difficulty

[letsdance]

i started recently playing (i love this server) and i now have a lvl 10 hlf dru and a lvl 5 iks mnk. compared to original EQ (i played 1999-2006) it seems to me that the difficulty is alot lower on p1999.

- monster speed lower than in original EQ? (i noticed this many times when running, for example i could run across half a zone with a red mob on me and survived, it rarely hit me, i assume because it wasn't really faster than i was, in original EQ i would've been dead for sure)
- with a lvl 1 barb warrior and all skills at level 1 i could easily kill yellow mobs without losing many hp. in original EQ it wasn't easy to kill even lvl 1 mobs in melee with untrained skills and unthinkable for yellow cons.
- exp gain from quests seems to be a multiple compared to original EQ (i guess at least 4 times higher - i know there was a patch yesterday but i made 3 levels by turning in gnoll fangs after that patch, where it would have been about 1 level in 1999. i also noticed it for low level quests in cabilis, tough that was before the patch)

this is not meant to be a rant (if a mod does, feel free to move it to rants). the core of the game seems to be very authentical. i mostly wonder if the difficulty is more in line with original EQ in higher level? how about difficulty for trade skillups? shall i expect such small differences (as listed above) to original EQ throughout the whole game?

[bman8810]

Surprising what ten years and a good deal more gaming experience will do for you.

You are remembering it wrong.

[Swish]

It depends on the mob, not all mobs are standard run speed or faster...such examples include things like fire beetles/emerald scarabs and the like.

Pathing can also be an issue in the old world, made it out of Crushbone many times thanks to poor pathing on the orcs part (always shout my trains though).

As for turn-ins, they are exactly as I remember for the CB belts/pads in Kaladim, I can only assume that the others are the same too.

Overall the difficulty is as it was, troll SK's are still hard going to level :P

[Nineran]

Haha normally people complain in the other direction. That the run speed here is generally set to fast and they had no trouble out running things on live where as they have more trouble doing so here.

I had no trouble soloing yellows up until level 10 or so on my warrior. Moving past that I started having trouble soloing even dark blues. That is in line with Live EQ.

Quest experience is very similar. I am not sure about cabalis, but as mentioned before, the quests around kelethin are right in line with classic.

The one thing I will say that makes p1999 much easier than original.

Experience. The vast majority of people here are experienced EQers. So when you join a level 10 group. Rather than have a bunch of inefficient people that can barely find the auto attack button. You probably have a bunch of people that have raided through many expansions of live EQ. They know their roles well, and the execute.

So, as stated before. I think you are approaching it with experience is that is changing the difficulty of the game. Rather than the server itself.

In my opinion the server is EXTREMELY close to live.

[letsdance]

you all really think you got one full level of exp for turning in 4 gnoll fangs at level 6? did you really ever play EQ back then? 4 gnoll fangs is nothing. i played in bb from 5-6 and then got almost to 10(!) just by turning in the 17 gnoll fangs that i got. this is not classic EQ. of course those levels don't matter alot, but you never got so much exp for this. i know for sure that i got one level for one stack (20) gnoll fangs at lvl 7. and that was ALOT.

you didn't make one level by killing and then 3 more levels by turning in the quest items that you found during this one level. in fact, quests usually didn't give noticeable exp in EQ, gnoll fangs was one of the very few exceptions. i've played a characater to level 6 only by doing quests back then, without ever killing for exp. i know what i'm talking about.

i am not sure about the monster speed - hence the question mark at this line. but i know i couldn't run through half a zone at lvl 5(!) with a red con on me, like i did this weekend when i ran my iksar to qeynos. not even in higher lvls where the 3 levels (difference for a red con) matter less.

i am also sure about not being able to kill yellow cons at level 1 without any skillups. lvl 2 is double as tough as level 1, thats a much higher difference than at higher lvls.

of course people make exp much faster now, because they are more experienced, and i know it will never be the same feeling. even if we didn't know EQ, simply because people now know how to play such games efficiently. but those things were differently from the mechanics.

[Rael]

- monster speed lower than in original EQ?

The complete opposite is true

[Massive Marc]

The complete opposite is true

True that, you can't exploit in Akknon because of it.

[guineapig]

Sometimes, particularly in dungeons. You will find that you are able to outrun a huge train of mobs that would normally crush you due to slight variances in the mob pathing versus your free range of motion.

A great example is Mistmoore. I can't count how many times I have had to run all the way to the zoneline from the castle entrance with no sow and a slight encumbrance. Now of course I'm not always successful, but enough to realize the value of cutting corners when I'm running.

