Mobs in flee mode should re-engage if you sit down

[Dolalin]

Mobs which are in flee mode should return and smack you if you sit down. When you are smacked and stand back up, they should start fleeing again.

I think most of us remember this from classic, but it doesn't work this way on p99.

Evidence:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2596&p=1#m100266734142284

[Rygar]

Just for the casual bug report skimmer, here are the relevant quotes I found from your link:
Oct 09 2001
Well I have seen a few mention that this mob , along with others , are hard to catch and finish bc of them being sowed. Heres a trick I have learned , it has worked with anything I have tried it with , when he starts running and you cant keep up for some reason just sit down , he will think you are an easy mark and come back for you . When he is in range stand back up and hit him , continue if needed til your able to keep up . Of course not always an option if you have to becareful with adds .
Oct 10 2001
Oppss , meant in the last stages of battle while he is running away with not much health , if hes sowed its hard to keep up . Thats when sitting down will help , he comes back to you when your sitting wether 1 hp left or more, still will come back.

I've been gathering some evidence on NPC flee mechanics, and since you've posted this I'll share some other links I found as well. I came across a mention of sitting to get a mob to come back and I was skeptical, but now your mention makes me believe it is a thing. However, best I could guess is they would only turn around if the top person on the hate list would sit. I was a tank myself and many times the mob would flee but not whack a caster sitting down. I never knew about this mechanic myself back in the day, I've no clue if it is like this today on live or was patched out and at some point.

3/9/01: (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/%22theft$20of$20thought%22%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/XBubUafSs_g/sH1F03vw_m0J)
If you are in a dungeon and a MOB gets away DON'T chase it unless its
almost dead and you are sure you can kill it in a couple of hits (rogues
are good for this). MOBs only run a certain distance away and stop, but
they will keep running if you keep chasing them. They will run through the
dungeon bringing a train back down on you. A good trick to use is to sit
down, this will bring the running MOB back to you. Nukers don't be shy
about dropping those runners, better that you over burn on them than to let
them bring a train back on you.

I also bolded the portion about them running only a certain distance (my best guess is somewhere between 200 - 300 units), as I was looking into that too. Found more support for it:
9/7/99: (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.games.everquest/VK-ioRIVuzA/BOIhbNp1sKMJ;context-place=msg/alt.games.everquest/XBubUafSs_g/sH1F03vw_m0J)
A few days ago I was in CB and seen some one using a bow and arrow hitting a
guy and it died standing there it didnt even move. Is this a big or are the
orcs just dumb? thanks
Note that some rightfully claimed this mob could have been snared or rooted, but others chimed in about them only fleeing a certain distance and stopping.

I have noticed in the swamp when playing my Troll, when a Froglok gets down
and health and runs, sometimes it doesn't run far enough away to be out of
bow range. (They run away and sit to gain a bit of health before attacking
again) I have killed quite a few with a bow that way, because they don't
start coming back towards you until they get a certain percentage of HP
back. If you keep hitting them with arrows, they will stay put. Not really
sure if this is a bug, but if I see my enemy sitting there I really hope
Verant doesn't expect me to sit down and wait for it to come back and get a
few cheapshots in!

Araknus
Troll Warrior lvl 10, Innorruk
Note that poster is a Troll warrior so snare is not in play, and mentions the faster state of HP regen. Another poster backs him up on it not being a root/snare thing:
I have also noted this behavior with gnolls when I am the only one around so
root/snare is not an issue. The original poster is correct....some creatures
will run away and stop in bow range trying to heal but can get struck with
arrows or spells. The place I have noted this is in BlackBurrow at the first
bridge when you go downstairs.

Not sure again if this is in play on live today or patched out at some point lost in history, but there are mentions of it being around in 1999 and 2001. Just was hoping to get more posts mentioning this.

I know this is not in play on P99 as I have seen Jaeil the Wretched get aggroed in a raid and sent into flee mode in the Hole, and he ran up to the pit drop off area, which is a huge distance. To be clear, if someone on his hate list was following him the whole way this would be possible, but no one was. I believe the mobs were just coded to only flee up to a certain distance away from nearest PC on hate list.

But back to the original subject of sitting to bring a fleeing mob back, I am indeed thinking this was a thing, but would be nice to find more than 2 posts on it (and not sure if staff would view it as exploit potential on unsnareable / unrootable mobs).

