Lore wise, are the Claws of Veeshan evil?

[Tobius]

Veeshan herself seems like she was kind of a dick, beefing with Brell who is a good dude.

The CoV dragons are just isolationists who want to chill and worship their god in peace?

Is it ethical to kill them? Especially to kill the poor little key dropping drake after you've already befriended them to ally?

Not a troll post. Genuine ethical question over elf simulator pixels.

[loramin]

Is it ethical to kill them?

Is it ethical to kill most of the stuff we kill in EQ? Of course not: ethics says that if some being(s) are hanging out somewhere and they're not hurting anyone, then it's unethical to go hurt them. That description applies to most mobs, even many "evil" ones.

Plus, of the remaining mobs that fight with each other, who's to say who is good or evil? Are the Trolls evil for defending their home? Sure they are primitive cannibals who conquered their home from other primitives, but so were some native peoples; did that make it ok for the Europeans to wipe them out?

Similarly, the Frogloks want to take back their ancestral home using violence ... so basically they're like the Palestinian people: does that make them evil?

Questions of ethics are best left for the real world; in EQ ethics are what you make of them, faction is all that really matters.

[MagpieRockyl]

Veeshan is a space dragon and put dragons on Norrath first, before anyone, including your precious Brell. Brell and the other gods came second and made mortal races to compete for Norrath.

It really depends on your moral code. Do you believe in manifest destiny as a mortal race? After all, your god created YOU to reclaim Australia (norrath) from the Abo dogs (dragon brood).

Mostly, dragons dindu nuffin and you're a dick for hunting them.

The funny thing is that Veeshan is a swole as birch who is off terraforming and colonizing other planets with her dragoons, she's so alfalfa she doesn't even care about this puny world.

The real answer to your question is that YES it is ethical, as long as you are a halfling or working for Mayor Gubbin. Mayor Gubbin is the biggest Democratic leader in all of Norrath and he is voted into office by the people. Rivervale leads the entire planet in terms of highly developed democratic capitalist system. The hobbits are a truly FREE people, and this is why we are so often hunted and harmed by the NON-FREE people of NOrrath (iksar scum who quake beneath the rule of their tyrants). The juxtaposition between Rivervale and Cabilis is a direct nod to the early 70s movie Easy Rider. The thesis of Easy Rider is that being free, truly free, frightens people more than anything. And that the most dangerous people are those who 'believe' they are free, yet are prisoners of their society. The iksar scum are the rednecks of Easy Rider while the good Hobbits are the pure hearted cocaine dealing free boys who ride their choppers on a glorious trip thru America.

Furthermore, Cabilis must be destroyed. The Rivervale Vanguard follows Decree IV of Article XIV of the Rivervale Constitution, which is that Rivervale must destroy her enemies both at home and abroad. Therefore, whenever the hobbit Council identifies a foreign threat, the Vanguard is fully sanctioned by Dear Leader Gubbin to dispose of that threat in its own home and to reap whatever platinum gains may be had, to bring the platinum gains back to Rivervale, and to increase the production of Jum.

The most important thing you can do, if you care about GOOD in Norrath, is to ally yourself with Gubbin and help in the conquest of all Norrath. We must unite the world beneath Gubbin. The hobbits will make you free!!

[Crawdad]

I've always assumed raiders were the bad guys.

Nagafen and Vox: Dragons being dragons
Venril Sathir: Just some old lizard floating in his castle
Trakanon: Just some old undead dragon being a dragon
Vesshan's Peak: More dragons being dragons
Gorenaire/Talendor/Severilous: Dragons enjoying a stroll
Dain, Tormax, Yelinak: Just some dudes trying to lead their people
Sleepers Tomb: We ruin a dragon jail because we can
Planes of Power: We fuck things up so bad we have to be sent back in time

Luclin has.. some kind of rationale, but all I remember is VT key PTSD.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Planes of Power: We fuck things up so bad we have to be sent back in time.





kind of ironic considering that PoP fucked things up and now we find ourselves on p99, back in time.

[Raavak]

Weren't Nagafen and Vox kicked out of CoV for considering to mate?
And of course VS is opposite CoV because of the whole sarnak warring with dragons thing.

[Sadiki]

I never thought CoV were evil. If anything, they're pretty good bros.

There's a subplot where Yelinak befriended a guy named Kragen Morshire, and he betrayed them, causing them to be wary of anyone else. It's to the point that he doesn't want you in Skyshrine unless you literally go kill his mortal enemy for him. I've never found this lore expanded upon.

[Dolalin]

Ethics are the pseudo-religious morals of people like Emmanuel Kant. Preachy and annoying, just like religious morals, but made even more insufferable by their supposed secular nature, as if they derive from natural law itself. They don't.

In short, kill everything.

[branamil]

The CoV believe in the superiority and domination of dragon kin. Their end goal is extermination of all non-dragons. So it’s moral to oppose them if you’re not a dragon.

Sub-plot: I think they should have put Illusion: Drake in the game.

[fastboy21]

Claws of Veeshan are the "good" dragons.

Ring of Scale are the bad dragons.

