guilds buying chars and accounts with DKP

[natescraigslist]

how is this a common practice and allowed, its against the rules to sell you accounts right? how is it legal to create an account, powerlevel a bot char and then sell it to a guild for DKP? doesnt make sense if account buying and selling is banned? doesnt seem legit...

[Hibbs]

You sound upset cuz someone had more DKP than you lol

[mizzbiscuits]

I believe this is illegal.

[Pringles]

No real money is changing hands so it isn't something as easily verifiable. I'm sure if they could prove it something would be done. Alas guilds and their systems are black boxes to CSR in a lot of respects. How can you tell the legitimate from the illegitimate and what if you are wrong and dick over someone just trying to relive his childhood?

What's the saying? 'It's not what you know but what you can prove'

[Sacer]

You don't sell the account for dkp, you get dkp for leveling a toon on a guild account. It might sounds like playing with words but the owner of the account never change.

[Jauna]

I owe my soul to the company store..

[Swish2]

you get dkp for leveling a toon on a guild account.

At some point the guild will merge, fold, disappear or something else.

The owner of that account (whoever made it, which isn't "the guild" - someone has that email/password) is going to change its password, and you'll have irrelevant currency for all your hard work.

This is the bad news in advance, and as an aside... the reputation of this character probably isn't of any concern to who is leveling it, so you'll probably find this kind of powerleveling being done in popular XP zones like CB/Unrest/MM :/

[Pringles]

You don't sell the account for dkp, you get dkp for leveling a toon on a guild account. It might sounds like playing with words but the owner of the account never change.

Indeed abiding to the letter of the law while flagrantly dismissing it in spirit has always ended well for those throughout human history.

[Supreme]

It would be a stretch and an over reach to mandate that guilds could not award DKP to members that level/power level "guild bots" for whatever purpose. DKP is a token economy that rewards members for their time performing guild activities. At the core of your statement DKP would need to be completely removed from P99 and by proxy all DKP Guilds.

Good read on Token Economies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_economy) and DKP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_kill_points).

[Swish2]

It would be a stretch and an over reach to mandate that guilds could not award DKP to members that level/power level "guild bots" for whatever purpose. DKP is a token economy that rewards members for their time performing guild activities. At the core of your statement DKP would need to be completely removed from P99 and by proxy all DKP Guilds.

Good read on Token Economies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_economy) and DKP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_kill_points).




https://i.imgur.com/dXuruki.gif


https://i.imgur.com/KTvvHlv.png


You know you got a hook when they start using lawyer/petition terminology <3

[Speedi]

You sound upset cuz someone had more DKP than you lol

This

Also dry snitching is the same as normal snitching, snitch!

[spoof2424]

Keep it clean or panda will Butt in

[aaezil]

Yeah dkp isnt real money, man

You seem way too immersed may i suggest a break?

[Tuurin]

How is this different than offering PL services for plat? DKP (funny money) = plat (funny money).

Also, both are ridiculous and pathetic, but as with everything else on a nostalgia box, you have to ask yourself- who's being hurt here?

[Nexii]

Efforts which aid your guild should be rewarded. Dkp although flawed is the most fair system.

[Pringles]

How is this different than offering PL services for plat? DKP (funny money) = plat (funny money).

Also, both are ridiculous and pathetic, but as with everything else on a nostalgia box, you have to ask yourself- who's being hurt here?

Hmm good point. If you shut it down then it would hurt someone. Guilds are not corporations whom can own characters and pay their members like employees. I mean it's pretty damn explicit in the rules " Account trading and selling is not allowed on Project 1999 in any form." this was changed for very good reasons. Chardok AoE was shut down for reasons of a similar vein. This is just the newest scheme and while there will always be more it's damn funny to see people get irate when someone knocks over their sandcastle.

[Nexii]

Powerlevelling a character on an account is not the same as buying or trading the account

[Pringles]

You are being paid for it. It involves someone trading access to the account to you. These are the signs of what many eminent love gurus call a "transactional relationship"

Transactional relationships of any kind that involve accounts are not allowed.

Don't worry though why break down the hamster wheel so soon there is much entertainment left. Man that feeling when you realize the entire upper raid scene was just a giant hamster wheel designed by certain elements to have a good laugh.

[Legday]

Go ahead a file this one under who gives a flying fuck

[Nexii]

What if my partner and I trade off accounts for a bit to have freaky elf sex as opposite elf toons? Should that be banned?

[Pint]

Go ahead a file this one under who gives a flying fuck

[loramin]

Can we have loramin's thoughts on this please.

I agree with Nexii:

Dkp although flawed is the most fair system.



I mean it's pretty damn explicit in the rules " Account trading and selling is not allowed on Project 1999 in any form." this was changed for very good reasons.

