What tank?

[nina]

So I've never played a tank, casters yes, wizard, enchanter and the mighty necro. Moonlighted as a monk to 52 and loved it so I thought I might be missing out on a key area of the game.
That being said, I thought I might give it a go. I see a lot of SKs running around and the odd pally (though there doesnt seem a lot of love for them), a fair few warriors as well around Oasis in their overly tanked gear.
If I was looking at a tank, is SK the be all and end all? Are Pallys not worth the love or should I do straight warrior? How different are the play styles?
Any advice would be hot. My thought patterns are, at the moment, DE SK, or halfling warrior (love the XP bonus)... maybe troll warrior for regen

[Legidias]

War is the only tank that matters end game. Prior to that, any of the 3 work fine. You'll hold xp group aggro way easier with a knight than war though.

[Troxx]

For most groups I'd say pal > sk > warrior. If you're hunting a really tough mob (there are only a few), warrior for defensive. If you're hunting an area that could use another fd puller, SK.

For raids? War >>> knights.

SKs are not the end all be all.

[Naethyn]

A warrior is going to make a good group even better. A knight is going to make a bad group good.

[Troxx]

A good and well equipped warrior is going to make a good group even better. A knight is going to make a bad group good or a good group great.

[maskedmelon]

Paladins most certainly are capable of making bad groups better, but I feel the class is incapable of making anything great, simply because in solid groups their utility is eclipsed by other classes, leaving you with a one-armed warrior with no cooridnation :c

players can make any group great though, no matter how inefficient or challenging :3

[Sage Truthbearer]

For group settings your life is going to be a lot easier and less boring playing a Paladin or SK. I would avoid making a warrior unless you know for sure you're going to raid hardcore and also insist on being your guild's main tank.

[Jauna]

Warriors:
Ogres best stats all around, and frontal stun immunity. Slap starting stats into DEX and make sure your agi is over 75 and you are good to go
Troll regen is OK when soloing, but wont be a huge deciding factor in groups, and its marginal at best at max level
Barbarian is the best "good" tank for starting stats, again everything into DEX and make sure your AGI is over 75
Dwarves are a solid spot for warriors, highest starting DEX, cool looking and the barrel roll is highly regarded by many. Also access to Dwarven Plate many pieces of which are way better than planar/thurgadin gear

Paladins:
Only real option is Dwarf here, make sure your AGI is above 75 and rest into STA. You have solid wis/str/sta, and access to the racial armor which is fanfuckingtastic all the way to max level and then some.

SKs:
Ogre has the stat/stun thing again, make sure AGI is at 75 and rest into INT. Sounds silly but with beefy str/sta it wont take much even with crusty armor to get over 200+ in str/sta without trying.
Have a troll SK at level 20 and again the regen is great when solo but people always keep you topped off for some reason even when waiting for spawns/medding. I put all I could into INT here
Female dark elves are pretty.

And for what it is worth, Slam scales off the Bash skill and will also level Bash. Slam is superior to Kick in every way until 55 or so, even then you want to Slam casters to either avoid an ice comet or stop a heal/gate

[Samoht]

Warriors:
Ogres best stats all around, and frontal stun immunity. Slap starting stats into DEX and make sure your agi is over 75 and you are good to go
Troll regen is OK when soloing, but wont be a huge deciding factor in groups, and its marginal at best at max level
Barbarian is the best "good" tank for starting stats, again everything into DEX and make sure your AGI is over 75
Dwarves are a solid spot for warriors, highest starting DEX, cool looking and the barrel roll is highly regarded by many. Also access to Dwarven Plate many pieces of which are way better than planar/thurgadin gear

Paladins:
Only real option is Dwarf here, make sure your AGI is above 75 and rest into STA. You have solid wis/str/sta, and access to the racial armor which is fanfuckingtastic all the way to max level and then some.

SKs:
Ogre has the stat/stun thing again, make sure AGI is at 75 and rest into INT. Sounds silly but with beefy str/sta it wont take much even with crusty armor to get over 200+ in str/sta without trying.
Have a troll SK at level 20 and again the regen is great when solo but people always keep you topped off for some reason even when waiting for spawns/medding. I put all I could into INT here
Female dark elves are pretty.

