Monk weapon question

[shwally]

So I picked up a helium maul of superiority for my monk recently. I was wondering if I should wield it in my primary hand or offhand? It is 11/18 which puts it at 1.83 DPS. I’m wondering if I should have epic fist + maul or go maul + scepter of mastery. Any suggestions would be great.

[Imago]

Paradigm: faster weapon mainhand, best ratio offhand.

If Epicced: Fist (9/16) and Maul (11/18)
If Not Epicced: Maul (11/18) and Scepter (13/20)

[Jimjam]

Nice gotcha but if you want to know what is the best set up for your build in the content you want to do then you're just gonna have to do a lot of in the field testing.

[Imago]

Going on your paradigm of enlightenment. What if it was 1/15 and 9/16. By your statement you’d put the 1/15 on, which is retarded. 17/25 outdamages 9/16 on all but AoW.

At what point did he say he was considering using a Piece of Shit (1/15) that doesn’t exist? The paradigm applies to the three comparable weapons in question: Epic Fist, Velium Maul and Scepter of Mastery.

Stay on point, and leave your Hammer of Battle out of it.

[Baylan295]

Going on your paradigm of enlightenment. What if it was 1/15 and 9/16. By your statement you’d put the 1/15 on, which is retarded. 17/25 outdamages 9/16 on all but AoW.

It’s a paradigm not the Word of God.

[shwally]

So would maul be better offhand than the scepter of mastery?

[Imago]

THe ratios are virtually the same (SoM is actually 13/21 = 0.619, vs VMoS is 0.611) so you need to consider other things. SoM is 3 weight but has mediocre melee stats. VMoS has 7 weight but lots of mediocre stats.

You could go either way with it, but weight might be the deciding factor.

[Troxx]

Maul + SoM should be more dps than epic + SoM - but it’d be so insanely close it does doesn’t matter. Epic would probably win on high ac targets.

If you can get ToV loot why would you waste dkp on that? 7 weight is ugh. Offhand SoM is a tiny bit better. I’d have saved your dkp for something more meaningful. Really the only upside of the maul are the stats, but it comes at a hefty price in terms of weight.

[Fragged]

Maul (11+5.5)/18 = 0.917
Fist (9+5.5)/16 = 0.906

So the Maul is barely better.

That being said I would expect the fist to out DPS the maul on Velius raid content because on high AC encounters minimum dmg is an exorbitant proportion of ones total DPS. Thus skewing the scale towards faster weapons.

[Raev]

That being said I would expect the fist to out DPS the maul on Velius raid content because on high AC encounters minimum dmg is an exorbitant proportion of ones total DPS.

Everyone seems to think this, but you can do trivial math on delay, double attack rates, and hit chances and show that the damage bonus grants is quite small. Even the 16 delay monk epic fist only generates ~14 dps from the bonus.

P.S. Hi Cinderr!

[Troxx]

Everyone seems to think this, but you can do trivial math on delay, double attack rates, and hit chances and show that the damage bonus grants is quite small. Even the 16 delay monk epic fist only generates ~14 dps from the bonus.

P.S. Hi Cinderr!

A better way to think about it:

With 255 str the max possible hit for epic fist is 56.63 (including damage bonus)

If, for the sake of math, you always hit for max - the damage bonus makes up 19% of your mainhand damage. Since nobody hits for max 100% of the time - damage bonus is actually much more than 19% of your mainhand damage when wielding epic primary. As Aikons pointed out, on high ac targets where you frequently hit at the lower end of the spectrum, high speed becomes more important.

11/18 is better than 9/16. It’s also blunt which has a higher skill cap (unless this changed). Even so, the upgrade from 9/16 to 11/18 is not huge and vs high ac targets that 12% reduction in damage bonus output can very well make it inferior on high ac targets. That’s what Aikons was getting at.

But ... 7 weight and dkp expenditure for marginal gains when you already have epic? I’d have passed on that item to a ranger or even warrior to use for low aggro dps.

For offhand, SoM has a slightly better ratio and isn’t nearly so heavy.

[Raev]

I'm not saying the delay of the weapon is irrelevant, but that the ratio is far more important. For example, let's compare two monks. One using the 9/16 epic fist (about the fastest and weakest weapon monks can get; ~14 dps from the bonus) with the Adamantite Club (about the slowest weapon a monk can get; ~9 dps from the bonus). My sperglord calculator (basically a simple multiplication of DA/DW/hit rates etc) thinks:

Vs Avatar of War: Epic/SoS 52 dps. AC/SoS 50 dps (+4%)
vs Froglok Krup Knight: Epic/SoS 74 dps. AC/SoS 72.5 dps (+2%)

This is just about the best case for the damage bonus to shine, and it's giving +2%. And the result should be pretty intuitive: the damage bonus just isn't that big. Even in the absolute best case it's only 25% of total damage.

[shwally]

I'm not saying the delay of the weapon is irrelevant, but that the ratio is far more important. For example, let's compare two monks. One using the 9/16 epic fist (about the fastest and weakest weapon monks can get; ~14 dps from the bonus) with the Adamantite Club (about the slowest weapon a monk can get; ~9 dps from the bonus). My sperglord calculator (basically a simple multiplication of DA/DW/hit rates etc) thinks:

Vs Avatar of War: Epic/SoS 52 dps. AC/SoS 50 dps (+4%)
vs Froglok Krup Knight: Epic/SoS 74 dps. AC/SoS 72.5 dps (+2%)

This is just about the best case for the damage bonus to shine, and it's giving +2%. And the result should be pretty intuitive: the damage bonus just isn't that big. Even in the absolute best case it's only 25% of total damage.


So basically it’s not a big enough difference which combo I decide to use. I haven’t got to pickup a SOM yet, but I did camp the mob 4 days last week with no luck. I will continue my quest for an SOM next week and do a lot of parsing different combos.