49 Enc Animation

[MaCtastic]

Since hitting 49, I've tried using an animation vice using a charmed pet. It may not be the most efficient XP wise, but with haste,slow,dot,stun... I can kill nearly as fast, way safer, and with much more mana afterwards. Any thoughts?

[Hibbs]

Yeaaaa I dunno how I feel about this lol, but where you hunting?

[thebutthat]

You can baby the animation to take mobs out, but it's no where nearly as good as a charmed pet. Also it's not having control, and having to completely dismiss it to get full xp is pretty meh. Enchanter xp really shines when you have a charmed pet and cleric to duo with who can just keep one pet alive while you just mow through stuff.

[Tecmos Deception]

Since hitting 49, I've tried using an animation vice using a charmed pet. It may not be the most efficient XP wise, but with haste,slow,dot,stun... I can kill nearly as fast, way safer, and with much more mana afterwards. Any thoughts?

I think you're just not using charm the right way.

As was discussed very recently in another thread here, the animation can be useful. Low levels, when there's nothing to charm, if you just don't like charming, if you're farming lower-level stuff, if you're on a corpse run (and went to get tiny daggers from your bank!), and more. It can even be used to xp, yes. But I think you're understating the XP difference by saying "it may not be the most efficient XP wise," instead of "it's bad XP but I don't mind it" or something.

IME using the animation to kill stuff, yeah, you need to buff him up, and debuff the hell out of your enemy, AND your enemy has to be very low blue con or else it'll still force you to be casting enough runes or nukes to help your pet that you end up using more mana than you would just killing two higher cons with charm in the same time and for full XP.


People who say that charming for XP is dangerous are, imho, just not charming in the right places/ways. There are so many places with tons of open space you can charm for XP. And when you have open space, charm is not dangerous if you're decently on the ball. When I leveled my enchanters, I hardly even used roots until I was up near 50 and pulling 4+ things at a time, because as long as you're not somewhere like sola or lguk or some other cramped dungeon, you have so much room that you can sit safely at max casting range and have PLENTY of time to get off a spell to keep you from ever getting hit after a charm break. Stuff happens sometimes... adds, resists... but that can happen with an animation too. Maybe charming still does end up being a bit more dangerous, but the payoffs are enormous if you're not really, really dead set on safety.

IIRC I leveled Noman in kerra, najena, paw, nurga (droga? i can't remember), cc, com, perma, hs that I can remember off the top of my head? Every one of those dungeons has room to be charming for XP at max casting range usually or always, and you're only ever very rarely forced to fight in tight quarters (as in, you're getting smacked the instant a charm breaks). There's almost no reason to die charming that you don't run into trying to XP with an animation also.

[Izmael]

Enc animation is a perfectly valid tool in the enchanter's toolbox. Just like any tool, it's best when used at the right moment.

Also is a matter of personal preference really.

I leveled 4 or 5 enchanters in P99 / R99 total, most of them charming, but usually duo with a healer. I just can't force myself into charm killing ALONE for exp. It's so slow, boring and burdensome... the whole "nuke for full exp thing", jeez...so annoying, No thanks.

Duo with someone you can actually chat and *adventure* with, is so much more fun, not to mention efficient.

But again, it's a matter of personal preference. There are people whose play style is: log on for only like 10 minutes at a time, kill a couple mobs then log off, because of RL commitment or w/e. I suppose solo charming for them is the best way to getting exp.

Also there certainly are people who play enchanters but don't like charming. It's just not their thing, they don't like the randomness of it, or maybe they have to watch a baby or their boss can walk in any second, etc. It's perfectly fine, in my book, for them to use an animation or whatever other tool they deem best suited for them.

[Hibbs]

I only use my Animation if I'm killing stuff lower level and just don't want to be bothered with a charm. Doing stuff like Chancellor in Illomen, X in Kaesora, AC in OOT..ect. that stuff is easy to pop a pet and slow the mob down.

I don't think I'd ever be able to use it as a viable leveling tool.

[afrique617]

I think it comes down to your pet eating up half the xp. instead of getting full xp for 2 kills you're getting .5xp of one kill.

[Izmael]

You can blur with mez at 2% then small nuke for full exp..

[WarTurtle62]

Izmael mic drop

[Tecmos Deception]

You can blur with mez at 2% then small nuke for full exp..

Did that really work for you?

Mez only blurs like 1/3 of the time, and your animation will finish off something from 2% if the mez fails before you can cast again and get a nuke off, for sure. So there goes 2/3 of your tactic's effectiveness. And then even when you do get a blur, it usually won't be timed such that you get a regen tick, which means the pet may still finish it off before you can spend a few seconds casting a small nuke. And even if the pet doesn't finish it off, it can still out-damage your small nuke. And if the mez does blur, the pet breaking the mez may get you smacked before you get the nuke off. And if the mez blurs and you get a regen tick up to 6-7%, then either you're not casting a "small" nuke anymore to finish it off and your low-mana killing isn't actually happening, or you're not going to get the full XP over your pet.