And for what it is worth, Slam scales off the Bash skill and will also level Bash. Slam is superior to Kick in every way until 55 or so, even then you want to Slam casters to either avoid an ice comet or stop a heal/gate

Pretty much all on wrong accounts. Take Slam vs Kick for example. Warriors can still Bash by dropping in a shield, so it's a completely irrelevant argument. Please don't follow this advice. The only thing that is correct is that Dwarven Plate is good, but it's not restricted to Dwarfs. Halfling or Gnome Warriors in Dwarven Plate are still going to tank better than Ogre Warriors in Crustacean Shell armor because of the AC difference.

But this isn't a discussion about races to begin with. For the classes, you have to think about what you want to do. Warriors will have a hard time holding aggro until twinked well with Haste and proccing weapons.

Paladins will have great snap aggro starting at level 9 with Blind and Stun, and they can also pull with Lull and CC with Root. Paladins can help reduce downtime if there's no cleric or druid in the group by using the mana-free tiny heal they get on Deepwater helm.

SKs also have really good snap aggro, but no stun spell (they have to Bash/Slam instead). SKs can pull with FD using Snare to split.

SKs will have more success soloing than Paladins through fear kiting, but both will solo really slow due to inherent lack of DPS. (Note: using a slow 2h on a Knight will allow you to cast between swings without resetting your swing timer maximizing your DPS.) A Warrior with a good Haste item and Fungi tunic and dirt-cheap weapons will be able to out solo both of them.

So what do you want to do? Do you want to struggle sometimes while tanking PUG groups with a goal of being the the best Tank starting at about level 50? Do you have a lot of Plat sitting around you can use to twink out? Can you afford a Fungi? Pick Warrior.

Do you want to be able to help CC/pull in groups? Do you want to help keep your group alive with your tiny heals? Do you know how to use Blind? Pick Paladin.

Do you want the fail-safe to never die by casting FD when the shit hits the fan but not really use it to pull because FD sucks on this server? Do you want to basically solo to 60 by fear kiting in outdoor zones? Pick Shadow Knight.

Do you want to be the only one in your raid that can use the gear that drops for your class? Pick Paladin or Shadow Knight for sure. Practically nobody else plays them end-game.

[Jauna]

Take Slam vs Kick for example. Warriors can still Bash by dropping in a shield.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Slam

But as a dps loss and switching weapons like that all the time. Also kick has a low skill cap than bash.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Bash: 240 max

http://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Kick: 210 max

Slam will outperform Kick in most situations and be much more reliable at higher levels due to the higher skillcap vs casters

[Samoht]

Warriors can still Bash by dropping in a shield. You even quoted that. And if your tanking, you're not there to DPS, so once again, your argument is moot.

[Ennewi]

It's much easier for other players to make up for what Warriors lack in aggro generation at the early-mid levels of the game than it is for other players to make up for what Paladins and SKs lack in HP/AC/Discs late game, depending on the mobs. If there's already a designated tank (in group or on raid), Warriors can stay at low hp for DPS, Paladins can contribute some heals, and SKs can help pull; the usefulness of those alternative roles goes in that order imo. The snap aggro of hybrids can be really useful on certain raids, but generally not anything that requires a cheal rotation. Paladins edge out SKs in groups because their spells synergize with enchanters and they can heal the DPS, saving the cleric mana. But even Rangers can tank, if geared correctly, especially with Velious armor to choose from now. If you still can't decide, you have 8 character slots, test them out and see what fits.

[Jauna]

your argument is moot.

I dont even know why a shield was brought up in the first place. and good luck tanking as a warrior with a shield

[nina]

Stupid question time... Knight is in fact Shadow Knight right? Not a high level Paladin?

That's exactly how much I know about tanks :)

[Ennewi]

Knights are Paladin between lvl 55-59 actually. You can find a list of class titles here (https://wiki.project1999.com/Classes) at the bottom of the page.

