What do SK and Pal do end game?

[pijan]

Greetings,

I'm getting close to end game and I'm curious what hybrid tanks do in raids. Warriors seem to be the go to tanks because of their disc's. Are pally and SK still great in groups at high levels? What do they do in raids? I wanna play a tank but warrior is so dang boring to level!

Cheers

[Dolalin]

They are rampage tanks on raid mobs (not the super serious ones though, you still need a warrior in Defensive for those)... otherwise Paladins cast DS a lot, and SKs help with pulls (Harmshield/FD).

Best grouping tanks far and away, though.

[pijan]

They are rampage tanks on raid mobs (not the super serious ones though, you still need a warrior in Defensive for those)... otherwise Paladins cast DS a lot, and SKs help with pulls (Harmshield/FD).

Best grouping tanks far and away, though.

What is DS?

[Dolalin]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Divine_Strength

[Jimjam]

Divine Strength (like rangers strength of nature but with extra health and without the +attack).

Knights are still good group tanks. In Kunark I might have suggested they might suffer from lack of discs for the very top group content (fungus king), but with Velious mudflation even Rangers can tank that.

[pijan]

So neither does a ton in raids but both are solid tanks for group content? So either would be a good pick for a non warrior tank yes? Does either use sword and board better? I like the idea of shield tank which eq seems to lack a bit.

[Jimjam]

Iksar don't have slam so if you want to sword and board anyway that rules out on of their 'disadvantages'.

Sk on the whole tend to have more effective race choices for tanking.

[elwing]

Unfortunately, some offtanking on adds and some rampage tanking on easy bosses.
Divine str and the lay hand on odd occasions for the paladin.
Some random pet pull/train task for the sk.
Some low dps for both

[Xaeophi]

play ranger np. tank ST golems, tank hots, save raids with weapon shield, tank groups better then warriors and do more damage then palis and sks.
Why play any other class

[enjchanter]

play ranger np. tank ST golems, tank hots, save raids with weapon shield, tank groups better then warriors and do more damage then palis and sks.
Why play any other class

Alleriah makes me wish I rolled a ranger instead I'll say that much

[trite]

Paladins cast divine strength, shadow knights don't do anything the best. These classes especially paladin are probably the best at controlling charm breaks because of their snap agroe.

Paladins' ability to DA and shadow knights' ability to FD + pet add some utility for pulling Raid bosses. They are competent at tanking trash mobs and they can rampage tank trash in halls of testing...but in any situation other than charm breaks , if you have a hybrid tanking, your raid would be better off with a decent warrior doing the job.

Basically the hybrids are much more fun and better tanks while leveling to 60. Then they are terribly boring unless you are going to be a play maker for your guilds pull team. Honestly, if you are a shadow knight sitting at a raid and just waiting for mobs to get into camp so you can DPS , you are effing worthless...

[Danth]

If raiding's your main priority in life--don't play a hybrid anything, play a specialist. Personally I have little interest in raids, and utterly zero interest in high-end raids, so the considerations are different for me.

I've been 60 on my Shadow Knight--my ONLY 60--for quite a few years. I'm well-satisfied with it and it gives excellent service for anything I can reasonably ask it to do. It can solo anything I care to. It makes an excellent duo partner with the wife's shaman (our primary mode of gameplay). It serves as an adequate tank for any and all groupable content we care to do, as well as the occasional lower-end raid. It serves well as a puller when needed, which is frequent and has considerable ability to sneak in and out of nearly anyplace. Overall it's an excellent character for doing the jobs I want to do...but I don't want to raid high-end things. I despise TOV. If I wanted to do that, I'd pick something else.

Non-defensive tanks and hybrid classes in general fare poorly in raids due to their fundamental nature. Raids like having specialists. With P1999's high-end culture it goes even farther and most the top guilds like people who have multiple available specialist characters rather than those who try to devote themselves to a single one. Pick a class that suits the jobs you want to do, and don't try to fit a round peg into a square hole.

