Chanter top slot discussion: swap or CC?!

[Tecmos Deception]

Mostly because I didn't know top slot refreshed differently from clickies than the other slots until after I'd already been playing a chanter on p99 for multiple years, an ... lol, just finished camping out even though charm broke while I was typing because my pet didn't get through my runes to cause me to stand up before camping finished...

Anyways... I don't use top slot as a swap. I've been considering it, basically by reversing the order of spells that I've always used in slots so that my top 1 is always a swap, #2 is often a swap, on down to my stuns and CC in the bottom. I'm sure I could get used to it in a week or two, especially since I'm still a bit out of a groove from my recent break anyway.

Buuuut it scares me to be playing without instantly-refreshed mesmerize/mesmerization. What do you top-slot-swap guys do when you're trying to get a charm break under control and one of the mobs resists your AE mez? Do you actually manage to reselect to the correct target and then cast a single-target mez before stun fades and it starts interrupting your casts? Do you just hope you have a stun off cooldown (I've taken to using flux-slant as a 1-2 punch on charm breaks to improve my chances of getting that first stun off without an interrupt during my time in POM, so I wouldn't have a stun ready in this situation usually)?

I (kind of) want to change, but change is scary!

[skarlorn]

Love the rejuvenated Tecmos energy lol

I've been an ignorant scrub all the way to 56 apparently, using my top slot as a swap slot or for the non-rune damage absorb buff while soloing.

I think i'm going to change it up now and put my mez in the top slot because i HATE - hate HATE getting punched during that 1 or 2 second downtime on the spell gem.

I tend to use slot 8 as my other swap slot for some reason

[Baylan295]

Mostly because I didn't know top slot refreshed differently from clickies than the other slots until after I'd already been playing a chanter on p99 for multiple years, an ... lol, just finished camping out even though charm broke while I was typing because my pet didn't get through my runes to cause me to stand up before camping finished...

Anyways... I don't use top slot as a swap. I've been considering it, basically by reversing the order of spells that I've always used in slots so that my top 1 is always a swap, #2 is often a swap, on down to my stuns and CC in the bottom. I'm sure I could get used to it in a week or two, especially since I'm still a bit out of a groove from my recent break anyway.

Buuuut it scares me to be playing without instantly-refreshed mesmerize/mesmerization. What do you top-slot-swap guys do when you're trying to get a charm break under control and one of the mobs resists your AE mez? Do you actually manage to reselect to the correct target and then cast a single-target mez before stun fades and it starts interrupting your casts? Do you just hope you have a stun off cooldown (I've taken to using flux-slant as a 1-2 punch on charm breaks to improve my chances of getting that first stun off without an interrupt during my time in POM, so I wouldn't have a stun ready in this situation usually)?

I (kind of) want to change, but change is scary!

My instinct is that except for in limited circumstances, the value of a top slot swap is comparatively low versus CC (whether Mez, or Root). My thought process is this: rare is the circumstance that I think “OMG I really needed: 1) rune, 2) berserker spirit, 3) charm, 4) nuke, 5) anything else” up and I don’t already have it. Spells that are swapped are not in your lineup because you typically have the time to remem them when needed. On the other hand, I have died so many times because I haven’t been able to get CC off for any number of reasons. I use slot 1 root, and maybe it’s worth a conversation about moving Mez, or aoe Mez to that slot, but I can’t imagine using it as a swap slot on the regular.

[Tecmos Deception]

Root is what I rocked in 1 while leveling, cause being able to fire it off quickly on multiple mobs was fantastic. Once dealing with summoners, and especially since the summon and root resist changes, I hardly ever root unless I know everything is sub-51. I either put level 4 mez or level 16 aoe mez in #1 usually, depending on where I am, the other in #2, and either fetter or rapture or a stun in #3.

