Why are mages not more popular?

[Troxx]

I’ve been curious since my necro first hit level 53. New rogue pet.

I’ll start with a disclaimer: I parse everything. I like to know how I’m doing, what others are capable of, how individuals stack up compared to others of their class, and what I’m capable of when playing a similar class. I parse in real time with active display.

On getting my 53 rogue pet I was taken aback at the damage output. By itself it was doing more damage than most all other 50s melees I was grouped with. On parsing my epic monk and later my warrior 1-60 ... same deal. The pet alone was pulling more weight than all rangers/warriors/Druids/wizards ... all non-twinked monks and even most rogues. If you considered the dmg potential the necro casting added it was no contest.

Well I recently picked up my Mage. I’ve gone from 26-43 so far and it is no different. Properly summoned, buffed and hasted it simply does more damage then most melee for its level. I’ve parsed other mage’s 57 earth per at 60-65 sustained dps. 60 water pet higher... and epic pet well north of 80 sustained dps. This is pet alone mind you ... it doesn’t factor in the sustained dps or burst potential of the mage itself.

Mage (and to a lesser extent necro) seem to be seriously underrated. Why don’t we see more mages? Is it because their raid role and value are for boring tasks like twitching and rods? Is it because pets are unreliable on raids? For group content they just seem godly compared to alternative dps options.

I’m enjoying the mage so far and I haven’t even broken into the upper tiers of pets where the power curve takes off.

[Sadiki]

It's... booooring. I had a mage alt on live, and it was a nice fallback character to go solo with a pet that wrecked things. I never hit max level with him or anything, but I played him a bit.

However, on P99, classic mage is just a deathtrap. If I moved from classic to Kunark content in the mid levels, I could not solo down a blue con before going oom chain summoning pets, with all four focus items. Two mobs is insta-death unless you're twinked with root nets. Every solo camp in the game is taken 24/7, if you're trying to go that route.

They feel so underpowered with no utility, then on raids all they do is summon rods. I can understand why people don't want to play them.

[Supaskillz]

bring it on jibekn!

- a rogue

[Teppler]

They seem really boring and slow compared to my shaman. So much lack of tools.

When they get epic they get pretty strong as a duo class but still boring and there's still stronger duo's for the amount of time and effort it takes to get mage epic.

Necro in comparison gets a million more tools. Their pets aren't that different from non epic mage pets. FD, mana regen, healing, charming(significantly stronger than epic mage pets right?), rez, DD's, strong dots.

[Gozuk]

Yah lack of utility, boring raid class, people asking 850k+ for the Hate staff. Kinda disheartening to know you probably will never complete your epic. They are pretty damn strong in groups though. Those pets wreck.

Totally disagree with an epic Mage ever becoming boring though. Impossible

[Nycon43]

I leveled a mage to 35 here and the lack of tools compared to other classes, pet exp. penalty and pets being kinda meh on some raids just killed any desire to keep up with it. I got to 35 and just thought to myself "Why am I not just playing a necro?" and stopped heh.

[Troxx]

If I moved from classic to Kunark content in the mid levels, I could not solo down a blue con before going oom chain summoning pets.

You’re either shamelessly exaggerating or just plain bad. I’ve been in kunark for the last 8 levels and have had no problems chain soloing blues with no down time. I prefer to grab a random healer and duo but solo is no problem. At all. Honestly it’s some of the easiest exp I’ve experienced.

[Troxx]

I think Mage DPS is similar to the "knight problem" in that in group content they are fine and maybe even superior to their raid counterparts, but on raid mobs the pets are severely under leveled and do not hit as hard and miss a lot and regular melee start mauling them on DPS meters. Fighting a level 49 frog in Seb and a level 63 dragon are different, especially when your pet maxes out at like 48 or whatever and melee players will be level 60

So to answer your question its all about 'raid scene' and mages are not optimal in that environment.

I agree with you on leveling groups, Jibaber will consistently out DPS almost ever melee and that's not considering my 800 damage nukes I am blasting, but the level difference of raid targets is the great equalizer and the further you climb to 60 the worse your pet to level ratio will be.

Not sure if I am explaining myself correctly, hope this is clear

TLDR - Mage pets cap out at too low a level to be effective against dragons - Epic pet is probably the exception?

