodcet
prexus
bristlebane
sol ro


innoruk
bertox
rallos
cazic thule
veeshan


The only issue is every warrior and bard can choose Rallos Zek as a diety, meaning you could cockblock the good team by having halflings, dwarves, wood elfs, half-elfs, and barbarians go evil simply because they choose Rallos Zek which doesn't even make sense seeing as the evil team will be nothing but dark elf wizards and ogre shadowknights, so where would the evil halfling go level? He obviously can't level in misty, and most certainly cannot train in Neriak...

On the otherhand if it's "race wars" the evil team has a huge advantage by claiming two of the strongest warrior races, two of the strongest caster races, and their numbers will out-perform the good team by 3:1 ratios simply because no one wants to be a human shadowknight or wood elf warrior.

My solution would be to start everyone off in a "hub" like the tutorial and place a custom NPC at the spawn point which allows you to choose between "good" and "evil" so if I choose to be an ogre warrior simply for the bonuses and I want to be "good" I state that to the NPC and he tags me accordingly and gives me the surname "the Good"

At this point all you'd really need to do is refaction the cities guards/mercs/trainers to go along with those choices for example

Evil:
Paineel
Neriak
Oggok
Grobb
Freeport
Cabilis
Ak'Anon

Good:
Rivervale
Qeynos
Erudin
Halas
Felwithe
Kelethin
Kaladim

Depending on my choice in the hub I become either KoS to one sect of cities, and ally to the other. I then tell the flagging NPC where I wish to go based on my alignment and he transports me to a bind spot within my city of choice, I'm then bound and free to group and level with people that have similar alignment choices.

[Sephrana]

Abacab wins

[Devil]

The only issue is every warrior and bard can choose Rallos Zek as a diety, meaning you could cockblock the good team by having halflings, dwarves, wood elfs, half-elfs, and barbarians go evil simply because they choose Rallos Zek which doesn't even make sense seeing as the evil team will be nothing but dark elf wizards and ogre shadowknights, so where would the evil halfling go level? He obviously can't level in misty, and most certainly cannot train in Neriak...

On the otherhand if it's "race wars" the evil team has a huge advantage by claiming two of the strongest warrior races, two of the strongest caster races, and their numbers will out-perform the good team by 3:1 ratios simply because no one wants to be a human shadowknight or wood elf warrior.

My solution would be to start everyone off in a "hub" like the tutorial and place a custom NPC at the spawn point which allows you to choose between "good" and "evil" so if I choose to be an ogre warrior simply for the bonuses and I want to be "good" I state that to the NPC and he tags me accordingly and gives me the surname "the Good"

At this point all you'd really need to do is refaction the cities guards/mercs/trainers to go along with those choices for example

Evil:
Paineel
Neriak
Oggok
Grobb
Freeport
Cabilis
Ak'Anon

Good:
Rivervale
Qeynos
Erudin
Halas
Felwithe
Kelethin
Kaladim

Depending on my choice in the hub I become either KoS to one sect of cities, and ally to the other. I then tell the flagging NPC where I wish to go based on my alignment and he transports me to a bind spot within my city of choice, I'm then bound and free to group and level with people that have similar alignment choices.

^^ This.

How much work would this be JW?

[Salty]

racists

hardcoded teams would be lame, should be guild vs. guild.


i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Misto]

racists

hardcoded teams would be lame, should be guild vs. guild.


i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious

This made me laugh so hard.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

^^ This.

How much work would this be JW?

Not a lot.

All you got to do is globalize a few factions, spawn a custom NPC with the flagging script, and have them #zone your character into one of the starter cities.

Probably would take like an hour to set it up.

[Nocte]

Another angry blue server player. I said "like 100 people", it's a synonym for "around". If you want to cry over a PvP server, don't beat around the bush and just get straight to the whining.

You got all this from me picking on your failure to add properly? You're amazing, sir. You are a patriot and a saint. Unfortunately, you're no mathematician.

[wehrmacht]

racists
hardcoded teams would be lame, should be guild vs. guild.

i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious

We've already seen exactly how that works out multiple times in the past. Server population isn't viable for more than like 1-2 months due to reasons mentioned in original post. I assume the people making the server would rather have a more long term success than 1 month of anarchy followed by server closure or reset. There's no point even making a server if you're just going to recreate the failure of TZVZ.

Everything outlined in the original post is there to maximize server population, minimize amount of GM support required to resolve disputes, and prevent someone from taking over the server just by zerging it with a guild of 40 people on day 1. Except for possibly banning dupers or 3rd party app cheaters, no GM support would even be required.


The only issue is every warrior and bard can choose Rallos Zek as a diety, meaning you could cockblock the good team by having halflings, dwarves, wood elfs, half-elfs, and barbarians go evil simply because they choose Rallos Zek

First of all, halfling warriors and a few other combinations could also choose Rallos Zek on the Sullon Zek server and go evil. There is no "blocking" the good team by doing that so I have no idea what you're talking about. They just become and ordinary member of the evil team. There is nothing special about them.

Second of all, you rarely even saw people play these combinations. I don't think I saw a single Rallos Zek halfling once that was over level 10. I definitely didn't see any 50+ ones but it wouldn't even matter if they existed. The only affect it has on the game is that virtually every player character in their starting town can attack them.


which doesn't even make sense seeing as the evil team will be nothing but dark elf wizards and ogre shadowknights

This mostly comes down to individual player skill. I can log on a ranger or paladin and send shadowknights to bind point all day. SK isn't some god mode PvP class that you choose at character creation and automatically win every fight. If you're crammed into the entrance of sebillis or something like that, people are much more worried about getting the hell away from the 2h warrior with 20% hp, epic rogue, or monk with tstaff. If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.


so where would the evil halfling go level? He obviously can't level in misty, and most certainly cannot train in Neriak...


He has to run to freeport or innothule swamp or something like that. It's a PvP server. It's not supposed to be easy. There will be other evils in freeport along with goods too. Guard faction doesn't change on PvP server so you can train wherever you normally do.


On the otherhand if it's "race wars" the evil team has a huge advantage by claiming two of the strongest warrior races, two of the strongest caster races, and their numbers will out-perform the good team by 3:1 ratios simply because no one wants to be a human shadowknight or wood elf warrior.

Warrior race doesn't matter much by level 55+ since kick stuns then. The advantage of being a smaller target balances out with the large race stat bonus.


My solution would be to start everyone off in a "hub" like the tutorial and place a custom NPC at the spawn point which allows you to choose between "good" and "evil" so if I choose to be an ogre warrior simply for the bonuses and I want to be "good" I state that to the NPC and he tags me accordingly and gives me the surname "the Good"

The whole point of a dark vs light type server is because it's just way more believable having trolls and ogres fighting halflings than it is to have races assigned to teams at random. You can easily tell who is and isn't on your team that way also.

If you did a non-good vs evil setup and just randomly put races on separate teams, what do you call it? The dwarf vs erudite server? The good vs evil one just has more appeal to it but either one is better in the long run than FFA.




At this point all you'd really need to do is refaction the cities guards/mercs/trainers to go along with those choices for example

Evil:
Paineel
Neriak
Oggok
Grobb
Freeport
Cabilis
Ak'Anon

Good:
Rivervale
Qeynos
Erudin
Halas
Felwithe
Kelethin
Kaladim

Depending on my choice in the hub I become either KoS to one sect of cities, and ally to the other. I then tell the flagging NPC where I wish to go based on my alignment and he transports me to a bind spot within my city of choice, I'm then bound and free to group and level with people that have similar alignment choices.

Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic. That's just too much work to do, it would take too long, break every quest in the game and all the epic quests too. People probably want to start playing on this server before the year 2013 and server devs probably want to keep the code mostly the same as P1999 with the exception of flags for who can attack who.

If you ever want this server to come out, try not to suggest anything other than changing flags of what PC characters can attack one another based on race, diety, or whatever other variable without screwing with any NPC's. I'll add any viable alternatives to the original post that don't result in the server coming out 1 decade from now.

[Jigga]

Dark vs Light = A guild from both sides being on top.

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

[wehrmacht]

Darks prevailing will just cause the lesser guilds on the light team to eithe reroll as dark or to form a zerg of Lights

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite. Personally, I think it would be about even. It just depends what guilds choose what side.

All of these so called "disadvantages" to a team server are nothing in comparison to a FFA server collapsing after 1-2 months.

[Zakaton]

There is nothing on the original post that would indicate a lopsided advantage to the dark team. Some would argue that it would be the exact opposite.

If Sullen Zek was any indication, things would be seriously lopsided in favor of the dark team.

[Macken]

If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.



Only whines on forums so far is melees lobbing to throw out levitate and root for the lulz.

[wehrmacht]

If Sullen Zek was any indication, things would be seriously lopsided in favor of the dark team.

Listen man, I was there during the whole thing from day 1 so I know why things turned out the way they did:

The neutral team had Darkenbane and Tides of Wrath at server opening (although I don't remember exactly when ToW formed). The evil team had Ruin and Hate then a bunch of other minor guilds with no real sway on server power like Da Bashin Iggles.

Darkenbane (neutral) was probably the best PvP guild on the server at the start. Meaning they didn't have anyone in their guild that was just outright terrible. Both Ruin (evil) and Hate (evil) had people who were both good and bad. Hate was actually pretty terrible at this point in time when Milt was leader.

So what caused the drastic evil dominance? Darkenbane was the biggest griefer guild on server and they were on neutral team *not* evil. They trained their own team to steal xp spots from them and all kinds of stupid shit.

The high end evils didn't really have any of these problems like the divide between Darkenbane and Tides of Wrath. The two guilds could have easily joined together and overwhelmed Ruin while we were raiding or leveling but they didn't. The best attempt I even saw to stop Ruin from progressing was when we were standing in Western Wastes and a Darkenbane halfling started running at us with a train of 20 dragons. I saw him coming and we were all ready to nuke him to death but his computer lagged out and he just plopped into the ground 100 yards away from us. The skyshrine attack did end up stopping us for a day or two, but you're gonna need more than one of those to catch up.

The only team that was a failure due to population issues and not something else is the good team. They only had Black Prophecy. If you were to combine the good and neutral team populations together (which is basically what the original post is), they will easily be able to fight against the evils. The odds of them having an advantage are actually greater than disadvantage imo. All depends who goes to what sides.

Only whines on forums so far is melees lobbing to throw out levitate and root for the lulz.

Root and levitate should work to avoid Z axis melee damage. The only reason it didn't on TZVZ was because it was coded wrong by accident or just not giving a shit about it.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

We've already seen exactly how that works out multiple times in the past. Server population isn't viable for more than like 1-2 months due to reasons mentioned in original post. I assume the people making the server would rather have a more long term success than 1 month of anarchy followed by server closure or reset. There's no point even making a server if you're just going to recreate the failure of TZVZ.

Everything outlined in the original post is there to maximize server population, minimize amount of GM support required to resolve disputes, and prevent someone from taking over the server just by zerging it with a guild of 40 people on day 1. Except for possibly banning dupers or 3rd party app cheaters, no GM support would even be required.




