Bard or Shammy to complete War/Clr/Wiz

[Ballaorf]

Hi all-

I tried searching for a thread on this. While I found lots of great info about bards and shammies, I think I need a bit more guidance. (Plus, a lot of threads I found saying shaman were overpopulated, while bards were in demand were very old.)

A while back, one of the guys and I rolled characters and I made a Barb Shammy. We got to level 12 or so before we stopped playing (he got bored). Recently, we came back and he rolled a new warrior and I made a bard. Another guy joined us as a Human Cleric and a fourth said he wants to start playing as an Erudite Wizard. We grouped up last night and, as much as I enjoy Bard play, I really wasn't liking it too much in the group. Twisting the songs while meleeing and trying to keep up with the group just wasn't that enjoyable.

So I'm thinking of switching back to my shaman. This will leave us (well, them haha) without mana regen and mezzing capabilities. I did briefly consider Enchanter, but I don't think I'd really like the gameplay of it that much.

My question is: Would I be really gimping our group by going back to Shaman? I think that would make my role mostly buffs, slows, and haste (albeit not the best haste around). I probably won't ever get torpor, if we stick with the game long enough to hit 60. Personally, I'd like to eventually raid, but I don't know if I'll have the fortitude to get that high without a static group.

Thanks for the help :)

[kjs86z]

Convince your Wizard bud to play something else, literally anything else....and then go from there (recommend him necro or mage if he wants to stick w/ that classic cloth damage dealer caster type).

What is it about enchanter gameplay that scares you? It'll be kinda similar to shaman (buffs and slow, but better CC and more DPS w/ a charmed pet).

War / Cleric is a fantastic start to a 4 man group, adding an enchanter would make it a god mode 3s and then your wizard buddy could play whatever (including wizard).

I feel ya on not liking Bard. I played one to about 26 and haven't logged in since. Horrible.

[Legidias]

Bard opens up a lot of possibilities in snare / aggro, fear, or ae kiting that shammies wont have. 60 Shaman with torpor is immensely strong, but since you already scratched that off, I would say overall you'd get a lot out of bard that you dont necessarily get from shaman, while still getting buffs, slows, hastes.

[Ballaorf]

Convince your Wizard bud to play something else, literally anything else....and then go from there (recommend him necro or mage if he wants to stick w/ that classic cloth damage dealer caster type).

What is it about enchanter gameplay that scares you? It'll be kinda similar to shaman (buffs and slow, but better CC and more DPS w/ a charmed pet).

War / Cleric is a fantastic start to a 4 man group, adding an enchanter would make it a god mode 3s and then your wizard buddy could play whatever (including wizard).

I feel ya on not liking Bard. I played one to about 26 and haven't logged in since. Horrible.

I recommended Mage to him initially, then told him to really just play whatever he wanted. Someone else told him to go Wiz for the ports and he seems into it. Since we're kind of casual, I don't want to make him play something he'll hate.

Right, I know enc would be amazing for the group. It just seems so squishy compared to Shaman. I'm also not sure if I really want to start yet another character. Even getting to 5 is kind of a slog, especially since we're in the Qeynos area. My shammy is level 12, bard just hit 6.

Are encs good solo? I've never played one. They have a lot more time to play than I do, so I'll probably have to do some catchup exp grinding alone, so it's important that I enjoy the class and be able to get groups / solo without them.

Bard opens up a lot of possibilities in snare / aggro, fear, or ae kiting that shammies wont have. 60 Shaman with torpor is immensely strong, but since you already scratched that off, I would say overall you'd get a lot out of bard that you dont necessarily get from shaman, while still getting buffs, slows, hastes.

Yeah, I know the Bard would work better in this comp, but I'm wondering if it would be a HUGE blow to them if I switched. We're pretty casual, so if we're just a little less efficient, it shouldn't matter too much.

[loramin]

Enchanters are good soloers, but that's neither here nor there. Play what you want. This is always good advice, but if you're going to have a group with a wizard you're already not worrying about min/maxing, so it's especially true.