[Messianic]

you all really think you got one full level of exp for turning in 4 gnoll fangs at level 6? did you really ever play EQ back then? 4 gnoll fangs is nothing. i played in bb from 5-6 and then got almost to 10(!) just by turning in the 17 gnoll fangs that i got. this is not classic EQ. of course those levels don't matter alot, but you never got so much exp for this. i know for sure that i got one level for one stack (20) gnoll fangs at lvl 7. and that was ALOT.

Strange, I only got one level at level 7/8 when I was turning in a stack of fangs the other day. Seems right on par with what you mentioned live was like.

In short, show us a screenshot or a fraps video of you getting a level of exp for 4 gnoll fangs at level 6, and we'll talk.

in fact, quests usually didn't give noticeable exp in EQ, gnoll fangs was one of the very few exceptions. i've played a characater to level 6 only by doing quests back then, without ever killing for exp. i know what i'm talking about.

You could also do that with bone chips and crushbone belts or deathfist belts. I'm not convinced you do.

i am not sure about the monster speed - hence the question mark at this line. but i know i couldn't run through half a zone at lvl 5(!) with a red con on me, like i did this weekend when i ran my iksar to qeynos. not even in higher lvls where the 3 levels (difference for a red con) matter less.

Mobs are faster here than they were on live. Period - i've never seen anyone complain that the mobs are slower here, only tons of complaints that they're faster, and that people can't outrun mobs as easily. You'll have to provide some kind of evidence so people can figure out what detail you're leaving out. And if you're using your jumps properly and strafing, you can definitely run half a zone with a red con on you if you have enough distance.

i am also sure about not being able to kill yellow cons at level 1 without any skillups. lvl 2 is double as tough as level 1, thats a much higher difference than at higher lvls.

Done it plenty of times on untwinked characters, even non-pet classes. Could make a level 1 caster and do it very easily - or a level 1 paladin or SK - or even a monk. Even a warrior could do it. You're mistaken.

of course people make exp much faster now, because they are more experienced, and i know it will never be the same feeling. even if we didn't know EQ, simply because people now know how to play such games efficiently. but those things were differently from the mechanics.

I've given you a thorough response because i'm not sure yet whether you're trolling - but you haven't produced a single mechanic that's significantly easier than live (although i'd grant some quests might give a little more exp than normal - but not the numbers and amounts you're quoting). Give us some evidence on quest exp and we'll see. Nilbog actually recently nerfed some quest exp (I think it was just for certain cabilis quests), so maybe it was a little high - but i've done all those quests you mentioned and more, and none of them gave absurd amounts of exp.

[Knightmare]

i know what i'm talking about.

This claim right here, along with an inability to capitalize the first letter of your sentences, gives me reason to pause and ponder the validity of your statements. And likely sets off warning bells for the devs.. I know.. I've seen it before lol.

Not to say you're wrong or ignorant. But usually, when someone newer rolls on here and questions the validity of the devs doing their homework (on our free server btw) by making the above claim.. and then can not or does not show documented proof of such.. well.. Messianic pretty well covered it.

You may well have a point, however this is not WoW where we come on the forums and say how we remember it and get changes. We need to make a case logically, with proof. Point also: you said these were "such small differences" but the length and breadth of your post belies this statement.

Like Messianic, I too am unsure if you're trolling or not. You say you aren't but kind of come off like you are, maybe it just isn't translating well.

If you are trolling though, "authentical" is not a word :)

[Extunarian]

All these problems seem very authentical and should be immediate investigately.

[Knightmare]

All these problems seem very authentical and should be immediate investigately.

:D

[eqravenprince]

The gnoll fang quest is a great reward for little risk, but I remember it being this way back in 1999. As far as mob speed, I am not able to outrun mobs unless they are slow mobs like skeletons or scarabs. I have to strafe/run to escape.

[Mardur]

All these problems seem very authentical and should be immediate investigately.

+1

[Reubin]

i started recently playing (i love this server) and i now have a lvl 10 hlf dru and a lvl 5 iks mnk. compared to original EQ (i played 1999-2006) it seems to me that the difficulty is alot lower on p1999.

- monster speed lower than in original EQ? (i noticed this many times when running, for example i could run across half a zone with a red mob on me and survived, it rarely hit me, i assume because it wasn't really faster than i was, in original EQ i would've been dead for sure)
- with a lvl 1 barb warrior and all skills at level 1 i could easily kill yellow mobs without losing many hp. in original EQ it wasn't easy to kill even lvl 1 mobs in melee with untrained skills and unthinkable for yellow cons.
- exp gain from quests seems to be a multiple compared to original EQ (i guess at least 4 times higher - i know there was a patch yesterday but i made 3 levels by turning in gnoll fangs after that patch, where it would have been about 1 level in 1999. i also noticed it for low level quests in cabilis, tough that was before the patch)


That's very interesting if that is your experience. In MY experience on this server I can't outrun any mobs faster than a fire beetle...unless I strafe run. In original EQ I remember being able to outrun almost any mob (pre-Kunark) as long as I started running when I had enough hp to not drop my agi. On p99 I can't outrun ANYTHING. What's more...in original EQ I was able to run far enough out of agro range that the mob forgot about me (as long as I stayed far enough away from him). On p99 nothing EVER forgets about you. Even if you run ALLLL the way to the other side of the zone while it's rooted. As soon as root breaks it tears ass after you.