First of all, halfling warriors and a few other combinations could also choose Rallos Zek on the Sullon Zek server and go evil. There is no "blocking" the good team by doing that so I have no idea what you're talking about. They just become and ordinary member of the evil team. There is nothing special about them.

Second of all, you rarely even saw people play these combinations. I don't think I saw a single Rallos Zek halfling once that was over level 10. I definitely didn't see any 50+ ones but it wouldn't even matter if they existed. The only affect it has on the game is that virtually every player character in their starting town can attack them.



This mostly comes down to individual player skill. I can log on a ranger or paladin and send shadowknights to bind point all day. SK isn't some god mode PvP class that you choose at character creation and automatically win every fight. If you're crammed into the entrance of sebillis or something like that, people are much more worried about getting the hell away from the 2h warrior with 20% hp, epic rogue, or monk with tstaff. If you're a caster, don't be a moron and zone in until all the melees do first, then we won't have to listen to all the caster whines on the forums.



He has to run to freeport or innothule swamp or something like that. It's a PvP server. It's not supposed to be easy. There will be other evils in freeport along with goods too. Guard faction doesn't change on PvP server so you can train wherever you normally do.



Warrior race doesn't matter much by level 55+ since kick stuns then. The advantage of being a smaller target balances out with the large race stat bonus.



The whole point of a dark vs light type server is because it's just way more believable having trolls and ogres fighting halflings than it is to have races assigned to teams at random. You can easily tell who is and isn't on your team that way also.

If you did a non-good vs evil setup and just randomly put races on separate teams, what do you call it? The dwarf vs erudite server? The good vs evil one just has more appeal to it but either one is better in the long run than FFA.





Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic. That's just too much work to do, it would take too long, break every quest in the game and all the epic quests too. People probably want to start playing on this server before the year 2013 and server devs probably want to keep the code mostly the same as P1999 with the exception of flags for who can attack who.

If you ever want this server to come out, try not to suggest anything other than changing flags of what PC characters can attack one another based on race, diety, or whatever other variable without screwing with any NPC's. I'll add any viable alternatives to the original post that don't result in the server coming out 1 decade from now.

Let me come at your counter-arguments:

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana, Dark elf mages probably wont roll Solusek Ro either, but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum, and in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.

That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you also stated "Refactioning every NPC in every single town in EQ is extremely unrealistic." No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Also epic NPC's have nothing to do with guard and trainer faction so I don't see how quests be broken? Even if factions are changed you're still able to turn in crushbone belts or gnollfangs just as easily as before barring that you are not KoS of course.

Again, something as minor as .pl editing, perl scripting or even globalizing factions would probably take someone like Secrets or Akkadius like 10 minutes to do, so I really do not know why you're pulling this 2013 thing out of your ass.

[wehrmacht]

The issue with deity specific PvP is no one will roll halfling warriors following Karana


Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.


in a situation where people will pool 90% of the warrior population into ogres and 90% of the cleric population into dwarf it's hardly balanced and


This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.


but it still belies the fact it "blurs" the team spectrum


Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.




will only preclude to x-teaming, and immortal healing.


It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.


That pretty much covers all the counter-arguments you gave me about deity specific PvP, not to mention it's a coding nightmare.

Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.



No it is not, you can globalize factions and this was done several times on servers like Qeynos V. Freeport and several other customization projects, and I'm fairly certain refactioning entire NPC databases only took Secrets and Vile like an hours work?

Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.

[vinx]

there will always be a way to immy heal w/o FFA
but i do prefer teams and agree FFA sinks fast

gimme my yellow elven names we had on VZ back and id play!

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Neutral team's best tank was a halfling, karana warrior named Toodles. Your statement doesn't really make sense. You're obsessed with thinking Ogre SK's and Ogre warriors dominate all PvP when they don't.



This is another nonsensical statement. Playing an ogre on a PvP server isn't some giant advantage, you're a giant target to get blown up. When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

Trolls on the other hand have regen which is an advantage but they also have 5 FIRE RESIST and are also big targets. Playing a character with 5 fire resist isn't that fun.



Like I said, I never even saw a Rallos Zek halfling over level 10. Even if there are people playing them, they're like a novelty character that people immediately know their names and what team they're on.





It was completely impossible to immortal heal on sullon zek. You can't heal the other team or buff them and there's no level limit for PvP. Can people stop smoking salvia before they post?

The only real xteaming you can do is using a character to train your own team which should probably be the only bannable rule for this server. I'm not talking about at a camp in Guk or something because GM's don't have time for that. I'm talking about someone logging on a level 60 neutral monk and using it to train a neutral raid over and over.



Now you're just making stuff up. The thing you suggested involves way more work. For the one I listed on the original page, nothing on the server has to be altered at all except who can attack and heal each other.

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.




Those servers probably didn't even have quests and like I already said, the server devs probably want to keep it as close to p1999 server code as possible.


You're misconstruing everything, I'm not stating that I roll some ogre with 150 stamina and proceed to roflstomp everything from Innothule to East Karana in terms of being overpowered. I'm stating that because they start with 150 str/sta they're going to be the primo choice for tanking in PvE environments thus it will carry over to being the choice for PvP.

It's much easier to play an ogre warrior than say a gnome warrior simply because you get 50% more baseline HP and that is the allure and that is why the majority of the tanking population will be ogre, even on P99 now ogre's and trolls make up the majority of endgame tanks, and I've known only one barbarian during my time here actually tanking in fear.

This is where globalizing faction comes into play, if every player has an absolute choice of what side to be on and where to start, I can roll that ogre SK and start in Qeynos to level up quick off gnollfangs, I can roll that dwarf cleric and start in paineel if I so choose, which is a much better alternative to players than being confined to "good" team because you choose a wood-elf druid, or be confined to "evil" because you want a tanking class that has more than 75 Str/Sta

There also has to be a level limit in PvP, within +/- 10-15 levels, no one wants to deal with the mage who exploited his way to level 50 while the rest of the server is level 12 killing crocs as he continues to bolt his way through newbie zones time and time again.

My point I'm stressing is the server should be fun, and PvP should happen at all times, but it's stupid to confine people into X and Y teams especially on an emulator, and it's even more retarded to make it a FFA grief-fest by allowing level 60 casters to run through Oasis destroying derv camp after derv camp especially considering PvP should cause xp loss.

[wehrmacht]

there will always be a way to immy heal w/o FFA
but i do prefer teams and agree FFA sinks fast


I'm pretty sure the 10,000 Sullon Zek players over 10 years would have figured out how to do it if you were correct.


I'm stating that because they start with 150 str/sta they're going to be the primo choice for tanking in PvE environments thus it will carry over to being the choice for PvP.

It's much easier to play an ogre warrior than say a gnome warrior simply because you get 50% more baseline HP and that is the allure and that is why the majority of the tanking population will be ogre, even on P99 now ogre's and trolls make up the majority of endgame tanks, and I've known only one barbarian during my time here actually tanking in fear.


The non-evil team also has more healing classes than evils in the original post and the PvE content isn't even hard in the first place so it's not even a valid complaint.

It's like the difference in driving a ferrari and toyota to burger king, you're still gonna get there.

I even tanked Innoruk as a ranger on TZVZ box 2.0 at the very beginning of the server. Think it was server first, Heresy might have killed him once before. The PvE complaints are just useless in general.


There also has to be a level limit in PvP, within +/- 10-15 levels, no one wants to deal with the mage who exploited his way to level 50 while the rest of the server is level 12 killing crocs as he continues to bolt his way through newbie zones time and time again.

Hell no.

First of all, if someone manages to exploit their way to 50 while everyone is level 10, I'm sure the GM will probably ban them. Secondly, nobody wants to PvP on a server with immortal healers. That's even worse than having more than one IP allowed so everyone drags a healing mule behind them into PvP.

Here's another reason why having a level limit for PvP is absolutely fucking retarded:

http://www.notaddicted.com/images/fansy5.jpg

http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

I'm pretty sure the 10,000 Sullon Zek players over 10 years would have figured out how to do it if you were correct.




The non-evil team also has more healing classes than evils in the original post and the PvE content isn't even hard in the first place so it's not even a valid complaint.

It's like the difference in driving a ferrari and toyota to burger king, you're still gonna get there.

I even tanked Innoruk as a ranger on TZVZ box 2.0 at the very beginning of the server. Think it was server first, Heresy might have killed him once before. The PvE complaints are just useless in general.

PvE plays a huge roll in PvP if you don't consider this fact then you don't know PvP...

Anything and everything from starter points, to gear selection, to prime camps, to raids, to platinum, to clickies, min-maxing is the basis for PvE and min-maxing is what gets you to the top echelon of PvP, skill is important too but it's a MMORPG c'mon bro even the old WoW moniker holds true for this game "90% gear 10% skill" even the most untalented fucker can accrue kills if he's rolling with VP gear (See: best of the best tourny)

If EQ PvP was one zone with 10 maps where we just captured the flag then I'd agree PvE complaints are useless, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty EQ is all about killing dragons on 7-day cycles and PvP is just another way to deal with it.

So you made a statement:


It's like the difference in driving a ferrari and toyota to burger king, you're still gonna get there.


Right. Except chicks are totally not down for blowing the dude in the '83 Toyota, and in a game all about pixels you better be driving the Ferrari

[wehrmacht]

PvE plays a huge roll in PvP if you don't consider this fact then you don't know PvP...


All the stuff you typed is completely irrelevant because on the original page team setup, good team has more healing than evil team.

Evils would definitely not have a PvE advantage and anyone that actually reads the original post will probably agree.

[Macken]

Listen man, I was there during the whole thing from day 1 so I know why things turned out the way they did:


What is with you and your revisionist history?

You act like you played in classic and kunark before Velious on SZ. "how things turned out"? SZ was released with all 3 expansions from the start.

The era you are talking about was done 45-60 days after server start. After 60 days Ruin averaged 2-4 players on at prime time.

"during the whole thing from day 1"? No wonder you don't like root, you got root griefed off the server before anything happened.

SZ is Hate, ToW and BP. The times you are talking about were the birthing pangs, just a flash in the pan. Important history, but by no means defining or worthy of anything but a footnote. About 90% of SZ never even heard of Darkenbane or Ruin.

I saw 2 or 3 at the same time once.

[Macken]

When we were fighting Heresy on TZVZ and someone said "KILL REXX", nobody ever replied with "Where is Rexx?".

No wonder you quit. You can't kill Rexx.

Rexx why didn't you use your guise? or is did he make that up too?

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

All the stuff you typed is completely irrelevant because on the original page team setup, good team has more healing than evil team.

Evils would definitely not have a PvE advantage and anyone that actually reads the original post will probably agree.

Except for the fact that evil team was the zergiest team on Sullon zek.
Except for the fact that ogre warriors round out the majority of tanks on p99

It doesn't matter what YOU think has a better PvP/PvE advantage, I don't even care if YOU roundhoused 6 druids with one gnome warrior who put all his points into charisma wielding nothing but a rusty halberd... The point is historically and demographically evil team has always outnumbers goods, ogre warriors have always outnumbered every other tank class from classic to about velious before AA's and max stats balanced every race out and racial bonuses didn't mean anything anymore.

