Returning - absolutely torn. Mage or necro?

[brokenpromise]

I will be mostly a filthy casual and soloing.

I love the mage class but I also love the necro. Eventually i would like to perhaps acquire my epic.

How far behind is the mage in terms of soloing than the necro

[shwally]

Depends on what you want to do. Chain cast pets or dot stuff up and fear it. You have a lot more versatility with a Necro to solo higher end mobs. With a mage you just have to get really good and chaining pets. I have leveled 3 Necros to 54+ on this server, so I am kind of partial to them. Play what you find the most fun.

[Bummey]

Eventually i would like to perhaps acquire my epic.


necro.

You will never, ever, ever, ever get a magician epic on this server.

[Swish2]

If you like grouping, go mage.

Necros do have lots of utility but most get lazy and don't make the most use of what's in front of them.

[Tethler]

necro

[Pyrion]

Necro is way more versatile, but mage game play (at least until pet chaining) is more relaxed. It's so relaxed that you just die when things go wrong since you do not have a good save skill. Gate is possible of course, but usually will be too slow... or you will have to cast it pretty early.

Groups seem to prefer mage because of higher DPS in group encounters. Necro dots are really more for soloing since mobs die too fast in a group.

[wagorf]

necro is more versatile, u get more options and utilities

mage is straight forward, and may get a bit repetitive long run

[Yoink1986]

Mage. Gnome Mage. I got my epic on p99 so it’s doable.

[Nycon43]

Necro if you want your epic(though necro epic isn't exactly easy). Also just a way more versatile class, mage not having any real form of CC kinda blows when things go wrong.

[Jauna]

I cant go back to my mage after necro charming

[Jauna]

And I cant go back to my necro after chanter charming

[brokenpromise]

I get the feeling you guys might like necro. I honestly might just roll both and play both until I ultimately decide.

Couple questions remain

Is the mage epic really that impossible ? What makes it such an Olympic feat? I got a few epics on live..

...during planes of power..

Fine, what ever, I know that doesn't count.

I want to do some landmark(lol)quests like jboots and other various quests. What level could you feasible acquire things like jboots?

How far behind is mage than necro? I have read several times the meta for mage is chaining combined with chaining and probably more chaining.

Is mage really that far behind necro in terms of soloing?

[Bummey]

Is the mage epic really that impossible ? What makes it such an Olympic feat? I got a few epics on live..


It only drops from Magi P'tasa which is a relatively rare spawn compared to the other minis. And since the nerf they only spawn every 3 days, probably with a variance up to 12 hours. So that's any time (up to) 24 hours before or after that 3 day mark that Magi can spawn, and only if the spawn points are kept clear. For a long time Aftermath's RMT farmer kept that place locked down and would ruthlessly train anyone who dared to put his profits at risk. He's since been banned, but it's still a rare spawn. There was a time we would go up at least once a week for, like, a year, and only saw Magi twice. Never dropped the staff. Sirfloppin's trains dropped us countless times.

There's a reason it's the rarest epic on the server*. And not only because of Aftermath's profiteering and raid destroying trains.

*maybe second to wizard because lol who plays wizards



Necro epic was rare because Slime Blood was expensive and, honestly, it's a vanity item (that my necro loves, don't get me wrong) more than anything else. Slime Blood is "cheap" now at 120 or less.


I want to do some landmark(lol)quests like jboots and other various quests. What level could you feasible acquire things like jboots?


Most people resort to buying an MQ for jboots.

The Ancient Cyclops has a chance to spawn at 9pm game time every night in South Ro. There's a druid port ring in the zone. Guess what happens at 8pm every game day? There are a few notorious farmers that keep that pretty locked down, hi druins, but you can always give it a shot.

There's also the ocean of tears camp. You'll get it eventually if you spend time there, I suppose.

[brokenpromise]

It only drops from Magi P'tasa which is a relatively rare spawn compared to the other minis. And since the nerf they only spawn every 3 days, probably with a variance up to 12 hours. So that's any time (up to) 24 hours before or after that 3 day mark that Magi can spawn, and only if the spawn points are kept clear. For a long time Aftermath's RMT farmer kept that place locked down and would ruthlessly train anyone who dared to put his profits at risk. He's since been banned, but it's still a rare spawn. There was a time we would go up at least once a week for, like, a year, and only saw Magi twice. Never dropped the staff. Sirfloppin's trains dropped us countless times.

There's a reason it's the rarest epic on the server*. And not only because of Aftermath's profiteering and raid destroying trains.

*maybe second to wizard because lol who plays wizards



Necro epic was rare because Slime Blood was expensive and, honestly, it's a vanity item (that my necro loves, don't get me wrong) more than anything else. Slime Blood is "cheap" now at 120 or less.




Most people resort to buying an MQ for jboots.

The Ancient Cyclops has a chance to spawn at 9pm game time every night in South Ro. There's a druid port ring in the zone. Guess what happens at 8pm every game day? There are a few notorious farmers that keep that pretty locked down, hi druins, but you can always give it a shot.

There's also the ocean of tears camp. You'll get it eventually if you spend time there, I suppose.


Oh...

well that's deeply disturbing and rather depressing. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for clearing that up. I've read the guide and already knew there would be lots of camping but was unaware of the apparently single bottleneck.

Once s week for a year. Bro that literally made my blood run cold. I want to still roll a mage but knowing the epic isn't feasible is a bit of a bummer

[Qtip]

Oh...

well that's deeply disturbing and rather depressing. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for clearing that up. I've read the guide and already knew there would be lots of camping but was unaware of the apparently single bottleneck.

Once s week for a year. Bro that literally made my blood run cold. I want to still roll a mage but knowing the epic isn't feasible is a bit of a bummer

Mage is just a boring class. From lvl 4 to 60 its the same thing. Just resummon pet after pet.

Necro has so many tricks between twitching mana, back up healing, fd pulling, charming and so on.

[Foxplay]

Either join a guild that does hateplane alot or AM and make friends

Or prepare to farm plat for like a year or more at 60 for your epic

[Troxx]

Necro brings more total power and versatility to the game. Interesting solo opportunities.

Mage brings more raw damage (pet sustained dps much higher) output to the table (unless the necro is charming effectively) along with class defining call of the hero. Since mages lack utility, they’re generally free to translate nearly all their mana into killing power in the form of nukes which (while less efficient than dots) apply their boom instantly and don’t result in waste. Mage solo, though effective, is boring. I prefer to group.

Both can feed mana to others.

I’ve got both at 58.

Necro is the stronger class by far when you consider the total package. In a group that just needs dps and has all other bases flawlessly covered, the mage would be a more ideal 5th/6th wheel for dps.

