Rogue maces

[Redster90]

Howdy all!

I've been wondering if there are any usable maces or 1h blunt weapons for rogue? If you could point out a few for me, that'd be righteous.

[Vineyea]

sarnak warhammer
https://wiki.project1999.com/Sarnak_Warhammer

[DinoTriz]

I used Iksar Berserker Club (http://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Berserker_Club) when my Rogue was starting out.

I believe it procs at level 14?

Don't use a Sarnak Warhammer...that proc will taunt and that's the last thing you want as a Rogue.

[Wetdawg]

Jade Mace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Jade_Mace

[Legidias]

Tier`Dal Sai, Exquisite Velium Battlehammer

[Jimjam]

Blackjack

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Jade Mace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Jade_Mace

[Cecily]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Rogue/1H_Blunt/AllItems

[Imago]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Velium_Maul_of_Superiority

[Swish2]

1/2 ratio as a rogue is a good starting point.... jade maces are good value ^^

[Wickedbane]

Does Back stab work with 1hb?

1hp and 1hs could both constitute as a stab.

1hb would be what a poke? a scratch? a knock? Curtains can’t be a stab

[DinoTriz]

Does Back stab work with 1hb?

1hp and 1hs could both constitute as a stab.

1hb would be what a poke? a scratch? a knock? Curtains can’t be a stab

Need to have a Piercing weapon in main hand to Backstab.

Would be awesome if you could BS with a 2 hander though. Imagine the damage...

[Swish2]

Big damage weapon = main hand (make it a piercer always)
Good ratio weapon = off hand (as in 9/18 equipped there over 10/44)

[enjchanter]

Big damage weapon = main hand (make it a piercer always)
Good ratio weapon = off hand (as in 9/18 equipped there over 10/44)

One thing I have been curious about is if it gives you more dps fo use say like a shadow rager (8/18) MH but swap in a higher damage piercer only for backstage then swap back immediately.

Based on what I know about melee I would imagine this would definitely be more dps but it's quite alot of micromanagement especially if you're only increasing your dps by like 2 or 3%

I am an amateur at best at melee classes and a fledging rogue at best so I really dont know

The consensus I have found is yes but it's not worth it, but more opinions is nice !

[Cecily]

Shadow Rager is a trash weapon. You're better off with crystalline spider fang (10/22) in terms of ratio and backstab potential.

Faster delay applies your damage bonus more often and is part of the consideration of main hand selection for most melee classes over level 30. Rogues have to consider damage in primary, as your backstab damage scales proportionately. Rogue priorities are generally damage, ratio, and then delay. Most other dual wield melees look for a high ratio with a low delay.

Shadow Rager is a bad weapon on all accounts. Bad damage to delay ratio, extremely low backstab potential, and if you're seriously considering using one you don't even have a damage bonus to benefit from as that starts at level 31+. It's good for push, but even then that's a lv 50+ grouping tactic.

Offhand selection for a rogue is purely ratio. The higher ratio is better. The only exception is that 36% haste swiftblade since the majority of your low level damage will come from mainhand and backstabs.

[DinoTriz]

Shadow Rager is fashionquest.

I used a Serpent's Tooth (http://wiki.project1999.com/Serpent%27s_Tooth) while my Rogue was leveling, but that was before Velious was out. There are probably more high damage piercing options out there now.

[enjchanter]

Shadow Rager is a trash weapon. You're better off with crystalline spider fang (10/22) in terms of ratio and backstab potential.

Faster delay applies your damage bonus more often and is part of the consideration of main hand selection for most melee classes over level 30. Rogues have to consider damage in primary, as your backstab damage scales proportionately. Rogue priorities are generally damage, ratio, and then delay. Most other dual wield melees look for a high ratio with a low delay.

Shadow Rager is a bad weapon on all accounts. Bad damage to delay ratio, extremely low backstab potential, and if you're seriously considering using one you don't even have a damage bonus to benefit from as that starts at level 31+. It's good for push, but even then that's a lv 50+ grouping tactic.

Offhand selection for a rogue is purely ratio. The higher ratio is better. The only exception is that 36% haste swiftblade since the majority of your low level damage will come from mainhand and backstabs.


Right but I think you missed my question:
Is it worth it go for that fast main hand and swap in a higher damage weapon for the backstab and then swap back ?

Currently the idea is to use 8/18 dagger MH with 10/22 (ish) off hand and then for each backstab, swap in an (11/21) ratio piercer and then after backstab, swap back to the 8/18 weapon. All of this with 36% haste through cof. the past few levels ive tried it that way and just simply main handling the 11/21 spear fulltime and if I'm honest it feels similar.

If I'm being even more honest, it's almost a moot point since next level I will just use ragebringer mh full time and that will replace my cloak of flames

[Legidias]

Technically yes, but unless youre 55+, the MH bonus dmg isnt that significant to use a super low delay MH. Im not sure why you're so se on a trashy shadow rager, when you could use some other high ratio weap in MH (like an exquisite velium weap), swapping in like PoS spear or a 13 dmg piercer on BS. Technically it would be higher DPS if you wanted to micro everything.

Given 8/18 and 11/21, while low levels, the DPS output of the trash ratio 8/18 will be terrible and theres no reason to use it.