Fair statement. I figured as much.

What about the reports of epic mage pet parsing as high as endgame velious monks? Or is this a problem because many high end encounters have aoes that knock the pets out of the fight or having pets up cause problems with adds?

[Sadiki]

You’re either shamelessly exaggerating or just plain bad.
Or maybe you don't know what level I was or what I was killing. This isn't RnF, bucko, don't be a jerk to people who reply to you.

There are plenty of zones out there where the mobs would surprise you by how they can overpower a mage pet. I tend to roam instead of stick to boring static camps.

[Troxx]

Or maybe you don't know what level I was or what I was killing. This isn't RnF, bucko, don't be a jerk to people who reply to you.

There are plenty of zones out there where the mobs would surprise you by how they can overpower a mage pet. I tend to roam instead of stick to boring static camps.

Sorry but when you say you can’t solo a dark blue in mid level kunark even with chain summoning pets ... you have to clarify and explain that. I’m not trying to be a jerk but that quality of such a reply is just ... well ... a lie?

If you want to say mages are boring - ok.

Mage job during a raid blows? Sure.

Pets don’t work out on raids? Fine, makes sense.

But don’t say a mage can’t solo a dark blue in medium level kunark.

[Legidias]

Epic mage pet will out dps pretty much everyone on things that are annoying to hit, like dracoliche

[Triiz]

Because for the active players Enchanters can charm a mob that does more DPS than the mage pet and necro pet combined and has more HP than two or three extremely twinked tanks, not to mention slow/CC and a long list of other shit mages can't do.

For the player that wants to play a caster and AFK a lot, Necro's have them covered.

But mages can summon those sweet Ultravision Ammo slot items, they got that going for them. I love those things.

[applesauce25r624]

If you enjoy it, play it.
There's no 40-man roster limits on this game.
Epic mage sounds like one of the most fun things you can use to steamroll mid level mobs

[coolget]

Epic mage pet will out dps pretty much everyone on things that are annoying to hit, like dracoliche

yea ST dragons were also great for epic mage pets

i think they were doing over double the DPS of our primal melees against ventani on red

[kjs86z]

Because you don't want your raid leaders asking you to pet track for hours upon hours at a time.

[enjchanter]

But mages can summon those sweet Ultravision Ammo slot items, they got that going for them. I love those things.

+10000

[Jimjam]

I’ve been curious since my necro first hit level 53. New rogue pet.

I’ll start with a disclaimer: I parse everything. I like to know how I’m doing, what others are capable of, how individuals stack up compared to others of their class, and what I’m capable of when playing a similar class. I parse in real time with active display.

On getting my 53 rogue pet I was taken aback at the damage output. By itself it was doing more damage than most all other 50s melees I was grouped with. On parsing my epic monk and later my warrior 1-60 ... same deal. The pet alone was pulling more weight than all rangers/warriors/Druids/wizards ... all non-twinked monks and even most rogues. If you considered the dmg potential the necro casting added it was no contest.

Well I recently picked up my Mage. I’ve gone from 26-43 so far and it is no different. Properly summoned, buffed and hasted it simply does more damage then most melee for its level. I’ve parsed other mage’s 57 earth per at 60-65 sustained dps. 60 water pet higher... and epic pet well north of 80 sustained dps. This is pet alone mind you ... it doesn’t factor in the sustained dps or burst potential of the mage itself.

Mage (and to a lesser extent necro) seem to be seriously underrated. Why don’t we see more mages? Is it because their raid role and value are for boring tasks like twitching and rods? Is it because pets are unreliable on raids? For group content they just seem godly compared to alternative dps options.

I’m enjoying the mage so far and I haven’t even broken into the upper tiers of pets where the power curve takes off.

Netflix and sending pet in at 40%.

[Jauna]

For me before and a little bit after making a mage was Spell Research. Mage pet spells were way more expensive than necro. And the way mage research was handled like needing a previous tier pet scroll for the next tier pet scroll.

Also new spells being trivial way beyond your level restricted max skill was crap.

Then I said fuck it, ported on my druid for like an hour and spent hours in EC looking for said spells.

[enjchanter]

Honestly though, I do agree mages are very undervalued. I think mainly its another case of people not utilizing their class to it max potential (Which is a pet peeve of mine).

