Two hand weapons not working on pets

[tristantio]

Expected behavior: Pet uses two hand weapon for damage calculations on main hand (if dual wielding pet).

Actual behavior: Pet continues to do damage as if no weapon has been equipped (despite the graphic showing).

Test: Give a pet Weighted Axe and it will continue to hit for it's base damage, as opposed to 90 a hit as was classic (until nerfed later after Kunark release and the mass use of Weighted Axe on pets).

[Uthgaard]

Link to some evidence of this. Never seen anything that would support this anywhere.

[Benebric]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3579

Pets and Haste
Posted: 2001-05-01 00:20:36 | Quote | Reply to Post | Follow
Anonymous
Anonymous Score: Default
Well first off im a 56 warrior on Vazaelle. I use this weapon often for opening blows. Well now i got a sash of dragonborn (i believe 50 % haste) and when my enchanter friend casts swift like the wind (75 % haste) thats 115 % haste. Which brings the ratios of this down to aroun 75 - 85. A fairly deecent delay and some beat down damage. also, its amazing seeing a friends magician pet quadding consistently for 100 damage at 25 delay.




RE: Is this item really lore?
Posted: 2001-02-09 07:43:53 | Quote | Reply to Post
Anonymous
Anonymous Score: Default
Enchanter, Necromancer, Magician, and Shadow Knight pets would use a 150 delay weapon, since the dagger "nerf" made it so weapon delay has no effect on the pet's attack speed. Don't you just love seeing your pet quadding for 91 each at 25 delay? =)



I know those are early 2001, looking for anything earlier I can find

[Gorgetrapper]

I used to ALWAYS remember giving my low level pets a rusty 2 handed sword, because they would often hit for the max damage for that level, which would be 20 (or 21). Then when their level increased (when the pet was 20+ and 30+), the damage would still be the same as a players (when their dmg cap gets increased).

[tristantio]

Not sure if a historical account elsewhere is relevant, but Sammana's has a few comments on it and the hidden No Pet tag that was added later in the weapon's life at:

http://samanna.net/eq.shaman/sham.pets.shtml


Section #5: Special notes.

Shields/two-handers: At a certain point in your pet-summoning life, magician pets will stop equipping shield and two-handers. This happens at a point (sometime in the 20s/30s) where the pet realizes that a two-hander or a shield would severely hamper his DPS by not letting him dual-wield. As a result, he won't equip any two-handers or shields, simply letting them rot in his inventory or destroying them.

Nothing beats the mage summoned belt, don't even try looking for upgrades in that section

There are two very special items that SoE decided pets could not use:

1. Weighted Axe, back in the day people were using this to let pets hit for massive amounts due to the high damage and the fact that pets ignore the downside (the delay). This item has a hidden "No Pets!" tag on it.

2. Di`zok Oracle Shillelagh, AKA "The Slowstick". SoE didn't like mages getting such a powerful slow. This is the only item marked with the "No Pets" tag. However, this is not the only slow proc that could be given to pets, just the only one nerfed.



However, I also tried some other 2h weapons and none of them did damage equal to 2x the listed value (using level 8 necro pet). If pets are subject to a damage cap, this could be why the other 18 damage weapon I gave pet still only hit for 14 a hit or so.

[Ropethunder]

Actually, I remember this as well. It used to be that if you could equip a weapon that had a higher damage ratio that the pet's base damage it would use that instead. Lower damage weapons did not have this same effect.

Does this sound familiar, tristantio?

I don't know if it was limited to main hand but I don't think you will find a 1h weapon that does more damage in classic.

[Mardur]

Here's how weapons affected pet damage on live:

In classic, the weapon's damage had no effect and the pet would get the delay of the weapon given to him. This was obviously overpowered as you could give pets fine steel daggers to considerably lower their delay. This was nerfed but I can't remember if it was before Kunark or not. This classic functionality was never added to P99, although I've bug reported it back when the server opened. Same with Sword of Runes proccing on anything.