[Jimjam]

We're in velious now, I don't think you need to put your starting points into dex. Yes, there are a couple of decent low level procs now, but really procs don't become useful until the high levels.

At max level, I am pretty sure you can accumulate at least 255 dex in buffs alone.

[Pyrion]

If you want to be the hero that saves the group, be paladin. LH saved a lot of situations already on my paladin. SK is a more selfish choice, at least he can save himself with FD.

As others already stated if your goal is end game raiding be a warrior. You will suck at your main task while leveling, but in the end you will be very usefull. A bit like a wizard actually.

[demokatt]

I wouldn't say that you can't enjoy playing a warrior even if u not gonna raid. I find it quite fun class to duo with and even solo, especially in berzerk mode. Sometimes I just like beating stuff and dont have to bother with any magic at all :-P

[Jimjam]

Not needing to waste time pressing buttons gives so much more opportunity to lay on the RP.

[demokatt]

And also - 10% xp bonus!! :-P

[Samoht]

I dont even know why a shield was brought up in the first place. and good luck tanking as a warrior with a shield

You really have no idea how to play a Warrior, do you? I'm not going to hold it against you. You just need to admit it and be accepting to learn new things. You don't have to wear the shield. You equip it off-hand, hit Bash, and then switch your weapon back in. It happens in the blink of an eye. Slam is an unnecessary crutch for those who don't actually know how to play. Just like insisting that Ogre is the best race. But this thread isn't about race to begin with, so we don't need that nonsense.

[Jauna]

blah blah blah words words words

Sounds like a lot of extra work just to be an elf warrior.

[Samoht]

Sounds like a lot of extra work just to be an elf warrior.

This isn't a thread about race. Quit changing the subject.

[Naethyn]

I dont even know why a shield was brought up in the first place. and good luck tanking as a warrior with a shield
https://youtu.be/zNjE1gBX_dg

[Jauna]

This isn't a thread about race. Quit changing the subject.

OP asked for input about many things, race being one of them.

[Samoht]

OP asked for input about many things, race being one of them.

Well he should definitely disregard any input from you.

My thought patterns are, at the moment, DE SK, or halfling warrior (love the XP bonus)... maybe troll warrior for regen

Decide on the class first, and then the race. A few notes:

You'll be kicking yourself in the butt often for picking a Dark Elf SK. Your STA will be low, which means lower HPs, and your STR will be low, which means you'll be often encumbered while wearing plate or carrying trash to vendor like Fine Steel. Of course, both of these things can be overcome with gear, so if you're going to twink, it should work out fine. They also have a pretty decent Mana pool to start out, but that's only going to make a noticeable difference while Fear kiting.

Halfling is a fine choice for Warrior, not only for the XP bonus, but because you will have access to Dwarven Plate and one of the most powerful racial skills - Sneak. Sneak makes it really easy to maneuver in zones that have lots of see invis mobs or a mix of undead and regular mobs (think Karnor's Castle for both cases).

I don't really like Trolls as the race for any class. They're a very middle of the road choice, so if you can't decide for certain whether you want higher starting stats or regen, maybe that's exactly what you're looking for. But if I were going to eat the EXP penalty just so I could have increased regeneration on a Warrior, I would rather pick Iksar for the bonus AC (and lolForagelol). Plus, the higher starting stats become negligible when all Warrior races can finish 255 in STR/STA/DEX while buffed.

[Jauna]

Well he should definitely disregard any input from you.

For being right or just against your contrarian views?

[loramin]

This isn't a thread about race. Quit changing the subject.

OP asked for input about many things, race being one of them.

*Changes the subject*

[Samoht]

For being right or just against your contrarian views?

See, this is what I was talking about earlier. Most of your "advice" was just misinformation from someone that isn't knowledgeable on the subject. There's no reason to be militant. Live and learn.

[Jauna]

Most of your "advice" was just misinformation from someone that isn't knowledgeable on the subject.