A mage can be am awesome support class. Expendable tanks , burst dps to kill off adds, rods if used intelligently, passive Damage shield dps , and being able to summon my warrior some arrows instantly makes the group so much more fun since I never remember to buy arrows, and mages also come equip with a rogue pet (sustained dps from a caster whattttt?!).

You can't argue that in these velious days where dragons love aoe dmg that mage pets all that great for the raid scene but just be honest with yourself whether you play to raid or play to do fun group content.

Also, despite whatever game I play there's 2 things I absolutely love and that's having a big bad pet follow me around and being able to make monsters fight each other.
This thread makes me want to start leveling my mage again.

[Foxplay]

I can think of a lot of reasons but they apply to different aspects of the game, so each player would select these reasons from a list as to why they didn't pick the class

Boring Raid role: Make mod rods - CoTH ppl, watch netflix

Lack of scaling / endgame gearing: Like most Int casters you get a bigger mana pool, maybe some FT items if your a lucky one, but most players should know that velious raiding gear is a lot better for melee than it is for casters... not saying a well geared mage is nothing... but I think everyone can agree a super well geared (velious raid geared) Monk or rogue is going to run circles around a mage... this is just due to how silly good raid weapons and armor get as well as the level difference and crazy high resists the raid geared melee will have.

Difficult to attain Epic: Either horrendously expensive (800k+ ? 1million?) for earth staff MQ, not saying its unattainable, but for some players that don't put a serious commitment into farming plane of hate or some serious serious plat to get a MQ it sorta is unattainable for some players *a lot of players just have no desire to farm plat for a entire year+ assuming they make 2-3k plat a day and play every day* to get part of their epic, despite being a super neck-beard server ppl still have lives. Granted just because you cant or are unwilling to get epic wont rule the class out for every player, I'm sure there are plenty of people on p99 playing mage that have no plans getting their epic... however it is still a bit of a sour pill to swallow...

Good Solo but nowhere near the best: Can mages solo? Absolutely... but even at their best (epic + gear) they are still well well behind other classes > Enchanter / Shaman / Necromancer / Druid.

Grouping: Mages essentially fill a melee role in groups, with the added benefit or some spike damage (from their nukes) and a damage shield on tank (which value is highly negated if the enemies get slowed). Their scaling never really comes much into question in this content.

Not fully "Twinkable": Like other casters you cant really twink them like you can melee... Yea you can get them a super high mana pool, but that's about it. Melee can use weapons and armor at low levels that are well above and beyond their level.

[mr_jon3s]

Mages are only good with focus's and AA's. Both are things that wont be on this server so its pretty much a useless class.

[Vormotus]

I was beginning to wonder about that too.

I have seen a considerable lack of mages on my newbie zones, with most people, perhaps due to the server, mostly choosing clerics, shamans, enchanters and bards.

I remember everyone being a mage in Live or having at least one mage alt.

Wizards are kinda rare too from what I have seen these few weeks.

[branamil]

Can’t use pet on 99% of raids. Kinda boring. Can be kind of convenient to farm low level stuff with the pet, but you can’t solo any of the big ticket items in dungeons like enchanters and necros can.

[Nexii]

I guess it's because the class isn't that exciting. It's certainly not that mages are bad even at endgame they are crucial for raiding.

[Qtip]

Seafury nerf killed the mage class. Use to be the go to cash class. Now everyone rolls a druid and ports.

[Yoink1986]

What raids do you do branamil..I use my epic pet on a lot of raids.that 99% comment is definitely wrong ��

[Izmael]

There aren't many mages because
- Being a raiding mage is arguably even worse than being an enchanter
- Interesting groups don't want a mage because most mages are noobs, lack good pet control, and will wipe the group out / break mez / ninja afk to beat off to goblin pron
- a mage's solo abilities hit a pretty solid ceiling post 50, especially in dungeons, and that's where most cool spots are
- getting epic on blue without being an autist is nearly impossible

But it is a great newbie class since you can always dash for the zone line if your pet is low and the fight seems lost.

[Troxx]

-There are many classes (ie most) that can’t solo big ticket items.
-A majority of p99 players don’t currently and won’t ever raid competitively.