Good players, bad players aside... It's stupid to not look at history and proceed to think teams will be 50/50 good/evil when the numbers will always skew towards evils to the point that the evil team will have zerg guilds of 110 people going against good teams composed of nothing but 20 or so members... and regardless if your 20 can shit on those 110, they'll still drop content quicker simply by mage petting and throwing ungodly amounts of numbers at targets to drop them in under 15 seconds.

[wehrmacht]

What is with you and your revisionist history?

You act like you played in classic and kunark before Velious on SZ. "how things turned out"? SZ was released with all 3 expansions from the start.


Where did I say SZ on day 1 there was no kunark or velious?



No wonder you don't like root, you got root griefed off the server before anything happened.

Root griefed off the server, that's a good one. You're the one that has a problem and wants magic resist to function differently than on EQ live, not me.

If you make it an idiot fest like TZVZ and have root land on someone with 1000 magic resist, then it completely dumbs down the game. On EQ live PvP, one good player could kill an infinite number of terrible players. You want to make it so a bunch of noobs can run at someone all spamming root and automatically win as the other guy just stands there in one place while people auto-attack him to death.

I don't care if damage spells land more, but there's a reason crowd control spells don't work on EQ Live PvP, because it's overpowered and removes all the skill from the game.


SZ is Hate, ToW and BP. The times you are talking about were the birthing pangs, just a flash in the pan. Important history, but by no means defining or worthy of anything but a footnote. About 90% of SZ never even heard of Darkenbane or Ruin.

Most people know both of those. Darkenbane was in UO too. It depends if you're old enough to have played UO or not. I was in ToW too btw.


Rann Flamespinner called and said to tell you that you are clueless.

Oh no, an NPC is attacking me. It's totally impossible for me to run to zone line or not be stupid enough to attack someone near a faction NPC.


Good players, bad players aside... It's stupid to not look at history and proceed to think teams will be 50/50 good/evil when the numbers will always skew towards evils to the point that the evil team will have zerg guilds of 110 people

You're the only person to try and make the claim that would happen in this thread so far based on the team setup in original post.

You can't kill Rexx.

Rexx, Xantille, Knuckle, we refer to them as free plat on wheels.

[Macken]

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.


Rann Flamespinner called and said to tell you that you are clueless.

[Jigga]

All the stuff you typed is completely irrelevant because on the original page team setup, good team has more healing than evil team.

Evils would definitely not have a PvE advantage and anyone that actually reads the original post will probably agree.

I dont agree.

Druids suck as healers. they can heal for 350 in classic and 600 in kunark. Paladins suck at healing too.

Your good side has more healing classes doesnt mean they will actually have more healers played.

If you have 30 person guild on evil team and a 30 person guild on good team idealy those guilds are created as a balance force. Its not like Evil team is going to have 1 cleric and 1 sham and the good team is going to have 1 cleric, 1 druid, 1 sham.

Barb shams suck. People play them but most want to play ogre or troll sham at least when i see sham its hardly a barb.

Id imagine on an evil team you will see more clerics then you would on a good team. Previous box on vztz before release its dicussed on whos playing what and people step up and play cleric if the guid is going to be short on clerics or what ever class.

It comes down to guild organization that prevails. Wermacht was part of a massive zerg that greatly outnumbered heresy but heresy was way more organized and shit stomped Wermachts guild. Wermach wants to blame it on root and shit like that but he thinks that root landing was only a detriment to his guild and a benefit to heresy.

Id want to play evil team

[Macken]

I'm pretty sure the 10,000 Sullon Zek players over 10 years would have figured out how to do it if you were correct.


I think it took me 8 days to figure it out.

Make a cleric on the same team you are attacking. I had a cleric on both other teams.

This is like taking candy from a baby, shooting fish in a barrell (sorry salty). Not only do you try to misrepresent your credentials, you actually have no clue how to pvp.

Root OMG! so OP

[Macken]

You act like .


Where did I say SZ on day 1 there was no kunark or velious?


Where did i say you said i said that you said there was no kunark or velious.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

[Hasbinbad]

ITT: guys whine and argue about bullshit a lot.

tl;dr for this thread:
i dont want to be stuck with fgts I cant kill just because we both worship Quellious
Now stfu. God damn.

[Macken]

If you make it an idiot fest like TZVZ and have root land on someone with 1000 magic resist, then it completely dumbs down the game..

1 million magic resist, 1,000 magic resist. I was never able to get over 550...on any resist. You are truly amazing.

The reason you got root griefed off server was because you were too dumb to know what to do. If only Ruin hadn't fallen apart at the very beginning of SZ root wouldn't have griefed you. So OP that root.

[wehrmacht]

I dont agree.

Druids suck as healers. they can heal for 350 in classic and 600 in kunark. Paladins suck at healing too.

Your good side has more healing classes doesnt mean they will actually have more healers played.

Ok dude, there is a saying that if you're going to disagree with someone's solution to a problem and don't have a solution of your own, then whatever you're saying is useless. Personally, I can't think of any way possible to give the non-evil team any more advantage without it looking very lopsided to non-evils. So go ahead and post whatever your solution is. Try not to make it some insane plan like this Abacab guy that would take a year to code for and cause the server not to come out till 2013.



Wermacht was part of a massive zerg that greatly outnumbered heresy but heresy was way more organized and shit stomped Wermachts guild.


This quoted text above is hilarious. I was in Holocaust, a guild with like 5 people. You probably remember the name. There was absolutely no way in hell to stop Heresy from taking over the server with our tiny numbers so me and Maverix joined Fish Bait out of pity so Heresy didn't have free reign over the server. Lethdar/whorella came sometimes too.

Shortly after, Heresy was eating dirt in Plane of Hate, Vox, and a few other places even after mass recruiting on the server, guilds like ROFLCOPTER. Yea, they wiped us sometimes, but the split wasn't very different, probably 50/50 or 60/40. I didn't put the guild together in the first place. I just joined to help them stop Heresy from gaying up the server.

[Hasbinbad]

This thread is a bigger circlejerk than the original Red99 crew in their first 3 days..

[wehrmacht]

The reason you got root griefed off server

Lol? Root was fine on original EQ Live PvP servers. I'm not the one that wants it changed. It's up to you to try and make up some kind of sad excuse for why you think root should land on this server when it didn't on EQ live.

Why is every one of your posts like this?:

http://www.evga.com/forums/upfiles/180831/F06CE5A936FD4175867C718854BE8703.jpg

I think it took me 8 days to figure it out.
Make a cleric on the same team you are attacking. I had a cleric on both other teams.

This is a 1 player per IP server. You're going to make a cleric on the opposite team of your main and do what?

[Macken]

I don't care if damage spells land more, but there's a reason crowd control spells don't work on EQ Live PvP, because it's overpowered and removes all the skill from the game..

Crowd control always worked on live.... on people who had relatively low MR. The threshold that you and alot of others try to insinuate just isn't factual.
I was still getting rooted by evens commonly with up to 200 mr.(SZ went through spell changes, we are talking till its end, not just the first 45 days that you only remember). Of course i got rooted with 550 mr too, but not often and not long. Please stop exaggerating to make up for your fail. No one with much knowledge loses to root. I'm not trying to ride you or upset you, I'm just not going to let you make up stuff continuously without injecting reality.

Having to deal with strengths and weaknesses, the offense and defense of a fight as it ebbs and flows from your advantage to his takes skill if eq has any. Mindlessly chasing down int casters who do nothing but run until they are out of HPS removes any skill from the game for the melee, which just coincidently fits your playstyle? I guess you don't realize that it's obvious what you want.

Now the int caster has skill.... at running.

Root is only an obstacle to the noob. Stop trying to dumb down eq and make it so melees need no skill or knowledge.

[Jigga]

It really doesnt matter what i suggest. Team, no team. I know VZTZ peeps are just going to get their shit together and preplan before the server is released.

Look at heresy and TDT, which had alot of Heresy and was the number 1 guild on vztz in 3.0.

Xant troll, Gnar Troll, Rexx Ogre, Zzoj Troll, Blud troll, Tonomar Ogre, Letsjoe de, boom de, tweene de, kaen de, melveny de, azuur de. Littlegyno troll, Saru ogre, House de

The only two players I can think of in Heresy that would have to pick a different class to stay evil would be Lasher and Skunky, pretty much the only two main druids on vztz. P99 druid differs so much from vztz so druids are almost a joke on p99 as they stand for pvp use.

Your bluebie team pvp it will just implement code that will lead to annoying frustration. Heresy/TDT will go evil. Another guild thats organized will go good or evil. If good they will be out numbered. If they go evil then it leaves the good side open for a shittier guild to be the #1 good guild and then you will have 2 Evil guilds shit stomping the good guild and then the two evil guids will just poopsock the raid mob between the toom of them

[Macken]

Most people know both of those. Darkenbane was in UO too. It depends if you're old enough to have played UO or not. I was in ToW too btw.

Relatively NO ONE knows Darkenbane or Ruin from SZ. I always forget about them until someone in one of them tries to say they played on SZ during Kunark all the way till the end--who saw it ALL go down. Attempting to use that BS to claim credibility while lobbying to throw out root because he was not good enough to figure out how to escape, thus ruining the balance and skill dynamic between melee and int caster.
You don't resist root till you get top end magic gear for each expansion. If you resist root in Classic, upon kunark and new roots, you get rooted next day son. Not until you build your MR up further will you start resisting it again, then when velious comes out...

ROOT > wehrmacht

[wehrmacht]

Crowd control always worked on live.... on people who had relatively low MR. The threshold that you and alot of others try to insinuate just isn't factual.
I was still getting rooted by evens commonly with up to 200 mr.(SZ went through spell changes, we are talking till its end, not just the first 45 days that you only remember).

For the 500th time. This P1999 PvP server is not based in Planes of Power. The max it can open with is Kunark and will probably only have Velious as max expansion and maybe custom content afterwards?

Since it seems like the only time you ever played Sullon Zek was during Planes of Power, all of this stuff you're talking about has no relevance to this server.


Of course i got rooted with 550 mr too


You sure as hell don't get rooted with 500MR in classic era PvP. You're practically 100% invulnerable to it somewhere around 100-120MR. Stop trying to apply Planes of Power bullshit to a non-planes of power server. Resists were never changed until post-velious.

It really doesnt matter what i suggest. Team, no team. I know VZTZ peeps are just going to get their shit together and preplan before the server is released.

Xant troll, Gnar Troll, Rexx Ogre, Zzoj Troll, Blud troll, Tonomar Ogre, Letsjoe de, boom de, tweene de, kaen de, melveny de, azuur de. Littlegyno troll, Saru ogre, House de

This isn't a server for just TZVZ people. It isn't a server for Heresy. There's no reason to design the server around them. If Heresy wants to make a stupid choice and choose the same team as whatever other large guild is on the server and have nobody to fight, then maybe they're dumbasses? I dunno?

If that indeed does happen, one group will eventually stop being jackasses and go to the other team.

