Offhand weapons and fast delay

[Busher]

At what point (skill level) does something like a Jade Mace with 9/18 become beneficial in off hand? It's my understanding that the offhand doesn't swing fast enough until maybe the higher levels of skill to take advantage of the 18 delay.
Thanks

[Jimjam]

Duel wield is a % chance to produce a swing every time the delay elapses.

It has the same relative effect regardless of delay. There is no damage bonus or anything.

Your off hand weapon can still proc when the delay elapses, even if dw failed to produce a swing. Off hand only profs at half rate of main hand though.

Basically ratio is all that is important when considering dmg/delay and procs are disproportionately useful at low skill levels.

Once double attack exceeds 150 skill you can sometimes double attack with the offhand.

You can skill up duel wield even with a shield equipped (skill ups happen off the naked fist delay).

[Darguth]

The way to look at it isn't "when is this good in my off-hand?" but rather "given a number of available weapons, which produce the best results, and in what combination?"

Whether or not your Jade Mace (or any other weapon) is the right off-hand choice is entirely dependent on what other weapons you might be pairing with it. Your main hand benefits from a damage bonus based upon your level which may (usually) favors low-delay weapons. Also, your off-hand suffers the 50% proc penalty so your main-hand is the best spot for a proc you're depending on.

[Legidias]

A lot of words are spoken in here when answer is way simple.

Off hand = best ratio regardless of delay.

[Darguth]

A lot of words are spoken in here when answer is way simple.

Off hand = best ratio regardless of delay.

Some people like to understand "why" :D

[Cecily]

Ratio shows the relation of weapon's damage over X units of time. 10 delay = 1 second e.g., 6 seconds in between shots of an unhasted Windstriker. Fast weapon, slow weapon - doesn't matter because a higher number will perform better when given a large enough sample size. Same ratio = same performance (Jace Mace / CSS). There's no damage bonus in the offhand, so increasing your rate of damage is irrelevant. Only the ratio matters.

[Cecily]

Or in other words:

Off hand = best ratio regardless of delay.

[Snaggles]

A quicker offhand might produce more ripostes and will kill you faster with a damage shield. With Mark of Karn the DS is wiped and it will produce more healing per second.

The main reason, I think, for a quicker offhand than a similar ratio offhand is if you are sub 30 and your damage cap is still there.

Yea though, TL;DR = ratio offhand, stats, cheap and slow ideally.

[Cecily]

Lol people are so scared of getting ripoed lately.

[Snaggles]

Lol people are so scared of getting ripoed lately.

Nah, it's just a factor to consider when all things are equal. Like slightly undercooked chicken. Just blast it a bit longer and add some sauce :p

[Cecily]

Nah, it's just a factor to consider when all things are equal. Like slightly undercooked chicken. Just blast it a bit longer and add some sauce :p

https://i.imgur.com/Ldlde6G.gif

[Jimjam]

A quicker offhand might produce more ripostes and will kill you faster with a damage shield. With Mark of Karn the DS is wiped and it will produce more healing per second.

The main reason, I think, for a quicker offhand than a similar ratio offhand is if you are sub 30 and your damage cap is still there.

Yea though, TL;DR = ratio offhand, stats, cheap and slow ideally.

But the more ripostes you generate the better damage per second your damage shield does!

Also worth considering faster weapons generate more push/minute.

[Busher]

Duel wield is a % chance to produce a swing every time the delay elapses.

This what I was looking for. Thanks
I'd always thought there was a kind of "delay", depending on DW skill, and both that "delay" and weapon delay had to be met to produce an offhand swing.
So a Green Jade Axe (17/34) and Jade Mace (9/18) are going to produce the same dps, assuming your primary weapon stays the same?

[Legidias]

Axe will slightly more DPS technically cause +10 STR.

But based on ratios (and ignoring misses), yes.

[Cecily]

It's worth considering which considerations have too insignificant of an impact on game play to consider. Ripos and slightly more DPS technically cause +10 STR fall under that category as does slightly under cooked chicken. Seriously, that's not how this game works. Advanced considerations are functionality on DS, agro generation, MoK (which I'm pretty sure should only trigger off main hand hits) and push. Anyone asking which offhand is better doesn't need to know about those things for right now, because it isn't relevant to their game play.

The only important thing about your offhand is its ratio, not its stats or damage or delay.

[Snaggles]

In theory a quicker weapon of the same ratio will be more consistent. Averaged over time they should be the same.

By and large most people spend too much money and mental equity optimizing their offhand. It's a fraction of your DPS so don't go with a cracked staff but also don't spend 4-40 times more money to increase the ratio by 10% of something that only swings a fraction of the time. I'm not advocating some type of EQ nihilism of "it all doesn't matter, man...we all turn to dust in the end", or something. Just pushing for a bit of pragmatism.

If you like a Jade Mace for aesthetics or overall feel over another .5 ratio weapon go with that. Keeping in mind skill caps, stats, procs, aesthetics, cost, etc you should be able to make that decision.

If I recall correctly...

Main hand ratio: (dmg * 2) + (damage bonus))/delay
Offhand ratio: (dmg * 2) / delay

Using a 11 damage bonus at lvl 60 the Jade Mace is 1.61 in the MH and 1.0 in the OH. Even if your offhand swings 100% of the time (which it doesn't) that means it still is only doing 38.3% of your total damage. Again assuming a 100% offhand swing ratio that will not happen even if you could increase the ratio by 20%, while beneficial and always appreciated, it's not a staggering increase in DPS unless it's bringing something else to the table.