Scout Roll Agreement 2017

[AdrenolineLove]

Hello friends!

This needs to be said on the forums and agreed upon because apparently people think they can break the rules and use the excuse "it doesn't say that anywhere" even though everyone who has been attending is well aware of the rules.

Sirken has stated that he will be enforcing player made rules so it is imperative that we get people agreeing on this on the forums so we have something to petition when people decide they want to do whatever they want.

THE RULES ARE AS FOLLOW FOR ROLLING SCOUT CHARISA:

1) YOU MUST HAVE THE TOOLS. You win the roll, you turn in tools, you loot the disc. If you do not follow this rule you will be petitioned. This is to prevent someone with 40 friends showing up who don't need it and creating a weighted roll for that one person.

2) PLEASE STAY AND HELP. This is not required but more of a courtesy. It's a 5-10 minute ordeal, dont be a salty loser, help the people who are one day going to help you in return. We all have real lives and sometimes you cant always stick around, but if you can, please do.

3) IN THE EVENT YOU CLICKFEST. You will be petitioned. You are breaking the playerwide agreement. The entire reason we're doing this is to keep it fair for the people showing up. Clickfest has been proven to be a shit show and I've heard it from a former GM that they are aware people can edit .ini files to insta-turn in. We will not be clickfesting anymore.

4) ROLLING TIME. We all agree to roll at a specific time, usually about 5 minutes or so before the spawn time. You will be allowed to roll up until Scout pops. Your roll will not be negated just because you didn't roll the exact 30 seconds everyone else rolls. All rolls are valid until Scout pops.

May the gods of your choice bless your dice.

[Rygar]

I'm hoping spawn time gets changed:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281965

So that would allow a 1hr window and longer timer, making roll time a bit more difficult (and also people sticking around for up to an hour).

[perturbed]

Agree

[Kiithsa]

I approve, sounds fair enough

[Legidias]

Also disagree with forcing loot. As stated in other thread, I personally have never even won a roll but I believe rolling = ownership of mob, and not designated loot. People win to MQ or give to guild, other person can win next time for themselves / bring their own buddies. As long as someone is committing the time / effort to get there and wait / roll, they have a fair shot at rolling for OWNERSHIP of mob / loot meaning they can do with it as they will.

Also, player made rules are only for people who agreed to it. Technically if someone didnt roll and decided to clickfest (as has happened), they would be in the right (legally, not morally) to ignore rolls altogether. Just stating on forum doesnt work. Even OOCing in WW prior to roll doesnt work, as they can just ooc "I do not agree to roll." and then be in the clear to clickfest. If they rolled and THEN click fest, there should be immediate suspension / ban, but they need to agree to roll in the first place. There needs to be something to solve this, but I have no solution to this.

[Bizban]

Cant approve allowing 1 person to show up to something without there own force to kill a mob and having a chance of winning a best in slot piece of gear ./100% disagree

[thiz1234]

Voted no. WTB disc pst

[Lojik]

Have to lol at the people fighting hard to allow other people to loot tools so they can sell MQ's / roll for friends. They should probably implement some nonclassic code that makes scout charisa give you back a no drop container that you have to combine the disc in. If nothing else it would cut down on /petitions

[Legidias]

Imagine the shitshow if someone wanted to force OOT AC to be only for personal use if they wanted to get on list.

[Fasttimes]

Voting no. Wtb disc 20k PM me

[Lojik]

Imagine the shitshow if someone wanted to force OOT AC to be only for personal use if they wanted to get on list.

Yah shorter lines at ac and people questing their own shit how awful

[thiz1234]

Voting no. Wtb disc 20k PM me

ill pay 21k holla at yo boi

[LiQuid]

I dunno what to make of the "no" votes here. Trolls or people that just want it to be an FFA loot/MQ shitshow like most other loot is on the server? The entire reason this works is because the LOSERS in good faith help the winner pull and kill the captain. If this turns into an FFA disk loot for sale or MQ to friends and guildies as the standard and not the rare exception to the agreement then it will require everyone who comes to roll needing their own kill force because the losers will have no incentive to help the winner.

Nobody likes coming to these for a month and losing every roll only to watch people take advantage of the good will of the community by stacking their rolls and giving the disk to an alt or guildy.

I vote YES to roll and YES to your disk/your loot and people who betray the agreement put their entire guild's participation in jeopardy because if you burn the losers the losers should stop helping you and your guild is going to turn into Savage 2.0.

[Legidias]

@ liquid's post;

Entirely wrong. First of all, its not that it would be like 'most' other loot on server, it would be exactly like EVERY OTHER MOB / LOOT on server as is completely fair.

Who here is gonna tell me you never EVER bought, or sold any single item in game, on main or alt, and purely quested / hunted it yourself? Even ALS has sales within guild.

People help roll winner regardless. One time someone wins and decides to sell after. Fine. Another time YOU win for your char that has some shitty bracers or w/e, and they help you. Then next time everyone helps whoever won again regardless of what they decide to do with it. Why does it matter to you (the helper) where disk ends up? Its not gonna end up in your pocket either way, so why even help the guy who wants it for himself for an upgrade? What about next time when you win, why does that person who wants to sell it want to help you?

You come, you might lose for a month, 2 months, or never win. Thats what a completely unbiased, fair roll is. You are not entitled to getting loot, you earn it, or in this case, be lucky. Dont be salty your dice suck. I have never won the roll on these despite coming to many, and have 0 salt about it because its a fair loss regardless of where disk ends up.

So again, NO to provision that only roller can loot; rolling in and of itself is fine and the rest of the agreement, but to be 100% fair to EVERYONE involved, rolling should only grant ownership of mob and not designate loot.

[Freakish]

Go ahead and vote no. What'll happen is it starts going to the same guy ten times in a row who will give it to guildies or sell it. Standing on spawn clicking air is as dumb as this game gets.

[AdrenolineLove]

If anyone could roll for anyone else than an entire guild can just show up and roll every time. Bring 50 people all roll for one person every single time. Hell even if that person doesnt need it, they can lock this mob down as a way to make their guild money since they will be the only ones winning the roll and can sell them for 20k.

The people like you and me who are showing up every 10 hours are putting time and work in deserve a fair shot. Ive helped kill Captain 100 times. Why should I help 1 person get the item just so he can make 20k when there are people who have been coming for months because its an actual upgrade?

Thats horse shit. Go farm something else if you need money you broke bitch.

[Legidias]

Go ahead and vote no. What'll happen is it starts going to the same guy ten times in a row who will give it to guildies or sell it. Standing on spawn clicking air is as dumb as this game gets.

No one is advocating click fest. Just outlining roll rules

[Legidias]

If anyone could roll for anyone else than an entire guild can just show up and roll every time. Bring 50 people all roll for one person every single time. Hell even if that person doesnt need it, they can lock this mob down as a way to make their guild money since they will be the only ones winning the roll and can sell them for 20k.

The people like you and me who are showing up every 10 hours are putting time and work in deserve a fair shot. Ive helped kill Captain 100 times. Why should I help 1 person get the item just so he can make 20k when there are people who have been coming for months because its an actual upgrade?

Thats horse shit. Go farm something else if you need money you broke bitch.

If an entire guild is showing up for every roll to win, they are putting in exactly the same effort (if not more so since it means they cant do any raid or anything) as you are. Why are you so entitled to loot when someone else who puts in the same time and effort is not?

The point of roll is it is a fair way to judge who wins. You cannot lock down a roll with pure numbers, as its random. You can have higher odds with more people, but its never a lock down like say using third party clicker program for clickfest.

Why should anyone who shows up every 10 hours for a month help YOU out when they dont get item? And you try and tell me that 20k isnt an upgrade for someone every bit as much as item itself. Even if someone could use an upgrade bracer, maybe that 20k gets them that item theyve always wanted but was short of money on so they decide thats whats needed.

Go play in some other instanced game if you feel entitled to I DESERVE LOOT.

[Freakish]

Yes but you tell me I can't roll for my alt, I no longer have a method of getting scout without breaking your roll (of which I have no plans and do not even currently attend rolls). Yes sellers suck. If you find one, just don't help them. But if you tell those sellers they can't roll, you've hit a roadblock and they have the ultimate leverage of burning it down.

[AdrenolineLove]

Too bad so sad. Thats the rules weve agreed to. Dont like it dont come. This will not be a mob in which we are allowing farming. This will not be your cash cow. Get over it.

Why would to not be able to get it for your alt? Go faction, go get the tools and then show up like the rest of us. Put in your time, get your item, move on.

[aaezil]

selling winning roll 5k, selling disc 15k

[Legidias]

Also, player made rules are only for people who agreed to it. Technically if someone didnt roll and decided to clickfest (as has happened), they would be in the right (legally, not morally) to ignore rolls altogether. Just stating on forum doesnt work. Even OOCing in WW prior to roll doesnt work, as they can just ooc "I do not agree to roll." and then be in the clear to clickfest. If they rolled and THEN click fest, there should be immediate suspension / ban, but they need to agree to roll in the first place.

Player made agreements only work when everyone agrees. What you do mean the rules """weve""" agreed to. I could (potentially) hop in and then say /ooc Random 2000 winner can do w/e they want with loot, and then anyone who rolls 2000 would be along my ruleset EVEN if you ooc /random 1000 winner = looter. It would just turn into clickfest at that point which no one wants.

The point of discussing this is to come to a real conclusion not just I LIKE IT MY WAY AND WAAAAHHH ILL IGNORE ANY OTHER OPINIONS.

Get over your entitlement, anyone who is rolling that has tools has put in time / effort and has earned a right to roll and do what they want with loot.

(Also, lol @ "allowing" any mob in game to be farmed or not)

[Zizba]

If anyone could roll for anyone else than an entire guild can just show up and roll every time. Bring 50 people all roll for one person every single time. Hell even if that person doesnt need it, they can lock this mob down as a way to make their guild money since they will be the only ones winning the roll and can sell them for 20k.

