Endgame DPS Rogue vs. Monk vs. Ranger

[Killval]

Sooo... I have read a lot of various posts on here and have seen a lot of people saying Ranger's are by far the worst DPS and whatnot... Do people have logs to show numbers of how these 3 classes stack up next to each other? I mean I'm pretty sure it is Rogue>Monk>Ranger but maybe in certain fights and via the length of the fight and depending on the Monk pulling and whatnot Ranger/Monk spot may change in DPS numbers? Idk because I chatted with someone a few months back on twitch and he was in a high end guild as a Ranger and he swears he does pretty nice DPS like more than Monks a lot of the time. Idk if all the Ranger hate hearkens back to the hybrid penalties before velious or back on live people being bad and not fully utilizing them properly or not having group attk buffs/sow crap dmg tables etc... So my main question is are Rangers acceptable DPS in endgame for either raid targets or even high end group camps? I really love the Ranger/Monk classes a lot and trying to figure out what I wanna pursue but I don't wanna be sitting around feeling super duper gimped because the class wasn't fixed fully until Shadows of Luclin.

[Legidias]

BFG / disc ranger does more dps

[XeroKill]

If your goal is top DPS, Rogue. End of that story. That is what they do, full stop.

If you want to have a little more utility, one of the best buffs in the game, and a more dynamic role to fill, then really consider Ranger.

If you want to lose XP... like all the damn time, then give Monk a go!

All kidding aside, Rangers can out DPS Monks and even some Rogues, under the right conditions. With a beastly bow, Trueshot and some good RNG (or bad RNG for the Rogues) you can out parse them. Especially when the Rogues are on a bad streak, since their uber DPS is entirely dependent on land their back stabs. I have had strings of 10+ misses in a row, and on those fights, Warriors were out DPSing me. But I have had fights where everything lines up and pulled over 150 DPS.

Lastly, play what you enjoy. There is a place for every class in a raid...except Wizards... don't play Wizards.

[Killval]

Oh good deal nice to hear that! See I love Monk for FD and just the cool lore and feel of them and playing an Iksar is really great and a ton of fun, I like that they can deep dive some dungeons with a Shaman endgame and make great duo partners for that. But I also love my Ranger for it's plethora of stuff (basically everything a druid gets utility wise anyways, aside from charms and ports) It's really killer having built in levitate/SoW/regen/invis/fear kite/tracking/hide/sneak etc... on a Melee DPS! Melee is my all time favorite, all though I am absolutely loving my Enchanter as well, so I probably will stick with my Ranger and if I can't stand it later or whatever Ill swap to Monk.

[Snaggles]

A rogue is easymode DPS. You can buy a MQ epic for like 30k and put anything in your offhand. Game over...just level up now.

Monks are often pulling. You love pulling? If you hate it is it worth trading for the ability to solo or go safely afk almost anywhere?

Rangers have a ton of utility. Yea with a bow that doesn't drop anymore or insane planes/NTOV weapons they are amazing but what isn't? On average, guild to guild and raid to raid besides a few oddballs they aren't beating out rogues for overall damage dealt. Otherwise there would be way more of them raiding.

Comparing apples to apples (gear/levels per gear/levels class) for melee dps you can't really compare other classes to rogues. They are boring as hell with a couple tricks but they do an amazing job at their primary function. They are a quality wood chisel when you NEED a wood chisel. You technically carve with a swiss army knife but it's not the same. That said, if you need to cut a sandwich with a wood chisel you will look pretty damn stupid doing it.

All of that said you have to play what you want. Take that class and work out all the tricks to be the best at your job.

[Troxx]

At level 60, gear quality being equal the default answer is Rog > monk > ranger. Special circumstances involving long cool down disc (trueshot) +\- BFG and rangers can land on top. With a good bow and luck, rangers can score big damage without BFG.

Raid burns notwithstanding ... rangers will in general be behind monks and well behind rogues unless there are significant gear discrepancies. In exp (high level) groups well geared rangers I’ve parsed hover 55-70 dps sustained on average. Comparably geared and buffed monks float 5-15 dps higher and rogues higher still. Endgame raid geared characters are capable of higher numbers.

There will always be special circumstances but in general, that’s where the chips seem to consistently land.

[Troxx]

I see rangers outdps equal geared monks more times in not later game. That's in straight melee

The best ranger weapons range from 0.71 to 0.78

Monk ratios go up to 0.83

Rangers for now have lower weapon skill caps and offensive skill cap.

Kick vs flying kick?


If I’m missing something please enlighten me (not being sarcastic here). If you’re quoting raid parses with full disc burn that’s fine but for raw sustained melee I’m just not connecting the dots. My parsing experiences do not and have never reflected what you’re implying and the raw nuts and bolts do not add up. Monks have superior weapon ratios at most all levels of gameplay. Endgame velious narrows that gap but it still exists and their skill caps are higher.

With chardok 2.0, they also get their own separate and improved tables at 55 and 60, higher minimums on flying kicks, and triple attack at 60.

I’m always open to having my mind changed, so please explain. So not counting a long refresh cool down disc, or melee with a BFG and finite supply of arrows you see rangers routinely beat out monks in straight melee dps?

[Troxx]

I'd they don't have gharns and tunare fists I parse better can parse me yaself if ya want

So ... if you have your BiS ... and they don’t have their BiS ... then you beat them? Cool! I thought we were talking about equal gear levels (ie monks have their content-equivalent class specific superior ratio weapons).

:rolleyes:

[Cecily]

So ... if you have your BiS ... and they don’t have their BiS ... then you beat them? Cool! I thought we were talking about equal gear levels (ie monks have their content-equivalent class specific superior ratio weapons).