Also, 11 dmg is terrible for a BS swap. At least get a crystalline spear to swap in, if thats your goal.

[enjchanter]

I appreciate the advice , like I said, I'm a newb rogue at best but I try to maximize what I can.

I'm not super set on shadow rager it's just currently one of the 3 dps weapons I have atm. I do have ragebringer in my bags and am 1 level from using it. I assume it all kinda becomes null at that point because the attack and 40% haste just beats using anything else I assume. One thing I'd like to mention is that at 46 , a good bit of tov weapons will become available to me, is there any particular weapons that a rogue would really benefit from having barring vyemms fang and vulak dagger ?

The frozen spike and kriez short sword are very interesting to me as potential N/V off hands

I'm not going for anything close to BiS but I'd like to build a solid rogue

[Cecily]

Shadow Rager isn't a DPS weapon. I know you're not good at melee but I spelled out everything you need to know atm. Re-read my post until you understand what a dps weapon is. Or don't. And get your BIS weapons without understanding why they're best in slot.

Moving on from hating you and that pos weapon, I don't recommend weapon swapping. Most of your damage comes from being in the right position. More micromanagement takes away from your focus on positioning. Back in Kunark, TMO rogues tested and decided weapon swaps reduce overall dps due to resetting weapon delay timers. My advice is to get a good in most situation setup and just play the game. Have a utility weapon or two, but just keep to one main setup most of the time. In a group or raiding situation I use Ragebringer / Claw of Lightning unless I'm pushing. Then I swap main to Nightfall.

[enjchanter]

I think maybe I'm overthinking it heh ...

I think what I'll do is stick it out for one more level and get ragebringer and then look into either purchasing one of the really nice velium spears or picking up the kriez piercer since its ranked pretty high on the wiki for ratio.

I'm all about the utility so I'm rocking snare , tash and slow (at level 50 that is) so far!

Maybe I can get my faction up someday and slap some skyshrine chain on him to beef him up a little !

[Cecily]

I don't think you're thinking enough. I want you to understand why shadowrager is a bad weapon. Please don't get near BIS weapons until you get that concept, because I'm fearful someone might think you have nice stuff and ask you for advice. Then the class as a whole will just get dumber.

[enjchanter]

This is what I have gathered so far:

-Shadow rager is dumb because you could back stab harder with a mozzerrella stick and to compound, the damage is just too low and the extra damage bonus isnt spiffy enough to bother using it.

-damage is a higher priority to rogues than other melees for their main hand because back stabs scale with the damage.

-swapping weapons is a no go because resetting delays wastes time you could have just been swinging in the first place.

-a high ratio off hand is all that matters for a rogue unless pushing

-utility is important

-make sure you train double attack at the appropriate level and not 21 levels after you get like I did

[Cecily]

I realize I'm being abusive, but you're being a decent student. Just wanna make sure you know your baseline shit. Don't take that weapon reset bit as gospel, but overall I think you're right in thinking that you're best off rocking epic most of the time. That is until you get to post-epics and jfc that's another can of worms I'm not going into right now.

[enjchanter]

I realize I'm being abusive, but you're being a decent student. Just wanna make sure you know your baseline shit. Don't take that weapon reset bit as gospel, but overall I think you're right in thinking that you're best off rocking epic most of the time. That is until you get to post-epics and jfc that's another can of worms I'm not going into right now.

Meh, I'm trying to learn so I'm not going to bash the advice especially if im not well versed.

Post epics will likely not happen for my rogue in particular, just trying to not have a gimped rogue. Which it sounds like I have based on what I know now! Lol.

I had a better backstab weapon (rapier of oriin) but I ended up giving it to a rogue who was new to the server who could make better use of it which is the main reason I'm using the 11/21 spear atm

I should also apologize to OP for hijacking the thread but maybe some useful tips he didnt already have were shared to make TWO better rogues on p99 :D

Cheers

[DinoTriz]

If you have your epic and are only 1 level away from using it, don't bother with worrying about a main hand weapon. You have that covered.

Just get a decent off hand weapon. Something with a good ratio.

[enjchanter]

my first backstab with ragebringer did about 150 more dmg than the highest backstab i have seen thus far

[Cecily]

Congrats :)

[Baylan295]

my first backstab with ragebringer did about 150 more dmg than the highest backstab i have seen thus far

I don’t know what kind of DKP it goes for, but the baton off cekenar is a 1HB and just slays.

[Raev]

Enjchanter try thinking about it this way: there is really only one variable here, damage. Ratio will generally be proportional to the difficulty of obtaining an item, so you can pick high damage/high delay or low damage/low delay, but not high damage/low delay. Since backstab is more important than the damage bonus, the best choice is the high damage/high delay weapon. This makes all of the fast, low damage TOV weapons pretty worthless, with one little wrinkle: if the target has very high AC most of your backstabs will be for the minimum anyway. This will not happen while leveling, though.

I remember a conversation with Koraf when he was making his Rampage Velious wishlist. He was a little annoyed after he realized that the primary accounted for 80% of all rogue damage. Since the secondary does so little damage, Ragebringer's +ATK is more important than the improved ratio of other Velious weapons. So once you get either a Vulak or Tunare dagger you're basically done.