Para99
07-04-2018, 10:08 AM
Raev's thread about Rapture/GoK reminded me that GoK isn't working properly and I should stop procrastinating my bug report on it.
The main problem:
1) GoK should mez mobs levels 1 - 57
-- I've spoken to several other Enchanter's in game and asked on the forums (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299771) and no one has told me they successfully mezzed a 56 or 57 mob with this on P99.
I also tried to cast it on The Undertaker Lord 3 times, which were all resisted. It's possible they were just regular resists, it's impossible for me to tell without the mez immunity messages that were on live in 2001, but I think he was level immune. Worth noting, he's not immune to mez because he can be Raptured. I would do more testing but it's just not practical to chain cast a 275 mana spell on a level 56+ mob.
Evidence:
posted June 07, 2001 11:18 PM
I've start doing king at level 55 too, it's tough to mez those myconids, but sitll do-able. level 57+ there starts to be quite a safe camp as long as your group is balanced.
This group is prefered :
Enchanter + Cleric + Warrior + Rogue + Shaman + Druid/Wiz
and rapture is not too useful there, it tooks too much mana and refresh too slow, just cant spare one of the 8 spell slot to load Rapture. GoK is enough for those 56 mobs, and ROOT is good there too, esp. if there's no shaman and u have to do the SLOW job too.
This doesn't really need an explanation, the poster says GoK works on level 56 mobs. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
June 11, 2001
The adepts will CH, so if they are 55+, you'll have to use GoK to interrupt their casting, just make sure you have enough mana to keep the adds mez'd or you'll be in bigger trouble. The adept will run oom after 2-3 CH's and then it will finally die.
Same for this poster. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
posted June 11, 2001
To stop the 56 adepts from CHing, I found that mana sieve and torment of agril work nicely together, and are much easier on your mana than GoK. Mana sieve until the mushroom is down a bit in health, then torment it, and keep sieving. It might get off one CH, but if it is slowed, it won't be hurting you or your cleric's mana too much, and has never got a second CH off when I used this.
This poster is saying while GoK works on level 56 mobs, it's not the most efficient method. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
posted June 21, 2001 10:25 AM
Been doing fine in king since I first went at 54.
The rapture stun tactic is a great idea if you can fit it into a slot. Gok works but its not the same resistance so... you take some risk in a CH.
There is also the fact that adepts cheat. They can CH even if you successfully stun. For some of these the only solution ive found is to mana seive, tot, and torment. For some reason even though these adepts have ungodly amounts of mana, if you seive enough, they will stop healing.
When facing a 56 reaver and a 54 warrior, tell your party to GET ON THE REAVER NOW. It's the difference between an easy low-mana mez and a costly 24 second bizatch of a crowd control method. Same applies with the 56 reaver and a 55 priest... yes, its weird, but you need to trust your mana here. Get on the highest mob.
This poster basically says the same thing. GoK will work on 56 mobs, but since it doesn't have the -1000MR mod that Rapture does it's safer to just use Rapture. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
July 25 - August 23, 2001
Description: This is an upgraded mesmerise spell.
It has a very large mana cost for its short duration, but is balanced with the ability to affect 55+ mobs
It also carries a much more effective memory blur than previous mesmerise spells.
This is the spell description on Caster's Realm that Wayback Machine captured in August, 2001. The July, 2001 capture is the same but that's the earliest I can get to load. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010823030812/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
THIS SPELL IS NICE.., By Quezar (1/28/2001)
This spell is nice on any type of monster level 55 or higher. This goes for Seb Guardians, shrooms,all the deep stuff in Sebilis.
Havent been back to the hole yet to see if I can actually mez those golems, but I'm sure I probably can now.
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20011225024718/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
SPELL WILL NOT HOLD ON 56+, By Songwind k'treva (6/9/2001)
Considering your lvl is 52 a lvl 55 mob will be red to you, dazzle will *not* hold on a lvl 56 mob. GoK is needed for this.
This poster is replying to another poster telling him that Dazzle wont mez level 56 mobs, but GoK will. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20011225024718/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
GLAMOUR OF KINTAZ, By Fyre d`kaotik (1/28/2001)
If you dont follow the enchanter boards, it's been stated by several 55+ enchanters that this is the only mez spell that works on mobs 55+. Dazzle reports that (this target cannot be mezmerized (with this spell)). They dont want those super powerful mobs mez'd for long.