[feniin]

It was definitely a thing but you're right, I can't find any other supporting information since it was a general mechanic.

[Pringles]

Bump. With the ease of snare due to Chardok 2.0 I see little reason not to implement this classic mechanic. If more evidence is need I'm sure we can dig more up.

[GlassDeviant]

I don't remember this stopping thing, mobs always just ran (and trained) until they had enough hp to want to come back and attack, unless they either had heal spells which they'd stop to cast or they got stuck on a terrain vertex or in a corner. PEQ surprised me in that if I overrun a fleeing mob it will turn to be moving away from me again. I don't recall this happening at any time from beta 3 through to when I quit playing for good, some time around VoA. Beta reports had to be pretty explicit, too, up until they flooded the servers with the final wave of testers for load testing (called beta 3.5).

[Pringles]

I don't remember this stopping thing, mobs always just ran (and trained) until they had enough hp to want to come back and attack, unless they either had heal spells which they'd stop to cast or they got stuck on a terrain vertex or in a corner. PEQ surprised me in that if I overrun a fleeing mob it will turn to be moving away from me again. I don't recall this happening at any time from beta 3 through to when I quit playing for good, some time around VoA. Beta reports had to be pretty explicit, too, up until they flooded the servers with the final wave of testers for load testing (called beta 3.5).

Generally ancedontal information is not enough to provide evidence. We have in era evidence contrary to your assertions. 20 years is a long time to keep accurate memories. The evidence we have provided is from the classic timeline. I would suggest finding evidence that supports your position from in era sources.

[GlassDeviant]

Not to be a DB, but none of the evidence presented is anything but anecdotal and beyond that it is third party and limited. If there were a great body of such observations I could concede the point, indeed I wouldn't have posted in the first place, but the sum of all provided information is less than a handful of historical anecdotal observations out of what, hundreds of thousands of posts on allakhazam?

Just sayin'.

Note: I am not saying the OP is incorrect, fleeing mobs did return if you sat down. I am saying I never saw the behaviour quoted (unattributed) in Rygars response, regarding mobs running only a limited distance then stopping, unless they got hung up on a terrain feature.

[Pringles]

Not to be a DB, but none of the evidence presented is anything but anecdotal and beyond that it is third party and limited. If there were a great body of such observations I could concede the point, indeed I wouldn't have posted in the first place, but the sum of all provided information is less than a handful of historical anecdotal observations out of what, hundreds of thousands of posts on allakhazam?

Just sayin'.

Note: I am not saying the OP is incorrect, fleeing mobs did return if you sat down. I am saying I never saw the behaviour quoted (unattributed) in Rygars response, regarding mobs running only a limited distance then stopping, unless they got hung up on a terrain feature.

I think you misunderstand me those "ancedotes" are in era. Your memories however are far removed from those days.

[Rygar]

Not to be a DB, but none of the evidence presented is anything but anecdotal and beyond that it is third party and limited. If there were a great body of such observations I could concede the point, indeed I wouldn't have posted in the first place, but the sum of all provided information is less than a handful of historical anecdotal observations out of what, hundreds of thousands of posts on allakhazam?

Just sayin'.

Note: I am not saying the OP is incorrect, fleeing mobs did return if you sat down. I am saying I never saw the behaviour quoted (unattributed) in Rygars response, regarding mobs running only a limited distance then stopping, unless they got hung up on a terrain feature.

I'm not saying I'm right with that, but was just something i flagged for further research. Just shared it for now since it was on topic

[Jan Jensen]

In contrast, I distinctly remember mobs only fleeing a certain distance (extended if you moved closer), but I don't remember, whatsoever, this "sit down" feature to cancel fleeing.

[Dolalin]

I don't remember the sitting-and-they-come-back thing working in group situations. So it must have been something like, top- or only-on-the-hate-list? Or top by a big margin? Then if you're sitting, come back and smack.

[Izmael]

Played live pre-Velious and don't remember this mechanic.

[kaev]

Fleeing mobs returning when you sit was definitely a thing if you were solo and nobody else was on hate list. Two examples:
- Soloing crocs in Oasis with my baby warrior it was a very useful technique to avoid having to chase a barely fleeing mob past kos mobs.
- Soloing ghouls in lguk on my paladin I used it to avoid adds when root broke or was resisted while mob was still healthy enough to move quickly.

