Rogue poisons

[Kelor]

When do these come in handy on rogue? i'm guessing there all pretty useless for groups?

Is there any point me even bothering to lvl the skill up?

[GinnasP99]

With a high enough skill you can make the mind melt poison, which is used for tainted avalanche ale (ring 9). But I believe that the mind melt poison is tradable (or the tainted ale MQable) so you really don't need the skill to complete the quest at all.

Other than that, there are a few poisons that are good in PvP, stuns/snares etc. And i suppose making poisons is just kinda fun (maybe?)

[Ravager]

Never messed around much with them myself, despite skilling it up fairly high. I always liked the Contact I poison though, because it's easy and cheap to make and gives you a little boost to your DPS if you're in an epeen measuring contest with someone who likes to parse damage tables.

[Swish]

Muscle Lock is good for pvp. If you're on blue though it's missable.

If you're losing a dps race as a rogue you're either out-RNG'd by someone who got lucky, a bad rogue or stupid for wanting to race a wizard :D

[Cecily]

Something to do when you're level 60, rich, and bored.

[skarlorn]

contact one was barely useful on my rogue in auld lang syne for the times i tried to solo shit. but even then it wasn't worth the bag space ultimately

[Ravager]

Pretty much. But it still has a novelty appeal, like Gnomish Fireworks or Illusionist Stone.

[Skew]

Poisons just get resisted by far too much content to be remotely worthwhile if thats what youre looking at.
Its really for roleplay/tick off a tradeskill/mindmelt.

[Tnair]

contact one was barely useful on my rogue in auld lang syne for the times i tried to solo shit. but even then it wasn't worth the bag space ultimately

Currently 36 Rogue in ALS as well, can confirm poisons are NOT useful for the most part. But they are super fun, so I keep a Bearskin Potion Bag full of them anyway. They add a lot of immersive flavor when you're on an assassination mission =)

PvP Rogues apparently relied heavily on certain poisons. If you are made of plat, they *could* improve your PvE soloing, technically, but...basically everywhere a rogue poison will actively help and be worth it, it will be resisted quite often, and if the mob is low enough to land poison on the regular then it's probably soloable without it.

[Cecily]

I feel like spamming spine break on everything you try to solo couldn't possibly be a bad thing.

[Tnair]

I feel like spamming spine break on everything you try to solo couldn't possibly be a bad thing.

Maybe when I am higher level and made of plat, and also do not need my bag space for loot and can fill it with unstackable poison vials instead ... in theory I could fill my entire spare inventory with spine break vials for a total of 40 procs for 100+ plat and maybe a half hour of crafting.

EDIT: Also soloing has generally proven a bad idea so far for me, and poison hasn't been powerful enough to allow me to reliably solo blues. I'll try your idea at some point, let us know if you do before then what happens =)

[Tnair]

Maybe when I am higher level and made of plat

You're right, Spine Break is great. The first genuinely powerful poison. I'm 40 now and Spine Break lets me solo low blues without the 30% risk of death I'd otherwise face. Still expensive and time-consuming but fun and, now, somewhat useful. Probably still useless on raids or against any target yellow or higher, as resists are real bad for rogue poisons.

[Cecily]

I'm glad you like it! Figured a 50% slow would come in handy. Curious about what you mentioned about inventory space. Are you preparing all the poison at once or just making it as you go? 40 vials, 40 suspensions, 20 thorny ergot, 20 delphinium, and an empty mortar and pestle would be way easier on your bags than premade poisons.

[Tnair]

I'm glad you like it! Figured a 50% slow would come in handy. Curious about what you mentioned about inventory space. Are you preparing all the poison at once or just making it as you go? 40 vials, 40 suspensions, 20 thorny ergot, 20 delphinium, and an empty mortar and pestle would be way easier on your bags than premade poisons.

I was just adventuring with a guildmate ranger in Stonebrunt a few days ago who was doing this with arrows and fletching, also for inventory space. I'd never thought of it before and I'll for sure try that with poisons.

[Cecily]

Think I got that ratio wrong. 40 40 40 40 for 40 combines. So looking at 8 slots and a dedicated empty bag. Gives you 2 slots for premade storage in a handmade BP. Keep another in an open inventory space. And maybe fill up the mortar with poisons if you have enough wiggle room. Would be 9 poisons ready to be used and another 31 waiting to be made.

[7thGate]

I've been experimenting fairly heavily with poison use. My typical method is to carry the materials with me and make the poisons to apply in the field. Thoughts on the different types:

Weaken: Whatever effect -STR does does not seem to be prominent enough for anyone to notice without statistical analysis. It probably does something, but is almost certainly not worth it. Reading EQEmu code has suggested that debuffing a mob more than 75 str points probably does nothing anyway, which if true would mean it is entirely useless against anything debuffed by a caster anyway.

Blind Poison: I've never used this, but I think it might be workable for fear kiting with slow poison. The III version of this has a problem in that it takes a non-stackable component. Still need to experiment here.

Brittle Haste: I've never used this. If the -STR from weaken isn't noticeable, the +25% haste definitely would be. I considered trying to use this as a haste buff at lower levels by dueling someone, but the -STR does do something relevant to players, the haste is too small and it doesn't last long enough.