This poster specifically mentions that mobs that give the immune to mez message due to level can be mezzed with GoK. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020119200955/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=177&Page=2)
EFFECTIVE?, By Dowd "the dood" muk (1/28/2001)
Correct, this spell will work on Mobs lvl 56 or greater, while lesser spells in the series fail. The duration is short and the mana cost extreme. This was done to lessen the impact of the enchanter against extreme level mobs. I did some work in Sebilis against Juggernauts and it becomes quite difficult to handle 2-3 mobs of this caliber. Still, a useful spell against very high lvl mobs and a great addition to the series.
This poster specifically mentions mezzing Juggs with it. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020119200955/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=177&Page=2)
RE: Groupin juggs
Dec 04 2001
Anonymous
I very much agree with you Mand.
Though, a few additions:
a) Enchanter 54+ will do. They need to have Glamour of Kintaz, but even the lowely 34 Tash is enough to allow a 56+ shaman to reliably land slow.
b) While Juggs cannot be mes'd. They can be enraptured by the Glamour or the 57 Mes. Even though it's not very mana effecient to do so, Landing a GoK while the debuffs are cast can make it alot easier for the Shaman to get that slow in.
This poster again mentions that Juggs can only be mezzed with Rapture or GoK. The post was written on the exact day Luclin was released, but I think it's safe to assume it wasn't a Luclin change Link (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=4570)
5/23/00
> I guess Verant really doesn't want 55+ mobs messed. Does enthrall
> work? Or is it one of the intermediate spells between mes and
> dazzle? I forget.
No only the level 54 Glamour will, and the upgrade at 59 I guess, which
costs 500 mana duration unknown as yet.
This poster is replying to another poster saying only GoK and Rapture can be used to mez mobs over level 55. This is from one of the Google groups Rygar has linked I'm not sure if the link will actually work but here it is. Link (https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/glamour$20of$20kintaz/alt.games.everquest/TE0_BSQzRjg)
6/13/00
Enchanter: these guys got hit bad because of 56+ monsters can't
be messed. They have to use glamour of kintaz which is ridiculously
inefficient. Their haste spells are pointless and their color shift
line gets pointless mana draining upgrades.
This poster is talking about which classes were upgraded the most with Kunark, and indicates Enchanter mezzes outside of GoK (and presumably Rapture) didn't work on the mobs over level 55. This is another Google group post. Link (https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/glamour$20of$20kintaz/alt.games.everquest/fsCnA4ayPC0)
(NO DATE)
You will need at least one 54+ enchanter. Glamour of Kintaz is a nice near-foolproof way to mez a jugger.
That said about the enchanter, your main way to crowd control should be root + turgurs, and, if you're having problems keeping them off your casters, split tanking. Glamour of Kintaz will leave your enchanter OOM most of the time, and unable to buff or to dazzle the reets (most of which can be mezzed with plain old dazzle).
This is the only evidence I have that doesn't have a date, but the context of the guide suggests to me it was written during Velious. Link (http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/kunark/sebilis/trakanon.htm)
I've done quite a bit of reading on this, and the only thing I can find that suggests GoK was capped at 55 is the line in the Lucy history
2002-07-24 09:28 Changed Slot 1 from "Mesmerize(2)" to "Mesmerize(2/58)"
Link (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1691&source=Live) But Lucy didn't use the 2/Max Level until 2002 because every mez just has "Mesmerize (2)" until 2002. In my extensive reading I can't find anyone complaining that GoK wasn't working as intended.
I know my personal testing doesn't count for much with only a few casts, so if anyone knows of a 56 or 57 mob that would be easier to try chain casting this on I'd be happy to give it a try.
Secondary Problem:
-- There is also a small amount of evidence from Casters Realm and Lucy that GoK should have a 0.0 recast time in this era, which isn't the case on p99.
