Sorn
10-24-2017, 04:15 AM
Hello fellow neckbeards. I'm here to call upon p99 devs to nerf the shit out of melee/everything, and I am going to do it with all the thoroughness of a min/maxing top tier raid poopsocker. Buckle up, buttercups.
8989
You, probably.
programmers can only read code and flowcharts
<?php require(classicStamina.php); ?>
First, A Brief History Of Stamina On P99
When P99 first came online in 2009, there was a rudimentary stamina loss/regen system in place. It was flawed and terrible and they disabled it so people could actually kill things and get places in a timely manner. There have been a lot of threads about it before and since, and considering how scattered everything is, I have elected to create this master thread to help devs really figure out how to fix this. Dear p99 devs:
FIX IT.
That said, here is a list of a bunch of the p99 threads I found that are relevant and not at all someone whining that runspeed is too slow for whatever reason (because no one cares about those people).
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30539
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113886
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176276
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190182
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153226
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212899
The History Of Stamina On Live
Stamina used to be a big deal but then one day in 2003 SOE replaced it with Endurance and the game hasn't been the same since. We cannot use any information other than jumping from live, but any info from about 2002 and back is relevant.
Why Is This Important?
It's classic. If it's classic, it should be in P99.
To expand: stamina will affect melee tactics, it will affect aspiring Olympic swimmers doing tiny tiny AFK laps in ponds (you know who you are), and it will affect who you want in the group because those silly stamina regen spells suddenly become a lot more important. Oh, and God forbid you battle rez someone and expect them to continue DPSing at the same rate as before without someone zinging the poor soul. It's a huge part of classic EQ that is currently missing from our nostalgia trips and I demand that it be fixed. Demand, I tell you!
The Mechanics
Stamina has several parts to it.
Here's a post for monks describing part of what it does from 2002, before STA was replaced with END: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8666-Idiots-Guide-to-the-Iksar-Monk-1-55
Stamina (sta)- This stat affects a few things. First of all it has a direct relationship to how many hit points you have. In addition to this it affects the yellow bar below your health. If you have under 100 stamina and this bar runs out (which can happen with heavy weapons, lack of food, being overweight, etc) you will lose other stats and be slowed (ie. Swing your weapon less times per second). Seeing as how this is true I would definitely try to get this stat over 100, if not put all your points into stamina.
Base Stamina And Penalties
An old thread from Monkly Business has one post that recommends having your stamina above 100 as a monk. nilbog suggests in this thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23162) that this avoids a minor attack/delay penalty. Another comment here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=355&p=9#m99512140128892) suggests that the moment it visibly depletes, you start missing a lot more, hitting for less, and you have fewer crits.
Now this comment here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=3&mid=107223318656332#2):
First, until they eliminated the stamina bar, sta at 100 or better meant that you could run out of endurance and not suffer detrimental effects on your melee.
And this comment here: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m101732639421878
You have no penalty if your stamina is above 100. No agi/dex drop, no ac drop, no attack drop.
Now, if your yellow bar runs out AND your stamina is below 100, yes you do have major stats penalty.
And this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m99712260018085
Why would you bother logging combat text, and running a log file parser? You can just open your inventory and look at your stats. If your fatigue bar has run out (fighting underwater, weilding heavy weapons, etc) and your stamina statistic is low, you will lose agi and dex. If you are encumbered, you will lose agi.
There were of course some arguments about it, like this fellow who might've been smote by the RNG gods: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m101235157435170
This post from p99 in 2011 quotes an EQMac post (fortunately – the eqmac forums were baleeted by the gods of EQ development, which is a real shame): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246022&postcount=17
Stamina Regen
Stamina regen should be pretty high (much faster than either mana or hp), but not enough that it can't go down at all. Sitting will help it regen even faster!
Certain buffs can regen stamina.
http://fernworks.net/~dyeomans/DownLoads/pages/eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp%3FId=86
(Read the comments for a laugh!)
