Hardest Class for a New Player

[dookieshed]

What's the most difficult class for a brand new player and why is it Bard?

In all seriousness though, I convinced a friend of mine who's never played EQ to install P99, so I was helping him pick a class. I basically just gave him advice based on how difficult the classes are to play, how gear dependent they are, how good they are at soloing, etc, and from what I know about Bard (which isn't much), it's hands down the hardest class to play. But I don't really know to what extent that's true.

Edit: I forgot to mention-- HE CHOSE BARD

Is it a huge mistake for a new EQ player to choose Bard?
How tough of a time is he going to have learning this class?
Anyone have any useful advice for him?

Thanks!

[maskedmelonpai]

gotta push lotta buttons. it okay though, not many bards know what they doing anyway. he just need to know to play mana song and groups gonna tolerate him.

[Ravager]

Bard isn't the hardest. As masked said, they can just play either their heal song or mana song in groups and leech exp. And once they figure out how to kite, they can play easy mode for 50 levels.

For hardest class, I would say Enchanter, because no matter what they do they gotta pay a shit ton of attention to the game.

[Hitmonkey]

Any tank class is the hardest.

Bard is on the far end toward easy. The more gear dependent and less solo viable class the harder it is for a new player.

[pasi]

Probably warrior.

Class is dogshit without gear. Everything starts pushing your shit in around level 6 and you'll have to group to do anything.

Bards are gonna have regen and selos at low levels.

[Ravager]

Tanks are only slightly tougher than rogues. Rogues only have it easier, because a group can have 3 of them, but once in a group, their job is fairly routine, just like tanks. The clerics and enchanters do the heavy lifting of most good groups. Soloing, Tanks have an easier time of it than rogues.

[Nycon43]

I was going to say Bard but after considering that it's a new player, I do have to go with Warrior; the class fucking sucks without gear.

[deezy]

I agree that warrior is the least newbie friendly simply because they are so gear and group dependent.

[Triiz]

Bard isn't the hardest. As masked said, they can just play either their heal song or mana song in groups and leech exp. And once they figure out how to kite, they can play easy mode for 50 levels.

For hardest class, I would say Enchanter, because no matter what they do they gotta pay a shit ton of attention to the game.

That's the description of a terrible bard no one will want to group with in the future though. I have a bard and an enchanter and hands down the bard was harder to play in non-perfect groups while leveling.

Bard is often asked to substitute CC when there is no Enchanter and they have to do it without AOE mez, root, runes, stuns, long durations lulls, long duration charms.

Bard isn't really gear dependant at all though and relatively decent at farming low/mid end stuff for future toons, so in that aspect they are noob friendly.

[Baler]

For a brand new player. Warrior hands down. Gear dependent, can't just wing it without help/friends to group with often.

[Snaggles]

For a brand new player. Warrior hands down. Gear dependent, can't just wing it without help/friends to group with often.

A rogue is actually way worse solo.

[Baler]

A rogue is actually way worse solo.

Rogues get hide and sneak though. So,. They have that over a warrior.
Plus it's way easier to transition into a group as a brand new player with a rogue vs a warrior who is under fit. Especially given backstab.

[Troxx]

For someone brand new to eq, the learning curve is definitely hardest with bard. Other classes like shaman enchanter and necro who have extensive toolkits would be 'harder' in the sense that it will take more time and practice to maximize their proficiency in all aspects.

That aspect simply looks at hard in the sense of how complicated they are to play and does not factor in the "hard" part of playing once you reasonably know what you are doing.

For someone NOT new to eq, none of these classes would qualify as candidates for hardest as they can solo and group with minimal gear requirements and have strong abilities gained at low levels. Self sufficient and require little gear. For the person who already knows eq, warrior and rogue. Group and gear dependent for the full scope of levels 1-60. Low end rangers (no duel wield and double attack until later) and knights will have it hard as well, but spells starting at 9 and onward really help to offset this.

[fadetree]

Depending on what you mean by 'hard', I'd have to go with Enchanter myself. You really have to not only be quick and solve problems on the fly, but you have to know exactly what the spells are and what they do and you have a ton of them. Plus you go down like a cheerleader on saturday night if you screw up AND you get everybody else killed so they hate you.

[Lagaidh]

If you're truly brand spanking new to this game: any of the int casters.

If you're truly new, and you're a cloth squishy and you run up to that first newbie zone mob...

Heh.

[easy_lee]

Bard is harder than a caster. With casters, you don't actually need gear. Bards need some. They also need their instruments, and their spells are spread all over the world. Plus, bards tend to get encumbered due to heavy armor and relatively low strength. And you're switching weapons constantly to put on your instruments. And you have to twist to be useful, which is hard when mobs keep stunning you and you don't know what to prioritize. And you also have to get familiar with changing targets rapidly if you want to do any CC.