But to answer your question, a Shaman will be a great addition to your group. They can slow, haste, buff, backup heal, and even add some pet or DoT DPS. They can also solo well if your group ever breaks up or if you ever fall behind in level, and they're one of the most powerful classes in the end game.

I'd say play what you want even if you were going the other way from Shaman => Bard, but I'm especially in support of going from Bard to Shaman, because Shaman rock.

[Legidias]

I'm wondering if it would be a HUGE blow to them if I switched.

Unless you really want to AE kite (your comp is actually quite good at it too, minus war) no, you're not changing that much if you switch. You lose the bard mana regen, but with shaman in there you have stronger slows, extra heals, and (possibly) more DPS to make up for it in a group slog.

[Ballaorf]

Ty all!

I did some more reading on Enchanters and research alone is enough to make me not want to play it haha

I think I'll probably switch over to Shaman in that case. I also let the guy know that Wizard is the worst lol So we'll see if he picks something else.

[loramin]

I also let the guy know that Wizard is the worst lol So we'll see if he picks something else.

It's the worst from a min/max perspective. But it's not like your group will just die all the time because you have a wizard.

Sure almost any other class will let you kill stuff faster (that's the min/max part), but at the same time no other class (except a Druid) can save you time by teleporting everyone. Maybe you won't save as much time as you lose on killing, but maybe because you can port around your group goes all over Norrath and sees tons of fun stuff it never would have seen without a Wizard.

Later on maybe the Wizard evacs will save you from long and painful CRs. Again maybe that won't make up from the time lost from them being sub-optimal, but I might mean more fun playtime and less miserable CR time.

And way later on, maybe your group will start single-group-farming stuff in Plane of Sky or Hate, which you could only do with a Wizard. Then again maybe not (that's kind of hardcore), but the point is having a Wizard offers possibilities.

If you're all just casuals playing for fun your friend can totally stick to Wizard, you'll all continue to have fun, and you'll still level just fine ... just maybe 4.728% (made-up number) slower than you would with another class.

[kjs86z]

If he's stuck on wizard you're gonna want some mana regen (will also be hugely beneficial to cleric). Which is why I suggested enchanter. Bard also works here.

[bigjeff100]

Play what you all want to play. Wizards are great, when shit hits the fan and a wizzy just starts dealin those nukes out, stuff dies quick! I've gotten outta many situations because a wizard just had to go HAM on the nukes. And also those evacs :) and having a porter in your crew will make life so much easier to go wherever you all want to go!!! Stick with your crew! Rerolling characters is depressing haha.

[Ballaorf]

ty all!

Yeah, I don't want to tell him what to play any more than I would want to be told what to play (except I guess in this instance lol).

Rerolling is brutal. This is the last time I'm doing it with these people. If they want new alts, they can roll them and I'll wait for them to catchup lol

[Jimjam]

Bard.

Bard circle kites 25 mobs with snare on top of wizard / cleric.

Wizard / cleric PB AoE for dps.

Warrior loots and handles PR.

[Ravager]

Wizard is fine for your group, he doesn't have to change, he'll just need to be conservative and always maintain a reserve for those moments when it's needed. I've grouped plenty on my wizard at all levels and the class can be surprisingly versatile in the right hands.


Shaman won't gimp you at all. When you get to 50+ you'll probably want to recruit a rogue and enchanter into your adventures, but there's 10,000 of them around anyway LFG so that won't be an issue. With War/Cler/Sha/Ports you'll never have a hard time filling the other two slots with what you need when you decide you need it.

[stebbins99]

Sup guys! To further on what BigJeff and Loramin said:

I play with some RL buddies and we wind up with some of the strangest group compositions when all 5-6 of us *aren't* online-- this happens fairly often. For instance, a cleric and rogue duo (tank and ENC weren't around).

We may not be composed for "min-max" purposes and are far from an optimal lineup, yet we are still able to kill some stuff and have fun playing together. In the abovementioned duo, the cleric wound up "tanking" / holding agro well-enough that the rogue could still backstab his heart out.

Also, if someone does need to do some catching up (exp-wise) on their own, it's a hell of a lot more fun playing in PuGs (pick up groups) or soloing on a toon that you like and are completely invested in.

