Bard.. squishy

[Diogene]

I got one lvl21bard and one 19 cleric. Both share roughly the same HP’s and AC, and also defense skill. Both are logged in permafrost. Bard takes high damage hits while dmg mitigation on cleric is so much better. I just dont get it. What am I missing here ? Heck, bard got 600AC and cleric 580 and he’s two lvl’s under. I played both long enough to witness. Is there any special rule for bards being so squishy ? Btw bard agi is 100 and cleric 90.

[Legidias]

AGI means nothing once you have it over 75.

Are you using the slow on your bard? Largo's Melodic Binding will basically ensure your bard can endure more than cleric ever would at that lvl. (Its AE though, watch out).

Though, at 19 / 21, pretty much every class will look the same if they share same hp / ac. Skill caps on defense skills arent high enough. Castable debuffs (slow) will make much more difference than what class.

[Pyrion]

Shield can make a difference. I think a shield is not just it's AC, anybody correct me or fill in details who knows better.

[Troxx]

I suspect the difference you are noticing is purely anecdotal. Bard should more or less always defensively manage better than cleric. If gear is otherwise equal, though, a shield equipped on cleric (raw 1:1 ac on shield) can explain the difference.

[Legidias]

I mean, I tank HoT on mine but eh (given 60 and decent gear).

Some pieces of Thurg gear let me tank Seb at like 54 or 55 for min/max XP group too. Having basically the best snap / long lasting aggro helps.

[Legidias]

It was bard + cleric + 3 or 4 rogues for seb. continuous pulls with no downtime. Dont need to wait for assist ever either.

HoT is kinda eh on slows. They either land right away or not until mobs are already at like 40%.

[Borak]

It is only going to get worse the higher level you get. Bards are not good tanks and it really starts to shine like a sore thumb 35+

Not sure where this is coming from. It all depends on gear.

I was tanking in Seb at level 55 on my bard. I was wearing Mystic Koada'dal armor, which is pretty good but no planar armor at all (was leveling guildless at the time), and I was doing most of the duties, I was puller / tank / mezzer / slower / snarer for a group with cleric, 3 rogues and I forget the 6th guy.

OK, I will admit, there's less to tank when three freaking rogues are stab stab stabbing your mobs, but hey, you can tank with your own feeble slows, don't listen to the haters.

[Troxx]

It is only going to get worse the higher level you get. Bards are not good tanks and it really starts to shine like a sore thumb 35+

For raw aggro bards are second to none. From a raw tanking standpoint (damage intake) they are comparable to ranger defensively. When you factor in that a bard can preslow every target by 30-35% on top of absolute lock down ... bard actually does quite well.

They're not the ideal tank for hard content but they are perfectly serviceable for 99% of content a GROUP might need a tank for - and might even outperform knights or crappy geared warriors given early slow and 100% aggro lock.

55+ imagine a tank that could give the whole group mana regen > c2, hp regen 2x > best regen buff, hold aggro, and do knight level dps with single target drum dots. That, my friends, is a bard who is playing only to be a focused tank with perfect aggro + the side perks of superb regen. Few bards would think to play this way but if you're only there to function as a tank you're a knight (+) that adds extra value to group members. This requires the bard to not use weapons and just focus on songs that generate aggro, augment group, and deal single target damage.

But ... this requires the bard to know their song book, understand the role they're called to play, and focus on THAT role and ignore the other things they could do.

Bards actually make excellent tanks. Folks that would disagree fit into one of 3 categories:

(a) they play a bard and don't play well
(b) they've grouped with bad bard and are thus jaded
(c) failure to understand (or haven't bothered to consider) basic math

Most people would fall into groups b or c. Unless the group content requires warrior defensive disc, bards mathematically win out even though their defensive skills cap out at lower levels.

[Kich867]

I don't think this guy's thread is about bard tanking viability. I think that he's wondering why his character with more AC is regularly taking more damage than a character that is lower level with less AC.

The thread isn't very helpful without a log from the OP though. If this is the case, it would be interesting to see a few hours worth of damage intake on both classes, comparing max damage per hit and average damage per hit over the course of time.

[Troxx]

The real answer for bard vs cleric is simple.

-Bard 252 defense cleric 200
-Bard 155 dodge cleric 75
-Bard 75 parry cleric 0
-Bard 75 riposte cleric 0
-both plate classes
-ac returns after soft cap favors bard iirc

It’s really not complicated. The only factor that might favor cleric is the wearing of a shield ... which doesn’t really stack up with the downsides.

Clerics don’t take less damage.

[Legidias]

(bard intrinsically would take less dmg with slow too)

[Troxx]

/eyeroll

[Quizlop]

One thing that might make a difference is AC from gear vs displayed AC.

I might be wrong, but I believe AC from gear (and defense skill) is what actually affects how hard you are getting hit. The displayed AC factors in your Agility (which doesn't really do anything), so it's not the best indicator of how tanky you are.

So if the cleric has better AC armor equipped, they would probably take less damage most of the time, even if the displayed AC is similar.

If the cleric has a shield equipped it will allow them to go over worn AC soft cap, which might be a factor here as well

[Tnair]

Could be the bias of knowing that a hard hit on your bard is less easy to recover from, whereas on your cleric you shrug off that "argh" noise from a high-damage hit because you just heal yourself throughout the fight anyways.

Just bullshitting here though, I only play a rogue XD

[Jimjam]

Your cleric might have more spell ac, which is subject to a different stage of cap to worn.

Also, the greater defence skill of bard means more avoidance, which is lumped into displayed ac. Ergo if bard and cleric have same displayed ac that means the bard must have less mitigation ac. Work on your bards worn AC.

[Rygar]

I should clarify that the shield AC bonus is an unknown on P99. I haven't seen a definitive post showing that equipping a shield past the soft cap gives significant returns (i.e. effective returns via combat log parsing... cannot rely on just 'displayed AC' in your UI as it may not be accurate).

According to Demonstar55 (a very legitimate source for this type of information) the shield AC bonus came into play very late Luclin, almost PoP.

True, we use the Titanium client so it is possible this may be working, but we do not know if it was something the dev team needed to purposely enable or disable.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but shield AC bonus is just speculation at this point.

[Legidias]

Pretty much all AC is just speculation at this point

[Nunchucko]

Perhaps it is due to mob level? A lvl21 fighting a lvl20mob that cons blue is going to get smacked harder than a lvl19 fighting a lvl17 mob, regardless of AC. If all mobs fought are the same between both characters, please disregard.