So you're dealing with all of the game's mechanics at once. Sure, clothies have more complicated spells (except the wizard). But players can figure that out by just focusing on their spells and asking around. Bards can't focus on anything. They're constantly distracted. So my vote is bard.

In contrast, I'd say monk is the easiest: low gear dependence and the best oh shit button. Monk only gets a little complicated if people ask you to split camps. And even that is easy to learn.

[Izmael]

For a brand new player, probably enchanter. The noob won't understand what to do with the class and will melee and nuke stuff.

[gildor]

lol ....Bard plays like most classes from modern mmos, managing multiple abilities quickly (cooldowns) ...so truely new to EQ but not mmos..bard not the hardest..that would probably go to a hybrid who is a subpar warrior prior to 9.

[easy_lee]

lol ....Bard plays like most classes from modern mmos, managing multiple abilities quickly (cooldowns) ...so truely new to EQ but not mmos..bard not the hardest..that would probably go to a hybrid who is a subpar warrior prior to 9.

Think you're mixing up "hardest to play" with "will die the most." EverQuest twisting, targeting, and game mechanics are far different from modern MMOs. Bard is about more than hitting a lot of buttons. It's about learning the timing, mechanics, and commands specific to EQ.

[fadetree]

Yeah, there's different meanings for 'hard' going on here. There's 'intellectually hard' and 'hard to take without ragequitting'. Enchanter/Bard would be intellectually hard, ungeared warriors (for instance) would be the other.

[Samoht]

Bard is often asked to substitute CC when there is no Enchanter

That is literally the role of a Bard...

[Tann]

That is literally the role of a Bard...

[Snaggles]

Rogues get hide and sneak though. So,. They have that over a warrior.
Plus it's way easier to transition into a group as a brand new player with a rogue vs a warrior who is under fit. Especially given backstab.

I spent a fortune on classic live trying to solo as a rogue. Poison, clickies, later carrying slow proc weapons. The worst equipped warriors were still on par or better per level. They had...
More hps per level/stamina
Higher defense caps
Access to better races
Access to cheap 2 handers
Berserk at low health
This makes bind wound efficient if you have enough hps to solo the next mob

The only time I could catch a break was a caster blue. Assuming I got lucky with backstab circle straffing (I still missed too many backstabs to count). Even later in velious when I had an epic, Fungi and Willsapper I'd put money on the budget warrior with a staff of battle and FBSS. Heck, a gnome warrior can buy armor that has 40% spell haste and you can recharge it with a mana battery.

Mobility wise a rogue is easy. Hide/sneak/numlock and walk away...if you didn't fall in lava you likely wouldn't die. Groups were trivially easy; few rogues do the pulling. Besides a Bard on a raid I'm not sure there is an easier game than a grouped rogue. That bard example was only because my friend spent most his raids playing a song while afk, drunk and high. :p

All the new EQ player needs to play a rogue is a partner. A healer, tank, fear'er. Toe to toe they better have good gear and a prayer.

[Cecily]

I'd argue rogues aren't gear dependent at all. Out of all the melee classes, we're the most efficient with low end weapons. The class is just a walking DoT. Worse equipment means a few extra ticks, but the job gets done all the same.

Warriors can cripple a group with a gear and/or skill deficit, so I'd pick them.

[Vallanor]

Wizards deserve a shout-out for being difficult to stick with through early levels. They're the most shunned from groups while only being like the sixth or seventh best soloer prior to getting their aoe snare at 29. Sure, they're easy in the sense that they push fewer buttons than almost any other class, but they have it incredibly rough if starting out untwinked.

[Snaggles]

I'd argue rogues aren't gear dependent at all. Out of all the melee classes, we're the most efficient with low end weapons. The class is just a walking DoT. Worse equipment means a few extra ticks, but the job gets done all the same.

Warriors can cripple a group with a gear and/or skill deficit, so I'd pick them.

Yea but all a rogue does is dmg and corpse retrievals. Nobody gives you points for doing more dps than a warrior, it's an assumption.

I remember soloing with two SBD's. That is a rough life. High end rogue primaries are usually slow so your melee dps is even worse and you can't get the BS perk. Warriors with two Ykeshas or even a mith 2h were breezing kobolds in Sol B. I can't imagine that same warrior with a 31/37 staff you can buy for a few hundred plat.

But yes, in a group a warrior has to be geared better. They also have to understand aggro and pulling dynamics which isn't exactly EQ101. Good proc weapons with good ratios aren't cheap. If a new player is going to group most the time I wouldn't push them that direction.

[Tuurin]

Hardest to play, or hardest to play well? There's a difference.

[Triiz]

That is literally the role of a Bard...