I see a lot more possible situations where this doesn't work out well than the ideal, perfect "you blur at 2% and manage to squeeze off just enough damage of a nuke to killsteal your pet before the mob dies."


Don't get me wrong. As I've said, the animation has some important niche uses, especially for people who just don't want to charm for whatever reason. But I feel like people who keep praising the animation for being sometimes useful for some people keep overstating how useful it really is.

[WarTurtle62]

I'm loving the discourse! That's the beauty of enchanter, you can have many different tactics. I was certainly using hyperbole when I said 2%, and that is my fault. I also specifically cast Memory Blur, not just relying on the Mem Blur included occasionally with a Mez. Mem Blur works a lot more often, almost 100%. I would also say I'd be aiming more for a 14-20% before nuking, and I'll admit it's a dance between what that means for level of nuke and timing between blur and cast while your pet is hacking away. However, the main point is that you can get just as much experience using a pet if you do this most of the time. Sure, you'll have some that don't work, but you still GET experience. I don't hate charming, but I don't I have to charm every time I play just because I'm an enchanter. Now that I'm 44, I'm going to use it more, but I feel sincerely that up to the cycle at 34, illusions are passed over far too often. I'm also not at all opposed to grabbing a good rogue charm in a group and watching backstab damage tick away. Edit-hah wrote this thinking I wrote the post-but I did talk some ish so I'm still ok with my take on what Iz said there.

[Izmael]

Mez blur / nuke works very well at low levels, say mobs under 30 or so.

Higher than that, mez blur is too unreliable.

The only issue is when then the mob regens a tick before your pet reaggroes it, which happens every once in a while...

But yeah, no sane person is going to solo exp with animation if they can charm.

[snyder43]

I would like to see someone make videos of an enchanter solo leveling using only the animation as a pet, similarly to how Tecmos made videos showing Noman leveling by charm killing.

One time I watched an enchanter who just hit 55 come into Chardok, excited to try out his new animation. I watched with rez effects as he summoned Zumaik's, buffed him up, and pulled the pathing janissary. The enchanter's slow was resisted, he was beaten half to death before he got a root off, and once he did his pet died quickly.

I think I'll just risk it and continue to charm kill :)

[snyder43]

However, the main point is that you can get just as much experience using a pet if you do this most of the time.

Even if you're getting 100% exp, when you use an animation, you get 1 kill per fight. When you charm kill, you get two kills per fight because you get to kill off the mob AND your pet. So you're only getting half the exp when using an animation.

[WarTurtle62]

Snyder you definitely have a point! But I've honestly been able to kill things much faster with a pet than mucking around with charm battling, depending on MR and what not. Find a good necro or ranger friend for fear kiting and you'll love your pet even more.

[Check12345]

Pre Whirl nerf using an animation was pretty lol awesome for when you wanted to chill.

Then Kunark dropped and the lol train was over.

[MaCtastic]

Yeaaaa I dunno how I feel about this lol, but where you hunting?
Grobb guards for now, as I tend to do lots of reading and things around the house, it helps me semi AFK while still hacking away at the XP bar and bank values. I will charm when I don't have distractions, but the ani for these mobs is a viable solution if your not worried about min/max.

I've yet to try and harder Kunark/Velious areas yet with this.

[Tecmos Deception]

Snyder you definitely have a point! But I've honestly been able to kill things much faster with a pet than mucking around with charm battling, depending on MR and what not. Find a good necro or ranger friend for fear kiting and you'll love your pet even more.

As I said before, if you are killing things as quickly with an animation as with charms (and you're not like level 14), then you're charming wrong. No offense intended.

Like, watch one of my videos for whatever level you're at, and let me know if you're killing more stuff per time with an animation than I was with charms.

If you just flat out prefer animations, then that's all well and good. But don't level slower than you need to because you haven't gotten the knack of charming yet and therefore you do better with an animation than charms! Nobody is telling you you have to charm. But you keep saying something that just plain isn't true if you're playing well (that the animation gets you faster kills than charming does), and I'm only focusing on that point in my replies.

[WarTurtle62]

Tecmos-I’ve been agreeing with your points but certainly don’t agree I am doing something “wrong” or not “good enough”. You’re obviously well informed and experienced, but so am I. I don’t prefer animations over charming and like I said, enjoy charming in the right situations. You seem to severely downplay the dangers and hassels of charm breaking, whether grouped or solo. If things go wrong there, I am most likely oom and low on hp when it’s all over, possibly losing my camp running away and likely looking at a long med break. Not good for fast experience. If my pet and ai can’t finish a fight, I can easily reclaim, mez and only need med for more mana, not both. I played in a group in Kael killing giants, and no mez or charm took the whole time due to high MR. Yeah, yeah you need to get high MR gear to give them, but sometimes you’re just forcing a charm to say you can when it’s simply more trouble than it’s worth for a bit more dps. ALSO I have been saying this is all pre-level 35ish where afterward mobs will start to greatly increase their dps and class diversity (especially if you’re just getting to Kunark or Velious). To me, it’s common sense and not that big of a deal. I’ve seen plenty of level 20ish chanters die, even in groups, trying to charm and causing the only disruption in otherwise smooth leveling.