After the nerf, the weapon's damage would effect the pet and not the delay. This means that weapons don't really affect high level pets, but could help lower level pets. I'd always buy rusty halberds or whatever for level 1-4 pets for example, as it would allow them to hit for 20s. It's been this way since 2000-2001 to current on live.

[tristantio]

Here's how weapons affected pet damage on live:

In classic, the weapon's damage had no effect and the pet would get the delay of the weapon given to him. This was obviously overpowered as you could give pets fine steel daggers to considerably lower their delay. This was nerfed but I can't remember if it was before Kunark or not. This classic functionality was never added to P99, although I've bug reported it back when the server opened. Same with Sword of Runes proccing on anything.

After the nerf, the weapon's damage would effect the pet and not the delay. This means that weapons don't really affect high level pets, but could help lower level pets. I'd always buy rusty halberds or whatever for level 1-4 pets for example, as it would allow them to hit for 20s. It's been this way since 2000-2001 to current on live.

Exactly as I remember it, I did not think my pet was being limited by a damage cap because I do not recall pets being subject to one at any point in time.

[Gorgetrapper]

As far as the damage that your pet does with weapons, it will take the higher max damage of either it's natural attacks, or the weapon damage x2. So if you give your pet a 6dmg weapon it will either have a max hit of 12 or it's natural max hit, depending on which is higher.

Weapons are mainly useful for processes and stat bonuses as it's hard to find a weapon worth giving to a pet that would up it's max damage.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=109277926942522461&howmany=50

I know it's a thread from 2004, but I actually stopped playing live well before 2004 and the mechanics seem to not have changed.

[Jify]

I have given my pet-summoning alts 2hers to essentially PL them. It's definitely classic 8)

[Haynar]

I don't care how much anyone whines. Pet delays will not be lowered, if the weapon has a lower delay. But enough about that.

Pets using the damage from a 2h ... absolutely. This was like that well into PoP at least. I think it was in PoP that I leveled my first mage, and was awesome having a level 3 pet, hitting for 50+, using some junk weapon from velious. I am pretty sure the delay was unaffected, not positive. But the pet would hit for up to double the weapon damage.

Is it classic? Well, I think live is still like that. So is that classic? Not so much, it was just how it was, and is on live still.

Am I going to change it? I am not in a hurry to make pets tougher.

H

[Mardur]

So is that classic? Not so much, it was just how it was

what

[Haynar]

what
Is it a classic "feature"?

No. It is just plain flat out missing functionality.

Have I known it was not working right? Yep.

Why haven't I fixed it? Pets are way overpowered already.

Clear it up for ya?

H

[Chicka]

sorry don't have links, but I know how it used to work. If the delay of a weapon was lower or the damage higher than the pets, the pet would use that delay and/or damage. This is why you gave you low level necro pet a rusty scythe and you high level necro pet fine steel or mage summoned daggers.

Then it got nerfed. Mage pets didn't dual wield properly and the solution was to nerf necros!)

Pretty sure it got nerfed before Kunark though.

[Mithaniel Marr]

So, now that pets eat all the exp. Will you fix this? Classic right?

[Chokan]

So, now that pets eat all the exp. Will you fix this? Classic right?

This

[Runeblade]

more evidence that the nerf of "it's classic" is applied completely arbitrarily

[Dazen]

true

[tristantio]

I'm still on board with seeing this updated.

[tristantio]

While pets properly wield most two hand weapons now, the "A Weighted Axe" is still not usable by pets due to the hidden NO PETS tag on the item, however this tag was not implemented in classic and should be removed so pets can once again wield the axe as they could during Kunark era.

[username1337]

more evidence that the nerf of "it's classic" is applied completely arbitrarily

Agreed. We came here for a classic experience! Removing the "no-pet" tag off the weighted axe IS CLASSIC.

When classic features are chosen arbitrarily then the whole argument that developers here are trying to recreate a classic server is rendered null. While it's true that some features are technically "hard" to implement due to not having classic codebase and developer time being limited, this specific feature is clearly an easy fix.

Of course, the world keeps spinning on P1999 as people give up but it's still nevertheless shitty to advertise as recreating classic and then arbitrarily deciding that a classic feature shouldn't be implemented because "pets are already too strong".