Literally the role of a bard when there is no enchanter, thanks for reaffirming my statement I guess? But if there is no enchanter or shaman, groups will ask bard to CC, mana song, slow, and maybe haste if it's a group with just a cleric for heals.

Even for a bard solely doing CC, CCing as a bard requires a lot more attention than enchanter. Puller brings 4 mob to group with Enchanter CC? Enchanter casts 1 AOE mez and has 4 ticks to decide what to do next.

Puller brings 4 mobs to group with bard for CC? Bard better start tabbing his ass off and spamming single target mez that lasts 3 ticks, maybe charm one mob for 3 ticks if it's manageable.

I'm not saying Enchanter is an easy class to play well, but even a shitty enchanter can manage a bad pull easily in a group setting.

[Samoht]

Literally the role of a bard when there is no enchanter, thanks for reaffirming my statement I guess? But if there is no enchanter or shaman, groups will ask bard to CC, mana song, slow, and maybe haste if it's a group with just a cleric for heals.

Even for a bard solely doing CC, CCing as a bard requires a lot more attention than enchanter. Puller brings 4 mob to group with Enchanter CC? Enchanter casts 1 AOE mez and has 4 ticks to decide what to do next.

Puller brings 4 mobs to group with bard for CC? Bard better start tabbing his ass off and spamming single target mez that lasts 3 ticks, maybe charm one mob for 3 ticks if it's manageable.

I'm not saying Enchanter is an easy class to play well, but even a shitty enchanter can manage a bad pull easily in a group setting.

The Bard and the Enchanter fill the same in a group. That's like having a Paladin and an SK at the same time. If you already have an Enchanter, then there's not much contribution from a Bard. But if you do not have an Enchanter, it should be expected that the Bard play his role.

[Triiz]

But if you do not have an Enchanter, it should be expected that the Bard play his role.

Thanks for reaffirming my statement again.

[Lhancelot]

"hardest" class is subjective.

Maybe for a hyperactive minded player who has to have lots of buttons to press a wizard or rogue would be hardest due to how boring and simple the player would find them?

It's hard to say what an individual player will excel at and fail at. Everyone is different, and everyone finds different things hard or simple.

[Cecily]

ADHD award goes to monk. Rogues are way more active than most caster classes. If sitting on your ass for 15 mins medding is your thing, more power to you though.

[skarlorn]

warrior is probably the hardest for a 1st time player since you are so gimp until you get 200k of gear on you and level 52 for evasive disc. Expect to die, a lot.

[Spyder73]

having never played EQ at all? Hardest class would be necromancer because 1) reagents 2) would play the class wrong (Doting everything) 3) Mental struggle of watching mana regen w/o clarity 3) learning to charm w/o the tool kit of chanter

I doubt he would make it to level 10.

Don't think it would be enchanter...By the time he was high enough level to be expected to be a respectable mezzer, he would have probably figured it out. No matter what some of you want to think this game is not difficult... 12 year old me figured it out pretty easily without knowing anything about EQ.

[maskedmelonpai]

No matter what some of you want to think this game is not difficult...

...some of you want to think this game is not difficult...


...think this game is not difficult...


...not difficult...



...not difficult...

[Sadiki]

People that think bard is easy group with some terrible bards. It's vastly different and more active than most other classes to play one at a high level. It's not easy just because you "can AFK manasong for exp".

But I'm a terrible bard, so what do I know.

[Toomuch]

Like many people have stated in other words, a lot of this has to do with a few key variables:

1. Is this person going to be soloing, or are they are going to be grouping? Or some of both?

2. Is this person starting 100% from scratch, with absolutely no gear at all? Or are they at least going to be given some basic armor/weapons and stuff? Or will they be a full twink?

3. What level of skill/adaptability does this person have? Is this person your grandma, who has never played a video game in her life? Or is this person a long-time gamer?

If this person is planning on soloing, and will have absolutely no gear to start out with at all, I'd say most difficult would be Rogue, then Warrior, then maybe Paladin or Ranger.

If this person is planning on soloing, and will be fully twinked out, then Warrior might actually be one of the easiest classes to pick up on, but even easier long-term will be someone with more survival tools like a shadowknight or monk, who also are relatively easy to pick up on. A fully twinked int/wis caster class will still get steamrolled if they are having a hard time on the uptake with all the mechanics.

If this person is planning on grouping, and will have absolutely no gear to start out with, the easiest would be any class with a very straightforward/simple role, like a healer or nuker - they can just stand/sit there and do their one job. Hardest might be a pulling class, CC class, or possibly even tanking class if they are less savvy with games.

If this person is planning on grouping, and will be twinked out, then just about any class will probably work, but I'd still say a CC/utility role is probably the hardest for a newbie, and any DPS is probably the easiest, with maybe Mage at the top of that list.

Finally, if you are planning on Duoing with this person, I'd suggest you (the more savvy person) be an enchanter, and the newbie friend guy be a Druid.