Just for further clarification, it also says:

Currency includes all forms of real world OR virtual currency (IE, bit-coins, WoW gold, etc) AND real world items (Pizza's, Blooming Onions, Televisions, etc). Do not joke about RMT on Project 1999.

Seems pretty clear that DKP is a "virtual currency" and thus does apply ... although I agree with others that this would be difficult to enforce. Not impossible though: we've all seen what salty neckbeards are willing to do for revenge when they leave a guild.

[Pringles]

No
no
no
no one cares about this practice.


I mean I'm just a troll but you got people coming out of spidey holes to file some document or something in declaration of don't care. Isn't that like a double negative document filing of jimmies rustled? This forum really is from 1999.

[Nexii]

Eq platinum is a virtual currency too

[Jaleth]

Eq platinum is a virtual currency too

Yes, and you can't buy accounts with that virtual money, correct?

[Bardp1999]

I frown in your general direction

this post needs more attention

https://i.imgur.com/IGxlRfU.jpg

[Atmas]

Accounts don't change ownership. Basically you would have to say you are against all kinds of compensation for powerlvling because DKP only has value in the same manner as plat. In any case, it's exchange of in game stuff for in game stuff.

[Troxx]

Go ahead a file this one under who gives a flying fuck

[Troxx]

Yes, and you can't buy accounts with that virtual money, correct?

No but you can PL others for virtual p99 currency (pp). DKP for a p99 guild for the purposes of p99 related PL services ...

[Legidias]

Paying any plat for any item from another person is trading currency for a service, which according to OP would be illegal.

[Nommis]

Go ahead a file this one under who gives a flying fuck

^

[aaezil]

I agree with Nexii:







Just for further clarification, it also says:



Seems pretty clear that DKP is a "virtual currency" and thus does apply ... although I agree with others that this would be difficult to enforce. Not impossible though: we've all seen what salty neckbeards are willing to do for revenge when they leave a guild.

Terrible post.

By this logic buying any item in ec with plat (“virtual currency”) is a bannable rmt offense.

[Caldwin]

Paying any plat for any item from another person is trading currency for a service, which according to OP would be illegal.

Wouldn't paying plat for ports and rezzes be trading virtual currency for services?

[Nexii]

What about providing private erotic roleplay services for platinum? Should that be banned on P99?

[natescraigslist]

Go ahead a file this one under who gives a flying fuck

you only say this because your guild is the one of the main body of people doing this.. i know for a fact people are giving acounts to guilds that they created in the past. guild openly advertise DKP rewards for "donating guild Bots" this is such a shady practice and is only a way to undermine p99 staffs rules set in place to prevent things like this... stop bending the rules and buying toons acounts from players and offering them dkp for there info and emails.. in the end your going to get yourself banend and your hard work wil be for nothing

[natescraigslist]

At some point the guild will merge, fold, disappear or something else.

The owner of that account (whoever made it, which isn't "the guild" - someone has that email/password) is going to change its password, and you'll have irrelevant currency for all your hard work.

This is the bad news in advance, and as an aside... the reputation of this character probably isn't of any concern to who is leveling it, so you'll probably find this kind of powerleveling being done in popular XP zones like CB/Unrest/MM :/

its all too true that no guild owns any acounts, its a single person acting as guild leader, or a group of fficers and guild leader who "own" these accounts not teh guild and then teh guild breaks up and merges ect like venerates guild bots going to tempest but realy only nayrue owns the guld bots of venerate.. and so on.. super shady. level your own toons stop buying chars accounts with dkp, somthing u can make up outa nowere.. its the best scam to hit eq p99blue, here ill buy your acount with a number i can edit on a dkp website with a stroke of a mouse click." here click you have 5000dkp now and i own your account thanks come again"8) says the top guilds officer and leader.$$$$$$$$$ "then when my guild breaks up and i decide to go to the next lie TL server ill RMT all my shit " said kiix from venerate... i iwhs those were meems

[natescraigslist]

here is a quote sequence from AMs guild discusion forum openly claiming they pay for a guild bots, not that they creat and acount for u to powerelee a guild char on... so its shady
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellringer View Post
Let's see. If our DKP system is scaled at 4x of the opposition, that would make their last Mask scaled to 6744 DKP.

Hmm.
It's 4x per kill sure, but we pay 400 DKP for a guild bot whereas Tempest pays 5500 DKP - almost 14x as much - and we all know that's the real way the top earners are making their DKP.

You have to attend 275 successful kills to make the same DKP as leveling one bot.

At an optimistic 10 kills per cycle, that's 27 cycles (~6 months) that average Joe Raider needs to maintain 100% raid attendance, just to equal the same DKP someone can make running in circles in Dragon Necropolis for a few days.