The people like you and me who are showing up every 10 hours are putting time and work in deserve a fair shot. Ive helped kill Captain 100 times. Why should I help 1 person get the item just so he can make 20k when there are people who have been coming for months because its an actual upgrade?

Thats horse shit. Go farm something else if you need money you broke bitch.

Then go farm 20k and buy it you want an upgrade for your 5th toon "broke bitch"

[AdrenolineLove]

This isn't really a discussion. These are the rules that have been set and you and everyone else can vote agree and disagree. You're welcome to voice your opinion as you'd please but as stated, these are the rules, agree or disagree.

As you can clearly see from the numbers, the majority of us agree. Therefore I am entitled to use "weve" anyway I please as I speak on the majority's behalf.

Feel free to not follow these rules and I will enjoy petitioning you.

[Legidias]

It woudl turn into clickfest for the two sides. This has happened (a lot) previously when savage was there. People would roll, then 2-3 members of savage would pop in and it would turn into clickfest. If savage won, they do w/e with it. If a roller won, they (usually) honored roll agreement and gave mob to whoever won roll. Once another side pops in, all previous rules are thrown out.

Would be similar annoying clickfest with 2 separate factions.

[Croco]

You win the roll, you turn in, you loot. Scalpers/farmers gtfo.

[Legidias]

This isn't really a discussion. These are the rules that have been set and you and everyone else can vote agree and disagree. You're welcome to voice your opinion as you'd please but as stated, these are the rules, agree or disagree.

As you can clearly see from the numbers, the majority of us agree. Therefore I am entitled to use "weve" anyway I please as I speak on the majority's behalf.

Feel free to not follow these rules and I will enjoy petitioning you.


This is not your dictatorship and it is entirely a discussion. I could go tomorrow and decide to clickfest it and legally in P99 rules there is nothing you could do about it, given I didnt roll and /ooc'd that Im click festing it, which I still wouldnt do cause, clickfest, gross, etc.

YOU are welcome to voice your opinions, but realize they are just that, your opinions. You are not P99 staff and you do not get to lay down the rules of the land that everyone must follow because you feel entitled to loot.

So please, GTFO, you dont speak for everyone, and let people discuss this.

[AdrenolineLove]

How does this work? If 23 people agree and 22 people disagree, the 22 people who disagree are forced to obey everyone else's rules or risk being banned?

This will not be the case. It wont be 22 vs 23. There will be a huge gap because the majority of us aren't salty greedy cucks and thats why we've agreed to do it this way in the first place.

[Legidias]

salty greedy cucks

Then stop being a salty greedy cuck and demanding you get loot.

Im trying to be 100% fair to everyone, while youre saying to not be greedy while at the same time whining how you put in the same hours as everyone else yet you deserve the loot.

[AdrenolineLove]

Leg, youre right its not a dictatorship. This is the rules that everyone has been agreeing to.

Youre right in saying that you can legally go ahead and clickfest tomorrow, thats the entire reason were doing this. GMs have said they will honor player made agreements, here we are making a player made agreement so we have some recourse for people who dont want to follow the rule we've agreed upon.

I've reached out to Sirken to try to establish a fair timeline in which everyone gets enough time to vote and then he confirms this is the new rule. So enjoy your clickfesting for now.

[thiz1234]

WTB disc x3 21k per

[Legidias]

You realize all along ive stated over and over I do not click, and abhor it, and the fact that Ive been to many, many rolls and never won, yet I am not nearly as salty as you about it?

I am completely discussing this to keep it 100% fair and clear for loot, not to be entitled to loot simply because I show up to this a lot.

And these are not rules everyone has been agreeing to, even the other thread showed people had different rules in mind, and even here you can starkly see that not everyone agrees to it, and enough of people disagree that this wouldnt fly.

So again, stop trying to push your greedy agenda, and let people roll in fairness since they have put in the same amount of time and work you have.

Which part of they having put in the same work as you and deserve a fair shot at loot seems wrong to you exactly?

[LiQuid]

This is not your dictatorship and it is entirely a discussion.

The entire point of this thread is not a discussion. It is to outline and make official the rules of the player agreement as stated in the OP, which the majority of responses so far agree with which state clearly that the winning roller must be the one to receive loot. So if this vote passes the rules in the OP are official player agreement which is allegedly enforced by GM/petition(?)

This is the way 90% of all people that show up to roll have already been doing it anways and there's no complaints. We all come and roll and losers help winners and nobody complains. It's not about loot entitlement, it's about wanting to make the roll fair for people that actually need it and not an opportunity for someone to show up every 10 hours to try and make a quick buck with all our help. Arguing to make the win MQable or salable is arguing for greed. It's anti social and crappy.

[AdrenolineLove]

If you think this is a greedy agenda because I want people who show up that need an upgrade rather than showing up with their guild at a chance to SELL the item, I don't need to speak anymore on your understanding of what happening.

I've been coming to scout for 5+ months now, I'm well aware of what has been agreed upon and these are the rules. People will never come to some magical unanimous agreement. But this is what we are voting on and so far, the majority agrees.

What you are proposing is a greedy agenda. Being able to provide weighted rolls for your friends so they can sell items is fucking greedy. I dont know how else to explain that to you. "They all showed up so they put in the time" does not apply when they are just showing up to ensure one person has an unfair advantage.

If I showed up every 10 hours and rolled 20 times, you would say "go fuck yourself" wouldn't you? It's the same thing.

[Fasttimes]

Wtb disc x4 22k each PM ya boy

[Pokesan]

:(its extremely unfair that i can't roll to sell for MQ

[jpetrick]

An agreement is only enforceable if all parties involved agree to it. You can't enforce terms of a contract upon someone who does not sign and agree to the terms.

[AdrenolineLove]

An agreement is only enforceable if all parties involved agree to it. You can't enforce terms of a contract upon someone who does not sign and agree to the terms.

Sure you can. Its called life. There are plenty of rules that plenty of people disagree upon. If you break the rules there's something called "punishment" which enforces said rules, regardless if you agree with them or not.

Not everything in life is resolved with a "unanimous decision", but rather a majority rules.

[aaezil]

so half of the 2000 or so active players need to vote for any one side to win? Looks like you've got a long way to go

[thiz1234]

Wtb disc x3 23k each. Fasttimes is a lowballer! Buy a new upgrade today with your scout roll!

[jpetrick]

Sure you can. Its called life. There are plenty of rules that plenty of people disagree upon. If you break the rules there's something called "punishment" which enforces said rules, regardless if you agree with them or not.

Not everything in life is resolved with a "unanimous decision", but rather a majority rules.

Except on p99, where you are playing, the precedent for a player made agreement has always been that all parties involved must agree in order for the agreement to be valid. Either get a GM to make a rule or get all parties involved to agree.

I see your forum join date is 2017. I'm assuming you are just new to the server and haven't been around to know these things. Easy mistake, happy to educate you.

[LiQuid]

I see your forum join date is 2017. I'm assuming you are just new to the server and haven't been around to know these things. Easy mistake, happy to educate you.

How does it feel to be this outneckbearded Adrenaline?

[Fasttimes]

Don't fall into Chodney's trap. 4x 24k final offer. When green comes out manastone price will plummet on future gains so sell me your scout today.

[Lojik]

An agreement is only enforceable if all parties involved agree to it. You can't enforce terms of a contract upon someone who does not sign and agree to the terms.

True, but I think if we have a thread in server chat where many people agree, you can point to that and say "if you roll you agree to those terms." Lets say theres no agreement listed, and AM stretch it and say "hey I won the roll but I want to sell my loot rights." Ok, fine. What if some other guild wins the roll and says "hey I don't have any factioned toons, so another guildie is going to turn in for me." What would AM do in that case? They'd probably be pissed, but for players who have multiple toons it's a lot easier for them to keep some factioned toons versus other players who may not.

[AdrenolineLove]

So your only defense is to attack my length on the server lol. Man you sure got me! I concede, deleting the entire post!

Maybe you missed the point of this - to get a GM to make this a rule.

Cant wait to out roll you at scout. GG.

[Dreenk317]

Except on p99, where you are playing, the precedent for a player made agreement has always been that all parties involved must agree in order for the agreement to be valid. Either get a GM to make a rule or get all parties involved to agree.

I see your forum join date is 2017. I'm assuming you are just new to the server and haven't been around to know these things. Easy mistake, happy to educate you.

Ya, but if at the start of the roll someone declares that the rules are "Your roll, Your tools, Your disc, /random 1000". And you then roll, you have consented to the rules, otherwise, if you have issue with them you should have brought it up BEFORE you rolled.

Therefore, if the rules are stated by someone BEFORE the roll, and you roll, you have consented to said player made agreement.

Its like being in a group that is alpha rotating gems, if someone says alpha, and no one says otherwise, you cant them ninja loot all the gems and tell them to point to the forum post where the Alpha Loot agreement is outlined and you can "sign up" for it. Thats just stupid logic.

[skarlorn]

https://i.imgur.com/xgZBThO.png

^ server community

[jpetrick]

Ya, but if at the start of the roll someone declares that the rules are "Your roll, Your tools, Your disc, /random 1000". And you then roll, you have consented to the rules, otherwise, if you have issue with them you should have brought it up BEFORE you rolled.

Therefore, if the rules are stated by someone BEFORE the roll, and you roll, you have consented to said player made agreement.

Its like being in a group that is alpha rotating gems, if someone says alpha, and no one says otherwise, you cant them ninja loot all the gems and tell them to point to the forum post where the Alpha Loot agreement is outlined and you can "sign up" for it. Thats just stupid logic.

You are obviously correct, however the person who created this thread seems to think that his version of the rules is the only rule set that may be used for scout.