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Stamina Regen
Invigor (24), Extinguish Fatigue (44)
Both of these spells will increase stamina regen drastically; Invigor will cause a stamina bar (the yellow bar) to fill up in just a tic or two, while Extinguish will flat out fill the bar as it lands. Tanks wielding heavy weapons can often get low on stamina, making them swing sluggish and reducing their combat abilities minorly.
Certain haste spells come with a small amount of stamina regen
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Augmentation is actually a weaker haste than Alacrity, but is longer duration and includes Stamina regen, AC and AGI (thus AC) buffs.
Certain spells deplete stamina.
Rezzes, of course, but also Bind Sight!
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Remote Viewing
Bind Sight (8), Shifting Sight (20), Cast Sight (34)
Parlor tricks mostly, and a chance for some nifty screeshots. This spell allows you to see through the eyes of your target, and you can also "hop scotch" to other targets you pick up during their travels. Duration is until your stamina runs out, though the farther way the target gets the more jumpy the "transmission" gets. [...] You can renew your stamina with stamina regen spells during the effects.
Weapon Swings
Each swing will deplete stamina. How much stamina per swing depends on weapon weight and encumbrance.
Regardless of weapon weight, consecutive fights will really hit you hard in the stamina bar. Here's a comment on a monk guide about camping the sarnak earring of station: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8632-Guide-to-get-your-very-own-Sarnak-Earring-of-Stations!&p=92837&viewfull=1#post92837
2) Your stamina bar will drop to nothing after like 3 fights.
They didn't clarify why but I think it's because of all the coinage you end up with along with lots of fighting. Given that monks can drop their weapons and use their 0.0 weight fists, I think it makes a strong case for there being a base stamina loss per swing.
Weapon Weight
Wurmslayer is famous for this, being a 15 stone weapon, but it may also happen with other weapons. Let's say that with 100 stamina, a 15 stone weapon like Wurmslayer will leave you with < 20% stamina after a single fight, which may lead to an attack/speed penalty (if you have under 100 sta).
This post has a comment on weapon weight: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8580-Which-weapon-where-(a-guide-in-the-making)&p=92187&viewfull=1#post92187
If your stamina isn't 100+, you might care more about your weapon's weight. If you're a monk, you might really care about weight as well. I'm not going to cover this and break it down at this time.
Here's a post that discusses stamina for rogues: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/library-read-only/2967-book-of-knowledge-guide-to-soloing
Stamina is also very important. I'm not talking about the stamina stat, but the stamina bar in the corner. Remember when I said to use lightweight weapons? Well that is because you want your stamina up for a a number of reasons. During your pull, while chasing your MoB after a successful instill doubt, or during a retreat to zone; you will probably be making good use of your jump button (which requires stamina). With heavy weapons and a low stamina, you'll be a dead rogue. So keep an eye on that bar.”
“One thing to avoid are heavy weapons. Ditch that glowing iron pike and anything else that is over 4 weight (with the exception of the PGT), because the stamina bar is a big issue when it comes to soloing (explained later).
Now of course we can get to the Teir`Dal Sai on a monk, which is first of all a heavy weapon and second of all it has a very low delay: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m100241448261201
So that 5.2 wieght can cause you to burn through your stamina in no time at all. Which is VERY bad if you're fighting a high lvl velious mob. About halfway through the fight, your rate of attack, and agility will drop considerably (IE now the mob is dying more slowly and you will die much more quickly).
(Later comments state that STA above 100 will keep you from suffering this penalty, although you WILL lose stamina points very quickly and end up unable to jump.)
Dual Wielding
Stamina takes into account both weapons. See this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=355&p=9#m99176684796742
Combine the weight of both weapons and I think that should be the correct amount for the stamina loss formula.
Double Attack
According to this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m101525131745125
As for the Stamina - when stamina dropps down, your Double Attack skill appears to go down. You still hit as hard as usual, but instead of DA giving you 7 attacks per 4 rounds, you will only get 5 or 6. Unless someone has a slot free or unless Zing is already loaded for someone else, just put the heavy weapon into a bag when you reach half-stamina and let your fists do the talking.