[Macken]

Lol? Root was fine on original EQ Live PvP servers. I'm not the one that wants it changed. It's up to you to try and make up some kind of sad excuse for why you think root should land on this server when it didn't on EQ live.


I don't want it changed... you do.. It's up to you to prove it didn't land on live, that you were resisting root from day one and that it takes skill to chase down an int caster who can't do anything but run until he dies. Better yet, explain how that is fun or balanced. I chase...you run... fun?

Why is every one of your posts like this?:.

Because i've seen what happens when i assume the coders have more common sense than to be trolled by a melee who wants even more of an advantage over casters than they already historicly had.

I'm pretty sure the 10,000 Sullon Zek players over 10 years would have figured out how to do it if you were correct.



This is a 1 player per IP server. You're going to make a cleric on the opposite team of your main and do what?

Reading comprehension is your friend.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Try not to make it some insane plan like this Abacab guy that would take a year to code for and cause the server not to come out till 2013.

Let me run you through my plan since you seem to think changing variables with perl scripting is super hard rocket science

Step one:
GM's spawn an NPC in tutorial and #addnpc to save it to the database

Step two:
Open GeorgeS quest editor, add in shit like:

sub EVENT_SAY
{
if($text=~/hail/i)
{quest::faction(25,5);
}
}

To set your faction to "good" or "evil"

then add:

sub EVENT_SAY
{
if($text=~/hail/i)
{quest::zone(freportw);
}
}

To whatever zone you want to go to based on your faction, add in some dialog so people know what to say in those [brackets] and you have a fully functional NPC that will flag you on your faction and send you to a zone where you can be bound the moment you zone in through a player.pl

Step three:
Set everyone's start zone to (tutorial @ 0, 0 ,0) through mySQL or some bullshit like, would take like 20 seconds with copy and paste

Step four:
Go through the faction list for NPC's in each city, make a new faction, globalize it by repeating it for every NPC in the zone, again takes like 20 seconds cause you can do that whole thing in a command string if you knew what you were doing.

Step five:
People log in, state their faction get flagged "good" or "evil" then he prompts you to state a city you wish to start in based on your previous response, you're then ported there and bound, GG team PvP with liberty of choosing your own destiny



I didn't know it would take 2 years to do a five step process that is pretty much automated with minimal input through perl and the .pl files, like I said I'm fairly certain even amateur programmers could do this in 10 minutes.


You can go get fucked bro

[Macken]

For the 500th time. This P1999 PvP server is not based in Planes of Power. The max it can open with is Kunark and will probably only have Velious as max expansion and maybe custom content afterwards?

Since it seems like the only time you ever played Sullon Zek was during Planes of Power, all of this stuff you're talking about has no relevance to this server.

You need to go back to 5th grade bro. This is the 3rd time ive had to tell you that reading comprehension is your friend. You drinking tonight? You are the only one talking about PoP and implying you played SZ while only classic and kunark was out and you were there from the very beginning and saw it all go down, listen to macht because if anyone knows he does.


You sure as hell don't get rooted with 500MR in classic era PvP. You're practically 100% invulnerable to it somewhere around 100-120MR. Stop trying to apply Planes of Power bullshit to a non-planes of power server. Resists were never changed until post-velious..

Who said you did? did you get rooted with your 1 million and 1,000 mr? Again with the PoP?

If root is griefing you, just ask someone what to do. Im sure anyone could tell you bro.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Who said you did? did you get rooted with your 1 million and 1,000 mr? Again with the PoP?

Man aiming for 1 million MR's bet he has shit DR as a result, guarantee when some shaman tags him with sicken, he's going to /petition to try and get disease spells removed since a 4 min dot is griefing!

He's already /petitioning lesser mummies for the same thing, rabies is grief!

[Macken]

If Heresy wants to make a stupid choice and choose the same team as whatever other large guild is on the server and have nobody to fight, then maybe they're dumbasses? I dunno?.

You can tell that you have no actual experience. That you are only running test cases about pvp in your mind.

From all accounts these Heresy guys were bad ass. Would it be a large supposition in your mind test case to imagine they all made their choice and characters the first 5 minutes or maybe first day? This would of course preclude them from KNOWING what the others were doing, which would also preclude them from being stupid or dumbasses, but maybe it would get them kicked out of the psychic network.

[Jigga]

All people need then to be practically immune to mr is 2 buffs and possibly 1 item depending what class you are

Starting mr 25mr
GMR 55mr
Arch SHielding 20mr
-------------------
100mr

Can toss a tcrown on to make sure you are immune if you go my wermachts memory

[wehrmacht]

All people need then to be practically immune to mr is 2 buffs and possibly 1 item depending what class you are

Starting mr 25mr
GMR 55mr
Arch SHielding 20mr
-------------------
100mr

Can toss a tcrown on to make sure you are immune if you go my wermachts memory

Now lets take a real world example instead of some delusional one.

Let's assume the player is not standing at a raid next to an enchanter which will probably be the majority of people. Let's also assume the player is not a caster since those classes are the one's actually affected by root the most.



Your new chart:
----------------
25mr


That was funny mentioning a Tranix Crown too since months after server opens only like 1% of people will have them if the server is anything like EQ Live.

Spell resists were not balanced assuming that people were fighting raid buffed vs raid buffed in classic EQ either. They were balanced for only what items a melee could slap into their inventory slots.

[Bombfist]

Let's assume the player is not standing at a raid next to an enchanter which will probably be the majority of people.

Really?

This is getting slightly ridiculous, why are people suddenly assuming it will be so hard to get full buffs on a single box server, it's borderline retarded, i can guarantee that somehow if this box ever appears, i will have GMR every time i log on, i don't honestly understand with all the crap slinging on this forum about pvp about how godlike everyone is at pvp, that 80% of the community playing this imaginary box wouldn't have full buffs all the time.

Buffs account for 80% of your overall resists in end game classic etc, that's an estimate, i can get you exact numbers if you want.

That was funny mentioning a Tranix Crown too since months after server opens only like 1% of people will have them if the server is anything like EQ Live.

What are you talking about, this isn't EQ live, it can't be anything like EQ live, you know what happens on an EMU pvp server these days, people log on, they know what item they need in every single slot already, they know the spawn timer for the mob they need to get said loot from and they know roughly the amount of time they need to put into it, you can't make comparisons to a game with a community which was completely unaware at the time. If you logged on, pvp server live release and said to yourself, "Holy shit i need a tranix crown" then you sir win pvp forever.

To talk about root in pvp for a moment, if i discuss the tests i did on VZ/TZ which is actually something productive towards a new server, you can see the numbers below :

25 MR 8% resists / 100 casts
35 MR 17% Resists / 100 casts
45 MR 16% Resists / 100 Casts
55 MR 23% Resists / 100 Casts
75 MR 33% Resists / 100 Casts
100 MR 38% Resists / 100 Casts
125 MR 52% Resists / 100 Casts
145 MR 68% Resists / 100 casts
170 MR 72% Resists / 100 Casts


100MR is equal to about 40% resists, the maximum obtainable as a guestimate in classic would be about 160-170 MR with all items, ( Yes that includes shawl, everything )

The whole community isn't getting a shawl, so you don't need to point that out, so, lets ball park a figure of somebody getting most items that aren't massively difficult to obtain, with full buffs sitting at around 120-135MR

125 MR 52% Resists / 100 Casts
145 MR 68% Resists / 100 casts

So lets say 55% - 60% resists on root check with somebody in full resist gear in classic, if they lack a buff, then they're sitting at 70-80MR ( which i think is a straw man argument, if you're pvping without an MR buff then you're not worth a salt.)

So, you're unbuffed, unprepared community is sitting at 28% resists to root, almost 30% chance to resist a root for doing pretty much nothing.

I think with maximum MR gear in classic ( considering the game will have to scale to kunark) 75% resist to root with 25% partial resists (under 5 second break) would be fair, or if you want, 95% resist rate, but if it lands, it lands for full duration.

If we want to discuss how broken mechanics are stop trying to quote live, because that was as broken as it gets, the server needs to be a balance of logical resists, not - " I AM IMMUNE TO ROOT I CAMPED 4 ITEMS FU "

[Macken]

Nice work Bomb.

[wehrmacht]

To talk about root in pvp for a moment, if i discuss the tests i did on VZ/TZ which is actually something productive towards a new server, you can see the numbers below :

25 MR 8% resists / 100 casts
35 MR 17% Resists / 100 casts
45 MR 16% Resists / 100 Casts
55 MR 23% Resists / 100 Casts
75 MR 33% Resists / 100 Casts
100 MR 38% Resists / 100 Casts
125 MR 52% Resists / 100 Casts
145 MR 68% Resists / 100 casts
170 MR 72% Resists / 100 Casts


This is the dumbest post yet. You post resist numbers from the TZVZ server which have nothing to do with EQ live. All those numbers represent is what one guy such as Null or Daxum implemented a long time ago.

So you're basically trying to claim one of those guys is better at balancing PvP than the original EQ devs and it's obviously not true.

What was the population of SZ, TZ, RZ, and VZ combined? like 40,000+? What was the TZVZ population? like 500? Boy it sure is hard to figure out which one was more popular.

If anything, this server needs to be the exact opposite of TZVZ in every way since that server dies after 1 month every reset.

With resist numbers that stupid, a pure melee class can't even walk around on the server for more than 2 minutes without being rooted and nuked to death. While at the same time, you can always just run in the other direction without stopping and never take 1 damage from him if you don't want to.

You have to pretty much be incompetent and want to die in order to be killed by a pure melee in open field yet you seem to think casters should just get to magically root and nuke everything to death that enters their screen. You really need to be so feeble minded it hurts to think a system like that is balanced.

The server is balanced if at character select screen, I would evenly consider both a pure melee and a hybrid. Under your scenario, you couldn't pay me to play a pure melee.

[AffEcT]

This is the dumbest post yet. You post resist numbers from the TZVZ server which have nothing to do with EQ live. All those numbers represent is what one guy such as Null or Daxum implemented a long time ago.

So you're basically trying to claim one of those guys is better at balancing PvP than the original EQ devs and it's obviously not true.

Dude... Really?
This is not EQLIVE.

I think Bomb is trying to get a discussion going about PvP resists.
And he posted an example of that from the biggest emu PvP server.

[wehrmacht]

Dude... Really?
This is not EQLIVE.


Ok, lets do the math here. You're posting on a p1999 server board. The goal of p1999 was to emulate everquest in that era. So when P1999 is creating a PvP server, what the hell do you think holds more relevance? EQ Live or TZVZ?

hint: it's not TZVZ, it has no relevance at all to this server.

TZVZ was a complete failure and the same clowns keep posting constantly trying to recreate the exact same server.

[AffEcT]

Ok, lets do the math here. You're posting on a p1999 server board. The goal of p1999 was to emulate everquest in that era. So when P1999 is creating a PvP server, what the hell do you think holds more relevance? EQ Live or TZVZ?

hint: it's not TZVZ, it has no relevance at all to this server.

TZVZ was a complete failure and the same clowns keep posting constantly trying to recreate the exact same server.

Do you have any specifics on how the resist system on live was during 1999?
Facts that is....
And so if i get this right. You want everything to be exactly like it was on release of Everquest? PvP Charm/Fear and so on?