[azeth]

No. There is no valid reason to force the turn-in person to loot the disc. Bring your own kill forces.

[Kauh boom]

Still wtb disc

[Kauh boom]

??

[Legidias]

Ya, but if at the start of the roll someone declares that the rules are "Your roll, Your tools, Your disc, /random 1000". And you then roll, you have consented to the rules, otherwise, if you have issue with them you should have brought it up BEFORE you rolled.

Therefore, if the rules are stated by someone BEFORE the roll, and you roll, you have consented to said player made agreement.

Its like being in a group that is alpha rotating gems, if someone says alpha, and no one says otherwise, you cant them ninja loot all the gems and tell them to point to the forum post where the Alpha Loot agreement is outlined and you can "sign up" for it. Thats just stupid logic.

THen you show up 2 mins before spawn, ooc "not rolling" and turn in. This is you you either need 100% agreement among players or a GM enforce rule.

Its way better to have a solidified base set up here besides just one side trying to enforce their entitlement rules and then a significant number of people disagreeing and turning into clickfest.

---

And no, this is not a solidified rule set until a GM says it is. Until then it is an open discussion on how to fairly decide loot. YOU as a player do not decide what all other players have to do, especially when a significant amount do not agree with you.

Deciding someone arbitrarily does not need it, is, in fact, not fair at all. So what if they dont specifically need it? As I said before, maybe they really could use it and are sporting bronze bracers @ 55, but they decide the 20k is better for them as it lets them get another item they are more in need of. Anyone could use 20k if sold. And someone said about turning up every 10 hours for a quick buck? Youre joining in every 10 hours for a quick loot. Its all the same, you are just greedy and want better chances for yourself.

Having 20 people show up and rolling means 20 people are taking their time, having gotten CoV faction on 20 people, and having gotten tools to show up. I am not part of some batphone crew and I do not have a playerbase guild that will all simulatenously log in to roll, so this doesnt apply to me. I have only ever been here with maybe 4? other people I am even distantly related to, andn we all needed it. However, it is completely fair to bring a whole raid force in to roll, as they are spending their time here instead of somewhere else.

You rolling 20 times is you just making a poor arguement that doesnt apply here.

Again, stop being greedy and feeling entitled to loot, just pray your dice are lucky as everyone else is doing.

[Legidias]

What you are proposing is a greedy agenda. Being able to provide weighted rolls for your friends so they can sell items is fucking greedy. I dont know how else to explain that to you. "They all showed up so they put in the time" does not apply when they are just showing up to ensure one person has an unfair advantage.

If I showed up every 10 hours and rolled 20 times, you would say "go fuck yourself" wouldn't you? It's the same thing.

Also, how is this a greedy agenda? I have not won turn in once despite showing up numerous times and rolling fairly. I do not bring a "roll squad" to roll with me. No one I am personally acquainted / friends with has sold disk rights. All I want is for this to be completely fair and unbiased. Bringing 20 people that all roll to let you win, means you have a great set of friends willing to spend their time to help you. How does people spending their time and energy not apply when they are, in fact, spending their time and energy?

Again, stop being greedy for yourself, let the loot be fairly distributed, and let go of your self-entitled loot.

[branamil]

I don't even need or want the ring, but voting no, we need less petitionable things, not more. By all means blacklist a player breaking a player-made agreement. God it must suck to be a GM right now, having a 1,000 item list for whiners and tattletales. I bet they go through a bottle of whiskey a week

[Pokesan]

Anyone could use 20k if sold.

looking forward to green guys :D

[amandaleigh]

jesus christ do I really have to explain NBG (Need before greed) to you Legidias? You dont roll on items in a group that arent an upgrade for you. You dont go to a pickup group and have 4 people from your guild roll for you and give you the item if they win. I dont know how you cant see his point on this.

[ErlickBachman]

Scout is a FTE turn-in quest mob. Rolling for turn-in and loot rights is a shit show. Period.

[AdrenolineLove]

Scout is a FTE turn-in quest mob. Rolling for turn-in and loot rights is a shit show. Period.

Not really. Why dont you come attend one? its worked great for months.

[RahlaeRuffian]

Scout is a FTE turn-in quest mob. Rolling for turn-in and loot rights is a shit show. Period.

Couldn't agree more. Its just more unnecessary dramatic bullshit that the peons of Norrath try to make classic function as non-classic.

[AdrenolineLove]

So, because this is how you decided the rules should be done, this is how everyone has to do that?

In that case, all Fungi Tunics that drop should automatically be handed to my toons. Feel free to not follow these rules, and i will enjoy petitioning you.

Did you realize how condescending, and elitist you actually come off while typing what you just typed, or are you so delusional that you actually think people should adhere to any rule you decide needs to be put in play?

"This isn't a discussion" That my friend, is what is wrong with this whole thread. You posted this with no intention of having a civilized conversation, but instead, just to make everyone do what you want.


Ayo check it out, look up top. This is a poll where you either agree or disagree. Once the vote is cast, we are trying to have a GM make this a rule. This isnt MY rule. This is the voted on rule. But thanks for trying.

[Legidias]

This has been the whole discussion this time. If this is NBG or general rolls. Even if youre in KC, and have a general NBG set up, if a T staff drops it is quite generally known to change and not be NBG anymore.

The whole point of this discussion is deciding the ruleset, and it isnt NBG yet. As evidence, even with the current way it is working, many, many, many people did not think it was NBG. Just because one person thinks it is, does not make it so. And what do you decide is NBG? What if the char is geared beyond belief with NToV gear, but simply lacks this bracer for say, +1 str over their current lesser bracer. Does that count? Hence, it is entirely NOT fair to arbitrarily decide who gets loot or not. This is just your inner greed talking and telling you to not allow others to roll since you feel entitled to loot.

IF you are in a pickup group, with 1 + 4 guildies + 1 rando, and loot is greed, guess what, its fair that if a guildie wins roll they can delegate to another guildie, as they won the loot, no matter what they decide to do with it.

Again, you are not a GM, you do not decide rules on the server. This is an open discussion, and the fact that some people are saying "No, I decided this 1 rule by myself to get better chance at loot, and anything you say is completely wrong" kinda upsets your whole rationale about making server a nicer place to play.

[Robbintha Hood]

Not really. Why dont you come attend one? its worked great for months.

Yeah, because a guy waiting for Scout for hours gets trumped by plebbs. Sounds very non-dramatic...

[Legidias]

Ayo check it out, look up top. This is a poll where you either agree or disagree. Once the vote is cast, we are trying to have a GM make this a rule. This isnt MY rule. This is the voted on rule. But thanks for trying.

Whats that? No GM response yet and no GM enforced rule? Oh yeah thats right cause this is a discussion about what rules to set and not your self entitlement thread. You dont get to decide what constitutes a majority and minority of people required to enforce a rule.

[Whirled]

If I'm online, I'll help whoever with this. I dont want to roll or any loot. Enjoy your game.

[Toomuch]

I haven't voted yet, I'm honestly on the fence about this. Below are some collected thoughts.

"Click-fest turn-in rights" is out. It's a cluster, and leaves way too much room for cheap manipulation, or even cheating, as was mentioned earlier. I think 95% of the server agrees with this, and the other 5% are the ones looking to get ahead with the cheap/cheating tactics.

Selling your roll/turn-in is out. It's crap, because there are other cash camps out there. I feel like this encounter should be about upgrades for characters that are needing for them, not profits.

After that, there's a lot of factors that start to come into play, so I went old fashioned with an over-the-top pros/cons list:

Pros of the "You roll for yourself, you turn in your own tools, you loot" method
1. Encourages mob to not be a "cash cow" for farmers, and instead limits participation to those players for whom it would be an upgrade only.
2. An unguilded/solo player, or player in a much smaller guild, has a higher chance of getting their upgrade if the masses aren't rolling on behalf of their friends/guildies.
3. There's a good chance that more people will still participate after losing the roll (before scout even pops), because everyone is there for more "pure" reasons, and has the mentality of "we're all in the same boat together". In other words, less people will be like "wtf, a seller/big-guild wins again. I'm sick of this - gating."
4. There might be more player participation from the lesser geared individuals if they know that those players that already have it (or better) will not be rolling. However, see point #1 in the cons, below.

Cons of the "You roll for yourself, you turn in your own tools, you loot" method
1. There will legitimately be less high-end participation if the people that already have it (or better) have nothing to personally gain (or gain for their friends/guildies) by being there, aside from helping in the event that a friend/guildy wins the roll. That means less clicky clerics there, less geared tanks, less people that know the encounter, etc. Encounter will probably still go just fine 90% of the time, but someone might pull the whole train of giants once or twice.
2. It goes against the concept of "fair representation." If a guild has 10 to 15 extra people show up for the scout roll (who honestly could could easily handle the encounter by themselves) good on them! Each person present is putting in the time and dedication, and each individual there is a person behind a monitor that feels like they deserve representation and a fair shake of the dice. Let's be clear and honest that it's very much not selfish of these individuals to want to help their friends and guildmates. Wouldn't it be great if we all had 10 or 15 helpful friends and guildmates that had our backs, and were going out of their way to come to scout, just to help us get geared? Isn't a LOT of Everquest all about getting friends and guildies together and helping each other get/accomplish things (often at the cost of other people not getting/accomplishing those same things)?

When I look at both sides of this, I honestly don't know... I think that as long as it's clarified, set in stone, and enforced, I'll be good with it either way.

[Legidias]

weve decided that any and all drops in game will be arbitrarily decided to who gets what. I get to decide. I agree with this statement, therefore you now have to follow my rules. No one shall every again camp an item, and sell it for cash!

[jpetrick]

Player made agreement cant be made if not all players agree to it. That defeats the whole purpose. If a player made agreement is something that a couple of people can agree on and force everyone else to adhere to, I'm going to start posting some insane agreements and have my friends agree to them.

