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demonstar55
12-24-2017, 02:45 PM
Fun fact, older clients tell us how AC actually works! So with that, here is how AC works in an Oct 2001 era exe. I will refer to the dev post in the "AC vs ACv2" thread I'm sure many people who care about this topic already know about (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/#post-3078126) since many things are still the same.

First some quick questions to answer.

Should P99 have an AC softcap? No, not yet. This must of been added in November, but I can't verify that (I do however know what it is thanks to a luclin exe)

Should shields give extra benefit? Nope. That was very late luclin, basically PoP for all that matters.

First we sum up the AC on items. Then if we're not a WIZ, ENC, MAG, or NEC we set this number to 4 * sum / 3. Next if we're a client, we check if the sum is greater than 6 * Level + 25. If it is, we cap our item AC to the same number.

The next steps are the same (minus more levels added for monks) Those steps being Monk bonus, rogue bonus, beastlord bonus (yep, they're in every velious exe I've checked), iksar bonus, the defense skill bonus based on class, the AGI bonus, and the class based spell AC bonus have all not changed.

Next step is the change, where the hardcap comes into play. Which only applies to client.

The default hardcap is 350 for all classes, then if you're greater than 50 (so 51+) some classes have a new, higher cap. Those being

WAR: 430
PAL, SHD, BRD: 403
RNG, ROG, MNK, BST: 375

Then since this is a hardcap, if we're above the hardcap, return the hardcap.

If I can get a hold of older velious clients, I can verify when softcaps were added, but dev quotes do tell us it's a velious change, so it must happen in November.

The way that works is exactly the same as above, just hardcap is now a softcap, for some classes.

So if we're below the softcap, we will then return the sum. Then if we're a WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, or BST we will take the difference between our sum and softcap divided by 12 and add that to the softcap and return that number. Then in every other case we will return the softcap.

So in code form:
if sum < softcap then
return sum

if IsMeleeClass() then
return (sum - softcap) / 12 + softcap

return softcap

I know there have been several threads on this question, so I thought I would provide a definitive answer since I can :P This isn't how AC is currently working, but it's how it should be. I do understand that it does mean the devs will probably have to rebalance some content so it may take a while for this to be implement if it ever is :P (looking at the wiki for warriors, so much wasted item AC!)

Baler
12-24-2017, 02:46 PM
My understanding is that the staff have put in a lot of work to get AC working as close to intended as possible.
I base this on something rogean said in the past.

edit: And for anyone wondering AC does make a difference on p99.

Dolalin
12-24-2017, 03:02 PM
True Baler, although I'm sure they'd welcome any informed (especially by disassembly) commentary. Especially Haydar.

rahmani
12-24-2017, 03:06 PM
Hmm are we talking about the ancient cyclops?

skarlorn
12-24-2017, 03:24 PM
Turn ac on, have cool air. Marry Christian

loramin
12-24-2017, 04:00 PM
beastlord bonus (yep, they're in every velious exe I've checked)

If someone someday wants to justify adding Beastlords to P99 (eg. in the custom content era), the fact that original developers were starting to do so during Velious makes for a way better argument than "not everything in Luclin was bad".

I eagerly await being able to create a Barbarian Beastlord ;)

Dothgar
12-24-2017, 04:07 PM
he spawns at 9pm but his location is random on the sand

xKoopa
12-24-2017, 04:42 PM
he spawns at 9pm but his location is random on the sand

This. Also you don't have to bother killing any placeholders.

Jimjam
12-24-2017, 08:15 PM
I told you all the rogue bonus existed!!!

rollin5k
12-24-2017, 08:38 PM
Beastlordz are like so ooo ooo lame.. sooooooooooooo bad. Super terrible. Terrible gross disgusting not classic

loramin
12-24-2017, 08:48 PM
Beastlordz are like so ooo ooo lame.. sooooooooooooo bad. Super terrible. Terrible gross disgusting not classic

Honestly I mever played one on live; I just figured any class based on Shaman must be great.

bum3
12-24-2017, 10:02 PM
Loved mine. High DPS, back up heals, slows. perfect class.

stormlord
12-24-2017, 10:36 PM
I told you all the rogue bonus existed!!!
Sine AGI is shown as a primary stat for rogues in the character creation, does it relate?

Also what's hte main benefit of shields in pre-luclin era? Bash? An extra item with extra stats? Warriors get bash without shields at lvl 55, so what's a shield worth to them? Just extra stats?