[AffEcT]

I agree with you that we should not try to recreate VZTZ.
But we can at least look back on it and learn from it?

Everything wasn't horrible bad.
Not saying we should copy it or in anyway follow the guide lines
that they created but i think we should look at the cons and pros.
Information regarding classic and especially PvP is limited

[Bombfist]

I just have to assume you are a moron now.

So you're basically trying to claim one of those guys is better at balancing PvP than the original EQ devs and it's obviously not true.

Pvp on EQ live was a smooth running machine.

As counter productive as you are, enjoy the following post;

if i discuss the tests i did on VZ/TZ which is actually something productive towards a new server

You reply to that with "OMG MAN NOT LIVE LIKE, THIS IS STUPID, HERESY OMG, CANT BELIEVE EVERYTHING HAPPENING ALL AT ONCE, I'LL REPLY WITH NONSENSE AND HOPE EVERYONE DOESN'T READ IT"

What was the population of SZ, TZ, RZ, and VZ combined? like 40,000+? What was the TZVZ population? like 500? Boy it sure is hard to figure out which one was more popular.

Are you seriously this stupid?

I mean, do you need me to explain why that statement is retarded?

I can't believe 40,000 people didn't come to EQEMU to play the box. wow. Man it was hard to get GMR on live too with such a large playerbase across all servers.

So, let's get back to it mr strawman, while you ignore every aspect of my post, which has actual figures from what we're working from / towards, with utter nonsense from EQ live, which, wait i'll quote myself incase you're confused -

What are you talking about, this isn't EQ live, it can't be anything like EQ live,

Tunnel vision is a bitch, i tried to respond to your post with constructive information backed up by data from the current code set on the most recent pvp server, your reply basically consisted of how upset you are about things not being like live when your 13 year old self saved the internet from pvp.

We are over 10 years down the line, nobody wants a pvp server to emulate live, there were several OBVIOUS fixes that were made years into everquest that seem retarded to leave out, people progress mr caveman, get yourself back on live EQ, lock yourself at level 50, try to find 40 thousand of your nearest friends and get your pvp on, that's the only way what you suggest is a good server will ever happen.

You have to pretty much be incompetent and want to die in order to be killed by a pure melee in open field yet you seem to think casters should just get to magically root and nuke everything to death that enters their screen.

Cool story.

So, you're unbuffed, unprepared community is sitting at 28% resists to root, almost 30% chance to resist a root for doing pretty much nothing.

Yes, i think you should get rooted for putting no effort into your character, do you actually know how to read?

I said in my previous post that with HIGH MR ( END GAME ITEMS ) you should RESIST root at a high % rate, when rooted it should break early.

I play a melee, but i'm trying to find an equal balance in pvp, not some retarded 1 way vision post about how you got rooted alot on vz/tz so you quit.

With resist numbers that stupid, a pure melee class can't even walk around on the server for more than 2 minutes without being rooted and nuked to death. While at the same time, you can always just run in the other direction without stopping and never take 1 damage from him if you don't want to.

So, new server quota includes ;

100% MR For 30 minutes work at max level.
If root lands on a melee caster will be death touched.
If melee runs away, caster will be death touched.

If anything, this server needs to be the exact opposite of TZVZ in every way since that server dies after 1 month every reset.



Bad players leave because they think everybody is a 1999 keyboard turner and they can't believe auto attacking their pet doesn't work any more.

My work with resists on the other server and testing on p99 is towards giving information for the developers of a possible pvp server information on how things are now, they decide what to do with it, your posts consist of a completely biased opinion based on your own thoughts and beliefs of what YOU want for a new server. If anyone challenges those thoughts you avoid every aspect with a nonsensical reply about your own experiences.

I don't care that you got stomped by heresy, and i don't care that you got rooted and you felt it was cheating, try to be constructive instead of moronic.

[Bombfist]

Ok, lets do the math here. You're posting on a p1999 server board. The goal of p1999 was to emulate everquest in that era. So when P1999 is creating a PvP server, what the hell do you think holds more relevance? EQ Live or TZVZ?

hint: it's not TZVZ, it has no relevance at all to this server.

TZVZ was a complete failure and the same clowns keep posting constantly trying to recreate the exact same server.

My aim, is to create an informational post ( read other thread ) on what rogean and the other devs may have to work with.

Rogean specifically asked in the other thread that he wanted people to test with the current code available, i tested what i could on the p99 code, and i tested what i could on vz/tz as a cross-reference.

The resists on vz/tz are very similar to the small testing i could do on p99, so yes the tests are completely relevant.

I'm pretty sure that it's a very small number of the community who actually enjoy pvp, that want an exact emulation of 1999 everquest.

Here are some gems, changed by the people you love so much, because you quoted how popular live was.

March 29, 2000

- Area Effect "Fear" spells will no longer work in PvP. This affects a
bard song, as well as the Cleric "Wave of Fear" spell.

May 31, 2001 2:00 am

Resist-debuffs will do 1.5 times their normal value for PvP
encounters. In other words, if the spell did -60MR in PvP before, it
does -90MR in PvP now. PvE (combat versus NPCs) remains unaffected.

June 27, 2001 3:00 am

When a player becomes invisible (or hides successfully) every other
player that had them targeted will lose their target. This is true for
all servers, but has the greatest implications on PvP servers. The use
of spells that allow you to see through invisibility will prevent you
from losing your target if that target hides or goes invisible.

July 24, 2002

** PvP **

- Fixed a bug on Tallon and Vallon Zek that made player characters in
non-human illusions immune to ranged attacks.

PVP Changes:
- In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more
viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage
spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same
spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type
spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct
damage spell is cast upon them.

*PvP-Teams Change*

Customers on the PvP-Teams servers have been plagued by a tactic known
as "Bind Rushing". Casters would bind themselves in a hostile area or
dungeon, and attack everyone of an opposing race in the area. Sooner or
later the caster would die. They would then respawn, memorize a few
spells, then jump back in to attack their wounded opponents.

As a first step in combating this practice and improving life for those
on the PvP-Servers, casters will now respawn with zero mana after being
killed by another player in a duel or open combat.


February 21, 2001 3:00 am

- Due to the recent improvements to "Harmtouch", it is doing much
more damage than it would before and unbalances PvP. As such it will
now do less damage in PvP (68% of PvE, down from 80%). In addition,
Shadowknights on the PvP servers were routinely killing themselves via
non-XP losing means and attacking other players with Harmtouch
immediately upon respawn. In order to address this situation, Harmtouch
is no longer automatically "recharged" by death on the PvP Servers.


Yea, lets classic it up, seems.... balanced.

Rolling an enchanter, illusion makes me immune to ranged, lets get this coded and on the road bros.

[wehrmacht]

Angry bombfist quotes here

Bombfist, or Glen rather, aren't you a brit? Did you even play EQ Live PvP servers? If so what era and servers?

I'm tired of seeing people who never even played the EQ live PvP servers during this era try and act like they know what they're talking about.


I'm pretty sure that it's a very small number of the community who actually enjoy pvp, that want an exact emulation of 1999 everquest.

I don't remember any difference in resists from 1999 everquest and 2000-2001 pre-luclin everquest. It could have differed in the first month or something but for the overwhelming majority of time, 100-120magic resist and you are 100% immune to roots. So it doesn't matter what year you choose as long as it's pre-luclin time period. It's all the same for resists.

Like I told this guy macken who wants to play a caster and group up with a bunch of other people and chase down solos then root and nuke them to death, if you want root resists to differ from live, try and post some sad excuse for why you think it should. Don't post some lame TZVZ chart acting like it's normal to be like that. The burden is on you to try and prove why something should be different from EQ live.

[Bombfist]

Rofl, somebody had the 5 minutes it takes to pick your posts apart to show the elaborate maze of crap that you're actually spewing, and now you have 0 reply.

Yes i played on live on SZ, and no, i'm a little too old to brag about my 15 year old achievements on a broken pvp server.

It's weird isn't it, how the only reason you're here is because of me? Oh wait, that can't be possible, I tell frytard and you appear, wow bro, i'm in the loop and you didn't even know.

Post more strawmen arguments and finish with the classic "omg you're not on my leaderboard of live greats you know nothing"

Always a good argument, get owned, back into a corner, i feel like i'm beating up a 3 year old.

Next.

[Bombfist]

BTW Bro's people from the UK can't connect to america on the internet, i tried to play on sullon zek but i got DDOS'd by the Atlantic ocean.

[Foxx]

being from the UK really has nothing to do with anything, so lets try to stick to some facts wermacht

did you play anywhere before sullon zek? if you didnt, it would make sense that you are under this dillusion that all classic era pvp was the same. SZ came out after velious was released, so it never experienced classic pvp and kunark-era pvp... there is a huge differance, and it kept getting better and making more sense over time

also, you did play on vztz, and you were in fish bait. you got denied from joining the better guilds, then you left the server after getting trainwrecked by the top guilds even with your zerg of millions.

note- ive already posted VZTZ players eqlive experience videos, so saying everyone who played on vztz was a scrub on live is laughable.

do you really think people should have 3 bags full of egg-shaped pumice??? 5 charge insta cast 3-slot dispell?

do you really think players should be able to get charmed, feared, pets depopping with a single lvl 4 ench spell, necro 49 pet quadding for 100 and enchanters using illusion to become immune to range?

if so, great. but you might be the only one in that sandbox

[Bombfist]

Sup foxx, i played sonic the hedgehog and completed it i might add, so egg shaped pumice are IN.

I once used game genie to advance on Duck Hunt in 1998, so i think we should be able to destroy pets with level 4 enchanter spells.


My biggest argument was my perfect execution of Hadouken in street fighter 2, therefore, Illusions MUST grant immunity to ranged attacks.

As a final note, after playing pacman at an almost expert level, having root casted on anybody is an extreme NO NO If i get rooted ghosts catch me... stupid mechanic, remove it.

[Foxx]

lollllll

I once used game genie to advance on Duck Hunt in 1998, so i think we should be able to destroy pets with level 4 enchanter spells.

i KNEW it !!! all you VZTZ are hackers, finally you admit... god damn all red server players use mq2 and exploit game mechanics.

[Lasher]

Bombfist, or Glen rather, aren't you a brit? Did you even play EQ Live PvP servers?

Zoinks! The bloke got a hold of your real life name mate. How can you handle that? He even knows where you hail from. Time to back up and bug out before wermacht gets sidewalk chalk and writes up paragraphs on nonsense infront of your flat

My name is Chris and i am from Wisconsin so in the future if I happen to shit all over you in a thread you can respond and feel superior by using my real name and where i am from

I think smedy is Jonny, the J is like an H like the Jesus in spanish is Hey-zues, and resides in stockholm

No one is safe now!

[wehrmacht]

Yes i played on live on SZ

Claims to have played SZ. Won't say who. That doesn't look suspicious or anything. Looks like we just found Fansy the Bard or Sam Deathwalker.