I ran a few warriors on p99. first woodelf, then dwarf, then troll then ogre and even a barbarian to level 5 once. I was happiest with Ogre with most starting stats into DEX and AGI at 75.

There's no reason to be militant.

Pot, kettle, black.

[Samoht]

I ran a few warriors on p99. first woodelf, then dwarf, then troll then ogre and even a barbarian to level 5 once. I was happiest with Ogre with most starting stats into DEX and AGI at 75.

What level? What era? Things are a lot different in Velious at level 60. Judging by your account creation date, my Warrior is at least two years older than any of yours.

[Jauna]

What level? What era? Things are a lot different in Velious at level 60. Judging by your account creation date, my Warrior is at least two years older than any of yours.

So militant.

[Samoht]

So militant.

So you don't have any explanation to why you think only Warriors with Slam get to use the Bash skill? Do you seriously still think that a Warrior shouldn't use a shield? And you still refuse to concede that you might not be as informed as you think you are?

[Jauna]

I am a huge faggot, please rape my face

I dont know who shit in your cheerios this morning, but I was talking about Slam being useful, moreso than Kick. then you walked in talking about shields.

Not a damn soul was talking about shields until you came along.

Then for whatever reason you went full fucking jeans tucked into tube socks retarded being a hypocrite calling other people out for stuff you have been doing, ie changing the subject and being militant.

What you should have done was give your advice and move on instead of stepping on others, calling them out and starting a pointless internet fight about an 18 year old video game.

[Raavak]

You'll be kicking yourself in the butt often for picking a Dark Elf SK.Female DE SKs are friggen hot.

[Samoht]

I dont know who shit in your cheerios this morning, but I was talking about Slam being useful, moreso than Kick. then you walked in talking about shields.

Not a damn soul was talking about shields until you came along.

Then for whatever reason you went full fucking jeans tucked into tube socks retarded being a hypocrite calling other people out for stuff you have been doing, ie changing the subject and being militant.

What you should have done was give your advice and move on instead of stepping on others, calling them out and starting a pointless internet fight about an 18 year old video game.

Oh, my. We've hit a nerve with the bad Warrior. Guys, look out, he's tried a Warrior of every race before he decided Ogre is the best. One of them even made it to level 5!

And for what it is worth, Slam scales off the Bash skill and will also level Bash. Slam is superior to Kick in every way until 55 or so, even then you want to Slam casters to either avoid an ice comet or stop a heal/gate

This is just straight up bad advice. You don't have to compare Slam to Kick since all Warriors have access to Bash. Anybody playing a Warrior can equip a shield and Bash a spell. I guess that if you don't know about swapping in a shield to hit Bash and then swapping back by level 5, then you'll never know.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

https://youtu.be/zNjE1gBX_dg

Watched a couple of your videos. You need to work the camera angles.
Not sure how you can see whats going on around you when your character is staring at the floor or into a dragon belly.

[Jauna]

Oh, my. We've hit a nerve with the bad Warrior.

Yeah, you did hit a nerve, a 4 or 5 day old argument can take a toll on someone. Too bad you cant hit a point or stay on topic long enough for anything you say to matter.

Oh right, the editing part. Yeah any warrior can bash, but slam is just so much easier and allows access to dual wielding without having to switch all the time. And considering Kick has a lower skillcap at all times, there is no reason to kick, and because large races can Slam, no reason to bash.

The argument here, is that Slam is superior. Not that Bash and shields are not a thing. This is the point you keep missing.

[Samoht]

Yeah, you did hit a nerve, a 4 or 5 day old argument can take a toll on someone. Too bad you cant hit a point or stay on topic long enough for anything you say to matter.

I guess you can follow along about as well as you play Warrior, which is to say, not very well at all.

[Jauna]

I guess you can follow along about as well as you play Warrior, which is to say, not very well at all.

Which is just all assumptions on your end so you can convince the OP with brute force, instead of staying on topic or having valid arguments

[Samoht]

Oh right, the editing part. Yeah any warrior can bash, but slam is just so much easier and allows access to dual wielding without having to switch all the time. And considering Kick has a lower skillcap at all times, there is no reason to kick, and because large races can Slam, no reason to bash.