2003-01-15 11:04 Changed Recast Time from 0.0 seconds to 2.2 seconds
Link (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1691&source=Live)
And the 2001 Casters Realm description its self
Recast Time: Instant
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010823030812/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
The main problem:
1) GoK should mez mobs levels 1 - 57
-- I've spoken to several other Enchanter's in game and asked on the forums (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299771) and no one has told me they successfully mezzed a 56 or 57 mob with this on P99.
I also tried to cast it on The Undertaker Lord 3 times, which were all resisted. It's possible they were just regular resists, it's impossible for me to tell without the mez immunity messages that were on live in 2001, but I think he was level immune. Worth noting, he's not immune to mez because he can be Raptured. I would do more testing but it's just not practical to chain cast a 275 mana spell on a level 56+ mob.
Evidence:
posted June 07, 2001 11:18 PM
I've start doing king at level 55 too, it's tough to mez those myconids, but sitll do-able. level 57+ there starts to be quite a safe camp as long as your group is balanced.
This group is prefered :
Enchanter + Cleric + Warrior + Rogue + Shaman + Druid/Wiz
and rapture is not too useful there, it tooks too much mana and refresh too slow, just cant spare one of the 8 spell slot to load Rapture. GoK is enough for those 56 mobs, and ROOT is good there too, esp. if there's no shaman and u have to do the SLOW job too.
This doesn't really need an explanation, the poster says GoK works on level 56 mobs. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
June 11, 2001
The adepts will CH, so if they are 55+, you'll have to use GoK to interrupt their casting, just make sure you have enough mana to keep the adds mez'd or you'll be in bigger trouble. The adept will run oom after 2-3 CH's and then it will finally die.
Same for this poster. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
posted June 11, 2001
To stop the 56 adepts from CHing, I found that mana sieve and torment of agril work nicely together, and are much easier on your mana than GoK. Mana sieve until the mushroom is down a bit in health, then torment it, and keep sieving. It might get off one CH, but if it is slowed, it won't be hurting you or your cleric's mana too much, and has never got a second CH off when I used this.
This poster is saying while GoK works on level 56 mobs, it's not the most efficient method. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
posted June 21, 2001 10:25 AM
Been doing fine in king since I first went at 54.
The rapture stun tactic is a great idea if you can fit it into a slot. Gok works but its not the same resistance so... you take some risk in a CH.
There is also the fact that adepts cheat. They can CH even if you successfully stun. For some of these the only solution ive found is to mana seive, tot, and torment. For some reason even though these adepts have ungodly amounts of mana, if you seive enough, they will stop healing.
When facing a 56 reaver and a 54 warrior, tell your party to GET ON THE REAVER NOW. It's the difference between an easy low-mana mez and a costly 24 second bizatch of a crowd control method. Same applies with the 56 reaver and a 55 priest... yes, its weird, but you need to trust your mana here. Get on the highest mob.
This poster basically says the same thing. GoK will work on 56 mobs, but since it doesn't have the -1000MR mod that Rapture does it's safer to just use Rapture. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010715143709/http://forums.castersrealm.com:80/cgi-bin/eq/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001153)
July 25 - August 23, 2001
Description: This is an upgraded mesmerise spell.
It has a very large mana cost for its short duration, but is balanced with the ability to affect 55+ mobs
It also carries a much more effective memory blur than previous mesmerise spells.
This is the spell description on Caster's Realm that Wayback Machine captured in August, 2001. The July, 2001 capture is the same but that's the earliest I can get to load. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010823030812/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
THIS SPELL IS NICE.., By Quezar (1/28/2001)
This spell is nice on any type of monster level 55 or higher. This goes for Seb Guardians, shrooms,all the deep stuff in Sebilis.
Havent been back to the hole yet to see if I can actually mez those golems, but I'm sure I probably can now.
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20011225024718/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
SPELL WILL NOT HOLD ON 56+, By Songwind k'treva (6/9/2001)
Considering your lvl is 52 a lvl 55 mob will be red to you, dazzle will *not* hold on a lvl 56 mob. GoK is needed for this.
This poster is replying to another poster telling him that Dazzle wont mez level 56 mobs, but GoK will. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20011225024718/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)
GLAMOUR OF KINTAZ, By Fyre d`kaotik (1/28/2001)
If you dont follow the enchanter boards, it's been stated by several 55+ enchanters that this is the only mez spell that works on mobs 55+. Dazzle reports that (this target cannot be mezmerized (with this spell)). They dont want those super powerful mobs mez'd for long.