East Commons Tunnel cannot be used to sell items going forward. All auctions must now be done inside of High Keep in the room behind the banker.

I like this agreement. It is now ratified.

[Fasttimes]

Hit me up. Racks on racks on racks. 24k x4 scout. Buying all day .

[Robbintha Hood]

Player made agreement cant be made if not all players agree to it. That defeats the whole purpose. If a player made agreement is something that a couple of people can agree on and force everyone else to adhere to, I'm going to start posting some insane agreements and have my friends agree to them.

East Commons Tunnel cannot be used to sell items going forward. All auctions must now be done inside of High Keep in the room behind the banker.

If Scout is gonna be roll a mob, then I support the removal of EC Tunnel Auctions in favor of Highkeep behind the banker. Also, I also vote that Fear Golems and Traknon be on roll between racing guilds. You see where Perissh getting at with this about Scout roll? Its a f*cking stupid rule change. Plain and simple.

[skarlorn]

not reading ANY of your thoughts on this.

put this thread in RNF so we can really go after each other's throats.

THanks Sir Ken of Sir Ken's Mayonnaise

[Bizban]

If you dont bring a force to kill scout you should not be rolling / having a chance to win a best in slot item click fest or not , i thought this was classic everquest ? not carebears r us ?

[thiz1234]

Wtb 3x scout paying more that lowballtimes. Let’s make it rain platinums!

[Fasttimes]

I tell all my $&$@! Rake it up. Hit me to sell some scouts.

[Urklurk]

OP is just scared sh*tless of the possibility of the return of Schfiftyfiver and Arthion...the two best clickers in game.

[Legidias]

OP is just scared sh*tless of the possibility of the return of Schfiftyfiver and Arthion...the two best clickers in game.

You mean, of course, some of the best software downloaders in game

[ErlickBachman]

Not really. Why dont you come attend one? its worked great for months.

Oh I have, and that's why I disagree with this roll crap to begin with. Let me ask you this, what prevents some nerd from bringing a stupid amount of his/her guildies and friends to roll for him/her so that he/she gets the item he/she desires? And don't say that crap doesn't happen, either. I've personally seen it at Scout rolls. It creates an unfair advantage where as the clickfest is more of a matter of skill, not turds in numbers.

[Legidias]

Clickfest was never a matter of skill. A group of people, about 4 or 5, would use .ini file editting and autoclickers to win.

[azeth]

Clickfest was never a matter of skill. A group of people, about 4 or 5, would use .ini file editting and autoclickers to win.

= most "FTEs" from 2009 -> 2016

[Bizban]

i keep seeing a lot of people talk about software and cheats to win a click fest ? ... i mean anyone with any basic computer knowledge can make a simple macro to click a NPC on spawn and click accept in the trade window so anyone with over a 3 IQ has the same possibility to win the clickfest.

[Foxplay]

Yes, because player civility and agreements like this should continue to rise above the Salty douche-canoe's

[ErlickBachman]

Clickfest was never a matter of skill. A group of people, about 4 or 5, would use .ini file editting and autoclickers to win.

I won my scout roll by proper placement of my toon and spamming the f*ck out of my mouse, I'm sorry if that didn't work out for you. But it worked for me :D

[amandaleigh]

Been playing this game a long time. Clickfest is shit. The few rolls I attended were superior, everyone was civil towards each other, everyone helped each other. I vote yes.

[Smurflogik]

Based on the status of the vote, it looks like the only people against the agreement are the vocal trolls in this thread, representing a small slice of the overall population.

Yes vote from me because there are TONS of camps/targets to compete over. A very small handful have player agreements in place (Sky, Ring War, etc.), and I think those agreements promote a healthier server, provided there are only a few of them.

[NecroP99]

Not sure how this would ever be enforceable whatsoever unless Sirken ruled on it. You do realize there are players who don't even read these boards right?

Honestly if someone just wanted to clickfest instead of roll they could right?

[azeth]

Been playing this game a long time. Clickfest is shit. The few rolls I attended were superior, everyone was civil towards each other, everyone helped each other. I vote yes.

This is how bad laws get passed through congress. Surface value says its for the greater good... but the details tell a different story.

This proposed new agreement has nothing to do with avoiding the click fest.

OP is trying to change the rules to force the winner to be the one to loot.

Don't pass a bad bill.

[Legidias]

Congrats on winning click one of the few times <Savage> wasnt there?

The thread isnt about clickfest at all, isntead this has been a discussion (well I tried to make it a discussion) about how to make it a good roll.

As stated above, OP is only trying to change rules to give himself better chance at loot, end of story.

Roll = ownership of mob, extremely simple.

vs

Roll = ownership of mob, only if you deserve it, according to a select criteria of which is not disclosed, and if arbitrarily accepted by one random person in forums who decides who gets what loot, is not simple and is not fair.

[Rygar]

Voted no because OP was coming unglued and abrasive and generally douchey. If someone more calm and distinguished like Skarlorn or Cloki proposed some terms I would vote yes.

[skarlorn]

Based on the status of the vote, it looks like the only people against the agreement are the vocal trolls in this thread, representing a small slice of the overall population.

Yes vote from me because there are TONS of camps/targets to compete over. A very small handful have player agreements in place (Sky, Ring War, etc.), and I think those agreements promote a healthier server, provided there are only a few of them.

currently there's 41 votes to Yes and 17 No votes

58 votes total.
70% vote for yes
30% vote for no

You say it's only a "small slice" and "it's only the vocal trolls." 30% is not a small slice, dude.

I'm obviously in favor of opening content up to the general public, as I spearheaded the Open Naggy/Vox agreement for this server.

This idea is just not going to fly in the p99 scene. You have 3/10 people disagreeing on a roll, which is about the same as it was when Velious dropped. This camp is not changing. It's going to be BiS for eternity on a server of autistic basement dwelling stay at home sons who don't stop at getting BiS on their character, or even their second character.

This thread is getting trolled because it's a futile idea proposed in an untimely manner and anyone who has been around long enough to have a sense of the server will know that this is just another shitpost starting with OP.

[Dreenk317]

THen you show up 2 mins before spawn, ooc "not rolling" and turn in. This is you you either need 100% agreement among players or a GM enforce rule.
.

Can, has, and does happen. The last time I saw it, everyone had rolled, some <savage> members, that had not rolled, made there way to the spawn point and it became a click fest. Everyone that had rolled began to click. The person that won the click had lost the roll, and yielded the disk to the roll winner. The clickfest had been purely to enforce the roll and limit the chances of the roll dodgers from interrupting the process. And it worked, granted it's not so obvious every time, and you can't always band together to win. And people won't always be so stand upish when things degenerate like that. But, the proof is in the pudding, I've tasted the pudding, and it was good.

[Legidias]

I already decided in forums and posted that I alone will dictate who gets what items, when will GM's respond and ban all these people selling items??!?!?

[Bizban]

this post has made my morning, just wanted to say thank you everyone <3 ROFL since when was this a game where you could just show up to an end game encounter no guild or group with you and win a best in slot item ? i mean hell might as well make everything in the game like this if that is the case , no more need to poopsock mobs or race to get FTE on earthquakes you show up and hit a mob once ur entitled to roll on the loot. Yeah this is real classic everquest tho lmfao

[Legidias]

Can, has, and does happen. The last time I saw it, everyone had rolled, some <savage> members, that had not rolled, made there way to the spawn point and it became a click fest. Everyone that had rolled began to click. The person that won the click had lost the roll, and yielded the disk to the roll winner. The clickfest had been purely to enforce the roll and limit the chances of the roll dodgers from interrupting the process. And it worked, granted it's not so obvious every time, and you can't always and together to win. And people won't always be so stand upish when things degenerate like that. But, the proof is in the pudding, I've tasted the pudding, and it was good.

And it is glorious when it happens

[Cecily]

This isn't really a discussion. These are the rules that have been set and you and everyone else can vote agree and disagree. You're welcome to voice your opinion as you'd please but as stated, these are the rules, agree or disagree.

As you can clearly see from the numbers, the majority of us agree. Therefore I am entitled to use "weve" anyway I please as I speak on the majority's behalf.

Feel free to not follow these rules and I will enjoy petitioning you.

Ill enjoy doing whatever the fuck I want when I win. I agree to roll. Extra rules are unnecessary.

[LiQuid]

Not sure how this would ever be enforceable whatsoever unless Sirken ruled on it. You do realize there are players who don't even read these boards right?

Honestly if someone just wanted to clickfest instead of roll they could right?
The fact that we've gone a month without a clickfest means the system is already working. The system which already includes people that don't come to this forum. This thread is just seeking to legitimize the rules that we've already been using.

[skarlorn]

I already decided in forums and posted that I alone will dictate who gets what items, when will GM's respond and ban all these people selling items??!?!?

I support this

[Legidias]

+1 fungi to skarlorn, the lord hath spoken

[Legidias]

The fact that we've gone a month without a clickfest means the system is already working. The system which already includes people that don't come to this forum. This thread is just seeking to legitimize the rules that we've already been using.

As can be seen here and in other thread, the only rule people have "already been using" is rolling to turn in. Apparently everyone had different idea what to do with disk. Hence. Discussion.

[Cecily]

Voted no because OP was coming unglued and abrasive and generally douchey. If someone more calm and distinguished like Skarlorn or Cloki proposed some terms I would vote yes.

Yeah. Voting yes to roll. Voting no to random literally <Anonymous> 2017 join dated control freak spaz's terms.
The only thing that needs to happen is that we agree as a server to make it a roll off.

[skarlorn]

i support whatever cecily thinks about this basically

[Smurflogik]

currently there's 41 votes to Yes and 17 No votes

You say it's only a "small slice" and "it's only the vocal trolls." 30% is not a small slice, dude.