The argument here, is that Slam is superior. Not that Bash and shields are not a thing. This is the point you keep missing.

Superior to what? If you were making the argument that you cannot Bash while using a 2H, you might have a point, but now you're specifically mentioning that you're talking about using it while Dual Wielding, which makes it even easier for a race without Slam. Swap a shield in, use Bash, swap the shield out. Slam is just a crutch, not a necessity.

valid arguments

Yeah, you mean like how Slam is so powerful and how starting stats matter so much? Lol. Bad.

[Jauna]

Superior to what?

Kick and Bash. Kick because lower skill cap, and bash because constantly switching every 6 or so seconds.

Slam is a crutch

So? Anything can be seen as a crutch as long as you dont like it, like proc weapons and bags of nets.

and how starting stats matter so much?

Not seeing anywhere in the OP that he had end game aspirations and will have BiS gear within a month or less or around that. Starting stats do matter for 1-60 and for months afterwards until you get all BiS gear.

But no BiS gear will ever replace frontal stun immunity

[Samoht]

Kick and Bash. Kick because lower skill cap, and bash because constantly switching every 6 or so seconds.

You don't do the shield swap every six seconds, just when you see a cast message. Next you'll be telling us that you never realized that NPCs had cast messages.

But no BiS gear will ever replace frontal stun immunity

Oh, this explains everything. It's hard to have a civil conversation on race with someone who puts so much value into FSI; Ogres aren't known for their intellect. Obviously, if you're not smart enough to realize you can swap in a shield and hit Bash, then you're not smart enough to realize FSI just doesn't matter under most normal circumstances.

[skarlorn]

Personally, I found it refreshing as an auto-attack class to be able to switch to a shield and bash enemy casters. It gave dear Filbus something to do from levels 1 - 55 other than autoattack and weep as the twinks ripped aggro from me.

It's really not hard :o

Big dunks from Samoht in this thread, jauna confirmed as rustled, and anyone who has gotten a warrior to 60 knows that most ogre warriors have bad pilots and are the worst warriors on the server, halfling warriors are great for sneak/hide but the exp bonus isn't a big deal, and that at end game all you need is the ability to press defensive, click a mallet 5 times, and then stand with your back to a wall as clerics chaincast CH on you (and you are just a vessel for HP/AC increasing pixels)

[Jauna]

Oh, this explains everything.

This does not explain anything, its just a diving board for your mental gymnastics.

But I do understand now that this was never about the OP, this was never about personal attacks against me just because it is me.

It was the word Ogre that triggered you.

[Jauna]

most ogre warriors have bad pilots

You.. are basing this all on user error?

[Samoht]

You.. are basing this all on user error?

He's basing it on players like you. You obviously can't see the forest for all the trees. There are many tools and utilities in this game that overcome lack of Slam, lower starting stats, or no FSI. You just have to know how to play. Sticking to Ogre is a clear sign that you don't or you refuse to learn.

[Jauna]

Play like i play or you suck

Oh.

[Samoht]

All I asked was for you to be willing to learn what you didn't know. You refused. So yeah, you do suck.

[Jauna]

I played non-ogre warriors, I just found Ogre to be the most enjoyable.

Oh, and I never asked you to teach me.

[Samoht]

I never asked you to teach me.

That's fair. But don't get upset when somebody corrects you for only having a basic understanding of the game and you're trying to give advice to others.

[Jauna]

Alright, but do not be shocked when someone lashes out at you whenever this happens again.

[Samoht]

Alright, but do not be shocked when someone lashes out at you whenever this happens again.

This is not a normal response. Consider anger management.

[Jauna]

So out of all the times you walked up to a random strangers in real life to correct them, you never once gotten a "fuck off"?