Post more strawmen arguments and finish with the classic "omg you're not on my leaderboard of live greats you know nothing"

Listen, I don't care what your past history is. This is now, if you want something to differ from EQ live PvP of anywhere in the 1999-2001 era, you have to post why you think it should be different and back it up with some kind of logic.

You don't get to say "well TZVZ had blah blah so this server should be the same". There is nothing logical about that. TZVZ is the poor copy of EQ where wizards tanked the same as warriors and at one point, warriors could crippling blow people for 1000 damage with an exe axe because Daxum just thought, "hey why not?".

[Lasher]

I dont want to get in an debate about how it was in 1999 and how it is now or how it should be. Frankly i cant say with 100% and i dont believe anyone can.

Any emu pvp server the dev are going to have to write a PVP resist formula. Its not just going to pop out of thin air. Rogean was given the vztz code and can look at it for reference.

You say 100-120 mr made you immune to root and if that is true it doesnt really help rogean. He will not be able to just hard code it that once you reach 120 mr you will resist root 100%. Spells always had a % chance to land and levels made a big difference. My knowledge which is old and shady is it was hard to cast spells on people who were above you and on people who were below you it was easy.However the differed on SZ it was later coded to make spells land easier when casting on higher lvl and resist easier casting on lower people.

Bombfist is just testing what he can. He provided data and maybe rogean can look at the stats and be like " Root needs to resist more and from bombfist post i can tweak vztz resist code to make it so that root will now resist 85% when you reach 115 mr when fighting a even vs even"

[Shrubwise]

1 - Make a no teams, FFA style PvP server.

2 - Make a two team, dark vs light based, diety based, or race war type server.


You left out an option, OP.

3 - Don't make a Red server at all and watch the PvP'ers QQ some moar. :D

[Bombfist]

He's literally too stupid too argue with.

This is now, if you want something to differ from EQ live PvP of anywhere in the 1999-2001 era, you have to post why you think it should be different and back it up with some kind of logic.

Wow man, you're right, it's as if i could have tested some resist mechanics or something, and then posted suggestions with some kind of logic.

I think with maximum MR gear in classic ( considering the game will have to scale to kunark) 75% resist to root with 25% partial resists (under 5 second break) would be fair,

Not once did i say "Lets use the vz/tz code for resists seems to own it"

The code needs a complete work over, and afaik the current caster code is nothing like the original code on the server, the code as is seems to point to one single resist check for ALL spells, each spell needs it's own resist check which it doesn't seem to have right now, if you actually read the post instead of sticking your fingers in your ears screaming for 100% root resist you might learn something.

I enjoyed your last 2 posts mr strawman;

Claims to have played SZ. Won't say who. That doesn't look suspicious or anything. Looks like we just found Fansy the Bard or Sam Deathwalker.


Listen, I don't care what your past history is. This is now, if you want something to differ from EQ live PvP of anywhere in the 1999-2001 era, you have to post why you think it should be different and back it up with some kind of logic.

Did you even play EQ Live PvP servers? If so what era and servers?

I'm tired of seeing people who never even played the EQ live PvP servers during this era try and act like they know what they're talking about.

Have you had a stroke or something?

[wehrmacht]

I dont want to get in an debate about how it was in 1999 and how it is now or how it should be. Frankly i cant say with 100% and i dont believe anyone can.

Well I'm 100% positive that I can....because druids have a spell called ensnare which obviously works off the same resist root does. If ensnare landed on you, you would be stuck and not able to go anywhere for a solid 10 minutes on EQ live PvP servers.

Seeing as how EQ has always been crawling with druids, you definitely notice when spells like that stop landing on you. I think you could still land maybe 1 out of 10 or 20 with 80mr but with 100+ magic resist, nobody casted it on you.

Do you think the EQ devs would actually let people land crowd control spells like that plus 8 second long chanter stuns? A wizard and chanter could just group together and mez/stun/nuke everyone in the game to death.


I think with maximum MR gear in classic ( considering the game will have to scale to kunark) 75% resist to root with 25% partial resists (under 5 second break) would be fair


Once again, there is no logic whatsoever to that. You made a statement then failed to define *WHY* it should be like that or give any reasons. "Would be fair" is not a reason. There is no mention of caster vs melee or caster vs caster game dynamics or why any of it should be changed from normal EQ PvP servers.

[Macken]

Root > wehrmacht

[Bombfist]

Once again, there is no logic whatsoever to that. You made a statement then failed to define *WHY* it should be like that or give any reasons. "Would be fair" is not a reason. There is no mention of caster vs melee or caster vs caster game dynamics or why any of it should be changed from normal EQ PvP servers.

The reason is implied, sorry i've not dealt with anyone who had down syndrome before, i retract all comments made against wehrmacht, as i wasn't aware of his illness.

[wehrmacht]

The reason is implied, sorry i've not dealt with anyone who had down syndrome before, i retract all comments made against wehrmacht, as i wasn't aware of his illness.

Sorry but you're a brit and know better than trying to pull some nonsense like that. There is no logical implied reason to that sentence.

Why is it fair? 10 out of 14 classes get an innate form of root or snare. Are 10 out of 14 classes underpowered?

If you want to balance classes, you start from a baseline and identify which ones under perform. The baseline is EQ, it is not TZVZ.

[Bombfist]

I'm implying you have down syndrome, you'll get it eventually, try to squint your eyes at the screen or something.

We'll pvp on the imaginary box bro, not going to let you pvp my brain cells, let's just hope that root gets resisted


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/OrangutanR_800x570.jpg


THIS MUCH.

[Foxx]

I'm implying you have down syndrome, you'll get it eventually, try to squint your eyes at the screen or something.

We'll pvp on the imaginary box bro, not going to let you pvp my brain cells, let's just hope that root gets resisted


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/OrangutanR_800x570.jpg


THIS MUCH.

/thread

[wehrmacht]

I'm implying you have down syndrome,

In summary, bombfist would like stuff to be changed from EQ live. Tosses out some random arbitrary number, can't think of any reason why it's actually a good thing to do, then results to spamming giant pictures when he gets called on it.

[Macken]

No one resisted root 100% of the time. Ever. In any era.

SZ was released after velious.

Your impaired memory has no bearing on reality. You were inconsequential in the big picture of SZ and your word has no weight.

Goebbles was wrong. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your lie, we aren't going to start believing it.

[wehrmacht]

No one resisted root 100% of the time. Ever. In any era.


Instead of whining and trying to make up propaganda, why don't you post what you *think* the resists were during classic to velious era of PvP. Notice I typed the word think since you didn't play then. But go ahead, attempt to post something in detail about how it worked since all your posts so far have been worthless and not describing how any of the mechanics worked then. All your posts are just whining directed at me.

[Macken]

Instead of whining and trying to make up propaganda, why don't you post what you *think* the resists were during classic to velious era of PvP. Notice I typed the word think since you didn't play then. But go ahead, attempt to post something in detail about how it worked since all your posts so far have been worthless and not describing how any of the mechanics worked then. All your posts are just whining directed at me.

Stop whining about people who played before you and after you on some server you supposedly knew all about. It's not my fault you were of no consequence while claiming to be THE AUTHORITY.

I already did post in detail, as usual you are too busy telling everyone lies instead of learning something. I mean you still think root is OP. I don't really need to say much more than that do i?

All my posts are achieving the goal they were meant to. Refute all of your lies and expose you for what you are.

[Bodeanicus]

EQ P1999 PVP SERVER

You have two options...

You have two options:

1) Shut the fuck up, and play by the set rules of this server.
2) Shut the fuck up, and start your own server.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Bodean mad cause he can't clean house like my cleric can

http://oi51.tinypic.com/1yuza.jpg

[Bodeanicus]

Bodean couldn't care less what a sociopathic, anorexic 90's Alice in Chains looking reject thinks of anything.

[Harrison]

Aww, how cute. Bodeanicus is cheating on me with a group of people.

[Bodeanicus]

Aww, how cute. Bodeanicus is cheating on me with a group of people.

Nobody can give head like you, sweetheart. Never fear, daddy is still here.

[Macken]

Dank's dad plays eq?

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

Dank's dad plays eq?

Someone's gotta represent the Danken name, since the Danken bros. are prolly in prison for pederasty big daddy Dank will be leading NMW now.

[Alawen Everywhere]

So uh, hi.

I played on SZ from day one until late Luclin. I never played on RZ, VZ or TZ, so my memories are all Velious and Luclin.

I was a druid. I fought every single day. You might have noticed that I'm kind of an asshole and people gunned for me.

I had a suit of shitty MR gear in the bank. I don't remember exactly what all the components were, but it was stuff like the 7mr bracers. I never failed at an outdoor CR with my 120 gear. Never. Here is my dude: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/character_profile.vm?characterId=631360367144. Note the 155 days /played. I died constantly.

I don't have a strong opinion about the racial imbalances although I do think Field of Bone is an overpowered noobie zone and it does seem like light races get fucked for tank and shaman races, but I don't think those things are nearly as important as Abacab seems to.

But what I absolutely do know is that in the Velious and Luclin era, spending your time trying to stick snare or root on someone wearing gear was a good way to die. One time Meatdawg came to stick it to us (Trump, sort of the pre-cursor to Black Prophecy) in Dragon Necropolis. It took Tash + Malo + four of us chain casting for a minute to get him snared.

If someone claims that it took top end gear to resist snare or root during Velious or Luclin on SZ, he is either misremembering or didn't really play.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

So uh, hi.

I played on SZ from day one until late Luclin. I never played on RZ, VZ or TZ, so my memories are all Velious and Luclin.

I was a druid. I fought every single day. You might have noticed that I'm kind of an asshole and people gunned for me.

I had a suit of shitty MR gear in the bank. I don't remember exactly what all the components were, but it was stuff like the 7mr bracers. I never failed at an outdoor CR with my 120 gear. Never. Here is my dude: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/character_profile.vm?characterId=631360367144. Note the 155 days /played. I died constantly.

I don't have a strong opinion about the racial imbalances although I do think Field of Bone is an overpowered noobie zone and it does seem like light races get fucked for tank and shaman races, but I don't think those things are nearly as important as Abacab seems to.

But what I absolutely do know is that in the Velious and Luclin era, spending your time trying to stick snare or root on someone wearing gear was a good way to die. One time Meatdawg came to stick it to us (Trump, sort of the pre-cursor to Black Prophecy) in Dragon Necropolis. It took Tash + Malo + four of us chain casting for a minute to get him snared.

If someone claims that it took top end gear to resist snare or root during Velious or Luclin on SZ, he is either misremembering or didn't really play.

VZ/TZ 2.0 had a pretty good resist system, even earlier today when Salty brought 2.0 back my cleric had 85% of his judgements resisted on a SK with 160 MR? On the contrary I had 127 MR and I resisted everyone of his snares and eventually ran him OOM so I could melee/pet kill him.

[wehrmacht]

VZ/TZ 2.0 had a pretty good resist system, even earlier today when Salty brought 2.0 back my cleric had 85% of his judgements resisted on a SK with 160 MR?

On normal EQ, I could walk around with 100-120MR and resist every single root then a cleric like Frumpyfrank would run up and nuke me with Reckoning. Full resists from it seemed rare, probably 1/4th of the time it would hit for full damage, 1/4th for 75%, 1/4th for half or lower, then the last 1/4th resist.