[Scoojitsu]

While mage epic seems to be really powerful I find it sad that you don't get to choose between different pets anymore. Once you get the epic you will always use just that. For me one of the defining aspects of the mage class is picking the right pet for the job at hand.
In light of that you could almost say it's a good thing that the epic is hard to acquire. *shrug*

[Phenyo]

Necro has an actual toolkit

[Raev]

Mage is a favorite of boxers everywhere because it requires so few actions. You can make 1 hotkey (/stand, /assist tank, /pet attack, /cast nuke, /book) and hit literally 1 button per fight while playing at 90% of maximum efficiency. Or get a Burnt Wood Staff and chain that every 20s. You will however be top dps unless there is a charmed pet or a primal rogue in the group. The magician epic pet here is the Luclin version and will probably be nerfed back to earth, and in any case it doesn't really stack up with Velious geared melee.

Necro is much more interesting theoretically. A necromancer is basically 1/3 enchanter, 1/3 monk, and 1/3 magician, which makes them quite possibly the most flexible class in the game. The problem is that none of their abilities really work in groups. Charm is great, but Necros don't really have the tools to recharm like an Enchanter (tash, AE stun, AE mez, Bedlam). Their lure dots are great but take 2 minutes, so they are only efficient solo or perhaps duo with a shaman. The heal is nice but it's not so easy to dispel any more. And Necros can FD split, but every group will contain 3 iksar monks so you won't have the opportunity to do that much. Velious is probably the worst expansion for Necros; in Luclin they got Mind Wrack, Funeral Pyre of Kelador, and dot stacking which really powers them up.

Really the only good cloth class in Velious is the Enchanter.

[Yoink1986]

Don’t listen to the naysayers go Mage!

[Haghar]

The problem is that none of their abilities really work in groups.

This is a bit of an overstatement. Sure, most of their abilities aren't designed for groups but that doesn't make them not work, just less efficient.

[Bummey]

Snare, mez, heals, burst and sustained dps don't work in groups?


Necro dots suck in groups. Long ones rarely last a quarter of their duration, and fast ones draw too much aggro. Everything else they can do owns. Necros are incredible group members but most players never play them well enough to utilize all their abilities.

That said, in boring, stable exp grinds where you've got everything under control and it's routine pull kill pull kill, there's much less to do as a necro. Necros particularly excel when things start going sideways.

[brokenpromise]

Don’t listen to the naysayers go Mage!

I really really like the mage class. It reminds me of my sorcerer builds in d&d and baldur's gate. I feel like this thread has convinced me to roll necro, tho.

Honestly what can necros solo that a mage cannot at the same level? Serious but probably foolish question.

I realize the way they are played you couldn't take a mage to somewhere like kaesora like you could a necro.

Even with focus items the mage is still gimped in comparison?

[Yoink1986]

U can definitely take Mage to kaesora but necro can solo in HS easier than mage but lot Mage can do with chain casting/ root nets/ worth pots/ reaper/ etc.

[brokenpromise]

U can definitely take Mage to kaesora but necro can solo in HS easier than mage but lot Mage can do with chain casting/ root nets/ worth pots/ reaper/ etc.


So I take it you have a mage? How do they stack up compared to a necro of the same level? I will mostly be solo. I want to farm nameds and get all the milestone gear and quests

[Nycon43]

So I take it you have a mage? How do they stack up compared to a necro of the same level? I will mostly be solo. I want to farm nameds and get all the milestone gear and quests

Sounds like you really just want to play mage. We can tell you necro is better for this stuff all day but if you aren't going to be happy with a necro you will not have fun. Just play what you want man.

[Triiz]

U can definitely take Mage to kaesora but necro can solo in HS easier than mage but lot Mage can do with chain casting/ root nets/ worth pots/ reaper/ etc.

Not a very good defense of mages solo capabilities imo. Any class can solo with enough clickies, especially instant CC and instant heals.

[brokenpromise]

Sounds like you really just want to play mage. We can tell you necro is better for this stuff all day but if you aren't going to be happy with a necro you will not have fun. Just play what you want man.

I've been in denial so I rolled both lol. I like necro a lot but I'm very much partial to fire per and nuking. I'm sure I'll ultimately end up with necro just having a hard time shelving my mage. Yesterday I logged into my level 4 mage and said out loud "I never gave up on you kid". Clearly I'm not taking the communities verdict well

[Haghar]

Just find some undead and your necro turns into a mage.

[Vigilance]

Man, I can sympathize. I started a Necro but a part of me keeps screaming Mage too. I dunno why. There's something about having a really strong pet that appeals. But it also seems like the Mage strategy is to just summon, let it solo a mob, and reclaim when it's low, and Idk how fun that will be for 60 levels of solo.

A Necro on the other hand can root rot, fear kite, charm, or nuke, and it can get to harder to reach places more easily thanks to FD.

I wish my stupid lizard brain could just make a decision.

[Yoink1986]

Best way to play Mage is not worrying bout that max so bullshit. Play to have fun. Duo/ trio it up. Find other pet classes. Find a sham and just kill. I did this and expd fast and still play my Mage.

[Raev]

Snare, mez, heals, burst and sustained dps don't work in groups?

The problem is that the Necro is mediocre at everything on that list.

Snare: unnecessary most of the time and Darkness is high mana
Mez: Single 24s mez with 5s cooldown that is somehow resisted much more than an enchanter or bard
Heals: very low throughput and mediocre efficiency. I couldn't get dispel to consistently hit slot 1.
Burst damage: irrelevant for XP groups in this era, and necros aren't great at it anyway compared to Magicians, melee with discs, or charming enchanters
Sustained damage: bottom DPS without charm, and Necros aren't great at charming without tash, PBAE stun, and more than one mez.


I have a L49 necro that I have played almost exclusively on the Dead side of Guk where he has full use of his abilities. He's solid solo, and it's great to FD out of bad situations rather than having to use the WC cap. But in practically every group scenario I've found him inferior to my enchanter, my monk, or both. If I ever get him a VP tap stick that should help some, but there is a reason Necros got so much in Luclin.

There's something about having a really strong pet that appeals.
Enchanters get the strongest pets, you know.

[Vigilance]

Enchanters get the strongest pets, you know.

True, I've just played one before. I know they're by far the strongest clothie, but I'd rather do Mage or Necro.

[Haghar]

The problem is that the Necro is mediocre at everything on that list.

You're missing the point. No one is arguing against what you just said. What Jimjam first said, however, was that they were useless. Useless is farrr from mediocre.

[Troxx]

-125/tick heal over time isn’t mediocre. I stopped trying to dispel and just tap over time heal it back (not hard or really that mana taxing)
-the snare is perfectly functional, i generally use 2nd lowest
-ghetto mez is not meant to replace full mez, it’s a side-bar perk that helps with cc along with 3 minute root. I’ve never had a problem with resists
-sustained dps low? Bottom??? Rofl, no. Properly buffed Rog pet alone puts out comparable dps to a mid-50s monk and is better by itself than most rangers/warriors. When not charming that pet is always there and always icing on the cake.
-burst burn dps unless you can use undead nuke is meh but with lich, nuke over time potential is actually higher than mage Druid or wizard

Necro played properly is a class with medium high tier sustained dps and the ability to cc root or mez in a pinch. Additionally — trivially easy ability to permanently sustain 125/tick heal and just tap back health with a fast-ish tap over time.

