ZEMs Should Be Revised to Make Dungeons More Rewarding

[loramin]

I recently came across this Producer's Letter from 2001 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html). One interesting thing it mentioned was the addition of a grouping XP bonus (which would imply that groups shouldn't have gotten a bonus pre-Velious).

It also mentioned:

In this case, we decided that the most appropriate action for several underutilized dungeons would be to increase the ZEM; that is, increase the amount of experience that everyone gets when adventuring in the zone.

As of the next patch, you will receive additional experience (per kill) in the following zones:


Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%


Now I know Project 1999 ZEMs aren't classic, but it could still have an equivalent "not exactly classic, but classic in spirit" improvement to the ZEMs of the less popular (on P99) dungeons.

It'd be even better (classic-er?) if the list of zones affected, and how much their ZEM was improved (but not their original ZEM values), could be published.. The reason for this is that if the player base reads that the ZEM in dungeon X went up, far more players will visit dungeon X than if it has its ZEM changed silently ... and clearly the intent of the original developer letter was to drive as many players as possible towards under-used zones.

[Rygar]

You are infringing on my ClassicQuest Loramin, I was researching this same thing!

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822064136/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc27.shtml

Zone Modifers
carmageddon wrote:

[Quote from original post: ”We all know what zones are gonna be upped exp wise ( it still isnt gonna make anyone go to kerra isle or eruds crossing though) but are any zones gonna get xp modifier decreased? Much of what you add does have a downside that always isnt announced. Like yep the hybrids will lose more exp on death then before. Please tell us ahead of time yes or no, whether popular spots like lake of ill omen might get modifier downgrades too. Thank you.”]

No, we are not reducing the zone experience modifier in any zones. And, well, we did announce that hybrids will be losing more experience on death… (of course now I need to explain that they will also be gaining experience at a faster rate that offsets that increase in death penalty, so that it won’t be taken out of context).


About Paw
In our campaign to make some areas more appealing, we have increased the experience modifier in Guk Top as well as all the others previously mentioned. Experience in that zone will be increased by about 12%.

Also, we’ve made some small changes to Paw that will make it much more player friendly. You’ll have to check it out to see exactly what was changed, but we think you’ll like it.

(heh, note the subtle attempt to convince the players to go to Paw and look at it! I’m so sneaky.)

- While not mentioned in the Producer's Letter, the Zone Experience Modifier has also been increased in Guk (guktop), by roughly 12%.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822065003/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc28.shtml
Well, before launching new servers we're going continue to analyze where players are at, what zones are crowded, and what zones are underused. Significant experience bonuses are going in next patch for underused zones (mostly dungeons).

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822111754/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc76.shtml
Skyfires & Coin Looting
As I commented in another thread today, coin loot is indeed lighter for many areas of the game. Skyfire included.

In other zones, the "big" outdoor critters are an exception to other things in the zone, allowing for more loot to be handed out since there are less of them to go around. However in Skyfire, *everything* is pretty nasty, with those encounters being the rule rather than the exception. Many groups can hunt there nonstop and never run out of things to kill. Given that, they just can't drop the 10-30pp per kill of other encounters.

As for the XP, the mobs in Skyfire give more experience than mobs of a relative level in any other outdoor zone in the world.

I think the lesson here is the EQ team evaluated under-utilized dungeons and adjusted the ZEM accordingly to entice people to exp elsewhere (although they did NOT decrease ZEM in over-populated areas). So while these values may not necessarily be made to match P99, they could reflect current P99 conditions.

[Rygar]

Also, I did uncover some details on the group XP bonus, here they are... suggests they were improved further in Velious but I need to find more info on those details (they said they would announce the details, not sure if it got pushed back to Luclin?):

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822123451/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc87.shtml

Does Grouping Give You an EXP Bonus?

There is both an XP bonus assigned per kill based upon the number of people in your party, and it is also expected that you can take more critters in the same amount of time in excess of what you could do solo.
For instance, if a solo person can kill 1 blue mob every 2 minutes, then a group of two might be able to do 3 in that same amount of time, yielding 50% (plus the bonus) more experience per person per time unit.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822065003/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc28.shtml
After a long meeting that started before lunch and ended just now (we did break to eat, though), here's what we're going to try out short-term:

1. Increase the grouping experience bonus significantly. It's currently 2% for each group member other than yourself. When it's finalized and about to go live, we will release the actual percentages.