Learn from my mistake-- I rolled a cleric as I thought it would "complete" our group makeup. Unfortunately, I learned that I don't enjoy the cleric playstyle at all-- while it was okay-enough to play while I was on discord with my pals, I couldn't bring myself to play the toon in PuGs or solo. Rather than a cleric, I prefer pulling classes!

Finally, having a porter in the group is definitely handy-- unless you guys are parsing one another's DPS, there's no reason for your Wizard buddy to feel "less-than." What he lacks in DPS can be made-up in terms of convenience and time--

For instance, lets say you guys were planning to hit-up Aviak Town in South Karana:

You all travel there and, as you approach, you can see that the entire area is camped by power levelers (or something). Instead of having to walk *all the way* back to the druid/wizard rings and then try to find someone available from Dial-a-port, you guys can instead have your wizard almost-instantaneously take you all to a completely different area on the opposite end of Norrath.

This convenience is totally saving you guys time (allowing you to get back to Exp-ing) and will also help to maximize your playtime when everyone is actually online.

TLDR - play the exact class you want and don't discount the convenience of a porter in the group makeup!

[Ballaorf]

I really appreciate all the responses!

I'm not much into kiting and I've read that swarm kiting is kind of looked down on, so I don't want to be a troublemaker. Either way, the fact that I'm not crazy about kiting means Bard is probably out.

Turns out my Shammy is poorer than my Bard lol Someone was kind enough to give me some plat, so I'm researching what to pick up for him.

[Obeast44]

Roll a Troll (inny god) or Ogre Shaman and don't look back. Once ya get to 60, and get Torp...you'll be Godlike. The only thing that compares is an enchanter.

[Ballaorf]

Nooooo never an evil race!!

That same person who gave me the money ended up grabbing me a handful of gear, as well, so Shammy main is locked in now haha

[Muggens]

Reading the posts of u guys sticking out for the wizard warms my heart - let ur buddy play the wizard! Wizards are cool dudes

[Ballaorf]

He has never played EQ before. Today we all told him to play what he wants to. He said he is leaning towards pally.

[wagorf]

i actually envy that you four RL friends can play together

many players gave suggestions on other classes, that's great from an efficiency standpoint

mine is a bit diff given your unique scenario, playing with RL friends. in this case I really think you guys should play a class you truly enjoy. eq is all about time investment and grinding, you guys should play something you truly enjoy so it doesn't feel like a grind. as long as you got the major roles covered you are fine (melee + healer + support)

[Ion Blaze]

Play what is fun for you. I will say though that the only class I do play is bard cause it's a class that is tremendously useful if you know how to use it. It's a class with virtually no down time in soloing and can eliminate downtimes in groups. The issue is that you have to activity play well all the time such as even during down times (mana+hp/mana pulse/mana pulse 3 song twist). A bard can pretty much round out any incomplete group in cc department, general buffs (hp+mana regen/haste/damage shield), resists, dps from charmed pets, holding aggro, snare/slowing mobs, fear kiting, etc. If you can play a bard effectively, you will get begged to join groups.

[Muggens]

eq is all about time investment and grinding, you guys should play something you truly enjoy so it doesn't feel like a grind

[Issar]

I completely agree with Wagorf and others. If your buddy goes Pally, he actually brings more utility to the group on top of being the best tank for leveling. Your warrior friend can play like a berserker and hack mobs up pretty efficiently. Sounds like a fun group!

[Ballaorf]

After all the flip-flopping, he ended up going Monk and is having a blast with it. A fifth guy joined up and is playing rogue. We have been farming belts to boost him to catch up with us.

It's been awesome so far. Back on live, I played BL (originally druid) and my best friend played Pally. We were able to do some group content solo and played together a ton. But having a pocket group has been a totally new way to experience the game. It's awesome never having to really LFG.

[wittles]

Wizards are fine to have in a group.

Bard over shaman, but in the end, play what you like.

[loramin]

It's been awesome so far. Back on live, I played BL (originally druid) and my best friend played Pally. We were able to do some group content solo and played together a ton. But having a pocket group has been a totally new way to experience the game. It's awesome never having to really LFG.

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