[skarlorn]

DING DING DING

lol that image is horrific and beautiful

[trite]

So I've never played a tank, casters yes, wizard, enchanter and the mighty necro. Moonlighted as a monk to 52 and loved it so I thought I might be missing out on a key area of the game.
That being said, I thought I might give it a go. I see a lot of SKs running around and the odd pally (though there doesnt seem a lot of love for them), a fair few warriors as well around Oasis in their overly tanked gear.
If I was looking at a tank, is SK the be all and end all? Are Pallys not worth the love or should I do straight warrior? How different are the play styles?
Any advice would be hot. My thought patterns are, at the moment, DE SK, or halfling warrior (love the XP bonus)... maybe troll warrior for regen


warrior if you want to tank on raids, shadow knight if you want to tank the grind casually

as a shadow knight or paladin you will do zero tanking in raid situations. As a shadow knight you will basically do nothing on raids, worthless

iksar warrior has better regen than troll warrior

[loramin]

iksar warrior has better regen than troll warrior

Huh? I was under the impression the two had the exact same regen:


Both Iksar and Trolls have higher HP regeneration rates (per tick):

*list of rates by level*

Comparatively, these are the HP regeneration rates (per tick) for all other races:

[Velthak]

If you know how to play an sk, youre always busy on raids. You can pull with the monks, keep enchanters alive by locking down mezzed mobs, ramp tank, dispell damage shields, and alot of times keep the mobs out of where all the casters are hiding out of line of sight. Defensive warriors are nice and all but if you have a CH chain to support whatever you need, then who cares? Maybe not unslowable Raging Wyvrens but Ive tanked wurms in HoT, Queen in Chardok, Neb in DN.

Gold jacket? Green jacket? Who gives a shit.

[Samoht]

So out of all the times you walked up to a random strangers in real life to correct them, you never once gotten a "fuck off"?

Normal people don't talk that way to strangers or casual acquaintances IRL. Look up John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory for a good summarization of your issue.

[Naethyn]

Watched a couple of your videos. You need to work the camera angles.
Not sure how you can see whats going on around you when your character is staring at the floor or into a dragon belly.
Good question. I see what is going on around me by the GINA bars counting down CH timers and below the melee window to the left of my HP. If my combat window says I cannot see my target I know much faster if I need to reposition. Also, if there is a gap in the heal chain and it looks like another round is inc I can self heal with wort potions or soulfire. This is how the good tanks stay alive. Turning off attack at these critical moments can also save a repost.

[nina]

Sweet, thanks for the information guys. So much more to it that I would have imagined. Might go try a pally and see how I go.

Now to narrow down the race, probably dwarf as I like a good diving roll :)

[eqaverse]

I dont know anything about EQEMU/P99. I played a lot on original EQ as a Eru SK. SKs can make GREAT tanks on raids, I often was on lineup before many of our warriors for two reasons: 1. superior aggro holding abilities, 2. superior AC. If as a SK you focus your gear selection based on "AC is King" then you lower the DI (damage interval) of mobs and, therefore, the less chance for a damage spike that would insta-kill a tank between C-Heals. Shroud of Death + Leechcurse also added lifetap proccing that further migitaged damage (although this was not a super significant impact, just more insurance). Our snap aggro would allow me to FD while tanking the raid mob if I did happen to catch a high spike and then stand up an instant later and taunt + snap aggro to get the boss back on me, usually with another toon only taking a couple hits at best while the heal chain caught up on me.

Alternatively, as a SK on raids a support role of grabbing adds with snap aggro and then kiting them around while the rest of the raid focused on the boss on multi-mob encounters.

I'm not trying to propose that SKs were/are superior to warriors in raids, just that they held their own and if the raid went in with adjusted tactics it could be as effective.

All of that said, Avatar of War was a different beast all together and no way in hell I think anything other than a pure warrior had a chance to stand up to his DB and flurry combo :)

[Jimjam]

I like the subtle interplay of erudite shadowknight.

Also, that extra 5mr make it the obvious min max choice (!)

[nina]

Pallys should all be dwarf and SK should all be DE. This way you achieve maximum fashion quest (which is all that honestly matters)

Literally never had a human character. Might be a nice change

[Lhancelot]

I like the subtle interplay of erudite shadowknight.