Necro dps (pet + nukes/taps) is actually quite good.

[Troxx]

Regarding nuke potential - compare high level mage vs high level necro

Mage:
-best conjuration nuke is 3.4 dmg per mana if conj spec (825 dmg)
-20 mana/tick medding
-up to 49-51 mana/tick medding with ALL buffs (not likely gonna happen often)
-benefits from c2 (necro doesn’t) if present

Assume you manage to hit all med ticks to keep math simple. Every lost med tick favors the necro.

Med = 200 mana/min = 680 damage/min (
C2 = 310 mana/min = 1054 dmg/min
Add POTG = 370 mana/min = 1258 dmg/min
Add bard = 490 mana/min = 1666 dmg/min


Necro:
-non-undead nuke (evoc) if alteration spec is 2.4 dmg per mana
-undead nuke if alteration spec 2.9 dmg per mana
-20 med a tick
- +20 mana/tick 49 lich vs +34/tick demi lich
-doesn’t benefit c2
- +2 mana tick on rune

Lich vs standard mob (vs undead):

Med + self buffs = 420 mana/min = 1008 (1218) dmg/min
Add POTG = 480mana/min = 1152 (1392) dmg/min
Add bard = 600 mana/min = 1446 (1740) dmg/min

Demi lich vs standard mob (vs undead)

Med + self buffs = 560 mana/min = 1344 (1624) dmg/min
Add POTG = 620 mana/min = 1488 (1798) dmg/min
Add bard = 740 mana/min = 1776 (2146) dmg/min

For mage this works out to a dps range of 11.3-26.76 dps averaged over time in a chain pulling group with no down time. Higher functional dps if not literally always killing.

For necro this works out to a dps range of 16.8-29.6 (20.3-35.8) dps averaged over time in a chain pulling group with no down time. Higher functional dps if not literally always killing.

_._._._._._._

Discussion:

This is simply a comparison of DD damage potential. It does not address the power discrepancy between pets (mage obviously better). Necro rogue pet in seb tends to hover in the 45-55 sustained dps range. 57 earth pet (better dmg than 54 water) hovers in the 60-70 sustained dps range. Mage also have potent DS which is hugely efficient dmg/mana. Necro? Depending on tank aggro and length of fight necro dots are a lot more efficient and there are several short dots that still work out better on fights in seb and in some groups where mobs die slow enough to make them worthwhile.

So yeah - even without charm necro pet + nukes are nowhere near bottom dps. My pet alone in my last group was putting out roughly the same dps as the 58 epic/tstaff monk with shaman buffs and 86% buffed haste who was pulling for us. I added about another 15-20 dps on top of that between tap dots and nukes vs non undead - but I was also busy healing and managing cc or I could have pumped out more.

Necros have a strong toolkit.

Fun class.

[Ostepop]

Not sure if you aim to raid at some point. If I remember correctly, raiding as a mage in this era consists of making mana rods, playing taxi with CotH, and being on dragon faction for faster ntov and Yelinak. A guild only ever needs one mage online.
Also, pet control is a horror in AE heavy raids without /pet hold. Not sure what rules guilds here have on pets in raids.

Writing this made me seriously nostalgic about playing my mage. Haha!

[Raev]

My pet alone in my last group was putting out roughly the same dps as the 58 epic/tstaff monk

It sounds like you are basing your conclusions on a mid 50s xp group. Necros aren't very gear dependent, so they work pretty well there. I haven't leveled a P99 toon in quite some time, so I'm thinking about something like the myconid spore king or Halls of Testing with L60 characters. And Necro just doesn't keep up there.

Even in Kunark I was usually hitting 70 dps on my Monk at the spore king, with capped strength and haste being the main difference. In Velious that's up to maybe 95, and will be pushing 110 if the 2HB upgrades and triple attack ever go in.

Meanwhile the Necro is getting 50% resists on anything not a lifetap or lure dot and the skeleton is struggling with the higher AC. If you happen to be rolling PAL/SHM/NEC or similar then you have time for your lure dots to tick and you might hit the damage of a Kunark monk. In a full group moving quickly you are stuck with Touch of Night at under 2:1 (at least you have the extra HP to keep shadowbond up) and are probably in the 60ish dps range, which is about comparable to a Kunark Ranger or Warrior and well behind the Velious versions.

You are of course welcome to post some parse from your necro in a higher level area proving me wrong.

[Troxx]

Have you played a high level necro at spore king? I have. Next time I’m there I’ll fetch parses. Those mobs live long enough that dots (several of which have big negative resist mods on them) are viable — unless you’ve got velious raid geared melee slumming in a kunark dungeon they are woefully overgeared for or have a haste quadding enchanter pet. 70+ combined dps would not be a challenge there.

The pets struggle less with higher ac than I think you appreciate - especially if there’s a shaman or Druid there to cast a str buff.

PS: trying to use your velious raid geared monk as some baseline/metric to determine who is “bottom sustained dps” is amusing. The raid scene is a different monster altogether. As you’ve already pointed out, casters do not scale well with endgame gear - but that’s not really relevant for 99.9% of the game.

[Vigilance]

Been farting around on a Necro and having fun with it. Doing the Qeynos area which I haven't done before. Gnoll fangs are ridiculous xp. Already up to level 9.

I made a Human/Bertoxx because why not. Don't care about optimization and wanted to do something different.

I was a little concerned doing the Gnoll turn in might trash my faction with my Guild but even though I've turned in probably 30-40 they still are Amiable. I feel like it would take a ton to get them aggro at me. I'll probably be out of that area long before then.

I will say it's kinda mana intensive to out dps the pet sometimes at low levels. Sometimes I can't tell if it's better to just be constantly fighting with the pet and out dps it when I actually have mana and just eat the xp loss, or whether I should be medding up and taking a few fights here and there when I have the mana to out dps the pet. The advantage to the former is the pet mostly wrecks blue cons right now so I can have it constantly fighting as long as there's spawns. And I can still get full xp on some of them when I have the mana to out dps it. I also almost feel like quantity is preferred if I'm in a quest drop area like Blackburrow because the more kills the more fangs. Xp is almost secondary to how many fangs I can get.

Not sure what the next solo spot will be though. I'd think BB will good til around 12ish. I don't want to go over to unrest etc, prefer to stay out here and try this area because I've never leveled here before. Also I prefer to solo since I don't play a ton. I'd guess the Karanas are the next spot but I'll have to figure out exactly where and what to fight. I do enjoy doing quest turn ins, so if I could find an area to kill stuff and get quest turn ins that'd be cool.

[Vigilance]

The Gnoll Fang quest only negatively affects Corrupt Guards and Rogue Guild faction, I believe. So you should be fine. I was fine on my Bertox SK.

You could do the Gnoll Fangs up to 14/15ish, really. That's what I usually do. By then you get burned out anyway. I've even heard of people going until their early 20s.

At around 14 or 15, I do Bandit Sash quest in West Karana.