[GlassDeviant]

Has anyone been through the patch notes from that time? Or better yet, does anyone have access to SOE/Verant developer notes, GM/Guide support case histories, anything where someone not a player has had anything to say on the subject?

[Izmael]

Not sure if this has already been taken care of / discussed here.

When an NPC flees because of being low HP, and you, the attacker, sit down, isn't the NPC supposed to immediately come back and whack you?

I think I remember doing it on my druid back on live, joggling with the NPC running back and forth by sitting/standing (not sure why.. probably just for fun).

I quit my druid in early 2001 so it has to be relevant to P99 time frame.

[feniin]

It's been brought up but I don't think there was enough documented evidence even though many of us remember it happening.

[Dolalin]

More evidence from classic:


10/18/99

Not hugely, but I did burn 700 mana trying to smite a willowisp
yesterday in Befallen (it still didn't die, I ended up having to gate
as it wouldn't leave me alone to let me med - just comes up, hits you
and fucks off, you HAVE to kill it with magic unless you fancy chasing
the damn thing through the entire dungeon)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/5wlCXSp3JEs/WBWdNO_HVKgJ

[Intensifier]

Yes NPCs always loved to take a shot at a sitting it no matter what practically only enough hate would prevent this. Typically a pet or tank.. everything else monks rogues anything without a significant amount of threat couldn't stop them from getting that sit hit.

To note it all works beautifully outside of the fleeing sit n hit.

[Ligma]

There was some calculation from their hp and your hp to determine if sitting or low hp would get them to hit you.

Not in era but at one point there was a bug where you could agro mobs in the nexus with dispell but you couldn't hit them. I tried to kill one with DS but it was impossible to get it to die even when sitting with low hp agro.

[DMN]

I brought this issue up previously. If you sat down mobs would come back and attack you. mobs also would only flee a certain distance and sort of do a little dance there, maybe just out of casting range of most spells.

Might consider searching for the term CWG Model EXG or charred guardian shield. It was something of a rite of passage for a druid to solo this and the only way you can finish her off is to get her into flee hp levels and keep sitting down so she comes back and hits you to finally die on your damage shield.

[DMN]

As a side note, I don't remember them coming back immediately if you sat down unless they had run their max distance away FIRST. after they run that distance away if you are sitting down they will come back to try and attack you.


edit
Oh I found this but it's 2003;

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=3546


"As for tips: Druids with their 2 damage shields, and negligible melee skills should be able to do her no problem. I think I was above 44 and nothing else aggroed. Fight her on the bridge, where she spawns. When she walks, just sit down, she will come back sooner or later. Just sit as soon as she walks. I think I usually had to heal myself once per fight. Good luck."

On P99 the clockwork would probably just keep running and aggro a bunch of mobs until it was above "flee health" levels. And there is no way doing that would this guy be able to kill here with that strat if that's how it worked.

[Nirgon]

Yes! They would if you sat!

They should go for the sitting player.

[loramin]

I don't have classic evidence for this (sorry), but hopefully y'all already understand how this mechanic should work, and this is just an implementation issue.

As I remember things on live, a fleeing mob would always come back to you, as soon as their HP regenerated enough that they stopped fleeing. I do not believe it was possible in classic EQ for a mob to flee from low HP, flee far enough away that they "unleash" (lose agro), and then start healing up (to full) without returning to their spawn point.

However, exactly that happened to me. I was on the south wall of Kithicor, about -900, 4000, and I beat C`Habrel Sharlok (http://wiki.project1999.com/C%60Habrel_Shralok) down to the point of fleeing. He then wandered off into the forest somewhere ... and promptly forgot all about me and healed up, without returning to his spawn point. Much later he finally returned to his spawn point ... but again, I don't recall any scenario like this happening on live.

I think the fix is just to limit mobs so they don't wander outside their "unleash" range. And if this is set a per zone/mob basis, Kithicor Sharloks need correcting (or at least C`Habrel does).

[Sunderfury]

Similarly reported issue already (with evidence included) on flee mechanics, merging thread.

[Ravager]

Something made me remember this today. I definitely remember using this mechanic to keep mobs from aggroing other mobs back in classic when I was soloing. Wish I had some evidence of it.

[Izmael]

Yeah it was a thing.
Do we need to make P99 easier is another question.