How can you compete with that whilst maintaining life as a mentally healthy adult?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellringer View Post
They mislead about their DKP system, they mislead about their raid force numbers, what else do they mislead about?

Hmm.
I'm not sure what these claims are referring to?

Here is our DKP system:
Most kills net you 5 DKP.
Failed kills net you 2 DKP.
We pay so little DKP for guild bots nobody can be bothered to level them.

For the audience watching the mudslinging from both sides, here's how it works in Aftermath:

The majority of our members sit somewhere around 25% raid attendance and will earn in the region of 200-400 DKP per month. These are people that never track targets, they do not stare at walls for 16 hours a day, they do not sit on a COTH mage watching to respond to a screen flicker. The raid when they want to, or they group, XP or go outside when they don't want to raid. They just want to experience the high end content and have a fair chance at some godly loot.

Here's a small selection of items that have all gone for 100-300 DKP in the past few months:
Blackstar, Mace of Night
Breastplate of Eradication
Cloak of the Fearsome
Crown of Rile
Gauntlets of Dragon Slaying
Green Dragon Scales
Halo of the Enlightened
Helmet of Rallos Zek
Kreizenn's Flame
Primal Velium Brawl Stick
Primal Velium Spear
Primal Velium Warsword
Shining Metallic Pantaloons
Shroud of Veeshan
Staff of the Silent Star
Yunnb's Earring

Within one month of casual raiding with Aftermath you will have earned enough for one or more items like that.

Since May, we have had 2,063 items drop that have been bid via DKP, of which approximately 80% were won for 300 DKP or less. In fact half went for less than 100 DKP.

We have around 150 active members, meaning that's an average of ~14 items each. Yes we have a lot of mouths to feed...but we feed them. Our average attendance per raid is ~50, depending on the time/day/target.

What does that mean? In Aftermath, you can be winning your own BIS loot with just a couple of weeks of casual raiding.

Yes, those ultra rare items like Gharn's Rock of Smashing or Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness go for a lot of DKP, but they are the drops some people prioritise and save all of their DKP for. The difference with Aftermath is those people don't hoard all of the loot from their guildmates in the process, and they don't disband once they've earned it

We are also the only guild that regularly contests all high-tier raid targets across all zones. We go for ToV, we go for city leaders, we go for Gods, we go for Veeshan's Peak, we go Sleeper's Tomb golems and -yes- we go for the occasional Trakanon.

As a result of this we have a reputation for being ruthless when we raid. We mobilise quickly, we jump past other guilds and we will snipe kills.

One thing that we always strive to do is play fair.
We do not intentionally aggro Aary guards and consistently train them on our oppositions pullers at Eashen to kill their secondaries and secure mobs. We do not do this to such an extent that five different pullers have been caught on five separate occasions on five different targets.
We do not use raid interference tactics such as opening trades to block click-fest turn-ins for FTE.
We do not have people dumping so much aggro into the opposition mobs that they are summoned to that mob above their own DPS when that mob is at 60%.
We do not unilaterally end player agreements and claim they were ended two months previously, despite adhering to them for every cycle in the interim. Nor do we abort a pull of their rotated target and have our raid force immediately log out when the that guild logs in to record what is happening.
We do not drop mod rods near AFK players at zone lines so we can claim raid interference.
We do not wipe to Zlexak in the entrance of ToV, train an opposing guild and kill half of them, then claim that it was a "clean disengage" and we were not at fault.
We do not get another guild's COTH mage killed by one of our pulls, refuse to rez them, then leave our mage logged in to block their attempts to rez themselves despite there being no other targets in window. And if our mage were to get unintentionally killed by them during their recovery, we would not keep it a secret and file a petition a week later to have that person eat a 30 day suspension.
We do not carefully filter fraps through officers before releasing select clips or edits to the wider members to paint a desired narrative.
We do not censor members who wish to talk to friends in other guilds, or have friendly banter with opposing pull teams, or who wish to waste their lives on RnF. We do not let the "big names" get away with things regular members couldn't.

Sometimes though, we do get it wrong. Occasionally they let me lead raids and we will wipe. We train other guilds. We drag mobs over people when mobilising.

In those cases we try to make it right.

We concede a target as soon as it's clear we were at fault: we don't wait for opposition to pull it in cleanly, debuffed, slowed and stable in camp before conceding. In some cases - such as in Plane of Fear - we typically concede the entire zone, even if were were just worried we'd got an opposing guild's camp AoEd by a golem.

We offer to rez and buff anyone we got killed. We don't just click up a cleric and move out - we click up as many corpses as needed, and will stay back to buff up the rezzed instead of mobilising on a new target.