1 for swap does have some utility besides convenience I think. Calming a big room of higher stuff where too many resists (not crits though) doesn't give you much time to get through it or something? Top slot calm. Twenty Two annihilating your little Brenn because forlorn deeds is getting resisted? Top slow slow. Starting a pull and you need to tash and slow asap but also want to get bedlam and charm loaded again asap in case of an early break? Top slot saves you several seconds on bedlam iirc. Stuff like that.

But yeah, I'm not convinced yet that that stuff is more important than being able to get off a mesmerize after the first one resists, but before slant wears off.

[Triiz]

You wont regret going swap slot top slot once you get used to it. The hard part will be getting used to it, I don't think I could change my spell lineup after having it the same for so long without dying multiple times due to the changes.

I'm not great at putting playing EQ strategy into words but there's not really a one size fits all solution to "what do you do if AOE mez resists". If you're fighting somewhere where AOE mez resists are a big problem can easily load a 3rd stun once you're using top slot as swap slot and completely eliminate any risk you wont have a stun ready.

I'm also a fan of the Color Flux/Slant combo on charm breaks but I've never died because I fired off those 2 stuns and was using top slot as a swap slot.




1 for swap does have some utility besides convenience I think. Calming a big room of higher stuff where too many resists (not crits though) doesn't give you much time to get through it or something? Top slot calm. Twenty Two annihilating your little Brenn because forlorn deeds is getting resisted? Top slow slow. Starting a pull and you need to tash and slow asap but also want to get bedlam and charm loaded again asap in case of an early break? Top slot saves you several seconds on bedlam iirc. Stuff like that.


^This shit doesn't sound very clutch when it's written out, but it adds up. There are a lot of examples but one big time saver - A mob is mez'd with 12ish seconds left on mez. That is plenty of time to mem and land a tash/allure without having to re-mez costing you another 24 seconds if your new pet isn't mez'd on top of the other mobs you want it to fight.


Bedlam can be cast in 9 seconds instead of 12, 3 seconds doesn't seem like a lot but that's a 25% recast time reduction and it adds up when you are constantly re-meming the spell. Lull and Calm can both be recast 50% faster. Plus all the spells you can mem and cast instantly, Charms/Slows/Most buffs.

[enjchanter]

Tecmos if you want I'll link you some solo videos and show you why this is worth breaking the habit

Not to say your method is ineffective but maybe seeing it being actively applied might be interesting to you.

I'm at work and on mobile so I'll expound tonight but your one slot is the ultimate swap you will save an eternity of time swapping your spells there , long cooldowns are shorter and regular spells cast instantly , I use 1 and 2 as fluid swaps and I use 4 6 and 8 as what I consider "hard swaps"
4 is 99% of the time charm , 6 is 99% blanket and 8 is 99% skew, I call these hard swaps because I only swap these in a very situational encounter where I need more than 2 random spells up (junking a pet, pulling a mob I need to rapture etc)
But as far as 1 and 2 ? I'll swap these so frequently that id swap slot one to cast feedback on a newb mid fight. The speed is incredible

If a mob resists fascination by chance (rare) then I just go right into skew and hit an again or go straight into recharm.

Stay runed, my friends.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm also a fan of the Color Flux/Slant combo on charm breaks but I've never died because I fired off those 2 stuns and was using top slot as a swap slot.

For real? How? Lol. Getting a flux resisted when dealing with a 51+ hasted, dual-wielding charm break is like my #1 cause of death. I regularly will get pushed or bashed enough that I can't get off slant (let alone a mez) before I die. Even a non-hasted pet, usually stuff in east since some pets in there manage the nameds if you just give them a torch and are quick on slowing the named, can get lucky and interrupt me a time or two resulting in a death. Maybe I need to try to figure out how to have my back to a wall/corner more often.

[Triiz]

For real? How? Lol. Getting a flux resisted when dealing with a 51+ hasted, dual-wielding charm break is like my #1 cause of death. I regularly will get pushed or bashed enough that I can't get off slant (let alone a mez) before I die. Even a non-hasted pet, usually stuff in east since some pets in there manage the nameds if you just give them a torch and are quick on slowing the named, can get lucky and interrupt me a time or two resulting in a death. Maybe I need to try to figure out how to have my back to a wall/corner more often.

