Dispel system is so screwed up...

[Pryda]

Every single time...

I fully buff up. I have like 8 junk buffs and then DMF in 9th slot and POTG in 10th. I get dispelled twice and lose potg and dmf. My top buffs don't get targeted. My weak "low counter" buffs don't get removed. I lose my buffs that take 400 mana to cast or I get from other players.

Every single time. How is this a thing?

[Raev]

Usually when I'm getting consistently dispelled on the 4th slot or something, I camp out and when I log in again my buffs are in a different order because the client got out of sync with the server.

[Llandris]

This (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172383) thread may help answer some questions regarding dispelling

[Pryda]

I read that thread before I made this post to see if I could figure out how the system is supposed to work.

I reset my buffs with either a death or clicking off every buff and zoning to begin the rebuff. I tried to keep the same buff order through the grind session.

1. Spirit of Wolf
2. Lich
3. Shadow Sight
4. Spirit Armor
5. Resist Poison
6. Resist Magic
7. Dead Man Floating
8. Arch Shielding
9. Skin Like Nature
10. Regrowth

Testing on the guards in Felwithe who will chain cast dispel. I'm not sure if it's Cancel Magic or Nullify - but for the purpose of this test and these results it is irrelevant.

Through several nights of grinding I haven't had SoW or Lich dispelled a single time. Not once - and they are my first 2 buffs always! I set it like this so I could replace with jboots and my Allure of Death clicky when I got dispelled.

That never happened though. Instead, dispel would typically land on me 2-4 times in a row without losing any buffs then I would lose either Skin or Arch Shielding. Occasionally I would lose DMF, but it was almost always Skin or Arch Shielding lost first. After one of those was dispelled I might lose Shadow Sight or Spirit Armor before I had a chance to rebuff. Resist Poison/Magic was almost never dispelled.

I read how dispel is "intended" to work... but it certainly does not work that way. I do not remember dispel working like this during this time period on live. I do not remember experiencing dispel working like this on any other box. Something is broken. My Skin/Arch Shielding/DMF/Regrowth should not be getting dispelled before SoW/Jboots/Shadow Sight/ResistX every single time.

[Bummey]

When it comes to mobs casting dispel spells, I don't think buff order means anything anymore, unless it's (dragon) aoes with a dispel component that always nuke the top buff.

[Triiz]

When it comes to mobs casting dispel spells, I don't think buff order means anything anymore, unless it's (dragon) aoes with a dispel component that always nuke the top buff.

It 100% matters when it comes to regular spells too.

As far as OP, the Felwithe guards are Paladin's so they are definitely casting regular Cancel Magic, Nullify Magic is a level 58 spell for Pally's.

Here's (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1585548#post1585548) the best description that I've seen on P99's dispel system

Most of basics are this. Not totally, but this is general idea.

Say buff 1 has 3 effects, we assign it 3 counters with a strength of 3.
Buff 2 has 4 effects, 4 counters, strenth 4
Buff 3 has 1 effect, 1 strength.

If u have those 3 buffs in order, and cast cancel magic.

It checks buff 1, do say a rand 100, it has 3 str, so if ran less than 33, kills buff and done

If it fails its check counter -1. If counter at 0, dump buff, done.

If no buff dumped, move to buff 2. If ran 100 < 100/4, dump buff, else counter--

If no buff dumped, go to buff 3. It has 1 counter, so if we passed all the other checks to get her, we kill the buff. It looks like cancel magic takes out buff 3. Wow, looks random. But its not.

Thats basic idea. A buff can have up to 8 counters. So you could take 8 cancel magics to dump.

If you have a dispell(9). It does 9 iterations on each buff. But stops after kills a buff, for that slot of dispell(9).

2 dispell 9 buffs always take top 2 slots, unless its a buff that cant be dispelled. Think rez effects.

You could have a cancel magic cast once lower all counters of all buffs by 1, but if all passed their check, and none hit zero counters, none disappear.

And it can make it look like buffs get removed at random.

Thats the basics.

H

buff yourself then cast cancel magic on yourself 10 times rebuffing whatever gets dispelled after each time. I bet you take out one of the top 2 or 3 slots at least 7 times out of 10 if not 9 times out of 10. I did that like a month ago and these were the results.


I cast 4 low level (under lvl 20) buffs on myself, and then cast Cancel magic on myself 10 times, recasting whatever buff got dispelled after each Cancel Magic. Slot 3 or 4 never got dispelled.

1 - Slot 2
2- Slot 1
3 - None
4 - Slot 2
5 - Slot 1
6 - Slot 2
7 - Slot 1
8 - Slot 1
9 - Slot 1
10 - Slot 2

[Pryda]

My first 2 buff slots also had weak/low counter buffs. Whether the dispel system targets counters or slots, those should have been the ones dispelled. Not Arch Shielding, Skin like Nature, etc that were at the back.