I guess it just doesn’t make sense that a class which is so potent (arguably overpowered) at the group level of the game is so under-represented. A properly buffed mage pet in the 50s + a mage chain clicking burnt wood clicky is easily 80 sustained dps. Toss in damage shield and the odd actual spell cast DD and you’ve got a class (caster + pet) that has a damage potential beyond most 55+ epic rogues.

Boring to play? I suppose, but that’s pretty subjective. I mean ... isn’t autoattacking and clicking backstab/flyingkick also boring? People seem perfectly content to mind-numbingly do that for hours on end.

[skipdog]

I guess it just doesn’t make sense that a class which is so potent (arguably overpowered) at the group level of the game is so under-represented.

I'd say part of it has to do with the fact that being an incredibly potent group member has little actual value. Groups need a tank, a healer and some DPS. One of those DPS members being a mage doesn't really change a whole lot. Most groups are limited by the number of spawns available, not the amount of DPS being dealt. Can a group get by with 1 or 2 less DPS players if they have a mage and get a tiny bit more xp/hour? Probably, but it rarely happens. Most groups just want to fill up. There isn't a lot of valuable group content that requires an incredibly optimized group composition to be able to function effectively.

[Nexii]

I think a lot of it too is that mage/wizard are really similar thematically. So you have about half of each than if they'd been rolled into one class.

[Pope Hat]

For me it's the lack of utility. I really like pets but they get old pretty fast. Also how are you supposed to handle more than 1 mob at a time while solo? Without clickies like root nets. I got mine to like 24 and then stopped.

[StoneyOneKenobi]

Can confirm, soloing 50+ as a Mage sucks bad. If you pull more than 1 mob, you're basically screwed without root nets. Not to mention the xp penalty if you don't out-damage your pet (or kill it before the mob dies).

Mages are an incredibly focused class and offer a small amount of utility (malos, DS, summoned crap, dispell, COTHs) but the lack of any type of root or snare is tough. Literally every other casting class, including hybrids, get either a root or snare or both.

[Izmael]

For me it's the lack of utility. I really like pets but they get old pretty fast. Also how are you supposed to handle more than 1 mob at a time while solo? Without clickies like root nets. I got mine to like 24 and then stopped.

If you can not kill both mobs, you have to get somewhat creative, like helping the pet to kill one mob by nuking it down, gating/zoning, coming back, pulling 2nd mob.

Basically it sucks ass to not have any CC beside your pet and root nets.

There's one thing a mage excels at, post 50: farming low-mid levels camps. You don't need to worry about anything, just keep the pet /guard'ed at the mob's spawn, work on something productive on the side, and check the game window once every 10 minutes or whatever to see if the named has died.

[wooseon]

epic is hard

[Pope Hat]

If you can not kill both mobs, you have to get somewhat creative, like helping the pet to kill one mob by nuking it down, gating/zoning, coming back, pulling 2nd mob.

Basically it sucks ass to not have any CC beside your pet and root nets.

There's one thing a mage excels at, post 50: farming low-mid levels camps. You don't need to worry about anything, just keep the pet /guard'ed at the mob's spawn, work on something productive on the side, and check the game window once every 10 minutes or whatever to see if the named has died.

I haven't played in a while but I remember when I got 2 trying to burn one down so that I am only left with the one, but the mob I am ignoring would always aggro me after I nuke the other. So that rarely worked for me. Good on low hp mobs, however.
I like the gate/zone and come back idea. I haven't played him in like..4 years? All this talk makes me want to pick him back up.

[bomaroast]

No root or snare, just the pet. No utility other than summoning arrows/daggers and CotH. No mana regen. Very little health regen. All of this equates to very boring and very squishy. And to top it off: it's a low utility dps class, that is out damaged by almost all the other dps classes.

[Jimjam]

If you can not kill both mobs, you have to get somewhat creative, like helping the pet to kill one mob by nuking it down, gating/zoning, coming back, pulling 2nd mob.

Basically it sucks ass to not have any CC beside your pet and root nets.

There's one thing a mage excels at, post 50: farming low-mid levels camps. You don't need to worry about anything, just keep the pet /guard'ed at the mob's spawn, work on something productive on the side, and check the game window once every 10 minutes or whatever to see if the named has died.