And finally, whilst the raid scene can be toxic and inter-guild rivalries bitter, we have good relationships and friends in other guilds. Paradigm Shift will sometimes let me train them in HoT. Azure Guard will let me tease them for being roleplaying in Sleeper's Tomb. The Second Sons will let me tank Vindi for 10%. Dawn Believers still won't let me into their Discord.

Away from the raiding you'll find Aftermath can be a friendly place. We have some of the most knowledgeable people in the game willing to teach you everything they know. We have guild groups going at all levels and we regularly do epic fights.

Have any questions about Aftermath, our DKP system, or our application process? PM me on here, send me a tell in game (Monrezz), or...apply today! aftermath99.org.
the quite is in full as to not be taken out of context
the server population as a whole doesnt not want this practice to be allowed period

[natescraigslist]

Paying any plat for any item from another person is trading currency for a service, which according to OP would be illegal.

incorrect

[aaezil]

Dude the rmt rule is only for out of game currency/services lol this is an in game service for an in game currency.

[natescraigslist]

i know for a fact aroen nerfmeharder zeydd sold his acount to nayrue/gogre for DKP under the pretence that he sold his acount to the guild for dkp... he didnt lvl a guilds toon on a guilds acount, he sold his info to venerate/tempest for tempest DKP.. so how is that legal.. it pisses me off because i got aroen his epic.. i gae aroen his orb of inf void i camped aroens root necklace, i helped aroen level and he was a good friend of mine, only to slap me in the face by selling his acount and fucking me out of all those items and use of a rez toon.. rot in peices u corrupt assholes

[Legidias]

So if he did all that for free (say if he was retiring) then you would be okay with him giving away all the stuff you helped him get if he didn't get DKP?

You just sound bitter that he got something and you didnt.

[JayDee]

I don't see a problem here. Does suck that people are incentived to level and play characters they have no attachment to, or in some cases even enjoy playing. But that's more of just a mechanics gripe.

Like a poster above mentioned, it's just a service for ingame currency.

[Mead]

I don’t see a problem here because this is fantasy land and none of it is real lol. One day you will realize how silly this thread you created was. Until then we’ll be amused.

Can move to rnf anytime now

[kaev]

Accounts don't change ownership. Basically you would have to say you are against all kinds of compensation for powerlvling because DKP only has value in the same manner as plat. In any case, it's exchange of in game stuff for in game stuff.

Sounds like an excellent plan.

[loramin]

Like a poster above mentioned, it's just a service for ingame currency.

I don't have a dog in this race, but your definition of "in-game currency" seems strange to me.

Platinum is an in-game currency: it is tracked, transferred, bought and spent in-game. But every guild I've ever known about keeps track of their DKP outside of the game, typically on a guild website. It is literally impossible to buy and spend your DKP in-game unless your guild officer can access an out-of-game DKP system.

I've never heard of anyone who tracks their guild's DKP using /note or any other in-game mechanism, so it seems like a stretch to call it an in-game currency.

[Nommis]

Hmm.
It's 4x per kill sure, but we pay 400 DKP for a guild bot whereas Tempest pays 5500 DKP - almost 14x as much - and we all know that's the real way the top earners are making their DKP.

You have to attend 275 successful kills to make the same DKP as leveling one bot.



This ogremath still makes me smile.

[Ella`Ella]

What if my partner and I trade off accounts for a bit to have freaky elf sex as opposite elf toons? Should that be banned?

Pretty sure this is illegal in the South.

[kaev]

Pretty sure this is illegal in the South.

But rarely prosecuted in Austin or New Orleans, location is everything.

[Pringles]

But rarely prosecuted in Austin or New Orleans, location is everything.

Fairly certain the south stops 1 inch outside Austin city limits. Everything past that is the southwest.

[tsuchang]

Just a bid to bring this thread back to it's beginnings.
I sure am proud of Mr. President for taking Nancy and Chuck into a slice of life they haven't experienced in a long time. Having their steenky feet exposed to the public.
It is good to watch it over a few times. Kinda like is inauguration speech, or the election night coverage. How sweet it is.

[Bardp1999]

Fairly certain the south stops 1 inch outside Austin city limits. Everything past that should be relabeled Mexico due to the massive immigrant population

FTFY

[Vizax_Xaziv]

The only solution would the LONG-awaited release of a fresh server (hint - hint)

[Cen]

How is this different than offering PL services for plat? DKP (funny money) = plat (funny money).

Also, both are ridiculous and pathetic, but as with everything else on a nostalgia box, you have to ask yourself- who's being hurt here?

Plat ingane money. DKP is an out of game digital currency.

[kaev]

Plat ingane money. DKP is an out of game digital currency.

Obvious solution is obvious! Ban DKP and all the guilds & players who are participating in this corrupt abomination of a thinly disguised RMT scam.