Flowing Thought

[Caiu]

Should not stack in the velious era.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-1.html
January 8, 2002
- Flowing Thought effects will now stack



http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=78&p=3#m100725765451379
There are 4 FT's, each with the amount of mana they regen listed. Flowing thought 1, 2, 3, and 4 regen 1, 2, 3, and 4 mana per tick, respectively. Flowing thoughts do not stack with each other, but they do stack with Chanter Mana Regen (Breeze, Clarity, Clarity 2)

and right below that we have
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=78&p=3#m10201746192133
This has been changed since Luclin. Now Flowing Thought items will stack with other Flowing Thought items of a different "rating", e.g. Flowing Thought 2 will stack with Flowing Thought 3 (but not with another FT2 item). Also there are Flowing Thought 5 items now

[Rygar]

There was another thread dedicated to this, I don't recall the conclusions that came from it.

For what it's worth in reference to the comment that says 'Also there are Flowing Thought 5 items now', I did stumble across this reference mentioning FT4-FT10 were 'disabled'. Not sure how the conclusion came about if by parsing spdat or whatever

https://www.graffes.com/forums/showthread.php?3473-Mana-Regeneration-Numbers-By-Twiddle-O-Toole-of-Veeshan

Flowing Thought IV-X ........... currently disabled at +0 per tick

No idea on it's accuracy, he even said at beginning of the thread 'I think most of this is correct'.

[Caiu]

There was another thread dedicated to this, I don't recall the conclusions that came from it.

For what it's worth in reference to the comment that says 'Also there are Flowing Thought 5 items now', I did stumble across this reference mentioning FT4-FT10 were 'disabled'. Not sure how the conclusion came about if by parsing spdat or whatever

https://www.graffes.com/forums/showthread.php?3473-Mana-Regeneration-Numbers-By-Twiddle-O-Toole-of-Veeshan



No idea on it's accuracy, he even said at beginning of the thread 'I think most of this is correct'.

Hello sir this thread is about flowing thought stacking which it should not in era. If the wording was "different ratings or levels of flowing thought now stack" then that would imply the same levels like two ft II items had an additive effect but it does not.

[Rygar]

I know, I was just tailing on something to the final comment, suggesting FT5 should not exist (or if it did, perhaps was not functioning properly) in our era. Never done any serious digging on it, but putting it out there in case anyone else wants to run with it.

[Rygar]

Just linking the other threads that brought up this discussion in case you want to refer to additional evidence there:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206457&highlight=Flowing+Thought

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79881

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210242&highlight=Flowing+Thought&page=5

Quote from Haynar in that last link:
The guide I was given for classic FT was this.

FT of different #'s stack. Same do not.

So if you have 5 different FT1 items, you net 1.

FT1 + FT2 = 3
FT2 + FT3 = 5
FT1 + FT1 + FT2 + FT2 = 3 (not 6)

If you have no drink and are thirsty, you don't regen mana.

Others had challenged that guide from Haynar saying it was out of era and posted links / testimonials to the contrary.

Seems consensus on Flowing Thought in those threads are as follows:

Only highest effect originally took place and no stacking occurred (FT1 + FT2 = +2 mana/tick, FT1 + FT1 = +1 mana/tick). This would be our era.
Changed in Luclin to stack but NOT with same effect (i.e. FT1 + FT1 = +1 mana/tick. But FT1 + FT2 = +3 mana/tick)
Finally changed again where all forms stacked (Mana Regen 1 + Mana Regen 1 + Mana Regen 2 = +4 mana/tick).

[Erati]

sorry but this was already address guys in a very lengthy thread

basically TLDR its a client issue - FT either doesnt work at all or it works like we now have it.

btw FT was broken for nearly a year of Velious so please dont break it trying to 'fix' it when its already been addressed and working. Think of p99's AA-less casters and the lack of things they look forward too when considering the direction to go here if it needs to be re-examined.

[Caiu]

sorry but this was already address guys in a very lengthy thread

basically TLDR its a client issue - FT either doesnt work at all or it works like we now have it.

btw FT was broken for nearly a year of Velious so please dont break it trying to 'fix' it when its already been addressed and working. Think of p99's AA-less casters and the lack of things they look forward too when considering the direction to go here if it needs to be re-examined.

A client issue is something that isn't able to resolved at all. If FT did not work but works now due to a change it is a debugging issue. Velious has been out awhile now so I'm confident that the dev has grown a little wiser and more experienced in that area :)

AA's were released with the Luclin expansion which this server is not implementing so I'm unsure of what you mean by that fourth sentence.

[Rygar]

AA's were released with the Luclin expansion which this server is not implementing so I'm unsure of what you mean by that fourth sentence.