Encumbrance
This ought to affect stamina loss the way it affects agility, at least for running. Moving while encumbered should cause markedly more depletion.
Related, full stamina loss will result in lower dex and agi (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m99712260018085), if you have <100 STA
Encumbrance And Weapon Swings
I am not sure if this is calculated in with weapon swings or if it's only with movement.
Melee Abilities
Slam/Bash/fancy monk kicks - ? I find no mention of this anywhere but I think it can be lumped in with regular hits.
Running
Running for long periods has been known to deplete stamina, but it takes a LOT of running and I have found no real mention of it anywhere except in passing.
Swimming
Swimming should deplete stamina much faster than running, enough that classes with invigor or extinguish fatigue are a must when venturing into Kedge Keep. You can regain stamina by allowing yourself to sink to the bottom of the water and sitting. How do I know you need to sit? Here's a post from a monk about soloing bloodgills in LOIO, and at one point they mention a safe spot to sit to regen stamina: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/monklybusiness43508/level-guide-lake-of-ill-omen-12-30-and-48-51-t787.html
Here's a good comment regarding how fast stamina might deplete when crossing an ocean: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=72&p=2#m96956897818024
A. Get yourself a SOW and a levitate. Run SouthEast to the Elven Outpost. It's a long run with both sow and levitate on. Catch the ship and take a ride to FV.
B. Avoid the Ogres ( Camo, Invis, Sneak ) and get on the Bloated belly. Ride that past the shipwreck and the island with the Iskar Master. As soon as you pass that island, you'll zone, so JUMP OFF THE BOAT. Swim Due East and you'll be at the Elf Outpost shortly.
C. From the far end of the Sprioc Village, swim East to the Fallen Iskar Island. Sit to reagain your stamina
Random Other Things
You will randomly get 'seasick' while on the boat and drop to 40% stamina: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=42&p=2#m101263138442244
Oh hey, here's a mention of a second boat...: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=42&p=2#m100230966917545
Okay, that has nothing to do with stamina. Sorry. Relevant info should be posted in this thread. Let it become...THE MASTER THREAD. For this year. Maybe next year. But if it goes into 2019 with no resolution I will be very upset. :<
8989
You, probably.
programmers can only read code and flowcharts
<?php require(classicStamina.php); ?>
First, A Brief History Of Stamina On P99
When P99 first came online in 2009, there was a rudimentary stamina loss/regen system in place. It was flawed and terrible and they disabled it so people could actually kill things and get places in a timely manner. There have been a lot of threads about it before and since, and considering how scattered everything is, I have elected to create this master thread to help devs really figure out how to fix this. Dear p99 devs:
FIX IT.
That said, here is a list of a bunch of the p99 threads I found that are relevant and not at all someone whining that runspeed is too slow for whatever reason (because no one cares about those people).
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30539
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113886
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176276
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190182
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153226
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212899
The History Of Stamina On Live
Stamina used to be a big deal but then one day in 2003 SOE replaced it with Endurance and the game hasn't been the same since. We cannot use any information other than jumping from live, but any info from about 2002 and back is relevant.
Why Is This Important?
It's classic. If it's classic, it should be in P99.
To expand: stamina will affect melee tactics, it will affect aspiring Olympic swimmers doing tiny tiny AFK laps in ponds (you know who you are), and it will affect who you want in the group because those silly stamina regen spells suddenly become a lot more important. Oh, and God forbid you battle rez someone and expect them to continue DPSing at the same rate as before without someone zinging the poor soul. It's a huge part of classic EQ that is currently missing from our nostalgia trips and I demand that it be fixed. Demand, I tell you!
The Mechanics
Stamina has several parts to it.
Here's a post for monks describing part of what it does from 2002, before STA was replaced with END: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8666-Idiots-Guide-to-the-Iksar-Monk-1-55
Stamina (sta)- This stat affects a few things. First of all it has a direct relationship to how many hit points you have. In addition to this it affects the yellow bar below your health. If you have under 100 stamina and this bar runs out (which can happen with heavy weapons, lack of food, being overweight, etc) you will lose other stats and be slowed (ie. Swing your weapon less times per second). Seeing as how this is true I would definitely try to get this stat over 100, if not put all your points into stamina.