[Tobius]

Awesome replies my dudes.

RoS are obviously actively evil.

CoV, just because they oppose the evil RoS are a weird case. They are actively chill.... but they worship Veeshan who is pretty evil according to "word of god" game manuals and guides etc, there's a reason the other gods are scared of her and oppose her collectively, they aren't just jelly of her stats.

So if Veeshan were to come home and tell CoV to go kill everyone else, I'm sure they totally would... but is that justification for preemptively killing them now? What if it's safe to say we know she won't come back in even these dragons lifetimes... I dunno.

This all stems from a convo where my guildies advised me to kill a key mob in skyshrine for my alt rather than do the quest, but I'm ally with them on my main (who'd do the killing) and I'd feel like a treacherous dick.

I'd probably help the guild kill a big CoV dragon if it had sick loot but betraying a drake bro for nothing seems like a dirtbag move... I'm not a roleplayer but I can't bring myself to kill like coldains or frogloks who other players will kill despite being a paladin or whatever...

[Jimjam]

Mate ithink you can do a quest for the key too?

[knottyb0y]

Furthermore, Cabilis must be destroyed. The Rivervale Vanguard follows Decree IV of Article XIV of the Rivervale Constitution, which is that Rivervale must destroy her enemies both at home and abroad. Therefore, whenever the hobbit Council identifies a foreign threat, the Vanguard is fully sanctioned by Dear Leader Gubbin to dispose of that threat in its own home and to reap whatever platinum gains may be had, to bring the platinum gains back to Rivervale, and to increase the production of Jum.

The most important thing you can do, if you care about GOOD in Norrath, is to ally yourself with Gubbin and help in the conquest of all Norrath. We must unite the world beneath Gubbin. The hobbits will make you free!!

First of all this Halfling propaganda must be stopped! We who dwell in Cabilis thrive under the constant fear of execution and exile from our brethren. Consequence leads to a strong society where the weak are pushed out and the strong rule. Unlike those muffin eating fur foots with their "democratically elected mayor" whom has held his seat of power uncontested for years.

Concerning the Claws of Veeshan. Never forget what the Ring of Scale did to the mighty Sebilisian Empire! Nothing stops the Claws of Veeshan from repeating this tragedy. To have peace we must make war! Every lost life at the hand of the draconic menace can not be forgotten and can not be forgiven. Every time that vile Woushi slays an innocent traveler must be avenged. Yelinak is a liar and even now they prepare to strike at Norrath.

Claws of Veeshan are like cockroaches, it is always ethical to kill a pest. Slay these "isolationists" for the glory of the empire.

[loramin]

I'm not a roleplayer but I can't bring myself to kill like coldains or frogloks who other players will kill despite being a paladin or whatever...

I'm the same way. As a Shaman it felt like half of the recommended solo spots were killing good guards, but I could never bring myself to attack someone who wasn't attacking me (raid mobs aside). When I finally got to the point where I could kill Grobb guards I pretty much embarked on Troll genocide :D

Mate ithink you can do a quest for the key too?

This. IIRC anyone can do the quest even without help, as long as you're willing to eat a death (just invis to the giant, give him the item, get killed by the giants next to him for breaking invis, go back and get corpse).

[Jimjam]

Woushi being on the ring is great as it encourages giant factions toons to protect wakening lands from veeshan's forces.

[Skinned]

ITT: Palestinians are Frogloks.

[Wonkie]

all who deny bristlebane are my foes

[mickmoranis]

Similarly, the Frogloks want to take back their ancestral home using violence ... so basically they're like the Palestinian people: does that make them evil?

you answered your own question here ;)

[Xanthias]

Luclin has.. some kind of rationale, but all I remember is VT key PTSD.

Space Cats in search of Nip... and so so so much PTSD...

[Psionide]

First of all this Halfling propaganda must be stopped! We who dwell in Cabilis thrive under the constant fear of execution and exile from our brethren. Consequence leads to a strong society where the weak are pushed out and the strong rule. Unlike those muffin eating fur foots with their "democratically elected mayor" whom has held his seat of power uncontested for years.



I'm glad others are finally starting to see through the halfling propaganda! My own people have had our beautiful Nektulos forest invaded by these Jum addicted imperialists! Gubbin is effectively running a corrupt narco state.

[Neno]

Plus, of the remaining mobs that fight with each other, who's to say who is good or evil? Are the Trolls evil for defending their home? Sure they are primitive cannibals who conquered their home from other primitives, but so were some native peoples; did that make it ok for the Europeans to wipe them out?

Similarly, the Frogloks want to take back their ancestral home using violence ... so basically they're like the Palestinian people: does that make them evil?


Guk was originally the troll city.

The frogloks invaded Guk and kicked the trolls out. Grobb is what little remains of the old troll civilization and the frogloks are still committing genocide against the trolls.

[MagpieRockyl]

I'm glad others are finally starting to see through the halfling propaganda! My own people have had our beautiful Nektulos forest invaded by these Jum addicted imperialists! Gubbin is effectively running a corrupt narco state.

Fake. News.