Also, that extra 5mr make it the obvious min max choice (!)

don't forget, dorf get 5MR bonus too!

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

Good question. I see what is going on around me by the GINA bars counting down CH timers and below the melee window to the left of my HP. If my combat window says I cannot see my target I know much faster if I need to reposition. Also, if there is a gap in the heal chain and it looks like another round is inc I can self heal with wort potions or soulfire. This is how the good tanks stay alive. Turning off attack at these critical moments can also save a repost.

Nothing exceptional about using consumables to heal imo.

[Velthak]

Nothing exceptional about using consumables to heal imo.

Isnt that what they're for?

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

Yes.

[planarity]

https://youtu.be/zNjE1gBX_dg

off the rods! @00:50

[demokatt]

According to what I read on forums, there is a softcap for tanks/meele at 289 for AC and above that, warriors get 45%, knights 33% and rangers like 17%?

Is that softcap 289 of what is shown in total ac then? Because it is pretty hard (atleast for me) to get 289 worn AC if you add together the AC that is written on the actual item when you rightklick it? And why do you get more AC than it is written on the item, even if you wear one? Is that class based?

[Naethyn]

Chapter 5: Real AC vs. Displayed AC

While it comes as a shock to many, a person's displayed AC actually means relatively nothing. Displayed AC is affected by many things and in no way has no bearing on a persons Real AC (rAC).

Real AC is calculated using the following formula:

rAC = SoftCap + Shield + [ WornAC - (SoftCap + Shield) ]*OvercapReturn

SoF Overcap Returns (Subject to Change):

Warrior: 0.45
SK/Pal/Monk: 0.33
Zerk/Rang: 0.17

The rest of you shouldnt be tanking, reason (Silk Overcap Return = 0.02)


Example:

Zyric has a worn AC of 2500, (This can be found using Magelo under Worn AC + Aug AC)

Shadowknight SoftCap = 915 (This changes for each class, consult your CC or respective community to find yours)

Shield AC = 218

Shadowknight OvercapReturn = 0.33

Zyric's rAC = 915 + 218 + [ 2500 - (915 + 218) ]*0.33 = 1584

While Zyric's ingame Displayed AC may be 5000, in reality his rAC is only 1584.


Displayed AC and its relationship to Raw AC:

Displayed AC = Raw AC * 1.575

If you get a 10 Raw AC upgrade, for instance upgrading from a 25AC aug to a 35AC aug, your displayed AC will actually increase by 15.75; not just by 10. **The 1.575 is a standard fudge factor for all classes excluding rogues and silkies**

Chapter 6: Defensive Check Order

Order goes:

1. Preliminary Defensive Check (Parry/Dodge/Riposte/SBlock) --> 2. Hit/Miss Check (Innate Skill/AvoidanceMod2) --> 3. Damage (RNG of DI)

**In SoF T3+ content NPCs gain the ability "Strikethrough", this allows the mobs attack to bypass Check 1 (Prelim Def Check) and go straight to the second Hit/Miss Check.**

* At end to clarify that this is obviously not only for p99 content, because surely someone will bring it up. The point is that thing you see as AC in your window means pretty much nothing.

[Jimjam]

According to what I read on forums, there is a softcap for tanks/meele at 289 for AC and above that, warriors get 45%, knights 33% and rangers like 17%?

Is that softcap 289 of what is shown in total ac then? Because it is pretty hard (atleast for me) to get 289 worn AC if you add together the AC that is written on the actual item when you rightklick it? And why do you get more AC than it is written on the item, even if you wear one? Is that class based?

That is probably the system here, but late Velious on live 289 worn was a hard cap.

Late Velious the hard cap for worn remained, but the cap for the sum of worn+class+defence bonus+agility bonus+spell bonus (total) was changed to a soft cap with 'fairly small' returns.

It wasn't until the SoL/PoP era changes where return after worn softcap actually became significant/a thing at all. Also, until this pre-pop patch there wasn't any bonus to using a shield over any other armour type (beyond unlocking bash).