Nukes landed easier than crowd control. At least cleric nukes. I don't remember about wiz and druid nukes because the druids would all dot me and the wizards would always be running for the hills.

That is the honest to god way it worked. I'm not sure how this was implemented. They might have just added an if/then statement and if a spell was cast on you with a nuke flag, it would get a resist bonus.



I had a suit of shitty MR gear in the bank. I don't remember exactly what all the components were, but it was stuff like the 7mr bracers. I never failed at an outdoor CR with my 120 gear.

Yea, I never got rooted once with over 100MR.


If someone claims that it took top end gear to resist snare or root during Velious or Luclin on SZ, he is either misremembering or didn't really play.

That would be Macken.

He wants to play a caster on the server and group with his 2 caster friends. I forget their names, maybe it was Xebeken? Wasn't he the guy that got banned for cheating? Anyway, what he wants to do is get a group of 3 casters then run around till they find solos, all spam root and nukes for free zerg rush kills. Can't get free zerg rush kills unless root works.

[Foxx]

there really isnt a fair way to split the races to 2, 3 or 4 teams. Honestly, if you split the server into teams I personally believe you need to make sure ogres and trolls are on opposing sides. i dont care what dumb roleplay bullshit says they should be on the same team, they need to be split somehow if ur gonna do a teams pvp server

[Macken]

macht's avatar is spot on.

Any melee who lies about being able to be 100% resistant to magic spells at all, especially at 80 mr will be called out incessantly.

If you are a moron and exagerrate your claims to the point they become lies you will be called out each time.

macht doesn't like that.

[Macken]

Also, macht is mad at Heresy even though it's been almost 2 years since they ran him off server.

also,


Root > wehrmacht

[Alawen Everywhere]

macht's avatar is spot on.

Any melee who lies about being able to be 100% resistant to magic spells at all, especially at 80 mr will be called out incessantly.

If you are a moron and exagerrate your claims to the point they become lies you will be called out each time.

macht doesn't like that.

It didn't work like that. It's not 100% resistant to magic spells, spells are different.

I don't think Tash was resistable at all, nor any of the Cancel Magic type spells.

It was almost unheard of to resist druid dots, but druid fire nukes were very resistable. Cleric nukes worked the way described above. I don't think I ever resisted splurt but I'm not sure about that. Wizard nukes could be resisted, but I don't think I ever resisted a lure. Mage nukes were weak--they could be dodged AND resisted. Spells with two magic checks like necro/sk snares or druid roots were very easy to resist. Snare was very hard to stick but when you did it also erased SoW. I think I was snared two or three times during the entire year I played on SZ, and every time I'd be shocked. I don't think Harm Touch was resistable, either, or if it was the chance was low.

And yes, you could click golem rods like mad and strip every goddamned buff. Does anyone remember Herb from the guild Nine? His entire existence was farming those bracers from Umbral Plains so he could recharge his golem wands 24/7. The most effective thing I could do in group PVP was to chain cast Annul Magic and Cancel Magic or whatever my top two were. I'd click my goblin skull earring in between to refresh gems and strip the hell out of of people.

I was completely freaked out the first time I fought on VZ/TZ. There, it was all root and nuke. That was a losing strategy on live.

[Macken]

It didn't work like that. It's not 100% resistant to magic spells, spells are different.

I was completely freaked out the first time I fought on VZ/TZ. There, it was all root and nuke. That was a losing strategy on live.

No one ever was 100% resistant to root, snare, stun, mez...period. Do not get confused about what i am saying.

Key words "first time I fought on VZ/TZ" meaning that it wasn't like that after the first few months just like every expansion.

"there it was all root and nuke" for the first few months.

"that was a losing stategy on live" and vztz after the first few months.

three words: measure, counter measure

In eq, for every strength there is a weakness, for every measure there is a counter measure. The counter measure to crowd control spells is magic resist. When you "earn" your counter measure you will have some invulnerability to it, but no one EVER was totally invuln from cc spells.

It doesn't matter how confused anyone tries to get themselves. It won't get any clearer than that.

[Salty]

When big Salty was strutting with shawl, I was never rooted or stunned at any point.

Only thing you had to worry about with magic based damage was tash. But even then, rocking 220+ with GMR, I'd like to see root even be a viable strat for the entire guild on one person.

[Salty]

just sayin

[Potus]

Expansions at Start


Most P1999 and TZVZ players are probably tired of original expansion with no kunark by now. I would either release Kunark on day one or make it so Kunark opens after Nag, Vox, CT, and Innoruk are dead.

Laffo, you give the server to evils on day one then. Kunark is all evil, free to bluebie it up to 50 with better hunting grounds and loot, and then steamroll Antonica.

Dumb dumb dumb.

[wehrmacht]

Laffo, you give the server to evils on day one then. Kunark is all evil, free to bluebie it up to 50 with better hunting grounds and loot, and then steamroll Antonica.

Dumb dumb dumb.


This guy can't be serious. The dungeons and/or zones are controlled by whatever guild shoves 40 people into them. Non-evils can bind in Firiona Vie then go wherever.

[Foxx]

if u dont think whatever team has iksar will have a huge headstart, u are sadly mistaken

they dont have to travel at all to go to newer exp zones, merchants, skills, etc etc.. plus field of bone / kurns tower, by far best exp zones for noobs

[Potus]

This guy can't be serious. The dungeons and/or zones are controlled by whatever guild shoves 40 people into them. Non-evils can bind in Firiona Vie then go wherever.

It's exactly how it was on Sullon Zek. You know what I'm talking about, Fraud, you were in Kunark with all the other iksar leveling up risk-free the first week it came out.

[wehrmacht]

The good and neutral teams are combined for team setup in my original post, there is no reason they would have any significant disadvantage. If anything, they would probably have an advantage depending on what guilds went where.

I tell you what, I'll play non-evil team and all of you delusional people that think evils will have some crazy advantage can go on that team then I'll swim over to kunark and beat you to death with a naked halfling cleric.


Sullon Zek Population
------------------------
August '02

Good: 1485 - 33.2%
Neutral: 1201 - 26.9%
Evil: 1783 - 39.9%

[Macken]

You're also acting like PvP is town based, like everyone is a UO house fighter or something? You don't need to do anything to guard faction on a Dark vs Light server. All the evils will congregate in places like Grobb, if a good team player wastes his time factioning his way up somehow, it's still just him vs 20x as many evils if he goes into that city. It's still a suicide run.

Rann Flamespinner called and said to tell you that you are clueless.




Oh no, an NPC is attacking me. It's totally impossible for me to run to zone line or not be stupid enough to attack someone near a faction NPC.

Rann from SZ called again and asked didn't you hear him the first time.

[Potus]

The good and neutral teams are combined for team setup in my original post, there is no reason they would have any significant disadvantage.


Except for EXP and Loot, kind of big deals in EQ PvP.

[Foxx]

evils are just going to have the edge in pvp because of more pvp classes... shadow knights and necromancers, not to mention 3 of 4 races that can play a shaman are only evil....

its not going to be balanced no matter how u slice it, which is why team based server is fail in my opinion. let people pick there own sides, we call them guilds

[wehrmacht]

Updated first page with new teams selection. Each team gets all classes. It's slightly less accurate from a roleplay point of view but better balanced.


Race War using race as selection variable: Probably the best choice since each team gets every class. Some people will whine because one team has troll and ogre tanks. Trolls aren't even good on a PvP server because they have 5 fire resist. Barbs are just as good if not better due to practically the same stats and no gimped fire resist.

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

[Jigga]

Dumb and we all know its not going to happen. You would think the reputation you have for being dumb would eventually reach you and make you stop posting but for now you continue to be a joke in ooc and in forums

[Bombfist]

Don't be so harsh jigga, besides, i'm going wood elf warrior and putting my points in charisma.

[wehrmacht]

Dumb and we all know its not going to happen. You would think the reputation you have for being dumb would eventually reach you and make you stop posting but for now you continue to be a joke in ooc and in forums

Someone sounds raging mad. I wonder why. Oh yea, it's a Heresy member that wants FFA so they can zerg down the server with a guild of 40 people on a population of 100 server.

I'm not even going to bother playing if it's FFA because how fast the server will die. I don't know of any guild on the radar that will be anywhere near the size of Heresy to play on this server unless some entire blue guild from P1999 comes over.

They not only want the server to fail as fast as possible but to have zero people to fight as well.

[Jigga]

Someone sounds raging mad. I wonder why. Oh yea, it's a Heresy member that wants FFA so they can zerg down the server with a guild of 40 people on a population of 100 server.

.
Hey, if you want another completely empty server with just 30 heresy and 30 random other people, go for FFA instead.


Now the server population is like 100 people: 30 people in guild A, 30 people in guild B, and 30-40 random noobs wandering around. The leader of one of the guilds gets charged with some kind of bestiality sex crimes IRL (probably Heresy). The guild disbands, only one guild remains, server ends .

I guess Heresy picked on you?

[Messianic]

Someone sounds raging mad. I wonder why. Oh yea, it's a Heresy member that wants FFA so they can zerg down the server with a guild of 40 people on a population of 100 server.

I'm not even going to bother playing if it's FFA because how fast the server will die. I don't know of any guild on the radar that will be anywhere near the size of Heresy to play on this server unless some entire blue guild from P1999 comes over.

They not only want the server to fail as fast as possible but to have zero people to fight as well.

I guess Heresy picked on you?

Some red ragin goin on in here

[Xantille]

Updated first page with new teams selection. Each team gets all classes. It's slightly less accurate from a roleplay point of view but better balanced.


Race War using race as selection variable: Probably the best choice since each team gets every class. Some people will whine because one team has troll and ogre tanks. Trolls aren't even good on a PvP server because they have 5 fire resist. Barbs are just as good if not better due to practically the same stats and no gimped fire resist.

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf

I lol'd at the troll part. Because we all know 5 fire resist is the deciding factor in PvP race viability. This is just further proof that you're retarded.

[Smedy]

I'm strongly against 2 hardcoded teams, it won't work in eq. Also everyone will xteam anyway so the whole point will be screwed up pretty quick.

Also why make everquest like all the failed mmorpg pvp games out there today? Every single shitty "mmorpg pvp" game out there right now is 2 team hardcoded bullshit, and it never works. There's a reason why we stick around to play EQ pvp! Sandbox style is the way to go, let the players make their friends, let the players make their enemies, and let the strongest win. Competitive at the highest level.

[Smedy]

I lol'd at the troll part. Because we all know 5 fire resist is the deciding factor in PvP race viability. This is just further proof that you're retarded.

Can't roll troll bro, low FR equals instant death in pvp.

Just like these bluebies can't value the gnome race, do they even realize gnomes can look through walls? It's fucking op in dungeon pvp situations.