This poster specifically mentions that mobs that give the immune to mez message due to level can be mezzed with GoK. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020119200955/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=177&Page=2)
EFFECTIVE?, By Dowd "the dood" muk (1/28/2001)
Correct, this spell will work on Mobs lvl 56 or greater, while lesser spells in the series fail. The duration is short and the mana cost extreme. This was done to lessen the impact of the enchanter against extreme level mobs. I did some work in Sebilis against Juggernauts and it becomes quite difficult to handle 2-3 mobs of this caliber. Still, a useful spell against very high lvl mobs and a great addition to the series.
This poster specifically mentions mezzing Juggs with it. Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020119200955/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=177&Page=2)
RE: Groupin juggs
Dec 04 2001
Anonymous
I very much agree with you Mand.
Though, a few additions:
a) Enchanter 54+ will do. They need to have Glamour of Kintaz, but even the lowely 34 Tash is enough to allow a 56+ shaman to reliably land slow.
b) While Juggs cannot be mes'd. They can be enraptured by the Glamour or the 57 Mes. Even though it's not very mana effecient to do so, Landing a GoK while the debuffs are cast can make it alot easier for the Shaman to get that slow in.
This poster again mentions that Juggs can only be mezzed with Rapture or GoK. The post was written on the exact day Luclin was released, but I think it's safe to assume it wasn't a Luclin change Link (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=4570)
5/23/00
> I guess Verant really doesn't want 55+ mobs messed. Does enthrall
> work? Or is it one of the intermediate spells between mes and
> dazzle? I forget.
No only the level 54 Glamour will, and the upgrade at 59 I guess, which
costs 500 mana duration unknown as yet.
This poster is replying to another poster saying only GoK and Rapture can be used to mez mobs over level 55. This is from one of the Google groups Rygar has linked I'm not sure if the link will actually work but here it is. Link (https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/glamour$20of$20kintaz/alt.games.everquest/TE0_BSQzRjg)
6/13/00
Enchanter: these guys got hit bad because of 56+ monsters can't
be messed. They have to use glamour of kintaz which is ridiculously
inefficient. Their haste spells are pointless and their color shift
line gets pointless mana draining upgrades.
This poster is talking about which classes were upgraded the most with Kunark, and indicates Enchanter mezzes outside of GoK (and presumably Rapture) didn't work on the mobs over level 55. This is another Google group post. Link (https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/glamour$20of$20kintaz/alt.games.everquest/fsCnA4ayPC0)
(NO DATE)
You will need at least one 54+ enchanter. Glamour of Kintaz is a nice near-foolproof way to mez a jugger.
That said about the enchanter, your main way to crowd control should be root + turgurs, and, if you're having problems keeping them off your casters, split tanking. Glamour of Kintaz will leave your enchanter OOM most of the time, and unable to buff or to dazzle the reets (most of which can be mezzed with plain old dazzle).
This is the only evidence I have that doesn't have a date, but the context of the guide suggests to me it was written during Velious. Link (http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/kunark/sebilis/trakanon.htm)
I've done quite a bit of reading on this, and the only thing I can find that suggests GoK was capped at 55 is the line in the Lucy history
2002-07-24 09:28 Changed Slot 1 from "Mesmerize(2)" to "Mesmerize(2/58)"
Link (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1691&source=Live) But Lucy didn't use the 2/Max Level until 2002 because every mez just has "Mesmerize (2)" until 2002. In my extensive reading I can't find anyone complaining that GoK wasn't working as intended.
I know my personal testing doesn't count for much with only a few casts, so if anyone knows of a 56 or 57 mob that would be easier to try chain casting this on I'd be happy to give it a try.
Secondary Problem:
-- There is also a small amount of evidence from Casters Realm and Lucy that GoK should have a 0.0 recast time in this era, which isn't the case on p99.
2003-01-15 11:04 Changed Recast Time from 0.0 seconds to 2.2 seconds
Link (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1691&source=Live)
And the 2001 Casters Realm description its self
Recast Time: Instant
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20010823030812/http://eq.castersrealm.com:80/spells/spell.asp?Id=177)