2. Increase the experience modifier for underutilized Old World and Kunark dungeons. We will post the percentage by which these dungeons were increased when this data goes live.

3. Place more bind spots in the Old World and Kunark (we decided to try this as opposed to more teleports). These will most likely be placed somewhat near to dungeons we consider underutilized.

Realistically, these changes will probably go live not this patch (hey, it's tonight/tomorrow), but rather the next one.

More longer term, we are doing to randomize loot, re-path, and even totally revamp some Old World dungeons.

-Brad


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#search/research/160e6f075937a784
Two Questions
[Quote from original post: The new experience changes are great.

Just raises a few questions in my mind though.

1) I know that before the patch, race/class experience penalties were distributed across the group. Was this the same for race/class bonuses?

From what I understand, all class-based penalties are effectively eliminated, and race-based penalties are now felt only by the character, not by the group.

Which leads to the next question...

2) If the answer to 1) is yes, are race bonuses, and the bonuses for Warriors and Rogues, now enjoyed solely by the character, when grouped?]

The answer to both questions, in short, is yes.

Just showing that changes took place and there was indeed a warrior and rogue EXP bonus (strangely, people hated rogues in groups back then, so they were given a bonus). I suspect the racial bonus and class bonus aren't 'stealing' from the group, because it doesn't mean it GRANTS you more exp, rather it just requires you earn LESS exp to gain a level.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822064136/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc27.shtml
GameSpot: Can you briefly summarize how most players' experience with the game will change as a result of yesterday's EverQuest patch?

Gordon Wrinn: Generally, most players will be able to advance their characters at a faster rate.

First, we are dynamically creating "experience," the advancement mechanism in EverQuest, to offset an additional "experience requirement" attached to certain character classes. Secondly, we are creating additional experience to further reward those who adventure in groups. Finally, we are increasing the experience rewards in some areas of the world.

The overall effect is that some players, depending on style, should be able to advance their characters up to nearly twice as fast as they once could.

Take the 'twice as fast' with a grain of salt, I believe this is in regards to the hybrid exp penalty being removed (20%?). Still, even with that would imply a greater exp bonus would significantly benefit grouping.

In short, old bonus used to be +2% per additional group member (pathetic!), but some values were increased again in Velious (maybe), I don't have the details on those (yet).

Perhaps this is in place in P99, I just don't know. Hard to tell the difference with a 2% exp bonus.

[loramin]

You are infringing on my ClassicQuest Loramin, I was researching this same thing!

Heh, if by "infringing" you mean I provided a single point of evidence, and you provided a mountain :)

[Buellen]

Just want to add


Qeynos Catacombs XP mod is horrible here on P1999. The zone xp bonus nerf should not be be applied till Qeynos Badge of Honor (part 4) line was put in. I believe this is durin the Luclin expansion.

[Buellen]

Some of those dungeons will still not be visited even with higher xp mods if implemented. Players on P1999 are deathly afraid as general rule of thumb of caster heavy dungeons. At least that has always been my experience here.

[Telin]

Just want to add


Qeynos Catacombs XP mod is horrible here on P1999. The zone xp bonus nerf should not be be applied till Qeynos Badge of Honor (part 4) line was put in. I believe this is durin the Luclin expansion.

Part 4 of the quest is in the game now.

[Spit]

Not to ruin the parade but this thread isn’t really relevant on p99 since kedge has been nerfed for awhile from its classic ZEM

[Rygar]

Not to ruin the parade but this thread isn’t really relevant on p99 since kedge has been nerfed for awhile from its classic ZEM

Wouldn't this make it more relevant then? I don't know exactly what happened to kedge, if devs did in fact remove a ZEM or lower it or what. Maybe they did so thinking that wasn't a classic value. Maybe this thread will change their minds?

[Buellen]

Part 4 of the quest is in the game now.

Well then I stand corrected Qeynos catacomb xp mod is correct then 8)


Thank you Telin.

[Spit]

Wouldn't this make it more relevant then? I don't know exactly what happened to kedge, if devs did in fact remove a ZEM or lower it or what. Maybe they did so thinking that wasn't a classic value. Maybe this thread will change their minds?

Yeah, I guess so. I was thinking more or so if they revised Kedge from 200 to 100 ZEM as an non classic change to ZEM why would they increase ZEM in general, but hopefully you're right!

[Quinas]

Bump.

[Bigdaddy47]

Curious if this was ever addressed