Danth

[elwing]

To add to this, pal and sk tank better than rangers in group/trash content, but on raid boss the ranger disc makes them slightly more useful...


I still can't understand why the two hybrid tank class don't have any tanking disc while bard and ranger get some...

[Brut]

Get spammed with tells to swap to a different class.

[beargryllz]

Paladins are mandatory for DS and have a good group heal so you can save on prayers of life recharges

I can't see any situation where you need more than 1 paladin or any number of SKs unless you're doing like an SK epic quest

They'll sometimes save the day if you get adds and the warriors are too lazy to use root net charges

[Brut]

Depends how serious and competitive said raid is. If your guild is struggling to get the numbers at some poor attendance hours, they will look at the rubbish classes and think "why can't he log on a cleric/rogue? I know he has access to one".

And this isn't some specific guild grievance. Every serious raiding guild has/will do this. Is normal.

[Jimjam]

Depends how serious and competitive said raid is. If your guild is struggling to get the numbers at some poor attendance hours, they will look at the rubbish classes and think "why can't he log on a cleric/rogue? I know he has access to one".

And this isn't some specific guild grievance. Every serious raiding guild has/will do this. Is normal.

This is true. I've been docked dkp for bringing warrior over warrior to dps. Likewise I've been docked dkp for the reverse.

EQ R SRS and CONFUSE!

[24kanthony]

I main a 60 SK. He was great for grouping and soloing while I leveled and when raiding with my guild, I have way more to do than most people. I can pet track while we wait, help with training trash away, goalie adds, occupy the raid mob's pet, or my usual which is tagging the raid mob off the monk and bringing it in to the raid for the kill. I'm strong and sneaky enough to go get a golem or drako FTE in fear. I really like that I'm not stuck in camp till the mob comes in.

[Brut]

You can, but all of these things can be completed by other classes all the same. Or better, if you played a monk (who then returns to camp and does 3x your dps while they're at it). It doesn't require any specific utility only an SK has, since you could SoW a wizard and have them spamclick tash rod to tag mobs.

You can always argue how this and that class has utility, but ultimately classic EQ has no real raid role for many classes. Knights being the main offender. So your only way of contributing is to do roles that aren't really class dependant. And by the end of the day, you'd done a better job at it if you were an ikky monkey.

[Danth]

Not to mention half the classes that have a raid role, that role amounts to maybe casting a buff or some such. I much prefer the SK over such classes as at least you can show up without being constantly hassled for this or that.

Danth

[24kanthony]

Just did ring war in GD. Calls for SKs were loud. SKs came through. There are some jobs we do best.

[Synthlol]

Paladins are buffbots that have innate soulfire (lay hands).

Shadowknights, with their pets, strong aggro spells, FD, and instant invis, are part of the pull team.

[beargryllz]

Paladins are buffbots that have innate soulfire (lay hands).

Shadowknights, with their pets, strong aggro spells, FD, and instant invis, are part of the pull team.

This is a good point

SKs can do the pet pull train up without sacrificing a druid for spot heals back in camp

[XeroKill]

Not to mention a SK can single pull anything that can be snared way easier than any other class. They are really strong on the pull team when used well, making splits and tags for the monks super easy mode. I am surprised they are not used more often. So many times I watch monks sit there and fumble around for 10 minutes to get the right split (cause none of them seem to understand how to reset standing timers, but that is beside the point) when a SK could do it in 30 seconds.

[Dildy]

Paladin can tank most things other than big raid bosses. Group heal and self heal in HoT or basically keep myself or dps alive during aoe boss fights. They bring a lot of utility and can instantly save a raid with a well timed LoH on a tank or vital char. Dps is pretty much garbage til chardok 2.0(if that ever happens). Divine strength for 200hp and Divine aura for tricky pulls or an oh shit I grabbed aggro to take some pressure off the tank pop DA to give tank aggro back.