It's a significant minority. Call it what you want, I suppose. It's a (relatively) small group of people shouting the loudest.

I like the agreement. You're entitled to your own opinion.

[NecroP99]

The fact that we've gone a month without a clickfest means the system is already working. The system which already includes people that don't come to this forum. This thread is just seeking to legitimize the rules that we've already been using.

This thread has done just the opposite in my estimation. It's pretty clear that a large segment of the population does not agree with this rule set. This is not something that should be unilaterally enforced because not all parties are consenting. The second this had 1 vote of no the agreement was invalid. however its not 1 vote is 30% of the votes

[LiQuid]

As can be seen here and in other thread, the only rule people have "already been using" is rolling to turn in. Apparently everyone had different idea what to do with disk. Hence. Discussion.

Yeah that appears to be the case. This bums me out because as I think I mentioned in the previous thread, 2 of my guildies came in first and 2nd just yesterday and the first place guy lost his tools, so the 2nd guy ended up winning. He was willing to give the disk to the guy that had actually won but we decided against it because we didn't want to mess with that I thought were well established need rules based on the previous month's worth of rolling.

So if the server is this split on whether or not the roll is for need or greed I'm going to try and organize as many of my guildies showing up to these until we can collectively win one for the guy who "won" yesterday.

[Cecily]

Why is it necessary to control who gets the disk? Give me one good reason. And, no, people who "need it" isn't a good enough one. This is coming from a person who has none of the five disks I "need" for my characters.

Allowing, and I use that word lightly you fucking control freak spaz OP, winners to sell would be a necessary concession to keep FTE clickers off the spawn I imagine. Whoever wins decides what they want to do with it. They played by the same rules and you can't just automatically say this valuable thing isn't for sale now because I made a poll.

[Legidias]

And that is perfectly fair. You can round up as many people as you want. Because its 100% fair and unbiased. Literally 0 salt.

I personally dont ask every person I know to roll for me, but it should be completely allowed.

[Cecily]

I'll get the torches.

[Pokesan]

forming a crew to roll for scout lootrights. all levels welcome.

[Legidias]

New guild: <Dial a Roll>

[LiQuid]

Why is it necessary to control who gets the disk? Give me one good reason. And, no, people who "need it" isn't a good enough one. This is coming from a person who has none of the five disks I "need" for my characters.

Allowing, and I use that word lightly you fucking control freak spaz OP, winners to sell would be a necessary concession to keep FTE clickers off the spawn I imagine. Whoever wins decides what they want to do with it. They played by the same rules and you can't just automatically say this valuable thing isn't for sale now because I made a poll.

I don't like the way OP framed this thread as being for the roll or against the roll but really it's about for need or for greed. But as someone on the side of making the roll need over greed, the reason why I'm for it is because I think opening it up to greed opens it up to abuse. What I proposed above, inviting 20 guildies to all roll for 1 person's benefit is abused in my mind. The biggest thing tho is that with this agreement, the people that are there all have a play nice agreement that we ALL help the winner kill the giant. We do this based on the assumption that the winner is going to use the item. So if the winner then turns around and sells the item it presents a situation where they basically "used" us to make a bunch of profit. Winning the roll isn't just a bypass of the clickfest, it's the assurance that the collective will help you with the pull and kill. If people want to turn around and greed this or give it to their low level alt I consider that super rude to "use" the people that just lost yet another roll to help them achieve that. It does add an extra layer of salt to what is weeks/months of showing up to these just to keep losing.

That's my opinion anyways. When I started showing up to these the person who was announcing the rules laid out what I thought were acceptable terms. 50+ need rolls, your own hand in, your own loot and based on that everyone would help with the kill. If people want to greed this I say the collective stops helping winners with the kill completely then and THAT ruins the sense of community.

[Cecily]

That's the beauty of letting the winner decide the fate of the quest piece. It accommodates NBG and greed players equally. Which, together, accounts for 99.95% of the player base. And would also benefit players who actively destroy quest rewards like Skarry and myself.

[Legidias]

The biggest thing tho is that with this agreement, the people that are there all have a play nice agreement that we ALL help the winner kill the giant. We do this based on the assumption that the winner is going to use the item.

Incorrect. People help the winner because when they win, they also expect people to help them, and then next time they roll for disk (to sell, for guildie, etc), they would also help next winner kill. Its a pay it forward system.
While play nice policy is great, I didnt realize EVERY person on the server goes out of their way to get people BiS gear for no benefit for themselves. Where do I sign up for a free kill force whenever theres gear I need?
---
Its not about need vs greed though. Its about being completely open and fair roll vs "I decide who gets to do what with loot".

What about the open dragon raids (which are really great in my opinion). Are you against a whole levelling guild showing up and having 30 people roll on say, white scales? What if they even said they only wanted it to sell and fund their guild adventures?

You cant just start saying who gets what loot. Everyone rolls, anyone can get the loot. Fair is Fair is Fair.

[LiQuid]

That's the beauty of letting the winner decide the fate of the quest piece. It accommodates NBG and greed players equally. Which, together, accounts for 99.95% of the player base. And would also benefit players who actively destroy quest rewards like Skarry and myself.

Ya but my point is the collective (and I admit I'm speaking for others here, but it seems to be the sentiment that drove this entire drama) wants to help the need players but doesn't want to help the greed players. I'm always more happy to see someone who shows up repeatedly finally win a roll and get the item they want and be done with the nonsense that is this stupid camp/mob/quest/whatever than I would be to see the same person show up to every one of these because it's the equivalent of buying a lottery ticket twice a day.

[Cecily]

I personally think people who sell this bottleneck quest are scum but I swear to god I'll burn this down to defend their right to do so. This isn't coordinating a dragon raid... A raid leader has a legitimate right to dictate loot distribution. This is literally a rando making STRONG rules about small group content.

[NecroP99]

Your point is you are upset Aikons won a roll and are now crying about it. He plays EQ more than just about anyone I know and if he wants to camp Scout you should not be able to tell him he cant. I also gurantee he didn't/doesn't need your kill force as he is able to rally his own troops fairly easily

[Legidias]

Why does one person deserve it over the other exactly? What entitles one person who is there exactly the same amount of time as another person to loot? Because they didnt win yet? Both people have put in the same effort to this. If one person convinced their whole cadre of 20 people to show up, thats even more effort. YOu know how hard it is to convince a group of 20 people to do something for you with no benefit to themselves? Based on this that person rolling 20 deep would deserve it more.

You see how doing this with a bias doesnt work?

I feel like I deserve a fungi. I have camped it many hours and have actually won 0 of them because of shitty rolls. If I show up and say "Hey, I didnt win this even though Ive camped it 50+ hours, so next one belongs to me" will everyone agree? Hell to the no.

[Legidias]

I personally think people who sell this bottleneck quest are scum but I swear to god I'll burn this down to defend their right to do so. This isn't coordinating a dragon raid... A raid leader has a legitimate right to dictate loot distribution. This is literally a rando making STRONG rules about small group content.

This. I honestly dont like people selling disk rights, but its their RIGHT to do so since they won roll.

[Cecily]

Your point is you are upset Aikons won a roll and are now crying about it. He plays EQ more than just about anyone I know and if he wants to camp Scout you should not be able to tell him he cant. I also gurantee he didn't/doesn't need your kill force as he is able to rally his own troops fairly easily


Yeah exactly. I'd be just as happy with kill rights and find my own force. If you're helping out with the kill out of the kindness of your heart, good for you. But if you wanna push your values on me while you're doing it, fuck off. I'll get my friends to help me.

[LiQuid]

I'll be honest I'm a little surprised to say I think the pro-greed guys are winning me over. I DO fully agree that people showing up to the lottery that don't need it are pretty scummy but it seems to happen so rarely. MOST people are there in good faith that they need the item and that's honestly good enough for me. All that means is that I will probably keep a character there with some tools so I can keep logging in for these even tho I've won on my main already. Might as well help the guildies out or gear up some alts if I can.

[Tenderizer]

Look at all the posts about "wtb disc" "you don't have friends ready" ect. These people are plat rich, have more than most and above all bored. They suggest things to benefit themselves/guilds exclusively, their members are willing to shitsock/dickbaggery to waste everyone's time, lock you out of loot and charge stupid prices then fuck with the markets like a big ol phat cats. Did I mention they need that disc market to spend that plat sitting around and gear their 5th alt on 3rd account faster than you?

From what I have heard scout is not that bad of a camp so why the fuck would people be campaigning to change that?

follow the plat

[Pokesan]

You cant just start saying who gets what loot. Everyone rolls, anyone can get the loot. Fair is Fair is Fair.

this a good idea. i have lots of alt plans that could use some funding. it would be even better if they could earn it themselves.

[skarlorn]

i support aikons

[Smurflogik]

I think the pro-greed guys are winning

Such is life.

[Cecily]

I'll be honest I'm a little surprised to say I think the pro-greed guys are winning me over. I DO fully agree that people showing up to the lottery that don't need it are pretty scummy but it seems to happen so rarely. MOST people are there in good faith that they need the item and that's honestly good enough for me. All that means is that I will probably keep a character there with some tools so I can keep logging in for these even tho I've won on my main already. Might as well help the guildies out or gear up some alts if I can.

Good! Good!

https://i.imgur.com/N21a05B.gif

[Tankdan]

You win, up to you where that loot goes.. It's 2017.

[Fasttimes]

Don't scout shame me brah.

[applesauce25r624]

Fatcats will prevail!

[applesauce25r624]

PS: REEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Fasttimes]

I will buy scout disks and bump stocks if I want to.

[NecroP99]

Applesauce has the all time winning signature - I really need to get on your level - genuine /bow to your glory

[Freakish]

I have no stake in this issue but it seems OPs thread died with him trying to change the current rules in place. This thread rly means nothing tho, Even if some agreed to these terms you can not shove this down the throats of people that do not agree with your changes, People also have 0 obligation to follow the current agreement also.The only thing I see this thread doing is dividing people and eventually making this a clickfest again due to disagreements in these rules.

