Paladin holy forge disc

[wowplayer]

Hello I have used my holy forge disc going on 10 times fully shammy buffed on players and on undead mobs and yet to see a crit hit of any kind was wondering if its broken or what could some one look into this please! =P

[Atmas]

As a player who got the disc as soon as it was added to p99 I can tell you from numerous usages over this almost two year period the proc rate is abysmal. I'm not sure if the really bad proc rate is classic or not because I haven't found much data but it is very lackluster. FYI, it works on all mobs, not just undead ones.

I have used it extensively in situations on raid mobs where I could melee, hasted, practically the entirety of the disc and generally see 2-4 crits when using a 2hander and 4-6 when using a 22 delay 1hander. If the data was listed out I'm sure there would be outliers, like a 2hander getting 7 crits or 1 as I can remember times it's happened.

[Heebs13]

Can confirm, the proc rate is just abysmal. Holyforge is most useful as a timer for when Lay Hands will come back up =/

[Telin]

Corrected casting animation to a Cheer instead of getting hit.

Added missing spell animation w/ skulls around caster.

Looking into the other error...

[Erati]

Corrected casting animation to a Cheer instead of getting hit.

Added missing spell animation w/ skulls around caster.

Looking into the other error...

yesssssss

[Heebs13]

Wait, is holyforge about to become actually useful?

[Dildy]

Rarely Crits, something is up with this as I remember it critting a lot more when raiding hate on live, this was pre-Luclin before AAs.

[Telin]

Rarely Crits, something is up with this as I remember it critting a lot more when raiding hate on live, this was pre-Luclin before AAs.

The damage mod vs undead effect is currently broken, but it wasn't always so I am reaching out to other devs for ideas at the moment.

[Dildy]

The damage mod vs undead effect is currently broken, but it wasn't always so I am reaching out to other devs for ideas at the moment.

Also, on 12/06/2000: "Several disciplines have been upgraded (Resistant, Trueshot, Unholy Aura, HolyForge) have been upgraded. Please read the updated EQManual_Supplement.doc (or .txt) in your Everquest Directory."

Additionally, on 12/19/2000: "The Paladin "Holy Forge" discipline will now give Paladins triple the normal chance of scoring a critical hit. Each critical hit has a percent chance to be scored as a critical blow."

I'm sure these patch notes have been looked at by a lot of people, but always good to take a second look. I wish I could read the EQManual_Supplement.doc at that time, I'm sure it would explain it a lot more detail. Anyone have any idea if that could possibly be recovered?

[Dildy]

Reading the EQ Titanium EQManual_supplement it states: "Critical hits and Crippling Blows versus undead with an increased probability of going off. The discipline lasts 2 minutes, and has a base reuse time of 72 minutes.

Holy forge was then changed to 5 minutes from 2 on Jan 9, 2001.

[Dildy]

http://www.erollisimarr.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7142.html

This post from 2002 has a paladin complaining about this same crit chance, "I've used holyforge and due to complaints from other paladins I've logged every crit Ive had. ( not hard when you get 2 every usage ) The last 2 times I've critted 12 times a go."

Maybe it's just classic. I do remember raiding in Hate and watching a paladin absolutely blow up undead, but I think he may have had AAs that increased crit chance and that could be why I am thinking the proc rate is higher than normal...

[Dildy]

Request to delete this discipline, complete garbage. Also, getting an error every time I use it having something to do with the visual graphic upon use. Probably an easier fix to just completely delete it from p99 and no one would care

[Dildy]

New worthless information about this disc. Only 1-2 paladins on the server anyway but here goes nothing. I have yet to get a crippling blow on an undead mob. Seems broken. Should be crippling undeads even while at full health. I haven’t tested this yet while under the 40% Hp threshold but will do that soon and post a reply.

[Telin]

New worthless information about this disc. Only 1-2 paladins on the server anyway but here goes nothing. I have yet to get a crippling blow on an undead mob. Seems broken. Should be crippling undeads even while at full health. I haven’t tested this yet while under the 40% Hp threshold but will do that soon and post a reply.

As stated before the spell effect is broken and I have asked code devs for assistance. There’s no workaround because it is undead specific.

[Dildy]

@Telin It's not just the spell effect that's broken. I have never once landed a crippling blow on an undead mob. After testing it on paineel guards for many hours through the duration of the discipline, I have concluded that the chance to crippling blow is either very close to 0% or it is broken altogether. I can send you my logs if you would like. I even tested this at under 40% health like a warrior would for crippling blows and while I was landing critical hits, not ONE crippling blow. The mechanics of how this worked on live were much much different and I believe this discipline was not only stealth nerfed, but is not properly functioning here on P99. There aren't a lot of paladins on the server to complain about or test this, so it's probably just been brushed off for sooooo long. Please don't let this info go unheard.

[Rygar]

@Telin It's not just the spell effect that's broken. I have never once landed a crippling blow on an undead mob. After testing it on paineel guards for many hours through the duration of the discipline, I have concluded that the chance to crippling blow is either very close to 0% or it is broken altogether. I can send you my logs if you would like. I even tested this at under 40% health like a warrior would for crippling blows and while I was landing critical hits, not ONE crippling blow. The mechanics of how this worked on live were much much different and I believe this discipline was not only stealth nerfed, but is not properly functioning here on P99. There aren't a lot of paladins on the server to complain about or test this, so it's probably just been brushed off for sooooo long. Please don't let this info go unheard.