[Tecmos Deception]

Hit me up when you're willing to demonstrate an animation killing faster than charming :p

[Izmael]

Hit me up when you're willing to demonstrate an animation killing faster than charming :p

But nobody ever pretended that.

[Tecmos Deception]

But nobody ever pretended that.

But I've honestly been able to kill things much faster with a pet than mucking around with charm battling

:rolleyes:

[enjchanter]

As I said before, if you are killing things as quickly with an animation as with charms (and you're not like level 14), then you're charming wrong. No offense intended.

Like, watch one of my videos for whatever level you're at, and let me know if you're killing more stuff per time with an animation than I was with charms.

If you just flat out prefer animations, then that's all well and good. But don't level slower than you need to because you haven't gotten the knack of charming yet and therefore you do better with an animation than charms! Nobody is telling you you have to charm. But you keep saying something that just plain isn't true if you're playing well (that the animation gets you faster kills than charming does), and I'm only focusing on that point in my replies.

Gotta agree with this. With Charming I can kill ~30 mobs in about 20 minutes solo. I would say its safer to use an animation but I just cant see how it would be faster. I personally got the level 4 animation and the level 55 animation and I stopped using them all together when I hit level 12. The only 2 things I use an animation for is when I camp PS/RS and Xicotl.

But to echo tecmos, every enchanter has their style and I'll never knock someone for using a different strategy then I would use. I have more of a Rambo style of chanting and that's what makes it fun for me so if summoning a phantom knight to battle along side you while you support him with your mind magic then so be it!

[Izmael]

:rolleyes:

Oh..right.

I can charm a decaying skeleton and make a video you're asking for :p

[Para99]

I would be really surprised if at 49 the animation results in even 1/2 as much xp over a sustained period of time like a couple hours, let alone having less downtime over a period of say gaining 20% xp.

Better to use the time now to improve on your charming so that charm breaks with unhasted mobs below 51 are a minor inconvenience at worst imo. Once you have theft of thought and could be reverse chaming in HS with hardly any downtime you will really be missing out on potential xp.

I played in a group in Kael killing giants, and no mez or charm took the whole time due to high MR.

Giants can't be mezzed. It's not because of MR, they are immune to mez and stuns. That applies to any giant not just in Kael.

[WarTurtle62]

I’ve charm solo’ed the giants in Iceclad many times, including the two that guard the bridge into the Eastern Wastes.

[Tecmos Deception]

It's ok guys. Turtle's a pro level 44 enchanter who raves about using an animation while fear kiting with a partner and who tried to mez kael giants in a group. He doesn't need any advice about upping his game.

(I actually feel a little bad about this reply, but I'm gonna post it anyway.)

[WarTurtle62]

No, that’s fair. I do appreciate the help/advice. I continue to say, however, I Was talking about use of pets before level 34 originally despite the post heading (despute between Tecmos and I originated in a sperate post I believe).

[Tecmos Deception]

If I had a chanter at 12, I'd prove to you that you're wrong. Even at that low of a level, charming works better overall. Don't get me wrong. It's NOT fantastic like it is in the 40s+. Charm durations are wonky and outright resists happen because of level ranges of blues at that point, and your mana bar and regen are so low that casting a root or a mez is painful, let alone a recharm or an extra nuke. But it's still better than using an animation.

The 12 animation is about as tough as the dark blues you'll XP on at 12. But you don't have any debuffs worth casting to help him. Blurring and nuking to snipe XP isn't really viable at this low of a level, your pet can hardly live through two fights if he is going toe to toe (and then you're likely not getting full xp anyway), your pet doesn't do much damage if you pull aggro with nukes so you'll be burning extra mana to get kills, using runes pre-fight is a huge mana hog that'll force you to med a lot without helping you get full xp kills, etc.

And as you get higher, even when you start to get a slow worth casting and feedback and whatever else, the mobs just grow in power so much faster than your animation that it's just never faster XP to use it than it is to charm and watch two mobs beat each other down while you med 50 yards away. Watch my video I did in CT at 31, charming gators. I was killing 2-3 dark blue gators per fight, on less than a full mana bar, for full xp, in fights that lasted like 90 seconds. There's just no way you can do that sort of thing with an animation.


The animation has its uses. But getting xp faster than you can by charming isn't one of them, at 12 or at 60 or anywhere inbetween... unless you're charming wrong.

[Phenyo]

illusions only useful for afking xicotl, using an illusion to xp is just absurd and i'm fairly convinced op is baiting. Or at least i hope he is.

[MaCtastic]

illusions only useful for afking xicotl, using an illusion to xp is just absurd and i'm fairly convinced op is baiting. Or at least i hope he is.

Tried this for about half a level. I've completely switched back to charming, its just much faster leveling.

The talking points thrown out by all are very good reads.

[Pyrion]

There is a place for animations when you are grouped and are having a lot of duties, like slowing and hastening and CC on top. The animation at that time isnt really needed, but can be usefull at times to speed things up a bit.

The other place where it is usefull is farming low level stuff like goblin gazhugi ring.