I didn't mean I've never died from stun resists, definitely have, just that I've never died from using stuns where I would have lived if I had AOE mez in top slot. Like you said if you can't get a 1.5 second cast stun off you definitely can't get off a 2.5 sec - 3 sec cast time mez.

I do try to stand in corners or at least against a wall whenever possible, but doesn't matter if you're getting summoned to a spot away from the walls.

[Tecmos Deception]

I didn't mean I've never died from stun resists, definitely have, just that I've never died from using stuns where I would have lived if I had AOE mez in top slot. Like you said if you can't get a 1.5 second cast stun off you definitely can't get off a 2.5 sec - 3 sec cast time mez.

I do try to stand in corners or at least against a wall whenever possible, but doesn't matter if you're getting summoned to a spot away from the walls.

Err, I didn't say what I meant to. Yes, if stuns get resisted (or even one of them, sometimes), then it's often too late for a mez to work anyway. I meant to address if stuns stick but mez resists, which doesn't happen a lot but can happen. Either mez in first slot can be cast a second time before slant fades, though mesmerization cuts it close.

Mmmm. I don't know. Maybe I'll try it just to see how it goes. I guess I still can try both ae and normal mez when they're not in top slot and only be risking the (hopefully slowed) other thing having a little better chance of disrupting the mez since ae is longer cast than a 2nd lvl 4 one.

[Triiz]

Err, I didn't say what I meant to. Yes, if stuns get resisted (or even one of them, sometimes), then it's often too late for a mez to work anyway. I meant to address if stuns stick but mez resists, which doesn't happen a lot but can happen. Either mez in first slot can be cast a second time before slant fades, though mesmerization cuts it close.

Mmmm. I don't know. Maybe I'll try it just to see how it goes. I guess I still can try both ae and normal mez when they're not in top slot and only be risking the (hopefully slowed) other thing having a little better chance of disrupting the mez since ae is longer cast than a 2nd lvl 4 one.

Like I said I'm pretty bad at explaining shit. If I'm fighting mobs that have a high chance of resisting AOE mez/stuns like East I keep a 3rd stun loaded, so there is always a stun ready incase of resist. 3 stuns is only practical if you don't mind only having 1 swap slot, which I don't mind.

If it's only pet + 1 mob he's fighting and you only have 2 stuns up, Flux>Slant>AOE mez>mob resists>you can still instantly cast single target mez before Slant wears off even if it's not in the top slot. If both the pet and the mob resist AOE mez and you only single target mez one I guess you'd be dead if you didn't have a 3rd stun loaded, pretty sure that's never happened to me and I not had a 3rd stun ready though. 3rd stun can be a live safer in other ways, like if Flux lands then Slant gets resisted against a hasted/DWing pet and you don't have time to cast a mez.

[Tecmos Deception]

Like I said I'm pretty bad at explaining shit. If I'm fighting mobs that have a high chance of resisting AOE mez/stuns like East I keep a 3rd stun loaded, so there is always a stun ready incase of resist. 3 stuns is only practical if you don't mind only having 1 swap slot, which I don't mind.

If it's only pet + 1 mob he's fighting and you only have 2 stuns up, Flux>Slant>AOE mez>mob resists>you can still instantly cast single target mez before Slant wears off even if it's not in the top slot. If both the pet and the mob resist AOE mez and you only single target mez one I guess you'd be dead if you didn't have a 3rd stun loaded, pretty sure that's never happened to me and I not had a 3rd stun ready though. 3rd stun can be a live safer in other ways, like if Flux lands then Slant gets resisted against a hasted/DWing pet and you don't have time to cast a mez.

Ok, yeah, that's what I was slowly figuring out as I was typing up my last post. Cool stuff. I'll have to try it when I get fed up with doing the mail quest on my new ALS chanter.

[Quinas]

I do CC in top slot, swap in 8th slot. But I am convinced that there is value in changing to top slot swap, in terms of overall time saving.