Um, I think Telin is trying to say yes, you are correct, but he himself cannot fix the discipline. Needs someone like Haynar / Nilbog / Rogean to do some work on it.

[Dildy]

Ah ok, I thought he was just talking about the visual spell effect, which is also broken :)

[MilanderTruewield]

Damn, that post from the Emarr forums... I miss those guys :O

[Telin]

Ah ok, I thought he was just talking about the visual spell effect, which is also broken :)

I fixed the animation pending patch, but yes the code that handles damage bonuses vs undead is getting an error. Everything in the spell file is correct. It's a job for Haynar most likely.

[Dildy]

I am still getting an error when I use holyforge discipline for the animation. It shows as:

'Unknown spell effect 219 in spell Holyforge Discipline (id 4500)'

Also, I have continued to extensively test the discipline and have never once dealt a crippling blow to an undead mob. For the love of Tunare, delete this discipline so I dont get tempted to click it. Been testing this since I hit level 55 nearly 2 years ago.

Please someone help us poor Paladins become great again. I understand we're not a widely played class and this is part of the reason.

Artelius Lightweaver

[Dildy]

BUMP. Animation still bugged, and still no crippling blows to undead.

Please, i'll stop begging for soulfire nerfs if this is fixed....



Artelius Lightweaver 60 PAL <Auld Lang Syne>

[Telin]

BUMP. Animation still bugged, and still no crippling blows to undead.

Please, i'll stop begging for soulfire nerfs if this is fixed....



Artelius Lightweaver 60 PAL <Auld Lang Syne>

As far as the animation— are you referring to the spell particle animation or the character model animation? Post a screenshot of what you see

[Dildy]

There is no visual graphic effect...when I use the ability the animation is the same as when an NPC hits me. This is with density high, opacity 100%. I took a video of it but don't know how to post here.

[doormat00]

Noticed this line of text after activating Holyforce Disc:

"Unknown spell effect 219 in spell Holyforge Discipline (id 4500)"

http://puu.sh/ID7Jq/d05765da77.jpg

[Senn]

How did the conversation with devs go @Telin?

[Senn]

bump

[Scalem]

bump

[Dildy]

bump after 4.5 years. Still not fixed. No crippling blows on undead ever.

[Senn]

bump to fix Pally disciplines.

[Senn]

bump

[apathe]

I would accept triple attack as a replacement since Holy Forge is apparently FUBAR.

[Senn]

Bump

[Senn]

Still no love! Bumping

[Renault]

Bump...has there even been a GM response to this one ever?

[Senn]

Nope.

<edit> Well, nothing past Telin saying they'd speak with other devs. But that was 6 years ago

[Alam Mchealer]

LOUD NOISES

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20011122045812/http://pub4.ezboard.com/feqasylumpaladin.showMessage?topicID=254.topic

Deavi Rth
Xian's Master =(
(9/21/01 9:39:04 am)

Holyforge so useless... yet fun sometimes.
Holyforge is the most useless and utterly disapointing disc Paladins get. The ability to crit and crip vs undead should be a natural one. I mean seriously how many times we come across undead? There is only ONE boss that actually REGISTERS as undead. Maestro... Draco... Trak... etc are undead but don't register as such. Only Venril Sathir is undead and registers... But how fun would it be if we didnt need a disipline to do this:



Hehe always fun to see people's faces when the paly lands the huge Crip... this was with Frostwrath by the way. (yes, 1handed) /brag off :P
Deavi R`th, Crusader of Tunare
Visions, Lanys T`Vyl
"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do
for others and the world remains, and is immortal..."

Ferok
h0x0r!
(9/21/01 9:51:38 am)

Re: Holyforge so useless... yet fun sometimes.
I saw a crip for 599 somewhere, but for a 20ish damage weapon thats damn nice. Ferok will play with this skill some day =D.

Coramoor
The Valiant
(9/22/01 10:47:52 am)
re
My highest crit is 375 or something

its a useless disc normally

Hess Steelskin
p0\/\/3r-p0sT3r!
(9/30/01 8:00:00 am)
Re: re
583, Venril Sathir, Fiery Defender

Hess

[wowplayer]

I started this post 6 years ago and the devs have yet to come up with a solution. I played in red so I had high hopes of them fixing this and making it land on players. Some one suggested to give paladins triple attack or make the disc give paladins triple attack for 5 minutes I understand the devs are busy but 6 years later come on.

[solvent]

still feeling the lack of undead smiting

[Sirpok]

Yup

[Lostfaction]

Bump

[Alam Mchealer]

2024 bump

[MaCtastic]

same same

[p99portage]

Bump

[p99portage]

See https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278044&highlight=holyforge

[solvent]

Some people have mentioned a quick fix of making this disc a triple attack, an alternative would be to make this a defensive disc instead of offensive disc. There is plenty that could be considered. Personally I always imagine paladins as a defensive, AC, and sheild class that should have discs based around wielding a sheild. A few examples when active holyforge 1: ignores attacker level when calculating AC avoidance or 2: triples sheild AC bonus or 3: bash always lands and stuns.

[Crede]

bump, didn't see this in latest fixes

[cadiz]

Would be wonderful to see attention on this pending developer resources.