I can summarize this whole paragraph into a single sentence.

"Don't rock the boat."

[Triiz]

OP you did a pretty terrible job of making your case. I generally support players working together so was going to vote yes, but you persuaded me to not vote at all.

Reminder: These items make you 1% or less more efficient at killing every mob in the game. People showing up every day for months for a marginally better item, holy shit. If you want it that bad you might as well farm the plat and buy the loot rights.

Also reminder: Vox/Naggy have been on this server for ~8 years and neckbeards just agreed to let casuals have a player made agreement for them like a month ago. Gonna take at least another 5 years for them to relinquish control of Scout loot rights to casuals.

[Croco]

I personally think people who sell this bottleneck quest are scum but I swear to god I'll burn this down to defend their right to do so. This isn't coordinating a dragon raid... A raid leader has a legitimate right to dictate loot distribution. This is literally a rando making STRONG rules about small group content.

That's a strange hill to die on imo.

This isn't a democracy. There are no rights. Greed rollers can foad.

[Canelek]

Is this a potential RMT loss for some folks? Otherwise, I do not see the issue. OP should have been a bit more diplomatic about the proposal though.

[eudaimonia_etc]

One thought: change the quest so the giants pop when scout pops, and add variance. Make the Captain an FTE mob like Lodi, etc. This would be in line with how essentially every other significant item camp / minor raid mob is. Not classic, but very P99 and we do play on P99.

I like the communal spirit of rolling, and would prefer that, but there are a variety of implementation challenges as this thread demonstrates.

[Legidias]

One thought: change the quest so the giants pop when scout pops, and add variance. Make the Captain an FTE mob like Lodi, etc. This would be in line with how essentially every other significant item camp / minor raid mob is. Not classic, but very P99 and we do play on P99.

I like the communal spirit of rolling, and would prefer that, but there are a variety of implementation challenges as this thread demonstrates.

Rolls work fine for me, but if you wanted FTE race you dont need to change mob behaviour so much. Just make turn in an FTE race from SG ZL or DN or something. But its not really a raid mob soooooo.... rolls better

[Phatez]

The majority of the players at scout roll are casual scum.

OP you did a pretty terrible job of making your case. I generally support players working together so was going to vote yes, but you persuaded me to not vote at all.

Reminder: These items make you 1% or less more efficient at killing every mob in the game. People showing up every day for months for a marginally better item, holy shit. If you want it that bad you might as well farm the plat and buy the loot rights.

Also reminder: Vox/Naggy have been on this server for ~8 years and neckbeards just agreed to let casuals have a player made agreement for them like a month ago. Gonna take at least another 5 years for them to relinquish control of Scout loot rights to casuals.

[Fasttimes]

None of this would have happened if A-team didn't get epics.

[Cecily]

That's a strange hill to die on imo.

This isn't a democracy. There are no rights. Greed rollers can foad.

These type of posts are amazing.

https://i.imgur.com/msFY1BV.gif

[LiQuid]

Another scout roll went off without a hitch. Embrace the power of positivity, you shitlords. :D

[Maner]

Another scout roll went off without a hitch. Embrace the power of positivity, you shitlords. :D

No one was saying they would prefer a clickfest over a roll off, they are just saying you pushing your opinion that the winner should have to then also loot the disk is a horrible one. Yet you continue to prove yourself to be unable to comprehend that every time you post. Notice how even he OP has stopped replying, he sees that it is a losing battle and he has been out voted.

No one is campaigning against your roll off for scout, just your ignorant assumption that the only people who should be allowed to roll are those who would use the item.

[Cecily]

It makes me sad we're on the same side of an argument. OP, I concede to your terms.

[LiQuid]

No one was saying they would prefer a clickfest over a roll off, they are just saying you pushing your opinion that the winner should have to then also loot the disk is a horrible one. Yet you continue to prove yourself to be unable to comprehend that every time you post. Notice how even he OP has stopped replying, he sees that it is a losing battle and he has been out voted.

No one is campaigning against your roll off for scout, just your ignorant assumption that the only people who should be allowed to roll are those who would use the item.
You must have missed me reversing my stance on that a few pages ago. It's a big dumb thread so I don't blame you for not being able to keep up. Some people at the roll thought this thread was signalling a regression back to the old clickfest ways and I assured them that wasn't the case. The roll happened as if this thread didn't even exist.

[Rufus1]

I have 3 level 20 characters and have no idea what item this roll gets you. I will also most likely never hit a level where this matters to me but I voted yes anyway.

[Maner]

You must have missed me reversing my stance on that a few pages ago. It's a big dumb thread so I don't blame you for not being able to keep up. Some people at the roll thought this thread was signalling a regression back to the old clickfest ways and I assured them that wasn't the case. The roll happened as if this thread didn't even exist.

I didnt miss it at all, you seemed to flip back to your original stance with the comment "embrace the power of positivity, you shitlords". Meaning that you actually think that all these no votes are people against rolling and not just the OP lumping that you have to also loot the disk with rolling for turn in rights.

[Pokesan]

I have 3 level 20 characters and have no idea what item this roll gets you. I will also most likely never hit a level where this matters to me but I voted yes anyway.

grind some faction and get rich lil buddy :)

[Smurflogik]

Notice how even he OP has stopped replying, he sees that it is a losing battle and he has been out voted.

I get your point, as the comments kinda turned against him, but he wasn't out-voted. The yes's have the vote almost 2-to-1, currently.

[Cecily]

The poll is "Do you agree to roll on scout?" The thread and OP are talking about something else entirely. The yes votes aren't necessarily on his side, like mine for example. Whole thing feels like a dirty EULA.

[Smurflogik]

He outlined his stance pretty well with the first post. Guess everything is open to interpretation.

[Maner]

I thought this as well. The subsequent arguing thereafter with RMT lord and the OP reinforced the OPs specific roll suggestion.

I was also under the impression that for an entitire month the players involved have been rolling to personally loot, not sell, until recently (for the most part at least).

The typical poopsockers upsetting this month of friendly rolling is the reason for this threads existence. Sadly this will never be a "player made agreement" for the obvious reasons not every player is in agreement. However it could still be made to change based on a majority vote, no matter how unlikely that will be.

I also don't get the issue with rolling to loot. I imagine the Only people who would be against it are those that don't need it, have enough plat after 5 years of EQing so wants to purchase it out of laziness, want to snag one for a guildy/alt or want to snag one to sell. It being classic isn't a solid argument since this is p99, literally the least classic, classic EQ server in existence.

Personally I don't see anything changing about scout.

Nothing was different the previous month except maybe there was a streak where everyone who won the roll actually used it. But i can 100% guarantee that there were people there rolling with the intention of selling the loot rights.

[Kesselring]

Also disagree with forcing loot. As stated in other thread, I personally have never even won a roll but I believe rolling = ownership of mob, and not designated loot. People win to MQ or give to guild, other person can win next time for themselves / bring their own buddies. As long as someone is committing the time / effort to get there and wait / roll, they have a fair shot at rolling for OWNERSHIP of mob / loot meaning they can do with it as they will.

Also, player made rules are only for people who agreed to it. Technically if someone didnt roll and decided to clickfest (as has happened), they would be in the right (legally, not morally) to ignore rolls altogether. Just stating on forum doesnt work. Even OOCing in WW prior to roll doesnt work, as they can just ooc "I do not agree to roll." and then be in the clear to clickfest. If they rolled and THEN click fest, there should be immediate suspension / ban, but they need to agree to roll in the first place. There needs to be something to solve this, but I have no solution to this.


If you didnt have BoB/Talisman and you were on ur first char and in a guild that eeryone needed those items and had no motivation to roll for others before themselves would you still say the same thing?

[Legidias]

As they should be able to, since rolling only gives you rights to the mob. Theres no reason this one encounter is different. Everyone has earned their chance to roll, and no one is entitled to special benefits. This is not your guild showing up to raid a mob for your benefit, this is random people coming together to make it a fair shot for everyone involved.

If you didnt have BoB/Talisman and you were on ur first char and in a guild that eeryone needed those items and had no motivation to roll for others before themselves would you still say the same thing?

I have stated multiple times I have not ever won a charisa roll. I do not have a bob / talisman on my main or any alts. I still believe mob belongs to roller and any way they want to do loot belongs to them. Because this is completely fair and unbiased. You do not get to tell someone what they do with loot. I personally do not get any benefit from this. However, I am not greedy and do not feel self entitled to loot which everyone else here has spent time to try and get, selling the rights to loot or no.

[Savok]

I would like to think that I'm in a big guild and I will definitely say that I have won my fair share of wins (looking for 1 more!), but every roll I have won has been looted by myself. With the proposal of 'you win you do what you want' I can definitely see the bigger guilds coming in to out-roll (by numbers) smaller groups or individuals, and/or those who don't need or want to greed sell their win. If you think there are a lot of people at Scout now just wait for the numbers to explode. Keeping the roll 'you win you loot' will keep these numbers down for those who actually want the upgrade. Once I get another bracer I never want to see Scout again.

I do love seeing an unguilded toon who otherwise would have no chance of winning against the giants on their own come up with a pretty decent piece of gear as much as seeing a raid level toon looking to max out their resists. I'll congratulate either just the same on a job well done and notate +10 hours for the next cycle.

To me turning up to an item you don't need is the same as those who farm AC rings or Fungis or such - you know the person who is there every f$%#ing day to farm multiple drops to sell when they could just let the camp go to someone else who needs it. It becomes a vicious cycle of person A farms item to sell and person B has to farm pp to buy item from person A causing person C who would exp/use drops person B is killing to go and kill player D's mobs etc.