I think this quest trashes Bloodsabers faction though, so you may want to steer clear of it.

Also, when you're 16 you get Hungry Earth, so you can root rot undead. I usually root rot and then send the pet in at around 49% HP. That's one way to control pet dps

Hm yeah probably want to avoid sashes then. What level are lightstones? I feel like that's one people do a lot that I've never done.

And root rotting undead sounds like a plan for sure. I've tried fear kiting a little bit when I'm outdoors right now, but it's obscenely mana intensive. Casting fear and two dots is practically half my mana pool, and Engulfing Darkness gets resisted all the time too.

[Raev]

Have you played a high level necro at spore king? I have. Next time I’m there I’ll fetch parses. Those mobs live long enough that dots (several of which have big negative resist mods on them) are viable — unless you’ve got velious raid geared melee slumming in a kunark dungeon they are woefully overgeared for or have a haste quadding enchanter pet. 70+ combined dps would not be a challenge there.

So we agree. A trio (or a very bad full group) gives necros time to use the lure dots and hit 70 dps, which is Kunark monk level. In a solid full group, it's touch of night and 60 dps.

trying to use your velious raid geared monk as some baseline/metric to determine who is “bottom sustained dps” is amusing and not really relevant for 99.9% of the game.

Judging by your signature, you spend most of your EQ time leveling in Kunark dungeons with Coldain level gear. That's of course your choice, but personally I have always preferred to spend my time doing the more available high level content with low numbers. I'm not going to leave my Monk AFK in the EC tunnel because of your sense of propriety. Also, it really isn't that hard to farm up the money to buy a ST key and 2H primal from Aftermath (perhaps they will be looking to build more guild funds with Bellringer in town). Throw in a pair of Wu's Fists of Mastery and the Monk is leaving the Necro in the dust.

[Troxx]

So we agree. A trio (or a very bad full group) gives necros time to use the lure dots and hit 70 dps, which is Kunark monk level. In a solid full group, it's touch of night and 60 dps.

Oh jesus christ. Do I have to spell it out for you?? In high level areas with summoned pet is ~50dps (more with shaman/druid str ... and a bit more with mage haste mask summon). A necro focused on nothing but dps and using the *worst* damage/mana ratio nukes (taps ie touch of night at 2 dmg per mana with alteration spec) at level 60 with NO external mana regen buffs (with demi lich 560 mana/min -- 18.66dps) is 68.67 dps. That is a worst case scenario {doesn't exist} where a necro can do nothing but lifetap with DD lifetaps and fall back on pet dps. This is a level 60 necro with *NOT* kunark BIS raid gear (much less velious raid gear), no POTG, no bard ... and literally doing nothing but casting level 59 touch of night as mana permits. This also assumes there is (literally) zero down time where you can get an extra mana tick or 2. It also assumes that there is no feasible opportunity to use a higher dmg/mana ratio nuke/dot/whatever ... just tap. Even the, the necro (casting only those shitty taps) has ample ability to heal any target for 125/tick, which no other raw dps class can do.

This scenario does not exist, and your inexperience playing this class is showing badly (very badly) right now. Necros are one of those hidden gems.

Give that necro the ability to use dots (or the not worst dmg/mana spell line) ... and you start to see the real picture.

Judging by your signature, you spend most of your EQ time leveling in Kunark dungeons with Coldain level gear.

I've been overseas deployed with the US military for 6 years. Choice? Sure (kinda), but I've got a decade of raiding bleeding edge EQ content under my belt prior to that from Velious through 2011. As far as p99 goes, I won't sacrifice any amount of my real life QOL (quality of life) to batphone anything at 3am to farm crusty content on an emulated server. Does that make logic any less ... logical? It's math man.

That's of course your choice, but personally I have always preferred to spend my time doing the more available high level content with low numbers.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Raev

Aftermath? Doing high level content with low numbers?

/chortle

I'm not going to leave my Monk AFK in the EC tunnel because of your sense of propriety.

Nobody asked you to. You're just wrong on this topic.

Throw in a pair of Wu's Fists of Mastery and the Monk is leaving the Necro in the dust.

I've grouped with a high level monk with 2x Wu's Fists of Mastery. Necro with pet + nukes/taps/dots still beat their total damage done ... oh and I was healing 125/tick and CC'ing while doing all of the above.

Sorry man, but you're just flat_fucking_wrong.

But let's go back to this:

Even in Kunark I was usually hitting 70 dps on my Monk at the spore king, with capped strength and haste being the main difference. In Velious that's up to maybe 95, and will be pushing 110 if the 2HB upgrades and triple attack ever go in.

My 58 mage in the highest areas of Seb etc averages about 120dps under realistic conditions (ie there is not always a mob in camp **all the time** not allowing for any between mob meditating). This doesn't factor in the DS on the tank or the rods I drop on clerics, just a max summoned 57 earth pet + my own nukes. I imagine level 60 water pet + nukes will be quite a lot better in this regards.

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

Your velious raid geared (Abashi Rod) monk, parses 26% less now and will parse 10% lower after chardok patch on old kunark group content. If you can manage to chain pull for that seb king group where there is literally no down time, you might keep up with my mage. If there is competent charming chanter, well ... then we both lose.

Does that make a velious raid geared monk not worth it? Of course not. Hell no. Point is - different classes/archetypes ... different jobs. Monks make excellent pullers, tanks, tank + puller ... especially when they are over-geared for the content. My necro can't do that. My mage can't either. My monk can. That's what makes the monk worthwhile.

Necro are (whether you will admit it or not) a medium high sustained dps class that brings CC, heals, rezzes (emergency) and twitches to the table. Raid geared necros compared to raid geared melee fall behind, but that's a small (really small) portion of the EQ that P99 offers us.

I've leveled (without PL) a bunch of classes to 58+. I parse everything along the way. My mage and my necro put out a LOT more damage than my 59 epic/fungi/tstaff monk ... but they don't replace the job my monk can do.

[Troxx]

PS: raid fights are a different discussion. Pets depending on the fight cause more problems and might not be summoned. Higher level mobs = more resists. In these scenarios both mages and necros have different (but still important) jobs.

But that isn’t the input the OP was asking for.

[Raev]

What a confused and angry rant.

I am not and was not criticizing your life choices. I am saying that if you choose to focus on platinum rather than experience, it's not that hard to buy a few lower tier raid items, thus making the lack of good Velious caster gear relevant.

Everything you write, like magicians doing 120 dps or necros doing lots of CC, makes perfect sense if you spend your time in mid 50s PUGs with 50% downtime. None of it makes any sense in good groups, say 20% or less downtime, at higher level areas like the spore king, Siren's Grotto, juggs, HoT, etc.

You know that gamparse works on old fights, right? So there is nothing stopping you from posting a parse and proving me wrong.

[Bummey]

What the fuck happened in this thread?

[Pint]

120 sustained dps from a 58 mage on juggs and shrooms? i doubt it

[Para99]

My 58 mage in the highest areas of Seb etc averages about 120dps under realistic conditions (ie there is not always a mob in camp **all the time** not allowing for any between mob meditating).