Berserker Madness: I've found this to be one of the more useful poisons. Berserker Madness II is doing 330 damage, and the +STR is just as unnoticeable as the -STR from weaken. It is also low aggro, as it has no poison counters. I believe it can probably be dispelled, as it was terminating early when my group was cancel magicing Mermaids in Kedge to try and strip their damage shields. I have high hopes for BM IV, although I cannot make it yet, as a 650+ DOT seems enough to be worthwhile and the materials are really easy to purchase since lots of people kite in the OT and there are no other uses for crystalline sulphur or succulent sap that I am aware of.

Lower Resists: Never used it. Based on the spell description blocks it doesn't stack with the Malo line, which is a shame, because this would otherwise be actually useful in a typical raid. Could have a use against highly MR targets, except Malo is unresistable. Might have an edge case use if there isn't a 60 shaman and you're fighting something magic immune.

Poison Summoned/Undead/Animal Line: These are actually ok, especially as an untwinked rogue. Like all DD nukes, they fare more poorly in comparison to attacking the better your gear, but 6 damage/level isn't too bad and the materials for them are not too hard to acquire. The Animal line was good in Kedge, and the Undead on in lower guk. You just have to know you're going to be heading somewhere to predominantly fight one of these. Not too bad for aggro because of the lack of poison counters.

Contact Poison: 4 damage/level is not really enough to make this worth it. I've used it, since I've been using poisons as I level and have been mostly making poisons near to trivial to boost success rates, but it is just not enough damage to be worth it. The materials for them also need to be farmed, and are harder to find on vendors. Its just not really worth it, although its not too bad for aggro due to the lack of poison counters.

System Shock: Has the same problem as Contact Poison, except now you draw aggro from the stun. Is easier to make, at least, as II, III and IV use purchaseable materials. System Shock V is needed for Mind Melt, and looks like it might do enough damage to be worth using if a supply of Mt. Death Mineral Salts could be acquired, but I'm not there yet.

Flesh Rot: Far, far too slow. Very pretty graphic, however, which will make people wonder what you're doing. Maybe useful for some sort of snare kiting strategy, but even then it really isn't worth it.

Feeble Mind: I haven't used these, although I've had my eye on some possible strategies. Common practice is to disrupt casters with push, but this would potentially open up some mana draining strategies for caster kills in groups with insufficient push, as a rogue could drain about 30 mana/second by chaining these, as long as they have some way to keep the caster rooted out of LOS or otherwise preoccupied. As far as I can tell from reading EQEmu code, mana pools are the same size for everything at a given level (~4500 mana at 60), though individual mobs have different mana regen rates. I still need to experiment to see if this can be made to do anything useful, but it is definitely 100% useless outside of some sort of specialized strategy built around it.

Paralyze: These are incredibly good for soloing and not bad for group content. 50% slow is the best slow in the game until level 40, and comes with a root so the huge aggro isn't a problem as long as it doesn't resist. The fact that the slow breaks with the root is a big problem, however. Is the only poison so far that has allowed me to do something I could otherwise not have done (solo Steel Golem in Cazic Thule) as opposed to speeding up a fight through increased damage. Ingredients for Spine Break can also be vendor purchased, which is nice.

Muscle Lock: Not bad for aggro kiting, and although I haven't tried it yet, I suspect it could be good for solo fear kiting. Muscle Lock IV has the advantage of being able to be vendor purchased; Muscle Lock II is usually easy to find people who have sold Whore's Bane to vendors around Najena, the other two have generally been too hard to farm ingredients for.

Dizzy: I have not tried this yet, but AGI doesn't seem to have a huge impact, so it is unclear how much this will help. Does not stack with Cripple.

[Snaggles]

I expect for a twinked rogue they would be quite handy. Back on Live I could solo a fairly easy blue with a poison (like dogs in Sol B) and my gear was never that good. Most rogues never made it which I didn't understand...it's probably the most boring class of all time otherwise :).

The materials are where the crafting game gets annoying. If I was rolling a rogue again at some point I'd prob hit up Najena and kill the ogres for Whore's Bane. Lethargic Bliss is Muscle Lock 2 and the skill to triv it is fairly low. A 50% slow is nothing to sneeze at and worth keeping for that special occasion.

[skarlorn]

I expect for a twinked rogue they would be quite handy. Back on Live I could solo a fairly easy blue with a poison (like dogs in Sol B) and my gear was never that good. Most rogues never made it which I didn't understand...it's probably the most boring class of all time otherwise :).

The materials are where the crafting game gets annoying. If I was rolling a rogue again at some point I'd prob hit up Najena and kill the ogres for Whore's Bane. Lethargic Bliss is Muscle Lock 2 and the skill to triv it is fairly low. A 50% slow is nothing to sneeze at and worth keeping for that special occasion.

actually it's far more useful for untwinked rogues, because they already struggle so much to kill a fairly easy blue while solo. The application of a poison makes it easier, whether due to an initial DD or the Debuff that makes you take less damage.

A well twinked rogue can just roll around slayin shit for a long time

[Jimjam]

Providing a huge aggro boost to piggy back off with slow+taunt, and root to provide proxy aggro while taunt takes its time to succeed is a combo warriors would appreciate.

[Snaggles]

actually it's far more useful for untwinked rogues, because they already struggle so much to kill a fairly easy blue while solo. The application of a poison makes it easier, whether due to an initial DD or the Debuff that makes you take less damage.

A well twinked rogue can just roll around slayin shit for a long time

Good point. In hindsight my logic was meandering :).