It's a game, play to have fun but don't play at someone else's expense. Grow the F$%k up.

[loramin]

It seems to me this could all be solved very simply. When you agree to the terms of the roll, you should have to specify whether or not you are rolling for yourself. This would have no effect on your winning the roll. Why? Because the roll is about avoiding autofire and similar macro clicking issues, nothing else.

So why declare that it's not for you? Because a lot of people who happily help with the fight after may not want to help someone doing it for a friend, or doing it to sell. If they're going to help someone, it seems reasonable that they should get to know who they're ultimately helping.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like the option that will satisfy the most people. Equally important, it would actually be viable (since, as we have to remember, everything about this is "opt-in"), because as part of a valid player-made agreement the GMs could intervene if someone lies.

[Kesselring]

As they should be able to, since rolling only gives you rights to the mob. Theres no reason this one encounter is different. Everyone has earned their chance to roll, and no one is entitled to special benefits. This is not your guild showing up to raid a mob for your benefit, this is random people coming together to make it a fair shot for everyone involved.



I have stated multiple times I have not ever won a charisa roll. I do not have a bob / talisman on my main or any alts. I still believe mob belongs to roller and any way they want to do loot belongs to them. Because this is completely fair and unbiased. You do not get to tell someone what they do with loot. I personally do not get any benefit from this. However, I am not greedy and do not feel self entitled to loot which everyone else here has spent time to try and get, selling the rights to loot or no.

It's not telling someone what they do with loot, its them getting the loot for an upgrade. That's how people want it, I'm just trying to get you to understand that. It isn't some sort of DKP system that just because you put in time you get to decide what u want to do with the item you spend your DKP on. Anyways, I don't care either way. If we gonna let other people loot it if their friend wins the roll then I'll start showing up for my friends, no biggie to me either way. Like I said I'm just trying to tell you why people think it should be this way and not the other.

[ErlickBachman]

The poll is "Do you agree to roll on scout?" The thread and OP are talking about something else entirely. The yes votes aren't necessarily on his side, like mine for example. Whole thing feels like a dirty EULA.

Thats because it is a dirty EULA from someone who wants the server to bend the knee to his/her lack of skill in a 18 year-old elf sim.

[Legidias]

You dont win this by exclusion (as also IRL several points in history have shown). You exclude people from being able to sell, then they show up with a separate roll to sell and it turns into clickfest.

No one here yet on the arbitrary loot side has answere why YOU deserve it more than someone who has showed up to just as many as you have, even though they might have won it already.

No, it is entirely people trying to decide what others can do with loot from a mob. It is not about upgrade, it is about people who feel self entitled to loot. If youre gonna argue about its not about time, then sure, you have even 1 less leg to stand on. THen you have no arguement whatsoever as to who """"deserves"""" loot.

And again, if you can convince 20 people to show up to roll for you, good job on having 20 peopel willing to sacrifice their time for you.

I understand your side as well, and Im trying to calmly explain to YOU how it is a biased way to do loot. This is not a loot council raid, you do not get to designate who gets loot.

[Zemus]

It seems to me this could all be solved very simply. When you agree to the terms of the roll, you should have to specify whether or not you are rolling for yourself. This would have no effect on your winning the roll. Why? Because the roll is about avoiding autofire and similar macro clicking issues, nothing else.

So why declare that it's not for you? Because a lot of people who happily help with the fight after may not want to help someone doing it for a friend, or doing it to sell. If they're going to help someone, it seems reasonable that they should get to know who they're ultimately helping.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like the option that will satisfy the most people. Equally important, it would actually be viable (since, as we have to remember, everything about this is "opt-in"), because as part of a valid player-made agreement the GMs could intervene if someone lies.

+1

Don’t know if I have ever ran into loramin in game, but his arguments are so damn reasonable. Big fan, big fan.

[Legidias]

It seems to me this could all be solved very simply. When you agree to the terms of the roll, you should have to specify whether or not you are rolling for yourself. This would have no effect on your winning the roll. Why? Because the roll is about avoiding autofire and similar macro clicking issues, nothing else.

So why declare that it's not for you? Because a lot of people who happily help with the fight after may not want to help someone doing it for a friend, or doing it to sell. If they're going to help someone, it seems reasonable that they should get to know who they're ultimately helping.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like the option that will satisfy the most people. Equally important, it would actually be viable (since, as we have to remember, everything about this is "opt-in"), because as part of a valid player-made agreement the GMs could intervene if someone lies.

Sounds fair. Most assholes showing up to sell disk rights have kill force anyways.

[Pokesan]

you see, the people objecting to my rolling to sell are extremely self entitled. furthermore,

[loramin]

Loramin's compromise seems like a good middle ground tho people can just lie.

In theory they can't though. Let's say Bob agrees to the roll conditions, and says he's rolling for himself, then he wins the roll and gets help with the fight. Then Bob gives the loot rights to someone else (friend, guildmate, person who gave him plat, whoever). If anyone sees it happen they can petition.

Since Bob entered in to a player made agreement when he told everyone "please help me this is for myself", and since the staff has stated (I believe) that they will enforce such agreements ... plus since there's a general rule about not defrauding people (and Bob essentially defrauded everyone who helped him), in theory he would suffer consequences.

[Canelek]

Aside from gaining CoV faction and walking to quest giver within Skyshrine, is there actually any effort involved prior to the turn in?

As for the actual encounter, if I understand correctly, the folks rolling on the opportunity help with the encounter, since it is rather silly to have to bring a group in the current landscape.

So, with this quest being extremely short (faction work aside) and simple, what is the hangup aside from potential profitability (plat or RMT)? Despite the very nice quest rewards, let's not pretend these items take extreme effort (or DKP) to achieve.

That being said, I am all for a roll and all for the winner of said roll doing whatever he wants with it just like every other casual greed item. It may not be fair with the /more dedicated/ players bringing their hairy pals along to weigh the odds, but it is not like one has to being a group along to have a shot, and it is sure as shit better than competing a click with some jackass with a macro-app thingy.

And fair is not exactly classic. Classic is the all about the "vehement dedication" of playtime and general neckbeard strength.

On Veeshan there was this one guy named Eudas who 6-boxed content and pissed off most people. But at the end of the day, dude had six boxes going around 1999-2001 or so, which was pretty damn dedicated. Dude probably had toenails entwining with the pepperoni-laced neckbeard hair due to said dedication.

That was certainly classic. Weird as shit, but classic.

What were we talking about?

Er

Yeah

[Nathaniel]

From reading this thread now it seems those who don't agree are the ones posting the most. Some even seem to wanna give the image that they are "winning". However the poll result speak for itself.

I also wonder how many of those who voted "no" here are currently frequenting Scout rolls? Proably not many. If we would take this poll among the people that are actually going out to WW every 10 hours, the difference between "yes" and "no" would be much, much bigger.

Also, the "problem" is not as big as it may seem in this thread. Most scout rolls are going really well and most people respects that they are rolling for their own character.


It seems to me this could all be solved very simply. When you agree to the terms of the roll, you should have to specify whether or not you are rolling for yourself. This would have no effect on your winning the roll. Why? Because the roll is about avoiding autofire and similar macro clicking issues, nothing else.

So why declare that it's not for you? Because a lot of people who happily help with the fight after may not want to help someone doing it for a friend, or doing it to sell. If they're going to help someone, it seems reasonable that they should get to know who they're ultimately helping.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like the option that will satisfy the most people. Equally important, it would actually be viable (since, as we have to remember, everything about this is "opt-in"), because as part of a valid player-made agreement the GMs could intervene if someone lies.

Good post. I understand that we can't force the agreement on everyone, but for those rolling to give away lootrights for whatever reason, please let this be known before pull so people have the choice of not helping with the kill. You should bring your own force in this case imo.

[Jimjam]

In fairness to those who disagree with the agreement of course they are less likely to attend participate in an agreement they disagree with.

I definitely benefitted from the "winner supply tools / loots disc" rules on my ranger. The rest of my toons are either wrong faction or of a level where I feel I'd be taking advantage of the system if I rolled so I don't tend to attend so much any more.

I probably would attend more often if I were permitted to donate my roll to another player. I'm not too interested in accumulating plat I won't spend but I do enjoy helping out my allies. As far as I understand there is still always an excess of people attending, so by providing a warm body I wouldn't really be helping anyone at this point.

[scaura]

Eduas the Shanan with 6 boxes and got the first lvl 65 welcome back memories!

[Teako]

Hello friends!

This needs to be said on the forums and agreed upon because apparently people think they can break the rules and use the excuse "it doesn't say that anywhere" even though everyone who has been attending is well aware of the rules.

Sirken has stated that he will be enforcing player made rules so it is imperative that we get people agreeing on this on the forums so we have something to petition when people decide they want to do whatever they want.

THE RULES ARE AS FOLLOW FOR ROLLING SCOUT CHARISA:

1) YOU MUST HAVE THE TOOLS. You win the roll, you turn in tools, you loot the disc. If you do not follow this rule you will be petitioned. This is to prevent someone with 40 friends showing up who don't need it and creating a weighted roll for that one person.

2) PLEASE STAY AND HELP. This is not required but more of a courtesy. It's a 5-10 minute ordeal, dont be a salty loser, help the people who are one day going to help you in return. We all have real lives and sometimes you cant always stick around, but if you can, please do.

3) IN THE EVENT YOU CLICKFEST. You will be petitioned. You are breaking the playerwide agreement. The entire reason we're doing this is to keep it fair for the people showing up. Clickfest has been proven to be a shit show and I've heard it from a former GM that they are aware people can edit .ini files to insta-turn in. We will not be clickfesting anymore.

4) ROLLING TIME. We all agree to roll at a specific time, usually about 5 minutes or so before the spawn time. You will be allowed to roll up until Scout pops. Your roll will not be negated just because you didn't roll the exact 30 seconds everyone else rolls. All rolls are valid until Scout pops.