[nilbog]

What's more...in original EQ I was able to run far enough out of agro range that the mob forgot about me (as long as I stayed far enough away from him).

Fairly certain this was a Kunark-only mechanic. We're still working on and researching it.

[tj218]

Fairly certain this was a Kunark-only mechanic. We're still working on and researching it.

That definitely wasn't classic. I don't remember that during the Kunark era either...but by Fall of 2000 I wasn't playing as much. I seem to recall that change being in place when I came back briefly in the Summer of 2001, after SoV.

[baalzy]

I remember mobs in classic following me until I zoned or one of us was killed.

[astuce999]

Fairly certain this was a Kunark-only mechanic. We're still working on and researching it.

I don't know about classic but it was definitely in during Kunark along with the bard song "song of highsun". It's a song that gates a mob back to its bind-point, and then we used to say "it won't come back as long as it's out of chase-range". Same thing with Call of the Hero, if it gated you far enough mobs would stop chasing.

There's one thing about that though, that I'm not 100 percent sure. I don't believe it was a mem-wipe on mobs, meaning if you came back within chase range some time later, the mobs would still have you on their aggro list and start to bee-line for you again.

As far as the other things the OP said, I would like to point out that very recently, mob speed has been reduced.

was on the march 13th patch:

The live server has been reopened. You will no longer be able to log into your characters unless you are using the correct spells file. Please get the latest EQChanges V4 file from the Getting Started Guide.

Everything in the Beta Patch V0.9 that isn't kunark specific has been patched, as well as the following:

* Haynar: Fix for duplicate items showing on merchants, that share merchant item lists with other merchants in the same zone.
* Haynar: Adjusted NPC walk speed a tad, to go back to approximately the original walk speed, before mobs were made to run faster. They will still run faster and chase down newbies.
* Haynar: Slightly adjusted speed scaling, to make mobs jump a bit less.
* Haynar: Adjusted timer at waypoints, so mobs do not wait as long, if they have a 0 wait set.


So while we remember the mobs running faster than live "when we were newbies" he remembers them as being slower, because they have been slowed down, and I think a bit too much myself, with my ranger and feel like cat buff to have about 150 agi I was outrunning everything without strafing or jumping at all.

cheers!

[letsdance]

I remember mobs in classic following me until I zoned or one of us was killed.
that's not quite true. mobs in classis DID stop following when you were far enough away and returned to their spawn points. but they did not forget (unless you zoned of course). as soon as you came within "chase range", they would come after you again. this effect caused the biggest trains.

the exp gained for turning in gnoll fangs to cptn tillin shouldn't be hard to check by the devs. i don't know when i'll have the chance to repeat this with a lvl 6 char.

but i guess i'll just enjoy playing on the server as it is, even if it doesn't match (my memories of) original EQ in every way and stop posting differences here.

[Ozudin]

I've noticed the mobs I've encountered in Kunark being fast as hell. Even after Engulfing Darkness I have to jump every once in a while to get range to cast. Not bitching, just sayin. I have really enjoyed coming back, it has been pretty difficult but ALLOT of fun.

[Dr4z3r]

So while we remember the mobs running faster than live "when we were newbies" he remembers them as being slower, because they have been slowed down, and I think a bit too much myself, with my ranger and feel like cat buff to have about 150 agi I was outrunning everything without strafing or jumping at all.

Can you do it without the Agility buff? I ask because Agility has no effect on run speed.

Oh, and letsdance you're definitely wrong about killing lvl 2 mobs. Any class ever could melee them down with ease at lvl 1.

[Reubin]

Fairly certain this was a Kunark-only mechanic. We're still working on and researching it.

That's possible. I only played EQ about 3 weeks before Kunark opened so the bulk of my experience was post-Kunark and I could be remembering wrong. It also could be just a side effect of how big the Kunark zones were or something...

[letsdance]

I've noticed the mobs I've encountered in Kunark being fast as hell. Even after Engulfing Darkness I have to jump every once in a while to get range to cast.it seems to me that snare does less than in original EQ. mobs always move on p1999, whereas they stood still when snared at low hp in original EQ. maybe engulfing darkness snare effect is weaker too.