I think he just means if you can't work towards a FT15 character it would give you a lot less to do on P99 in the end game, so please leave it as it is so they can have fun building a more powerful character.

If FT gets nerfed (fixed) and Classic Mana Cap gets implemented, progression for caster classes will be severely gimped and melee dps will reign even more supreme.

[Erati]

Flowing Thought of the same type does not stack with itself on P99 only the different types stack.

Thats how FT worked before they changed it to all stack up to 15 during Luclin when they scrapped calling it "Flowing Thought I, II, III etc" and just used "Mana Regeneration"

Very early on, only the highest Flowing Thought was active, but then later it was made so different instances stack ( what we have on p99 ) then changed again to stack up to 15.

Currently on p99 the max FT for a Priest = 6 ( 3+2+1) and a Caster = 8 ( 5+2+1 )

[Rygar]

Guess I never bothered to calculate out what FT15 would require, so yea you're right on it not being achievable anyways on P99.

But you still never know, Ele did link some GM rewards in one of those threads that in theory could bring a select few individuals to that limit. And if custom content ever rolls out, could see these type of items being implemented.

[Erati]

Guess I never bothered to calculate out what FT15 would require, so yea you're right on it not being achievable anyways on P99.

But you still never know, Ele did link some GM rewards in one of those threads that in theory could bring a select few individuals to that limit. And if custom content ever rolls out, could see these type of items being implemented.

Nope - there is not enough different iterations of Flowing thought in this era to come close to 15.

Priests at best can get 6 and Casters at best get 8 only with Tunare loot...

[Rygar]

I've no clue if this was brought up in the other FT threads (I'm to tired to look), but during some ClassicQuest I ran across this dev comment that states no Mana Regen items should stack with others.

Long post, basically when FT items were being discovered the caster community actually got mad at Verant because they previously said such items would likely never exist (Verant could never win!).

Anyways, long post but here it is:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010822051643/http://eqvault.ign.com:80/archive/arc11.shtml

Flowing Thoughts
[Quote: First, Guys be honest, you created item with mana regen on it and therefore broke the promise the you wouldn't do this. It does not matter that it's not as good as clarity 2 (neither is clarity 1) and is dropped by one of the most powerful mobs in the game. Just admit you did it and go on.

Second, Does this cheapen the enchanter class? As I understand the item, it is basically like the haste items the melee types covet. So as long as Flowing Thought stacks with clarity (which I understand it does), it should make the enchanter even more desirable for the fastest mana regen possible.

Third, Perhaps you should stop making promises as you tend to have to break them...

Just my 2cp
Nalenye dell'Arte
Level 52 Enchanter of the Tribunal ]

I am being honest. We DID add an item that give mana regeneration.

But we did not promise never to do so. That's the part where there is some misunderstanding.

Flowing Thought IN NO WAY reduces the desire for, or the usefulness of, enchanters and their ability to cast Clarity spells. The implication that it does (even if every character on every server had an item that gave Flowing Thought) is wrong. I find it offensive that people are unwilling to actually examine the effects of this item before calling us liars and thieves and other less than polite names.

Flowing Thought stacks with all enchanter and bard mana regeneration spells and songs. It won't stack with other items that regenerate mana.

It provides far, far less mana than Clarity.

It only appears on items found in the Plane of Hate and are no drop. So you won't find anyone under 46th level with an item like this.

But, oddly, those of you that decided to be offended by this item made no effort to discover the truth of the matter first. This might be because Flowing Thought is hard to get a hold of. Being offended at the addition of an extremely rare item that, indeed, has no impact on you or your chosen class is pretty silly, now isn't it.

I'm sorry for the rant. But being painted the villain, having our product and our reputations attacked without cause, is not something that I'll accept.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that Absor is no Gordon Wrinn, he did make mistakes on communicating information (such as saying it dropped in PoH when he meant PoF). However the context of the post should be taken into consideration about how 'little' mana these were meant to generate and would never be more than Clarity.

Edit: Should be noted that comments were from 5/4/2001.

[Just facts]

That post contain to many error to be taken seriously, the guy had no clue what he was talking about

[Pringles]

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[Pringles]

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[Menenolly]

I think the 2001 date on that Verant quote holds up as I think the quote refers to the Brain of Cazic Thule. There was plenty of chatter about that item in April 2001 on Allakhazam for example and I recall drooling over it back then but I don't see how it relates to a Velious era EQ. We have tradable flowing thought items now and it's obvious that the quote refers to the original concept of a flowing thought item where only planar level characters can loot it. So I view that quote as not in the spirit of a Velious era EQ.

[digush]

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