I'm not saying this isn't true because I've never played a mage and I don't hang out with many mages, but is this with the mage chain casting nukes the entire fight? In my experience, an average level 50 charmed Kunark warrior mob with VOG will average around 120 DPS against say a 53 mob.

If the wiki is correct the 57 earth pet hits for max 70 which is exactly half of a level 50 Kunark mob and a max level of 48 so it would land less hits, I assume most of the DPS is nukes?

[Phenyo]

120 sustained dps from a 58 mage on juggs and shrooms? i doubt it

[Troxx]

I am saying that if you choose to focus on platinum rather than experience, it's not that hard to buy a few lower tier raid items, thus making the lack of good Velious caster gear relevant.

This line of discussion started with this:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2741607&postcount=35

You advised the OP that necros are sustained “bottom dps” without charm. That simply is not the case. Or should we consider them bottom dps because every melee should be expected to farm large sums of platinum and buy a ST key and a primal weapon from Aftermath?

Everything you write, like magicians doing 120 dps or necros doing lots of CC, makes perfect sense if you spend your time in mid 50s PUGs with 50% downtime. None of it makes any sense in good groups, say 20% or less downtime, at higher level areas like the spore king, Siren's Grotto, juggs, HoT, etc.

Have you forgotten your audience? The very first line of the very first post by the OP.

I will be mostly a filthy casual

Performance in a mid 50’s PUG is a lot more relevant to the OP then how you stack up to a velious raid geared monk with Vulak weapon while farming HoT with a single group.

120 sustained dps from a 58 mage on juggs and shrooms? i doubt it

You’re right, I misspoke. My mage hasn’t been beyond Crypt/Emp levels in seb. When you think about it that camp in particular isn’t the best example as depending on the cadence of the group you can easily end up with staggered spawns and unexpectedly high amounts of down time.

Higher level frogs/shrooms and juggs - 120 ain’t gonna happen.

[Raev]

Actually the OP stated he mostly planned to solo, so I suppose none of this is that relevant to him. Fuck off OP.

It's silly to write off the endgame performance of a class. I guess you get your guys to 60 and then are mostly finished with them? Nothing wrong with that, but most people are going to want at least basics like their epic and a set of HOT gear, or will want to farm up some platinum for a twink. And the endgame performance of Necromancers just isn't great in my experience.

But hey, you could always post some parses and prove us wrong!

[Troxx]

It's silly to write off the endgame performance of a class.

Look man, I'm not trying to write off the end-game performance of a class. Bleeding edge single group content (Ie HoT single grouped, SG, Juggs) isn't exactly a huge part of the game. It's the end of the road for a lot of folks and many who don't commit to hardcore raiding aren't going to be spending a significant portion of their time farming Juggs, HoT with a single group, or Sirens Grotto. Many of those who do the latter (HoT/SG) are sporting raid gear. As you've already mentioned, raid gear shifts the balance in a very significant way towards melee, and those really high end areas sport mobs with nasty high resistances, which further favors any melee over every caster with the exception of a class that can charm. Nobody is denying any of that.

For most players and for most of the time, focusing in exclusively on this content isn't really relevant to the broader discussion. On that note, disparaging "mid 50's PuGs" is pretty silly as every toon will spend most of their time in at this level of play. Until players hit that end of the line group content, pet Int classes do shockingly well across the board for raw damage output.


I guess you get your guys to 60 and then are mostly finished with them? Nothing wrong with that, but most people are going to want at least basics like their epic and a set of HOT gear, or will want to farm up some platinum for a twink.

Like I said, I've been overseas for 6 years (will be back in the states in a few months). Euro and Asian time zones don't really allow for traditional raid progression as guildmates are generally asleep or at work when I have time to play. I have a professional career and a family, so I can't/won't engage in p99's preferred style of raiding which involves calls going out at odd times to mobilize. I carve out some me time to play and if something doesn't happen during that narrow window, I'm not available to participate.

I enjoy playing my 60s, but sitting around xp capped lfg for 1-3 hours before finding something productive to do (I don't need experience) isn't exactly fun - so alts enter the equation. I'll scout around for a bit and if I don't get any bites, I swap over to a character I can make progress with.

So yes, unfortunately I get to 60, get to coldainish level of content gear, and then that character has a tendency to start collecting dust.

And the endgame performance of Necromancers just isn't great in my experience.

From a raw dps standpoint, at that level of play damage potential comparatively does take a nose dive. 70-80 dps is nothing to sneeze at, but it's not going to keep up with raid geared melee. If you factor in other abilities the necromancer brings to the table, that performance is still pretty great.

But hey, you could always post some parses and prove us wrong!

My work day is just starting, I'll sift through logs when I get home. Want necro, mage, or both? Necro logs in particular will be more challenging to find accurate representations for dps as when I'm in a group I rarely get to focus exclusively on dps. Time spent rooting, healing, and on demand twitches group mates want all subtract time and mana from the equation. It's a rare thing to be in a group where my only job is dishing out damage, hence why I initially said I'd get new ones where I can focus on nothing but damage.

What is pretty consistent is the expected damage from the pet. In crappy/low places like KC the 53 rog pet is close to 60 sustained dps. In places like seb it's in the 50 range for standard areas and 40-45 on the very high level mobs with a tank who knows how to position. From there, it's not hard to calculate sustained dps potential with absolutely zero down time (it's just math). Every extra med tick or bit of down time shifts the balance more in favor of the caster.

[brokenpromise]

Actually the OP stated he mostly planned to solo, so I suppose none of this is that relevant to him. Fuck off OP.

It's silly to write off the endgame performance of a class. I guess you get your guys to 60 and then are mostly finished with them? Nothing wrong with that, but most people are going to want at least basics like their epic and a set of HOT gear, or will want to farm up some platinum for a twink. And the endgame performance of Necromancers just isn't great in my experience.

But hey, you could always post some parses and prove us wrong!

/chortle I'm sorry for all of this

[kjs86z]

How much does a ST key cost?

[Para99]

How much does a ST key cost?

Not sure if this is the standard, but..
Zlandicar's Talisman (Sleeper's Tomb Key) 300k includes a 2h primal loot right
Link (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283573)

[Raev]

Want necro, mage, or both?

I'd be curious to see both, really, but in a tougher area since that's what I spent most of my time doing. The crypt is actually a pretty low level area; only the named are high level.

[Troxx]

I'd be curious to see both, really, but in a tougher area since that's what I spent most of my time doing. The crypt is actually a pretty low level area; only the named are high level.

My necromancer has been level 58 for over a year and I've got a 210MB log file. I'll dig deeper over the next few days but this was a pickup group on the bonus xp (4th July holiday extended weekend) that crawled from ABC to the bridge near NG back and forth. Not exactly high end seb, but still a higher kunark dungeon.