May the gods of your choice bless your dice.

Absolutely none of this is enforceable. Player made agreements over raids are enforced because they matter, but not over random misc bullshit like "lists", "roll times" etc. You want to have a butt-buddy fest and share the love CSG style? Sure. Go ahead... But nobody's getting banned over handing in a scout charisa without rolling. Just wont happen. Not classic at all as well.

I know you're *trying* to force something you *think* is good here. I get it. But genuinely, nobody has to do this at all. It's completely voluntary, and if someone walks up and hands it in petitioning them will only waste staff time deleting your petition doing nothing. All any player at all has to do is say, "I did not agree or consent to being a part of this roll." and that's the end of the story. Even if they agreed last spawn to roll, they are not bound to any form of internet-cyber-contractz to roll for any reason. Threatening to petition people for DANK GM BANZ over something you made up is silly.

Just don't play with them any more or help them if you don't agree with what they're doing. Threatening them is just immature.

Sorry to have been the bearer of bad news.

[thiz1234]

Still looking to buy Disc loot rights!

[Legidias]

You realize not everyone voting yes are voting for his rules? People voting yes to roll, not to loot council.

Thread is misleading from the start. OP states this as if its only this way or click. Which is completely untrue. Just be true to roll, you roll, you win mob. End. Dont need to make it more complicated and people arent entitled to loot just because they dont have it. I dont have it, you dont see me complaining about muh entitled loot.

[Legidias]

Because people have explicitly said it in this here thread. Its no assumption at all. I didnt say everyone, I said that not everyone voting yes is agreeing with OP. They just agree with a roll.

Keep on trucking with your loot entitlement tho. No one yet has answered why they believe they deserve loot more than someone else.

[Naethyn]

Server staff have said multiple times that if the community comes together and establishes an agreement it will be enforced.

[loramin]

Server staff have said multiple times that if the community comes together and establishes an agreement it will be enforced.

Indeed, but the tricky part is that (as far as I know) they haven't specified what exactly qualifies as "the community coming together".

When the issue is guild/raid related it's reasonable to count guild leader votes, but for something that (potentially) involves all players I suspect they'd want more to see more than just an forum poll (even a 70/30 one) ... especially since I can't remember anything official on P99 ever being settled by a forum poll.

[Legidias]

How is denying someone else loot based on your personal preference not deciding you deserve it more than them exactly?

Regardless of where item ends, they are there, they showed up, they got cov faction.

I do not like that people sell disk loot rights, but they sure as hell should be able to. Fair = you roll for ownership. End. No loot council. Not some rando in forum deciding where loot ends up. What is your definition of fair?

I can't stop you from perceiving something that doesnt make sense, but you should know it really doesnt make sense.

I still go to scout and want the drop. I will not stop someone from selling disk rights and will help them out since its the nice thing to do.

[Fasttimes]

All that matters is the electoral vote anyways.

[Check12345]

p99
what a server
what a community

a vote of yes is a vote against aids

[Crashking]

Player made agreement cant be made if not all players agree to it. That defeats the whole purpose. If a player made agreement is something that a couple of people can agree on and force everyone else to adhere to, I'm going to start posting some insane agreements and have my friends agree to them.

East Commons Tunnel cannot be used to sell items going forward. All auctions must now be done inside of High Keep in the room behind the banker.

I just have to say 2 things here.... 1: OMG 20 pages already and Goblins of Highkeep post only went 13. And 2: While Highkeep would be nice spot to do trade with since banker is right there and its basically middle of the continent I can only see Highkeep go to hell due to all the people logged in thus causing more lag then needed for the zone -- So much for paradise.

But back to the OP: Um this isn't a discussion.. its a POLL - ie a place to vote if you agree or disagree as those are the only choices. Now there could have been another thread that was more of a discussion thread. So based on what I see, I have to say disagree... Please point out the discussion thread and I'd be happy to discuss other view points. As for selling of MQ's... this should be outlawed period, earn your coppers the old fashion way.... GRIND for them. The whole economy of selling things just makes things worse for the game overall -- it certainly would be a whole different game if you could only sell to or buy from vendor NPCs -- no more 40k+ items, you toon would just have to earn things maybe actually go to the camp and kill for it, sucker others into being social and helping out. No more people coming by to farm something hoping to pawn it off to someone else and instead the spot might actually be open to give another person a shot at said item.

Also as for OP.. hate to say but this is 99 Blue the EQ experiment to 99 Green where GM's might have different rulesets or other things implemented to avoid major issues, like Epic MQ sales where lvl 1 rouges could have it, oh wait they did something about that already. Maybe Rogean/Nilbog will make up a rule against pick pocketing mobs from a camped area ... hmm Don't see anyone discussing that one or bolstering to have something done about it, I mean hey isn't the reason someone normally camps something is for the loots.

Anyway.. where was that discussion thread again regarding ways to deal with scout... eh maybe I should just get back to the game so I can have the right faction to do things when I want to do them.

[Jimjam]

NBG votes will never make it thru the House of Commons (East division).

[Kesselring]

I imagine people voting no aren't voting no because of the roll but because in your clauses they can't roll for their best buds. Imo a roll is good enough than a clickfest. Let people do what they will with their winnings. If they wanna sell it or give it to a friend maybe they should be allowed. Scout isn't like ring 8 where you gotta do a shitty line of quests. Also it's not as long of a wait. I do see what you're getting at by wanting to keep the rollers to people who actually are looting it but that just means as soon as you win you never come back to help. One guy can show up for his first roll ever and win and then never be seen again helping other people with it. Which happens a lot.

[dbouya]

I voted disagree. Because I disagree with this thread. I don't think this is AT ALL WHATSOEVER what sirken had in mind when he said "player agreements."

You can't refer to this poll for the next year, that's not a binding rule. I do agree though. If I were there I'd agree and then roll. Then I'd keep my word. I disagree with this type of thread though. I don't think it's enforceable, because we don't have 807 sticky thread polls.

In fact maybe I shouldn't've voted because this thread is meaningless.

[kb2005]

Voted no coz I don't think players should be able to post a set of rules and expect it to be binding for everyone on the server. This thread trying to set a bad precedent, IMO.

[danzig]

Gonna guess that the last 20 pages contains a lot of people getting more passionate about this issue than they've felt in years.

[aaezil]

Voted no coz I don't think players should be able to post a set of rules and expect it to be binding for everyone on the server. This thread trying to set a bad precedent, IMO.

I think most sane people echo this sentiment

[jilena]

Voted no as the initial post is far too angsty. I would be fine with a roll but all of the other unnecessary nonsense needs to be stripped out. Yawn.

[Llaile]

No

[Freakish]

This is now law. Sticky please.

[Skew]

No.
If you win roll and have tools you can do what you want with the mob/disc.

[Troxx]

Voted no simply because no such msg board agreement is binding unless 100% of the community is behind it.

It's a great thought, but no.

An easier solution would be to find a creative way to disable the profitability. Could change the quest mob to give the person who turns in tools a second item that must be turned in along with disk to make sure you can't just loot disk.

If you take profit out of the equation the field gets opened up to people looking to finish for their own characters.

/shrug

It's sad that this many months into velious this quest is still a clickfest. The mob is up every 10 hours for fucks sake.

[LiQuid]

This mob is NOT a clickfest. Everybody that shows up to these, rolls on them. There hasn't been a clickfest or someone jump the line and hand in without rolling in MONTHS. It has been civil, despite what this and the other Scout thread suggests.

There hasn't been a dispute between people wanting to roll and not wanting to roll at all. Everyone agrees that roll is preferable to clickfest.

The dispute is and has always been about what the winner can do with the disk after the giant is dead. Half of the people feel like it should ONLY go to the person that won and half of the people think that it should be up to the winner what they do with it (read: let a friend loot it or sell the loot rights). THIS is what caused this entire debate in the first place and it is still unresolved and will likely never be resolved.

I think the fact that there's even a roll at all is a win and people need to stop trying to police what winners do with the disk. Because if you do that, the type of people that just want to sell loot rights are going to resort to skipping the roll and just clicking for FTE and that will revert the entire mob back into an FTE race. It's rare enough for someone to even sell loot rights that it's honestly not worth disrupting what's already working cause you're bent out of shape that one person made 20k for /ran 1000'ing higher than you whereas had YOU won, all you would have gotten was a nearly best in slot item for your class.

[Skew]

This mob is NOT a clickfest. Everybody that shows up to these, rolls on them. There hasn't been a clickfest or someone jump the line and hand in without rolling in MONTHS. It has been civil, despite what this and the other Scout thread suggests.

There hasn't been a dispute between people wanting to roll and not wanting to roll at all. Everyone agrees that roll is preferable to clickfest.

The dispute is and has always been about what the winner can do with the disk after the giant is dead. Half of the people feel like it should ONLY go to the person that won and half of the people think that it should be up to the winner what they do with it (read: let a friend loot it or sell the loot rights). THIS is what caused this entire debate in the first place and it is still unresolved and will likely never be resolved.

I think the fact that there's even a roll at all is a win and people need to stop trying to police what winners do with the disk. Because if you do that, the type of people that just want to sell loot rights are going to resort to skipping the roll and just clicking for FTE and that will revert the entire mob back into an FTE race. It's rare enough for someone to even sell loot rights that it's honestly not worth disrupting what's already working cause you're bent out of shape that one person made 20k for /ran 1000'ing higher than you whereas had YOU won, all you would have gotten was a nearly best in slot item for your class.

tldr

gonna go with random-win-sell and if thats a problem i can give you a free guided tour of my ball sack at night with specs op grade nightvision goggles.

[danzig]

If random-win-sell is what it takes to get Skew to roll then you guys should do it.

His trash talking at rolls will be well worth it.

Voting for RWS.