[bman8810]

No, mobs still moved they just moved very slowly.

I remember, I was a ranger. That was my only responsibility... Oh ya, and dying.

[gnomishfirework]

Before the recent patch to speed, I never got away from a mob without sow.

I did often on live. I was pretty good at it. Could be pathing, could be runspeed, could be me.

[baalzy]

In live, a mob that is snared with a decent % snare flat out stops moving when they get the the point where they'd flee, they do not 'move very slowly' they stop moving completely.

[Messianic]

that's not quite true. mobs in classis DID stop following when you were far enough away and returned to their spawn points.

No they didn't.

[eqravenprince]

No they didn't.

I agree, mobs didn't stop chasing. They may get sidetracked attacking other people or pathing problems, but I had mobs chase me across West Karana before. He must be thinking of EQ2.

[Messianic]

I agree, mobs didn't stop chasing. They may get sidetracked attacking other people or pathing problems, but I had mobs chase me across West Karana before. He must be thinking of EQ2.

Yep.

It was changed at some point for EQ1, but originally they'd chase you forever.

[Dr4z3r]

it seems to me that snare does less than in original EQ. mobs always move on p1999, whereas they stood still when snared at low hp in original EQ. maybe engulfing darkness snare effect is weaker too.

Mobs at low hp and snared will stop moving completely on P99. I have experienced this many, many times.

It's the snare + the slow from being low-hp that does it.

[baalzy]

Mobs at low hp and snared will stop moving completely on P99. I have experienced this many, many times.

It's the snare + the slow from being low-hp that does it.

Not quite true.

If you pay attention, the mob will pause for a second and then 'warp' a few steps away and then continue moving. It'll be very slow, but not a full on halt like they do on live.

I'm a necro, I have lots of experience with snared, running mobs.

[Dr4z3r]

Not quite true.

If you pay attention, the mob will pause for a second and then 'warp' a few steps away and then continue moving. It'll be very slow, but not a full on halt like they do on live.

No, they stop 100%. I've killed more than enough snared mobs solo.

[baalzy]

No, they stop 100%. I've killed more than enough snared mobs solo.

What snare are you using? I'm using dooming darkness (approx 55% movespeed reduction at my level) and the mob always stops for a second, then warps and continues movings once they start to flee because of low HP.

[letsdance]

i am using the druid snare and they don't stop.

but i would have been surprised if no one insisted that i was wrong and i didn't get flamed for saying anything on this holy server is different then original EQ :p

[letsdance]

I had mobs chase me across West Karana before. He must be thinking of EQ2.

they do that if you never achieve sufficient distance. i never played EQ2 btw, just 7 years of EQ.

[Messianic]

they do that if you never achieve sufficient distance. i never played EQ2 btw, just 7 years of EQ.

Evidence?

If you really know, go find some evidence and put forth the case for it to be changed. Otherwise, you're just assuming you know what other people have done.

When I aggroed mobs on one end of a zone and gated to the other end, they eventually got there. I assume the length of a whole outdoor zone is "sufficient distance".

EDIT: The only thing that existed in classic similar to what you're describing is the way mobs (undead ones particularly), if you aggroed them with a low aggro spell or just proximity aggro, and ran them through another player, they would stop chasing you and attack the other player. That's part of the reason spec trains were so devastating in oasis. On p99, they will run through the player and not attack them unless that player tops your aggro.

I can see that happening if you ran a large distance from the mob and someone else who was kos aggroed them and took them out or whatever - but I did a lot of crazy things on EQ just for fun's sake. An epic bard friend who kited whole zones of mobs wouldn't have to stay a certain distance to the mobs to keep them on himself.

[letsdance]

what evidence should i find? some guide that someone posted after playing EQ for 1 year? you trust that more than the oppinion of people who post here now? why? the best source of information have been forums (everlore warrior forum for me) and they don't seem to be available anymore. so the best source of information likely is now memories of people who used such places.

do you have any evidence that it was not so? why should i have to prove my point of view but you don't?

there is enough old sites with wrong information about several issues that won't be too hard to find.

i don't care really if such things are implemented in p1999 either. my question in the OP was clearly answered: i do have to expect such small differences. in a way this makes it more authetical, because again i don't know details of the game mechanics :-)

[letsdance]

When I aggroed mobs on one end of a zone and gated to the other end, they eventually got there.my memories are exactly opposite and i guess this is why they made the distance check. it would have been too easy for casters to fight single mobs where they want.

[Rejuvenation]

i am using the druid snare and they don't stop.

but i would have been surprised if no one insisted that i was wrong and i didn't get flamed for saying anything on this holy server is different then original EQ :p

You need a higher movement reduction to cause them to stop completely. This is normal. As you level up you will see snare behave as you suggest.