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48312

As I recall, a p99 dev mentioned this server uses a softcap system, because they had calibrated all the NPCs under that system to produce close to classic results (and as such, revamping the AC cap system would require all NPC attack values to also be upheaved).

[maskedmelon]

Not needing to waste time pressing buttons gives so much more opportunity to lay on the RP.

incredibly valid point ^^

[demokatt]

My question was really if 289 softcap on worn AC is including that x1.5 fudge factor or without? I suppose it must be including it otherwise it would be hard to get that much AC that it matters.

[Jimjam]

As far as I know, for the worn cap you just add up the AC displayed on each item. Like if you wore just cobalt boots and gloves it would be 25+25=50 worn total.

[demokatt]

So even with a fullset of of cobalt you dont really reach the softcap unless u got some really nice ac in remaining slots like rings earrings shoulders face?

[skarlorn]

Nothing exceptional about using consumables to heal imo.

by that measure, nothing exceptional about using the best weapons or armor on the server, it's just the ability to use the right pixel at the right time. clearly NOT what eq is all about


/sarcasm off

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

by that measure, nothing exceptional about using the best weapons or armor on the server, it's just the ability to use the right pixel at the right time. clearly NOT what eq is all about


/sarcasm off

Correct.

[Jimjam]

So even with a fullset of of cobalt you dont really reach the softcap unless u got some really nice ac in remaining slots like rings earrings shoulders face?

289 is just the cap for level 60. The cap is lower at lower levels, i.e you only needed 163 to cap out at 51.

We're in Velious now too. Skyshrine armor or better is not an unrealistic expectation at 60, needing only 35 more AC to cap spread across 9-12 slots. Even with cobalt/thurg tier 65 AC across 10 slots isn't hard to cap.

[demokatt]

Oh I didnt know it scaled with levels. What is the softcap at level 20 or 30 then?

[Jimjam]

That's a mystery, but considering no matter how geared you are it is always difficult to mitigate yellows/reds I'd posit there is a cap that scales from level 1-50 too.

The link I posted suggests a couple of patterns the pre-51 caps might follow.

[demokatt]

Ok that means a warrior will have much better use of being twinked with ac than knight and rangers the first 50 levels

[Jimjam]

I think it is more the case that after a while adding more AC doesn't really accomplish much. On a recent thread someone mentioned their nToV geared warrior they delevelled still struggled to mitigate against high cons.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

289 is just the cap for level 60. The cap is lower at lower levels, i.e you only needed 163 to cap out at 51.

We're in Velious now too. Skyshrine armor or better is not an unrealistic expectation at 60, needing only 35 more AC to cap spread across 9-12 slots. Even with cobalt/thurg tier 65 AC across 10 slots isn't hard to cap.

So do we know if this is how AC works on P99?

[Jimjam]

For all that, I'm pretty sure a dev mentioned they use the eqemu system (i.e. with shield bonus, returns after cap, etc), because all the mobs in this sim had already been balanced around that system and it would be a lot of effort to overhaul...

Basically /shrug, dunno. Probably not.

Maybe search old threads and pm a dev that took an interest in the topic and see if they will disclose juicy deets?

[Troxx]

AC beyond the soft cap (if one exists) still yields returns well enough that, for routine play, it is still worth prioritizing. There are obvious cases of when to drop AC for resists. At the bleeding edge where mitigation rates are poor enough and complete heals require a chain, hp could be argued to be preferable. At that level of play the good hp items are also generally the good AC items ... so it's a moot point.

For the group game, more AC means less healing required. Complete heal is more efficient with higher hp pools but even in the low 50s tank classes with buffs have more than enough to get the job done with an aggressive AC focus. Damage intake relative to hp pools of tanks still make healing a "once in a while" thing to do for the tank with complete heal. For situations without a cleric - mitigation wins undeniably.

If there is no soft cap and only a hard cap (doubtful on p99) ... AC to the cap followed by hp focus beyond.

[demokatt]

Are there different damage mitigation tables for different classes, besides differences in gained AC?