Group was:

-Monk:
Rukilz (pretty sure 57, though possibly 58) with Tstaff, epic, fungi, shaman 50% haste and I think 36% worn haste handling pulls/tanking

-Shaman
Donhoolio (57-58) canni-ing his ass off, slowing, buffing, and casting heals sporadically (not that often)

-Mage: (owner of Zarn an initially lowest summon level 57 earth pet and later Xonann a max summon 57 earth pet after I encouraged him to bail on the old pet). As you can see from his pet clocked in dps vs "sdps" he was generally slow to actually send pet in accounting for his pets doing less total damage despite doing more functional uptime dps than mine while in combat. His max summon pet should have parsed higher, but I assume that given his slow on the draw sending pet in that he did not actively refresh pet haste and his pet thus spent a sizable portion of the time without burnout. I proactively refresh haste when my count down timer hits 60 seconds. Some pet owners don't bother to do this, but every second your pet isn't hasted your pet is hitting 65% less frequently. I also don't know if he bothered to ask the shaman to str buff his pet either. I can't parse mage nukes or the impact of the DS.

-Necro: Me, 58. We had no mez, so I handled the cc with roots/ST. This took up more than a little bit of my time. Pet Kibobtik 53 rogue summon had the mob's ass maybe 60-70% of the time, so lots of lost backstabs. I was busy enough with CC (1-3 in camp at any given point in time) that it occupied a lot of my attention. No dots were used other than lifetap dot. At 58, most functional lifetap has a poor ratio and only hits for 330. Between that and casting tap dot at the start of fights as needed, that's where all my damage came from. Most of my time was spent handling CC and throwing heals around like crazy.


Combined: ** SEB crawl ABC to NG Bridge and Back on 7/7/2018 in 3230sec

Total
--- DMG: 449547 (100%) @ 139 dps (139 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 46429 @15dps

Kibobtik
--- DMG: 133583 (29.72%) @ 42 dps (41 sdps)

Rukilz
--- DMG: 126371 (28.11%) @ 39 dps (39 sdps)

Xonann
--- DMG: 87040 (19.36%) @ 47 dps (27 sdps)

Zarn
--- DMG: 53337 (11.86%) @ 41 dps (17 sdps)

Daegun
--- DMG: 47232 (10.51%) @ 15 dps (15 sdps)

Donhoolio
--- DMG: 684 (0.15%) @ 0 dps (0 sdps)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the healing covered while doing this?

--- DMG to PC: 46429 @15dps

Total healing delivered from myself?

Donhoolio received 20242
Rukilz received 13125
Pets combined received: 1125
Me: A lot. I was healing back the health I was tossing around with the taps and tap dots.

Regen:

Group stuck it out 84 minutes, so the monk (iksar with fungi and regrowth is 40 passive regen a tick) regenerated somewhere less than 33600 hp (he spent some but not most of the time full health).

Between the monk's passive regen and the heals I tossed him (math the above bolded/italicized/underlined numbers), the shaman didn't have to heal much at all and was free to canni near-continuously while I healed him as well.

Discussion:

Not super high level seb, and my attention was split. Gamparse can be buggy when compiling fights and there are moments I was out of melee parse range. This accounts for why all melee (pets included) have lower parse numbers than you'd expect for the gear, level, class, and content. If I can parse a pet, though, I can parse a player. Necro 53 pet at max summon with a mage haste mask, necro haste buff, and shaman str buff (this is more important than many realize) still managed to beat out the Tstaff epic monk (granted I can't parse his procs).

For all the flaws in parsing, you at least get an idea of how a properly buffed pet stacks up against a higher level melee character with a pretty good weapon. Anything the caster does to lay on the heat above and beyond the pet is just icing on the cake.

I leveled my necro up after my monk was already 50s. I parse a lot and keep Gamparse in heads up display mode for active real-time overlay superimposed on window. The 49 necro pet was a bit of a shocker as it was putting out damage that was uncomfortably close to what my 50s monk was capable of. The 53 pet made playing the dps role on my epic monk frankly depressing. The pet properly buffed could go toe to toe with my monk. I later leveled up my Magician - those pets are rock solid sustained dps. The biggest shocker was in upgrading from 54 water to 57 earth. The earth pet is a few levels higher and had a max quad that went from 56 to 70. Even without backstab or the rare nuke, the 57 earth pet is an absolute beast.

Anywho, I'll scrub my logs over the coming days and get some more parses out there.

[Pint]

Bis rogues are about 120dps when they're trying

[Troxx]

Bis rogues are about 120dps when they're trying

Which is why BiS rogues are at the top of the dps charts on raids and in groups when rabid charm pets aren’t around.

[kjs86z]

Not sure if this is the standard, but..

Link (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283573)

Oh so a measly 300k?

lol

[Raev]

I'm a little surprised the Necro pet outdamaged the monk, but a) tanking cuts your dps by maybe 10% due to ripostes and bash b) most leveling monks will not cap strength, which is another 10-20% depending on his gear c) the tstaff proc is 3-4 DPS depending on dexterity d) 7% off capped haste (and no +20 ATK from VoG) e) tstaff is going to get +10 dps after the 2H buff. So maybe it isn't that surprising. Of course the skeleton probably missed some backstabs but I think it's hard to keep pets behind the mob 100% even with an attentive tank.

I guess we both play Necro in a similar and reasonably close to optimal way. The difference is that I have a 60 enchanter and I'm constantly reminded of how much better he would be. Offensively, you were bringing maybe 60 dps which is not bad at all. But a (good) enchanter would be bringing 100+ with a charmed bok, better haste on the Monk, and C2/Gift on the magician. Defensively, you were healing maybe 40 hp/tick which is also not bad. But C2/Gift on the Shaman would generate nearly that much. And the Enchanter has 4 slot dispel, slow, and real mez to take the pressure off as well. So when I'm playing support dps on my Necro I miss my enchanter and when I'm pulling, even though they are surprisingly good there, I still really miss the survivability of the Monk.

I have periodically gotten strength buffs and Primal Avatar on my charmed pets before but I've never been religious about it. It's a good find. Yet another reason Shaman are the Necro's best friend.

P.S. I don't think it's that hard to farm 300K, although it isn't exactly easy. That's 6 fungi tunics, for example, or about 100 hours at the spore king while 75% AFK doing house work. It all depends what your idea of fun is.

[brokenpromise]

I'm a little surprised the Necro pet outdamaged the monk, but a) tanking cuts your dps by maybe 10% due to ripostes and bash b) most leveling monks will not cap strength, which is another 10-20% depending on his gear c) the tstaff proc is 3-4 DPS depending on dexterity d) 7% off capped haste (and no +20 ATK from VoG) e) tstaff is going to get +10 dps after the 2H buff. So maybe it isn't that surprising. Of course the skeleton probably missed some backstabs but I think it's hard to keep pets behind the mob 100% even with an attentive tank.