Base Stamina And Penalties
An old thread from Monkly Business has one post that recommends having your stamina above 100 as a monk. nilbog suggests in this thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23162) that this avoids a minor attack/delay penalty. Another comment here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=355&p=9#m99512140128892) suggests that the moment it visibly depletes, you start missing a lot more, hitting for less, and you have fewer crits.
Now this comment here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=3&mid=107223318656332#2):
First, until they eliminated the stamina bar, sta at 100 or better meant that you could run out of endurance and not suffer detrimental effects on your melee.
And this comment here: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m101732639421878
You have no penalty if your stamina is above 100. No agi/dex drop, no ac drop, no attack drop.
Now, if your yellow bar runs out AND your stamina is below 100, yes you do have major stats penalty.
And this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m99712260018085
Why would you bother logging combat text, and running a log file parser? You can just open your inventory and look at your stats. If your fatigue bar has run out (fighting underwater, weilding heavy weapons, etc) and your stamina statistic is low, you will lose agi and dex. If you are encumbered, you will lose agi.
There were of course some arguments about it, like this fellow who might've been smote by the RNG gods: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m101235157435170
This post from p99 in 2011 quotes an EQMac post (fortunately – the eqmac forums were baleeted by the gods of EQ development, which is a real shame): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246022&postcount=17
Stamina Regen
Stamina regen should be pretty high (much faster than either mana or hp), but not enough that it can't go down at all. Sitting will help it regen even faster!
Certain buffs can regen stamina.
http://fernworks.net/~dyeomans/DownLoads/pages/eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp%3FId=86
(Read the comments for a laugh!)
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Stamina Regen
Invigor (24), Extinguish Fatigue (44)
Both of these spells will increase stamina regen drastically; Invigor will cause a stamina bar (the yellow bar) to fill up in just a tic or two, while Extinguish will flat out fill the bar as it lands. Tanks wielding heavy weapons can often get low on stamina, making them swing sluggish and reducing their combat abilities minorly.
Certain haste spells come with a small amount of stamina regen
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Augmentation is actually a weaker haste than Alacrity, but is longer duration and includes Stamina regen, AC and AGI (thus AC) buffs.
Certain spells deplete stamina.
Rezzes, of course, but also Bind Sight!
http://xornn.tripod.com/Spells/spell.htm
Remote Viewing
Bind Sight (8), Shifting Sight (20), Cast Sight (34)
Parlor tricks mostly, and a chance for some nifty screeshots. This spell allows you to see through the eyes of your target, and you can also "hop scotch" to other targets you pick up during their travels. Duration is until your stamina runs out, though the farther way the target gets the more jumpy the "transmission" gets. [...] You can renew your stamina with stamina regen spells during the effects.
Weapon Swings
Each swing will deplete stamina. How much stamina per swing depends on weapon weight and encumbrance.
Regardless of weapon weight, consecutive fights will really hit you hard in the stamina bar. Here's a comment on a monk guide about camping the sarnak earring of station: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8632-Guide-to-get-your-very-own-Sarnak-Earring-of-Stations!&p=92837&viewfull=1#post92837
2) Your stamina bar will drop to nothing after like 3 fights.
They didn't clarify why but I think it's because of all the coinage you end up with along with lots of fighting. Given that monks can drop their weapons and use their 0.0 weight fists, I think it makes a strong case for there being a base stamina loss per swing.
Weapon Weight
Wurmslayer is famous for this, being a 15 stone weapon, but it may also happen with other weapons. Let's say that with 100 stamina, a 15 stone weapon like Wurmslayer will leave you with < 20% stamina after a single fight, which may lead to an attack/speed penalty (if you have under 100 sta).
This post has a comment on weapon weight: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8580-Which-weapon-where-(a-guide-in-the-making)&p=92187&viewfull=1#post92187
If your stamina isn't 100+, you might care more about your weapon's weight. If you're a monk, you might really care about weight as well. I'm not going to cover this and break it down at this time.