Pets have undergone numerous nerfs since the start of the server - worst one being stealing XP. Allowing this classic feature now would only increase pet damage and make it easier for pets to steal XP.

[jaybone]

bump

[Asap]

Is it a classic "feature"?

No. It is just plain flat out missing functionality.

Have I known it was not working right? Yep.

Why haven't I fixed it? Pets are way overpowered already.

Clear it up for ya?

H

Are we talking about the same pets? :confused:

[Daldaen]

You do realize you are quoting nearly a 3 year old post right?

[Asap]

You do realize you are quoting nearly a 3 year old post right?

And you realize nothing has changed between then and now in regards to pets, right?

[jaybone]

And you realize nothing has changed between then and now in regards to pets, right?

[Tecmos Deception]

Summoned pets DO hit harder if you give them a high-damage weapon. They just don't take weighted axes. Buddy's 16 mage pet was doubling cats in kerra isle for 61 with a deathbringers rod just 2 weeks ago.

[Daldaen]

And you realize nothing has changed between then and now in regards to pets, right?

Yes stuff has.

Like... Exp code?

[Asap]

Yes stuff has.

Like... Exp code?

If you do research around the time that comment was made, the nerf already was in effect. I've played pet classes since April 2011, and it's been like that since then, at least

[tristantio]

Summoned pets DO hit harder if you give them a high-damage weapon. They just don't take weighted axes. Buddy's 16 mage pet was doubling cats in kerra isle for 61 with a deathbringers rod just 2 weeks ago.

I think I mentioned that midway through thread 2 years ago (original post having been 3 years ago) after they did fix the 2h issue but forgot the Weighted Axe.

Seems pets should also be able to dual wield these 2hers as well. :D

[Daldaen]

If you do research around the time that comment was made, the nerf already was in effect. I've played pet classes since April 2011, and it's been like that since then, at least

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52390&highlight=Experience+patch+notes

Comment made 3/2011

Patch changes exp 10/2011

No. EXP changed. Meaning back then a pet with 2h and weighted axe meant a pet class could level way faster than they could if it were classicly introduced now with pets eating your exp inevitably due to DWing or wielding weighted axes and 2hs.

It's balanced now. Make it so. 2handers for DW and Weightes Axes for all pets.

[Asap]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52390&highlight=Experience+patch+notes

Comment made 3/2011

Patch changes exp 10/2011

No. EXP changed

Rogean: Pets doing 50% of the damage to a mob will now take 50% of xp If ungrouped. 02/18/2010

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3134&highlight=aggro

This is what i was referring too. It was never clarified to what "Classic pet experience distribution" means. Was it changed to the pet taking 75% experience instead of 50%? If that's the case, then my original argument stands. Pets are in no way overpowered, and have not been since the release of this project, or shortly thereafter

[koros]

02/18/2010

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3134&highlight=aggro

This is what i was referring too. It was never clarified to what "Classic pet experience distribution" means. Was it changed to the pet taking 75% experience instead of 50%? If that's the case, then my original argument stands. Pets are in no way overpowered, and have not been since the release of this project

You obviously didn't see fire pets in action in 2009/10 here.

[Asap]

You obviously didn't see fire pets in action in 2009/10 here.

You are correct, I didn't. Edited my post.

Pet Aggro has been adjusted further.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27887&highlight=aggro 2/20/11

Pet aggro nerfed, approx 1 month before I started here.

[tristantio]

Is the Weighted Axe fix difficult?

Do we need to find more proof/evidence of it's use in this timeline?

Or is this a custom p99 balance "fix" similar to Ivandyr's Hoop nerfs?

Would appreciately some closure here.

[Bristlebaner]

Bump for classic goodness.

[Buellen]

sorry to side trak a little BUT

I could not find any evidence so far, but Does anyone remember that Enchanter pet animations would not take 2 handed weapons because they already had faster weapons during classic ERA?

Here you can give an enchanter animation rusty 2 hander or any 2-hander for that matter and they will use it. I do not remember this being the case during live classic time line and even after classic on my enchanter my animation would not use 2 handed weapons from my recollections.