I guess we both play Necro in a similar and reasonably close to optimal way. The difference is that I have a 60 enchanter and I'm constantly reminded of how much better he would be. Offensively, you were bringing maybe 60 dps which is not bad at all. But a (good) enchanter would be bringing 100+ with a charmed bok, better haste on the Monk, and C2/Gift on the magician. Defensively, you were healing maybe 40 hp/tick which is also not bad. But C2/Gift on the Shaman would generate nearly that much. And the Enchanter has 4 slot dispel, slow, and real mez to take the pressure off as well. So when I'm playing support dps on my Necro I miss my enchanter and when I'm pulling, even though they are surprisingly good there, I still really miss the survivability of the Monk.

I have periodically gotten strength buffs and Primal Avatar on my charmed pets before but I've never been religious about it. It's a good find. Yet another reason Shaman are the Necro's best friend.

P.S. I don't think it's that hard to farm 300K, although it isn't exactly easy. That's 6 fungi tunics, for example, or about 100 hours at the spore king while 75% AFK doing house work. It all depends what your idea of fun is.

My wife already makes me do all the washing up and taking out the rubbish bin. The thought of doing it to kill time waiting for respawns both terrifies me and really boils my asshole. I protest nearly every time I'm asked so the thought of doing it on my own like an automaton deeply disturbs me

[Troxx]

I have periodically gotten strength buffs and Primal Avatar on my charmed pets before but I've never been religious about it. It's a good find. Yet another reason Shaman are the Necro's best friend.

Pets, being npcs get full 1:1 benefit from both attack (direct attack and str) boosting buffs. Str + focus stack on a pet will make that pet hit for max damage the vast majority of time (only exception being velious raid mobs with high ac). It's a little trick i learned on live that works in classic too. It won't make them hit higher than their max hit but it will make them hit consistently more often and severely deflected toward their upper max hit threshold. This holds true for charm pets as well. I always ask shamans to buff pets and charm pets in group (mine or otherwise).

Interestingly, unlike player characters, they also benefit 1:1 on ac (*to include agility and how it raises your visible ac). Players have soft caps etc. Tossing an ac and agility buff on a pet makes it a stupidly strong tank vs not having.

Pets are fun. NPCs that follow NPC rules controlled by PCs.

[kjs86z]

P.S. I don't think it's that hard to farm 300K, although it isn't exactly easy. That's 6 fungi tunics, for example, or about 100 hours at the spore king while 75% AFK doing house work. It all depends what your idea of fun is.

I don't want to start an argument, but I don't think your numbers are wholly realistic on that one. I would love to see a breakdown of your math though. 27 minute respawn, what is the % chance it is King instead of PH, what is the % chance it drops a fungi, and how many people in your group all rolling (guessing 3). Of course, all that is assuming King is open and you have your group the moment you log in and start playing...which in itself is unrealistic. Add clear-ins, hiccups, recoveries, and all the rest of that normal EQ stuff....you get what I'm saying.

I'm going to throw out a guestimate that the average of "decent" (not elite / pro) cash camps to be about 2k / hour. Sure, people do better....but a lot of other people out there will do worse (for a long time I was perfectly happy making 1k / hr at NG only killing 3 bugs, breaking / calming the Krup roamer pet, and going AFK for 18 minutes in the safe spot corner).

I'm on the lower end of skill / knowledge when it comes to P99 player. The server is my first and only EQ experience. I cannot imagine amassing 300k in 100 hours doing Fungi King. I'm a mediocre enchanter at best but I'd love some more options for solo plat farming myself.

[Topgunben]

Pets, being npcs get full 1:1 benefit from both attack (direct attack and str) boosting buffs. Str + focus stack on a pet will make that pet hit for max damage the vast majority of time (only exception being velious raid mobs with high ac). It's a little trick i learned on live that works in classic too. It won't make them hit higher than their max hit but it will make them hit consistently more often and severely deflected toward their upper max hit threshold. This holds true for charm pets as well. I always ask shamans to buff pets and charm pets in group (mine or otherwise).

Interestingly, unlike player characters, they also benefit 1:1 on ac (*to include agility and how it raises your visible ac). Players have soft caps etc. Tossing an ac and agility buff on a pet makes it a stupidly strong tank vs not having.

Pets are fun. NPCs that follow NPC rules controlled by PCs.

Troxx, I learned a lot from all your posts. You seem to know the mechanics of the game better than most.

[enjchanter]

I don't want to start an argument, but I don't think your numbers are wholly realistic on that one. I would love to see a breakdown of your math though. 27 minute respawn, what is the % chance it is King instead of PH, what is the % chance it drops a fungi, and how many people in your group all rolling (guessing 3). Of course, all that is assuming King is open and you have your group the moment you log in and start playing...which in itself is unrealistic. Add clear-ins, hiccups, recoveries, and all the rest of that normal EQ stuff....you get what I'm saying.

I'm going to throw out a guestimate that the average of "decent" (not elite / pro) cash camps to be about 2k / hour. Sure, people do better....but a lot of other people out there will do worse (for a long time I was perfectly happy making 1k / hr at NG only killing 3 bugs, breaking / calming the Krup roamer pet, and going AFK for 18 minutes in the safe spot corner).

I'm on the lower end of skill / knowledge when it comes to P99 player. The server is my first and only EQ experience. I cannot imagine amassing 300k in 100 hours doing Fungi King. I'm a mediocre enchanter at best but I'd love some more options for solo plat farming myself.

If you still have your velks faction, do brood mother my man, not hard to get like 15k in a night

[Vigilance]

What's a good spot for a 12th level (human) Necro out in Qeynos?

Tried Misty a little bit. The issue with her is she's sometimes red con to me and 1 resist can spell trouble. It takes my entire mana bar to kill her even so. Also killing her hurts Qeynos guard faction which isn't a huge deal since I genocided gnolls for a while and they're amiable but I guess could be something to worry about if I did it too much.

I know some people do Bandits but mainly for the sashes no? My issue with trying them would be they lower Blood Saber faction. I'm guessing that could cause problems in a hurry for me, though I don't know how many turn-ins of that quest would be enough to trash my faction.

I'd prefer to stay out in this side of the world since I've never leveled her but trying to figure out good spots to try.

[Nycon43]

What's a good spot for a 12th level (human) Necro out in Qeynos?

Tried Misty a little bit. The issue with her is she's sometimes red con to me and 1 resist can spell trouble. It takes my entire mana bar to kill her even so. Also killing her hurts Qeynos guard faction which isn't a huge deal since I genocided gnolls for a while and they're amiable but I guess could be something to worry about if I did it too much.

I know some people do Bandits but mainly for the sashes no? My issue with trying them would be they lower Blood Saber faction. I'm guessing that could cause problems in a hurry for me, though I don't know how many turn-ins of that quest would be enough to trash my faction.

I'd prefer to stay out in this side of the world since I've never leveled her but trying to figure out good spots to try.

Could try killing wisps out in north karana and turn in the lightstones at the gypsy camp there.

[Vigilance]

Could try killing wisps out in north karana and turn in the lightstones at the gypsy camp there.

Might give that a shot. Can always go back to Misty if it doesn't work out.

I haven't wiped on her yet even with the occasional resist and I'm just about 13 so should remain an easy solo spot. A little boring perhaps, but it is steady xp/loot.