:rolleyes:

It’s almost as if there’s this idea that rogue > monk > ranger in terms of dps and there’s no exceptions, regardless of gear. :rolleyes:

Still.. Rangers are for weaponshield, not dps.

Hopes this helps!

[Ivah]

It’s almost as if there’s this idea that rogue > monk > ranger in terms of dps and there’s no exceptions, regardless of gear. :rolleyes:

Still.. Rangers are for weaponshield, not dps.

Hopes this helps!

This if your playing a dps ranger your probably part of your guilds shitty problems

[damstraight4]

Can anyone chime in on how rangers fair in non-raid situations? I'm a bit of a casual player and I'm looking to play melee DPS for the first time (played druid/cleric/necro/enchanter a ton before). I likely won't make it to the top tier end game, but I'd love to know how they are from 1-55. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

[Cecily]

Very fun. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone complain about making a ranger. Moderate to moderately high DPS, extremely good outdoor pulling ability, sow, premium snap agro (well geared rangers are my favorite tanks 1-50), track is fun, solo ability, and a bit of CC ability.

You can add a lot to a group or do your own thing. Good first melee for you and imo perfect for your needs. Leveling my ranger was some of the most fun I had in EQ.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Rangers are fun to play because of the versatility, so long as you are okay with being a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none. Because of this, the min-max culture will shun you for groups so be prepared to form and lead your own. Demonstrate your worth by switching roles fluidly as needed.

Harmony pull singles to the group in outdoor dungeons? No problem. Accidentally aggro an extra? Rootpark it in place before it gets back to your group. Gotta main tank the shit that you pull? No problem (although healers will slit their wrists) in most cases if you're geared/buffed. Gotta yank a respawn off a caster? One flame lick will do (or snare of you have an enchanter or bard trying to mez.) Gotta top off hp on some casters while the healer is focus on the tank? Sure. Anyone need a crapload of summoned arrows? F yeah! LOOK GUYS, I JUST FORAGED YOU SOME GRAPES!

Does a warrior/cleric/enchanter trio need you to do any of that? Probably not.

[Troxx]

I don't have bis, that's baton and claw, I just have kriezens. I'm only moderately geared when it comes to tov gear

Once you crack into velious raid weaponry, you have to consider monk specific weapons. Having those class specific weapons with superior class specific ratios is why, relative to the content being compared, monks maintain superior damage output compared to other non-rogue melee.

My paladin has 34% haste and a velious 2hander. I frequently out dps melee I group with at 47 and hang pretty close to a decently geared rogue I duo with. This doesn’t mean paladins are great dps (lol, they are not) ... it just means my gear is better. My friend is about to finish his rogue epic. When he does, he will leave me in the dust (as he should). Comparably geared and hasted melee beat me hands down by a wide margin every time (as they should)

NToV weapon ratios are shockingly similar with some exceptions. If a monk and ranger have similar ratios equipped, their damage will be a lot more closer. If the monk has his or her velious monk weapons ... well they’re just flat out better in melee dps. The ranger only hopes close the gap by using other abilities. In the case of some of those abilities (spells) the ability to do so is pretty weak. For other abilities like a trueshot burn? Well that’s a potent ability. Under disc it should come as no surprise that rangers can land high on the charts. That ability has a long cooldown.

Rangers? Great class. Super fun. Solid dps ... but not top notch sustained compared with others. What they lack in raw sustained dps they more than make up for with their broad tool kit and spell book.

[Snaggles]

People always assume if you have a less than “ideal” class you won’t get picked up for a group. That’s utter BS. Often it’s just hard enough to find people in the right level range for the slots needed.

I was tanking spore king with a 57 pal the other day, something I thought was impossible (torpor is amazing). I was eventually scampering to find a replacement and would have taken ANYONE 57+. Likewise we had dps rotating in and out over the 5 hours. We needed a monk to pull (in this scenario) but the rogue could have been swapped with a ranger. Kills would have been a bit slower but the damage champ of the group was a hasted charmed frog from the jail.

By biggest annoyance is that almost every damn mob ran and I had to root them (or try) to keep from wiping. We had to camp twice to clear aggro because a nearly-dead shroom walked through the wall in the teleport room we were fighting in. Yea...I’d trade a kidney for snare in that group. Had to split tank two reavers more than once. Flame Lick isn’t a straight trade for monk mitigation but mana was never the problem.

It’s a long grind of a game. Play what you want. If you are a hardcore raider do what the guild needs the most if you want to be altruistic. If you consistently can’t kill the raid targets it’s likley not 100% because Steve won’t stop playing his ranger.

[Darguth]

Can anyone chime in on how rangers fair in non-raid situations? I'm a bit of a casual player and I'm looking to play melee DPS for the first time (played druid/cleric/necro/enchanter a ton before). I likely won't make it to the top tier end game, but I'd love to know how they are from 1-55. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

If you're not looking at end-game, min-maxxing then Rangers are SUPER fun to play through the leveling experience with. The only part I didn't really care for was 56-60, mostly because PUGs are mostly limited to Sebilis which is an indoor zone and your good soloing options dry up. But you don't seem that concerned with that level range anyway :)

You can pull like a gawdamn demon monkey in outdoor zones thanks to Harmony (way better than Monk pulls IMO), tank in the right situations or in a pinch, DPS is perfectly respectable, great snap aggro + roots for CC, etc. Just lots of value in a single package. In a performing group trying to push yourselves, you'll never be bored.

[feniin]

Rogue>Ranger≥Monk

[kjs86z]

You'll have fun until Karnor's greens out.

[Darguth]

You'll have fun until Karnor's greens out.

If you're in hands or basement, it doesn't. Blue to 60, baby!