Here's a post that discusses stamina for rogues: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/library-read-only/2967-book-of-knowledge-guide-to-soloing
Stamina is also very important. I'm not talking about the stamina stat, but the stamina bar in the corner. Remember when I said to use lightweight weapons? Well that is because you want your stamina up for a a number of reasons. During your pull, while chasing your MoB after a successful instill doubt, or during a retreat to zone; you will probably be making good use of your jump button (which requires stamina). With heavy weapons and a low stamina, you'll be a dead rogue. So keep an eye on that bar.”
“One thing to avoid are heavy weapons. Ditch that glowing iron pike and anything else that is over 4 weight (with the exception of the PGT), because the stamina bar is a big issue when it comes to soloing (explained later).
Now of course we can get to the Teir`Dal Sai on a monk, which is first of all a heavy weapon and second of all it has a very low delay: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m100241448261201
So that 5.2 wieght can cause you to burn through your stamina in no time at all. Which is VERY bad if you're fighting a high lvl velious mob. About halfway through the fight, your rate of attack, and agility will drop considerably (IE now the mob is dying more slowly and you will die much more quickly).
(Later comments state that STA above 100 will keep you from suffering this penalty, although you WILL lose stamina points very quickly and end up unable to jump.)
Dual Wielding
Stamina takes into account both weapons. See this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=355&p=9#m99176684796742
Combine the weight of both weapons and I think that should be the correct amount for the stamina loss formula.
Double Attack
According to this comment: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6287#m101525131745125
As for the Stamina - when stamina dropps down, your Double Attack skill appears to go down. You still hit as hard as usual, but instead of DA giving you 7 attacks per 4 rounds, you will only get 5 or 6. Unless someone has a slot free or unless Zing is already loaded for someone else, just put the heavy weapon into a bag when you reach half-stamina and let your fists do the talking.
Encumbrance
This ought to affect stamina loss the way it affects agility, at least for running. Moving while encumbered should cause markedly more depletion.
Related, full stamina loss will result in lower dex and agi (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6439#m99712260018085), if you have <100 STA
Encumbrance And Weapon Swings
I am not sure if this is calculated in with weapon swings or if it's only with movement.
Melee Abilities
Slam/Bash/fancy monk kicks - ? I find no mention of this anywhere but I think it can be lumped in with regular hits.
Running
Running for long periods has been known to deplete stamina, but it takes a LOT of running and I have found no real mention of it anywhere except in passing.
Swimming
Swimming should deplete stamina much faster than running, enough that classes with invigor or extinguish fatigue are a must when venturing into Kedge Keep. You can regain stamina by allowing yourself to sink to the bottom of the water and sitting. How do I know you need to sit? Here's a post from a monk about soloing bloodgills in LOIO, and at one point they mention a safe spot to sit to regen stamina: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/monklybusiness43508/level-guide-lake-of-ill-omen-12-30-and-48-51-t787.html
Here's a good comment regarding how fast stamina might deplete when crossing an ocean: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=72&p=2#m96956897818024
A. Get yourself a SOW and a levitate. Run SouthEast to the Elven Outpost. It's a long run with both sow and levitate on. Catch the ship and take a ride to FV.
B. Avoid the Ogres ( Camo, Invis, Sneak ) and get on the Bloated belly. Ride that past the shipwreck and the island with the Iskar Master. As soon as you pass that island, you'll zone, so JUMP OFF THE BOAT. Swim Due East and you'll be at the Elf Outpost shortly.
C. From the far end of the Sprioc Village, swim East to the Fallen Iskar Island. Sit to reagain your stamina
Random Other Things
You will randomly get 'seasick' while on the boat and drop to 40% stamina: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=42&p=2#m101263138442244
Oh hey, here's a mention of a second boat...: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=42&p=2#m100230966917545
Okay, that has nothing to do with stamina. Sorry. Relevant info should be posted in this thread. Let it become...THE MASTER THREAD. For this year. Maybe next year. But if it goes into 2019 with no resolution I will be very upset. :<