[Nycon43]

Might give that a shot. Can always go back to Misty if it doesn't work out.

I haven't wiped on her yet even with the occasional resist and I'm just about 13 so should remain an easy solo spot. A little boring perhaps, but it is steady xp/loot.

Yeah I did misty on my necro as well. Didn't remember her being red con when I fought her though, but it's been a while.

Only downside to NK wisps is you do have to watch out for the wandering griffons.

[Vigilance]

Yeah I did misty on my necro as well. Didn't remember her being red con when I fought her though, but it's been a while.

Only downside to NK wisps is you do have to watch out for the wandering griffons.

Looks like I might have to hold off on wisps. I was trying them but my pet couldn't hit them, even when I summoned the highest pet possible. Not sure when Necro pets start hitting magic things. Guessing 16 or 20? Doesn't appear possible with the level 12 pet, even if you summon a max level pet.

Guess I'll probably just tough it out on Misty til 16 and/or genocide more gnolls. As for what she conned, she conned red sometimes at level 12, and other times was yellow. Not sure what she'll con now that I'm 13.

[Raev]

The spore king PH pops every 30 minutes or so. Maybe 1/5-1/6 are kings. He drops the tunic about 2/3. So a really solid group should get a tunic every 5 hours or so. In practice usually the monk has trouble pulling or the group wipes or something. Anyway, 100 hours is then 20 tunics, which sell in the tunnel for a bit less 1M platinum. Split three ways is 300k each. On the other hand, you'll make half as much in a full 6-man group. The better you get, the more you can do with lower numbers with fewer wipes and wasted time.

Alternatively: at 2K an hour, that's 150 hours of farming time. So you can either level an alt from say 56 to 60 or farm a primal for your main. Just depends what you want to do.

[Para99]

Since this thread has kind of spiralled into a discussion about loot rights, Raev wasn't it you that bought a Shissar Focus Staff? If it was you, how much did that run?

I've thought about inquiring about one but I don't know if any of the guilds that kill Druushk would even sell one these days or if I'd have immediate buyers remorse with the 49 cap.

[Troxx]

2k an hour is quite a lot, and certainly not possible until you're already in your high 50s. I've gotten more in short spurts, but nowhere close to this average over time on any character. But, if you could match this rate and do so consistently, 2k an hour is still 150 hours of playtime. If you played 2 hours a day and always got 2k an hour (not going to happen for most folk) that's still 2.5 months dedicated to getting a single primal weapon sold by a guild who hogs a lot of content keeping the rest of the server down (so they can invest 300k in item recharges to keep hogging content for 2nd to 5th line alts).

For those with raid gear and connections with others who also have similar levels of gear, maybe 300k isn't hard to get.

I've been on this sever for years and have maybe made 300-400k total in that entire time.

[Phenyo]

2k an hour is quite a lot, and certainly not possible until you're already in your high 50s. I've gotten more in short spurts, but nowhere close to this average over time on any character. But, if you could match this rate and do so consistently, 2k an hour is still 150 hours of playtime. If you played 2 hours a day and always got 2k an hour (not going to happen for most folk) that's still 2.5 months dedicated to getting a single primal weapon sold by a guild who hogs a lot of content keeping the rest of the server down (so they can invest 300k in item recharges to keep hogging content for 2nd to 5th line alts).

For those with raid gear and connections with others who also have similar levels of gear, maybe 300k isn't hard to get.

I've been on this sever for years and have maybe made 300-400k total in that entire time.

Ag are getting a lot of primals these days. You seem overly transfixed on server bogeymen :confused:

[kjs86z]

If you still have your velks faction, do brood mother my man, not hard to get like 15k in a night

When I was very, very green I ate a couple velk hits not having any idea how lucrative non-KoS could be.

dumb was me

[enjchanter]

When I was very, very green I ate a couple velk hits not having any idea how lucrative non-KoS could be.

dumb was me

Dont worry, I did this too :(

[Vigilance]

Up to almost 18 now. I've been fighting the scarecrows in West Karana which
are solid xp, though they hit hard. Root rotting works well though.

Wondering where I should go next. Not sure how long these would be blue but I guess I might be able to do it til 20 or close to it.

[klw]

Played with a Necromancer last night crawling Seb. Did a great job CCing, patching heals and dps (having a half decent summoned pet meant no need for juggling during breaks).

Sure we coulda used C if he was an enchanter instead, but his versatile spell book made him a hell of a lot more useful than a magician might have been.

(Ranger, cleric, shaman, Necromancer, rogue, monk).

[Wrekt]

My 43 warrior was healed by a necro in COM the other night.

Necro x 1000.

Iksar

[Cyph]

I was about to raise the same question in a new thread, but after reading this, my decision is made. Necro!

Now... which race? I'm thinking human....

Also, is there a necro guide I can reference somewhere?

[Nycon43]

I was about to raise the same question in a new thread, but after reading this, my decision is made. Necro!

Now... which race? I'm thinking human....

Also, is there a necro guide I can reference somewhere?

Make an iksar necro if you want to min/max, otherwise play what you want.

Read this guide for everything necro related:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Sesserdrix%27s_All_in_One_Necromancer_Strategy_Gui de

[DayForz]

Make a gnome if you want to be less hated and able to look through walls!

[Stroboo]

you will lich yourself to death way way way less as an iskar, but the exp penalty is real.
iskar is for min/max but it is also for the lazy necro, you don't have to ask for regen as much, or manage your lich line of spells as much, that kind of stuff too.

[Foxplay]

I know Necro toolbox is way better but I must say mage is the best class for killing lower level stuff... Just press 1 button give pet DS and haste. Then watch Netflix / YouTube. Summon a new pet every so often when it gets low

If you are one of the lucky few to have epic you don't even have to DS your pet 1 less click wow!

[Cyph]

Thanks Nycon! I thought gnome but I have something against their appeal, not sure what :)

[Cyph]

Lesson #1; 25 Int & 5 STA. Big difference looking at the stat comparison, time to reroll :)

[trite]

I will be mostly a filthy casual and soloing.

I love the mage class but I also love the necro. Eventually i would like to perhaps acquire my epic.

How far behind is the mage in terms of soloing than the necro

If you want an epic eventually, then necro is the way to go. Mage epic is the hardest to obtain by far. Also, necro is a much better solo class 1 - 60.

[Tuurin]

If you want an epic eventually, then necro is the way to go. Mage epic is the hardest to obtain by far. Also, necro is a much better solo class 1 - 60.

Wut? Necro epic? Necro epic is the absolute worst reason to choose to play a necro. Major pita that requires just as much socking/luck to get as earth staff for mages, plus it looks retarded and is no where near bis for a necro.

Fun class, very versatile, great soloer/farmer, etc but if you are playing a necro you might as well assume there is no such thing as an epic quest. Or better yet go after VP staff if you want a truly "epic" weapon.

[Cyph]

Lesson #2: Rerolled gnome.
Lesson #3 may be go Iksar ;)