[Pezy]

Going by Haynar's post, if you have two single counter buffs (like see invis and an illusion for example), an annul cast should never get beyond those into your stronger buffs that you intended to have protected against dispels. This just isn't the case though, hence the frustration of many. Have 4 single counter buffs at the top of your buff bar should protect you against having things like aegos and skins dispelled, but it doesn't.

[Mr.Specter]

Going by Haynar's post, if you have two single counter buffs (like see invis and an illusion for example), an annul cast should never get beyond those into your stronger buffs that you intended to have protected against dispels. This just isn't the case though, hence the frustration of many. Have 4 single counter buffs at the top of your buff bar should protect you against having things like aegos and skins dispelled, but it doesn't.

this this this this

[jpetrick]

I keep up 8 junk buffs (monk epic, ring 10, 5 flowers, see invis bracer) and will still have buffs dispelled from my 9th slot or lower at times. This seems fucked.

[Erati]

Players assuming “junk” buffs default to the lowest buff counter here on p99 is the issue, however I feel it needs to be looked into w more evidence how clickies are calculated in terms of buff counters. Pezy describes it well but the problem is See Invis and illusion buffs have too large of range of counters to roll so they inadvertently will sometimes have more counters than lvl 60 buff spells which should not be the case. Clickies should always roll a lower amount of counters and be easier to get dispelled than casted high level spells, Im almost positive the level of the spell factors here and clickies usually feature low level spells or default a low spell level.

Thats the crux of issue tho, clicky buffs roll too high of a counter and thusly appear to be “ignored” on dispells like annul magic which applies dispell to multiple slots.

[Triiz]

My first 2 buff slots also had weak/low counter buffs. Whether the dispel system targets counters or slots, those should have been the ones dispelled. Not Arch Shielding, Skin like Nature, etc that were at the back.

I'm not an expert on P99 dispels by any means, I've just read every "Dispel is broke" thread from the last 5 years. You said it yourself, they are dispelling you multiple times before a buff gets stripped. Haynar specifically mentions that scenario the bottom of the post. There's also no way to know the number of counters your SOW/Lich has compared to your DMF/POTG, the DMF/POTG could have had 1 counter each when you got them. In the post I linked Haynar says it's based on the number of effects but that's when it was still in development and it was changed so each buffs rolls a random number 1 -8.

There is no guaranteed way to keep a buff in slot 10-15 from getting dispelled because you can't control the counters the buffs get, but it's definitely more likely that one of your first few buffs will have low enough counters to get stripped and stop the dispel than like slot 10.

Players assuming “junk” buffs default to the lowest buff counter here on p99 is the issue

Yep and the last post I've seen Haynar make about that was in 2014 he said (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1707557&postcount=41)

From eqlive, clickies are not guaranteed a 1.

[Rygar]

I do remember on Live during late Velious / Early SoL I got an AoN and was told to keep it in first slot to help fight dispels (I was a warrior). I remember it barely ever worked as it seemed random, so it didn't really have a guaranteed way to protect my good buffs.

I'm talking in terms of fighting exp trash mobs, not raid encounters.

I seem to recall it would never swing my offhand weapon either which really annoyed me. I don't remember if skeletons didn't have a particular animation setup for the style weapon I was using or if it was graphic bug. I just hated it.

But back on subject, I think more controlled tests with large sample sizes can help Haynar / devs see if there truly is a bug with the dispel system or if it is working as intended.

[Erati]

The system works as constructed, the problem is Haynar stated clickies do not by defaut roll a 1 for their buff counters. We need research on this aspect as I am fairly certain the level of the spell should factor in the type of buff counter roll allowable.

For example, it makes more sense that sub lvl 30 spells (which most clickies will reside in) should roll something like 1-5 while lvl 60 spells should have higher base rolls like 6-10 and can never roll a 1. I strongly feel high level spells should not roll equally in terms of buff counters w a lvl 10 buff regardless if its a click or not. If that wrinkle gets changed, players can keep their buffs tidy again.

Need more research in this area pls!

[Erati]

After receiving buffs, manually click off your first two buffs (ostensibly your dummy buffs) and reapply. Problem solved in 95% of situations; the key to p99 is getting around its wonkiness, rather than waiting for a patch in the year 2525.

this is not actually factually correct in terms of the mechanics of dispell however this trick will fix the client buff order bug that does result in some odd dispell behavior.

Even if you do as above, you can still roll high buff counter rolls n have a dispell skip over the top few buffs, but at least they will be in an accurate order in terms of client display