Nagoya
12-24-2017, 10:44 PM
Well it still gives AC, just no extra AC.

Spit
12-24-2017, 10:57 PM
AC never really worked correctly on eqemu , it doesn’t make a huge difference here not compared to raw hp

fastboy21
12-24-2017, 11:24 PM
Loved mine. High DPS, back up heals, slows. perfect class.

dps less than dps class, heals less than healing class, slows less than slowing class...

its a fun class, but until they gave them a unique line of abilities/buffs they had no obvious utility on raids. eventually this got fixed for them, but for a long time the only reason to play beastlord was if you actually liked the class.

demonstar55
12-24-2017, 11:57 PM
AC never really worked correctly on eqemu , it doesn’t make a huge difference here not compared to raw hp

It does now.

demonstar55
12-24-2017, 11:59 PM
Also what's hte main benefit of shields in pre-luclin era? Bash? An extra item with extra stats? Warriors get bash without shields at lvl 55, so what's a shield worth to them? Just extra stats?

Nothing really. Bash is cool though. I assume shields are just higher AC than normal items that could go in that slot. At least in classic.

skarlorn
12-25-2017, 12:02 AM
Well before Kunark shields would enable non large warriors to quickswap for a bash stun.

fastboy21
12-25-2017, 12:39 AM
Taken from the Prima Kunark Guide (so, gospel).

https://ibb.co/dhSXKm

Arkanjil
12-25-2017, 01:17 AM
I use a shield on fights like AOW, where you don’t want to risk extra ripost dmg from swings, but still get ac/hp benefit of the shield. Aggro isn’t a risk on those fights if melee are properly lowering their aggro.

Jimjam
12-25-2017, 03:22 AM
Well before Kunark shields would enable non large warriors to quickswap for a bash stun.

They enable better fashion, and raise the fashion softcap (which exists, even if the AC one doesn't).

Also, great thread OP, I'm a massive nerd for the details of the AC system.

I get excited by how rediculous and convoluted things in EQ are.

Jimjam
12-27-2017, 05:59 AM
Something confuses me here.

In the Game Mechanics: Player Armor Class (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48312) thread it is established the cap for worn ac at 51 was 168, yet 3(51*6+25)/4 produces a different number.

This is especially strange, as the cap for level 60 works out correctly 3(60*6+25)/4=288.blah .


Can anyone please point out what I've overlooked and is causing my confusion?

Dolalin
12-27-2017, 06:54 AM
I use a shield on fights like AOW, where you don’t want to risk extra ripost dmg from swings, but still get ac/hp benefit of the shield. Aggro isn’t a risk on those fights if melee are properly lowering their aggro.

That's what this sword was made for:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Gaudralek,_Sword_of_the_Sky

bum3
12-27-2017, 12:25 PM
dps less than dps class, heals less than healing class, slows less than slowing class...

its a fun class, but until they gave them a unique line of abilities/buffs they had no obvious utility on raids. eventually this got fixed for them, but for a long time the only reason to play beastlord was if you actually liked the class.

Ahh yeah. But in live SOE encouraged multiboxing. Not much could outdmg an afk non-scripted beastlord with auto attack on. And the pet could off-tank Plane of Disease mobs easily.

jakerees
12-27-2017, 12:40 PM
Is the ancient crocodile even camped very much here? IDK like when I went to guk it reminded me of something that I couldn't remember which was very familiar so I was in like some kind of brain loop until I remembered to watch out for the scryer. Never beastlords. Never.

demonstar55
12-27-2017, 01:34 PM
Something confuses me here.

In the Game Mechanics: Player Armor Class (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48312) thread it is established the cap for worn ac at 51 was 168, yet 3(51*6+25)/4 produces a different number.

This is especially strange, as the cap for level 60 works out correctly 3(60*6+25)/4=288.blah .


Can anyone please point out what I've overlooked and is causing my confusion?

You have to read between the lines in that thread a lot. Trust me (and I have provided further proof to hanvar and will, but too lazy right now), it all matches up with the decompiles I've done.

I'm still trying to pin point when some changes to AC did happen exactly, but I don't have enough exes to do that so I've had to guess (they seem to not mention some of the AC changes in the patch notes, like I see no patch notes about AC softcap introduction and we know that the late velious patches that at least touch on combat didn't introduce them either)