[naez]

i always roll gnome for the mass pvp, even though the dark elf hide and iksar regen is op


everyone always goes after the ogres and trolls first, just putting the final nail in the coffin for troll as viable pvp class. whats the extra 40 starting str/sta gonna do when you the first one down to all the mage fire nukes bros

[minakto]

Troll is atrocious in pvp incontestably.Yesterdays of EQ show top guilds tendencies to never go ogre and troll always barb when selecting war and troll

/sarcasm off

[AffEcT]

Trolling about trolls.....

[Bombfist]

http://www.vexthal.com/ooops.jpg

[Smedy]

http://www.vexthal.com/ooops.jpg

a+

[wehrmacht]

I lol'd at the troll part. Because we all know 5 fire resist is the deciding factor in PvP race viability. This is just further proof that you're retarded.

Trolls aren't completely unplayable, it's just that there are so many fire nukes on the server that being a large target with low resists and regen is no blowout advantage compared to barbarian which everyone is trying to claim.

dumb bombfist spam here

Bombfist keeps pretending like Fish Bait is the original guild I was in. Me and Maverix left Holocaust to help Fish Bait stop the Heresy zerg from automatically winning the server. If Heresy wasn't constantly trying to manipulate all the server variables so that they have 0 competition and always keeping their recruitment levels where they always have a number advantage, there would have been no need for me and Maverix to join them. We just didn't want to play on a 0 competition server.

Lets assume the server went FFA and Salty didn't create a blue zerg. Who the hell does Heresy plan to fight as actual competition? Tink's guild of 12 people? That's why I have no respect for these people. They don't play for a challenge or anything like that, they want to PvE the same content for the 7th time in a row with nobody to contest them.

Several people, including members of heresy have already admitted FFA rule set would have lower population and will be the same lame server as before where everyone who isn't in one of two guilds quits, then server dies.

[Bruno]

40 vs 40 bros. Just keepin' it real.

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss107/kpkenney07/40HERESYLOL.jpg

[Alawen Everywhere]

I have quite a bit of confidence that Rogean and Nilbog are smarter than the Heresy FFA zerg.

[Jigga]

Your linking a picutre of 42 people in a zone that has more than 2 guilds in it on a server that could two box. How big is that force really when you remove the non heres and take away their boxes?

You need to stop crying about Heresy wehrmacht

[Bruno]

Your linking a picutre of 42 people in a zone that has more than 2 guilds in it on a server that could two box. How big is that force really when you remove the non heres and take away their boxes?

You need to stop crying about Heresy wehrmacht

Don't speak on things you have no clue about. Bye now.

[wehrmacht]

40 vs 40 bros. Just keepin' it real.

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss107/kpkenney07/40HERESYLOL.jpg

Finally someone has a screenshot leftover from box 2.0. They had even more than 40 on some occasions because they recruited that ROFLCOPTER guild too. Only see one ROFLCOPTER in the screenshot. They were probably pushing 45 when all of that guild showed up

And people wonder why all my posts are calling out Heresy for their pathetic attempts to create a 0 competition PvE server that implodes after 1 month. They used the exact same pathetic tactics in non-guild vs guild scenarios too. You always saw 6 Heresy zerging down 1 person in some zone. Why do you think they all want root and snare to work? They want free, no skill kills.

What's funny is that most of those people aren't even bots, on the fish bait screenshot, 1/2 of the entire thing are healer PvE mules. Every guild fight would be 40+ Heresy with none or little of them two boxing vs 20 Fish bait that are boxing 2 characters and Heresy still lose 1/2 the time.

[Bombfist]

I got rooted and died.

[Lasher]

Fishbait was bigger than heresy ever was. Fishbait got most of the dragon and gods in eq for a while. I think first Vox and first CT and first Inny. Eventually Heresy recruited to compete.

Zergs are relative.Does that screen shot of a guild that is allowed to two box even compare to any p99 raiding guild?

Could probably take all of vztz and remove all the boxes from the equation and guild them together and you have a guild that couldnt compete in numbers to anything that p99 has.

[Bruno]

There were zergs happening on both sides. It was a part of the competition. I have a lot of good screen shots and fraps laying around on one of my hard drives. One day I will go through and edit it.

[Lasher]

Yeah im not denying that. Shit was fun but those zergs when you remove the chars that ar boxed wont match up to p99 top guilds. And its not like Heresy was a bigger zerg than Fishbait. SO the arugment that bigger zergs win is not valid because if it was true Fishbait would of lasted longer. Fishbiat didnt get out zerged they got out played and griefed

[Bombfist]

The zergs happened a little backwards to what wehrmacht seems to claim though really, heresy were hovering at about 18 people when fish bait were taking loot off the server with their 50 man raids, then heresy recruited and got up to the same sort of numbers as fish bait.

Heresy casted root (cheaters) and assisted, fish bait... lol, i'm pretty sure salty received tells from his members because their pumice stones didn't come with instructions.

Claiming fish bait won battles 20 boxes vs 40 none boxed heresy, then putting your exit off the server down to heresy zerging, i'm definitely thinking you're not the real rain man by now. I mean, you've nailed the autism, your math skills are slightly off.

http://www.vexthal.com/rainmanlol.jpg

[Bombfist]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/pivotmaster1908/basketball.gif

[Bruno]

It's amazing these arguments are still going on lol. I don't even remember how long it's been since this shit went down. You guys should hire attorneys for the next one.

[wehrmacht]

Claiming fish bait won battles 20 boxes vs 40 none boxed heresy

This isn't even disputable that Heresy had less boxers at PvP fights. Far less.

[Foxx]

This isn't even disputable that Heresy had less boxers at PvP fights. Far less.

lol u tryin to say heresy had more players than fish bait? prob dumbest shit ive heard from you yet, and you my friend have already set that hoop pretty high.

clearly not high enough tho, bombfist can still dunk on it

[wehrmacht]

lol u tryin to say heresy had more players than fish bait? prob dumbest shit ive heard from you yet

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss107/kpkenney07/40HERESYLOL.jpg

Only one ROFLCOPTER in shot. The other ones were probably on the way there. We've already established Heresy was rolling with *at least 40 people*.

Then to top it all off, majority of those people weren't 2nd account mules while an enormous percent of Fish Bait one's were. Oh yea, you're a Heresy member, why would your post make sense on this subject even when the screenshot shows it all.

[Bombfist]

http://www.vexthal.com/wehrmachtlol.gif

[wehrmacht]

Bombfist still angry about me stuffing him into a locker in grade school. I dunked the fuck out of that too.

[Bombfist]

*swish*

[Macken]

/thread over

[Xantille]

Bombfist still angry about me stuffing him into a locker in grade school. I dunked the fuck out of that too.



Last edited by wehrmacht; Yesterday at 03:48 AM..


I'm curious: which part of this angsty ass post needed editing?

also, after a cursory glance, 80% of the people in that /who search above were boxing. Big Azuur, holla

[naez]

eta

[wehrmacht]

I'm curious: which part of this angsty ass post needed editing?

Can you Heresy guys put the name Heresy in your sig so people can see how bad your guild is zerging the message board? Who does your guild plan to fight on this server anyway? Unless an entire giant, blue server guild comes from p1999, it's gonna be 40 heresy vs solos and 10 man Tink guilds all day.

And you wonder why all my posts are making fun of Heresy? I would get bored and quit or /guilddisband after 1 day of that but you guys do it every day for like years.

Then to top it all off, you already know teams population would be higher but you all vote for FFA so you can try to win the server just by showing up with 40 people on day 1. It's just pathetic from whatever angle you look at it. It's also extremely poor game design to do a rule set that allows that to happen.

[Bombfist]

Can you Heresy guys put the name Heresy in your sig so people can see how bad your guild is zerging the message board? Who does your guild plan to fight on this server anyway? Unless an entire giant, blue server guild comes from p1999, it's gonna be 40 heresy vs solos and 10 man Tink guilds all day.

And you wonder why all my posts are making fun of Heresy? I would get bored and quit or /guilddisband after 1 day of that but you guys do it every day for like years.

Then to top it all off, you already know teams population would be higher but you all vote for FFA so you can try to win the server just by showing up with 40 people on day 1. It's just pathetic from whatever angle you look at it. It's also extremely poor game design to do a rule set that allows that to happen.

http://www.vexthal.com/wehrmachtlol.gif

I guess if you can't dunk with heresy you can always go back to your cheerleader days, though that didn't work out so well for you either did it :(

http://www.vexthal.com/cheer.gif

[wehrmacht]

Bombfist, I know you're raging mad, but you're pirating shitty clips from America's Funniest Home VIdeos and trying to pass it off as funny. Next video will be a dog that skateboards.

Poor Bombfist

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/7055/unledu.jpg

[Bombfist]

Bombfist, I know i'm raging mad, but you're making the rest of the internet laugh at my expense, i feel rooted in place all of a sudden.


http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/pivotmaster1908/basketball.gif

[Macken]

And you know what root does to macht bombfist. It's not fair you are making him feel that way.

Oh and wehrmacht. Some of your points make sense to me. If only you had any pvp cred, things would be different.

Also:

root > wehrmacht

bombfist > wehrmacht

[Foxx]

I really dont see alot of heresy on these boards wehrmacht, idk why ur gettin so mad... besides rexx, knuckle, gyno, lasher ?

I dont think heresy even at its peak had 40 active people in the guild.... why are u so mad about it, did heresy reject you?

[Knuckle]

Rumor on the street big names bombfist, knuckle, and lasher were all in the same vent recently, nearby universes exploded as a result.

[naez]

The OP was actually helpful. wehrmacht's linear resist function is pretty spot on tbh and easy to implement/adjust irl.


also race war teams pretty solid

[Envious]

Didnt read it, because Wehrmacht started the thread.

Imo, hard coded race war.

Live was 3 teams. Non hard coded. Lights not having necros, darks not having bards / druids lead to xteaming. And invul heals.

Hard code that bitch, make it 3 teams with DE druids / bards, and like... HE necros? Rofl

[Haul]

RZ item drop was as hardcore as it gets, wouldn't have any complaints from me if they decided to go that way. As for ffa vs faction, ffa is the obvious choice.

[georgie]

i dont know about half elfs being on evil due to the fact that theres gonna be barbarians and humans in the same starting zone making it already hard to level as a half elf. the evil/good having every class isnt too necessary like i'd hate to compare this to wow, but with horde and alliance each team(before lich king) had their own advantage that being shaman and paladin. it evens out somehow basically. theres probably a reason sony made the good vs evil how it was for a reason.

[georgie]

adding to my first post, i've never played a tz vz or sullon server. but id assume that they would make classes like sks and necros already on evil side regardless of race(human,erudite) and being put in freeport or the erudite evil city. also making it more balanced with the good side having druids. and if anyone has to cry about ports being an issue, there's wizards..

[Cancerface]

Server needs to be Erudites vs. Humans only.

[Goobles]

tl;dr

Seriously. In all your bullshit, did you even consider Macroquest as a variable? How many GMs will they allocate to the server? How corrupt will it be?

Blah blah.

[Stumpes]

I would like a no-rules FFA server. Rules like training and camping a spot have no reason to be on a PVP server.

[stormlord]

Pvp server would be such a colossal waste of time. OMG.

Go make one. In fact, there's already a pvp server that goes up to luclin. We have options.