I think it's ultimately a risk adversion/safety issues vs efficiency/time saving thing.

[Tecmos Deception]

Play it fluidly?

I'll often top slot chloroblast on a shaman over cannabalise for where I need burst hp/sec. Same deal with some other spells. Canna is what I consider a hard slot, but when the situation is there why hamstring myself?

There's this on the one hand. And there's also "I don't even need to think about what buttons to push because I'm so used to them being in the same spot all the time" on the other. It's not perfectly clear which one is a better way to organize your play, hence a thread like this.

[Splade]

There's this on the one hand. And there's also "I don't even need to think about what buttons to push because I'm so used to them being in the same spot all the time" on the other. It's not perfectly clear which one is a better way to organize your play, hence a thread like this.

So, I've been trying this top slot swapping instead of CC since I saw this thread yesterday... I will say, it is faster and more convenient and I do still mainly keep CC there. It's only gotten me killed once, I was breaking a room with lull in top slot to make it go faster and I got unlucky with a crit on the first lull and fat fingered the shit out of everything thereafter. Idk... theres definitely pros and cons to each. When im using my top slot for swapping im uncomfortable not being able to fire CC off at the drop of a hat but it does make it a lot easier to toss buffs up in the middle of a fight or fire off a slow. I'll have to play around with it a bit more but im 50/50 on it right now

[Triiz]

When im using my top slot for swapping im uncomfortable not being able to fire CC off at the drop of a hat but it does make it a lot easier to toss buffs up in the middle of a fight or fire off a slow. I'll have to play around with it a bit more but im 50/50 on it right now

Maybe keep the same hotkey. I.e. if you use hotkey 1 for AOE mez now while it's in spell slot 1, keep AOE mez as hotkey 1 while its in spell slot 4.

To reiterate what I said yesterday for anyone else considering top slot swap slot, if you have Lull in top slot and get a crit resist you can still clicky>instantly cast AOE mez or any of the other 7 spell slots. You just can't cast AOE mez>clicky>AOE mez if it's not in top slot. The spell gem will still be depressed, but it will cast.

[derjen]

Would anyone mind explaining how the clickies affect the first spell gem differently?

[Malory Archer]

Would anyone mind explaining how the clickies affect the first spell gem differently?

Basically, the clicky resets your global cooldown, but you still have to wait for the individual cooldown of the spell, the primary spell gem just refreshes that individual cooldown faster than the others so you can spam the same spell faster than you would be able to on another gem.

[Splade]

Would anyone mind explaining how the clickies affect the first spell gem differently?

I'm not sure of the logistics behind it but the top slot refreshes instantly on spells that you have either just mem'd or just cast. If you mem a spell in 2-8 even if you hit your clicky you still have to wait to cast it. There's only a few exceptions that I've found to top slot refreshing instantly and that's generally spells with a long cooldown

[Triiz]

Top slot + clicky doesn't eliminate the recast time, it just allows you to start casting before the recast time is up. The recast time has to be over by the time the spell finishes casting or you will get a fail message.

For a spell like Forlorn Deeds, it has a 2.25 sec recast with a 6 second cast. You can mem it in top slot, clicky, and instantly start casting it since the cast time is longer than the recast time it will succeed. In case of multiple mobs or a resist, you can also chain cast it. Cast Forlorn Deeds>Mob Resists>Clicky>cast Forlorn Deeds without waiting the 2.25 seconds between casts.

If the cast time is shorter than the recast time, Theft of Thought for example, you can't successfully cast it instantly after you mem it. Theft of Thought has a 120 second recast with a 2 second cast time so you'd have to wait 118.1 seconds to cast it, even though the spell gem will look like it's ready to cast.

If you have Forlorn Deeds in slot 2 you have to wait 2.25 seconds after you mem it to start casting. If you cast it and get a resist, you have to wait 2.25 seconds to start casting it again. Like I said before, it doesn't sound like much but it adds up.