Just break camp on a geared 60 then switch to the toon you want to xp on... Doesn't everyone do this?

[bomaroast]

Just break camp on a geared 60 then switch to the toon you want to xp on... Doesn't everyone do this?

Wipe it clean!

[Kubaton]

Magi = are never played to their full potential. It requires a lot of work pet controlling and belling casting to lower resists - most people are super lazy and or too scared to belly cast. Pet position increases damage. Especially with the rogue pet.

Magi = Epic bottle neck still exists on P99 - sickly overpriced quest items. Live corrected the biggest problem by moving the Earth Staff to a "a forsaken revenant (male)" spawn in PoH that would have % chance of staff. This happened before the release of Velious. (On live: Sky crown was typically 8-10kp, Staff was around 20-30kp after changes). I dont remember what they did after PoH revamp as I moved on to higher things by then on live.

Magi= lvl55+ has serious mana regen issues. big time suck - might as well play a cleric if you're going to be sitting on your poo generator so much.

Overall, Magicians became a rare commodity on live - many lost interest in playing due to the mana regen issues and crap Raid Event dps. Resists were VERY high against Magicians in Velious - super frustrating. Guilding and keeping a CoH Magi on live was a big challenge.

[Izmael]

Mage gets a little more interesting when epic'd. You can duo some fun stuff with a cleric (WW dragons...). But, honestly, even that gets boring quickly in my experience.

The class is just way too one-dimensional and straightforward. But man was it good for farming a truck load of beads and alliance necks. After these two camps got nerfed, I pretty much shelved the mage and played classes that have actually useful spells.

[Bummey]

Magi = are never played to their full potential. It requires a lot of work pet controlling and belling casting to lower resists - most people are super lazy and or too scared to belly cast. Pet position increases damage. Especially with the rogue pet.

Magi = Epic bottle neck still exists on P99 - sickly overpriced quest items. Live corrected the biggest problem by moving the Earth Staff to a "a forsaken revenant (male)" spawn in PoH that would have % chance of staff. This happened before the release of Velious.

Actually controlling your pet is beyond most magicians. You know a good magician when they correctly position their pet on every fight, during enrage, and for pushing casters. Rarely see that.

Find us some fucking evidence of this. Help fix this horrible, horrible bottleneck. Not that it'll matter, as 'Fixed, pending update' is no guarantee we'll see it. (appreciate all the work of the devs and admins, etc. some fixes should be added asap instead of bundled with the next patch)

[Sage Truthbearer]

Mages are super underrated in group settings. I have a 50s Mage and I don't think any KC groups realize how much sustained damage my focused water pet does, and yes I do position him every fight.

[Nexii]

Mage are severely underrated even on endgame boss encounters. Your epic pet will be 45-60 DPS, which is less than a rogue but still respectable. Somewhere around an average geared ranger/monk/warrior. Depends some on the boss.

The thing is though they are worth about 1 cleric each on top of their DPS by making mod rods. They're very efficient at ~180 mage mana to give 150 to a cleric. Yes while you need X clerics to CH fast enough for a given encounter, time to OOM is what ultimately matters.

[bomaroast]

Positioning pets is a tanks duty.

[Bummey]

2-3 mages can make or break an engage like Tunare or AoW. We finish tunare with 70-80% mana on our clerics because while we are prepping for tunare. Mages are dropping hundreds of rods.

Same with AoW, i've finished an AoW fight with 60% mana because of beautiful mages.

Mages are vital to success on p99 for some encounters, dont count them out!



You're not wrong. Same goes for necros. Their mana abilities (rods, twitch) are absolutely vital to raid performance and longevity. And it's boring as sin. That's exactly why they're not more popular. It's a thankless and tedious job. All the tools at your disposal and you're relegated to the role of glorified vending machine.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. We wouldn't be here if we didn't, right? But Verant kinda fucked casters when it comes to raiding roles and duties.

[Bummey]

classic eq raiding was poorly designed in many respects

[Nagoya]

do you think they were really designed, and not just happy accidents?

[jolanar]

Mages and wizards share too much design space for both/either of them to be that powerful. You could combine them into one class and remove a couple of key spells like root/snare spells and you'd be good to go honestly.

[BarnabusCollins]

need mages for coth for raids.