[dookieshed]

1. Is this person going to be soloing, or are they are going to be grouping? Or some of both?

2. Is this person starting 100% from scratch, with absolutely no gear at all? Or are they at least going to be given some basic armor/weapons and stuff? Or will they be a full twink?

3. What level of skill/adaptability does this person have? Is this person your grandma, who has never played a video game in her life? Or is this person a long-time gamer?



Thanks for all the input, Toomuch.

1. I'd imagine he will be soloing and grouping. I'll be playing with him whenever possible but I'm sure he'll play on his own too and group with other people.

2. He'll be starting with some gear, but nowhere near full twink. We'll set him up with probably the equivalent of Banded or maybe slightly better depending on the class and a decent weapon.

3. He's a long-time gamer, very smart dude, definitely adaptable.

He's already chosen Bard, but if that doesn't work out, what's your recommendation?

[skarlorn]

Bard will be a great choice.

Ur name is funny OP

[dude]

The hardest class to play in the game is the one you know nothing about.

for me it was wizard if i known i was going to die 5-6 times a night or more. I think i wouldn't had done it. but now that he is over 50 we cut that down to 2 times a night. this was a struggle for the dude.

[Toomuch]

He's already chosen Bard, but if that doesn't work out, what's your recommendation?

Bard will work out. That's my honest recommendation.

There are many ways a bard can solo, and they also offer a heck of a lot to a group. They really are an extremely versatile class, which is why I'm maining one now. Here's a short list of some ways for him to learn how to level:

1. The simple solo "Tank n' Spank". Have him learn to twist 4 of the most effective songs while tanking and fighting mobs. I'd suggest twisting Hymn of Restoration, Selo's Consonant Chain, one of the haste songs (self or party, depending), and then fill in the blank with maybe a dot song or something. Just be careful with AE dot songs pulling adds. If he's got banded+ gear and a decent weapon or 2, he can do this very simple method of solo exping for quite some time, or even possibly tanking in groups.

2. Fear Kiting (level 26+). Have him learn to twist Selo's Consonant Chain, Angstlich's Appalling Screech, one of the haste songs, and either heal or dot song, depending on need. *Advanced method: have him make a hotkey that does both Angstlich's Appalling Screech and Instill Doubt, just in case he'd get a resist.

3. Chant Kiting. A very non-glamorous way of leveling, you can simply equip drums and run away while dotting a single mob with Fufil's Curtailing Chant (level 30), Tuyen's Chant of Flame (38), and Tuyen's Chant of Frost (level 46).

4. AoE Kiting (also known as "swarm" kiting on P99, but true swarm kiting was different on Live). This is a bit advanced, but if you go digging on Youtube, you can find some tutorials on how to do this. Essentially, you grab a train of mobs that all run the same speed, then kill them all at once by playing Point Blank AoE dot songs while strafe-running in a circle just barely outside of the mobs' melee range, but inside the range of the dot song. Again, this is more advanced, and you WILL die learning how to do this, but it is literally the best solo exp I know of in the game. I got 120% (yes, 1.2 levels) in a single pull in Firiona Vie one time.

5. Charm kiting. I'm definitely not an expert on this, I just haven't done my research or tried it much yet. It can be good exp in areas where mobs aren't all that resistant, but do a lot of damage really fast, simply because they'll be doing that damage to each other really fast.

There can also be many different combinations of these things, like charm kiting 2 evenly matched mobs until they are low, then chanting them the rest of the way down to finish them off, etc.

However, if bard just seems super overwhelming, I'd recommend going druid. They can heal, they can port, they can dot, they can nuke, they can quad kite, and eventually once he's high level, he can easily power-level any alt of yours ;).

[Spyder73]

.

[dookieshed]

Bard will work out. That's my honest recommendation.



Thanks again!




Ur name is funny OP

Ayyyyy lmao

[Triiz]

5. Charm kiting. I'm definitely not an expert on this, I just haven't done my research or tried it much yet. It can be good exp in areas where mobs aren't all that resistant, but do a lot of damage really fast, simply because they'll be doing that damage to each other really fast.

There can also be many different combinations of these things, like charm kiting 2 evenly matched mobs until they are low, then chanting them the rest of the way down to finish them off, etc.


In my experience, a charm kiting bard should be keeping both mobs perpetually DOT'd and alternating which mob they are charming since bard charm "resets" aggro.

Start with mob #1, Chant dot Mob #1 with all 3 chants, Charm Mob #1, send Mob #1 to fight Mob #2
Start Chant DOTing Mob #2 with all 3 chants
when charm breaks, charm Mob #2 and send it on Mob #1, and then start re-Chanting mob #1, recharm mob #1 when charm breaks, repeat.

This will make bard charm killing close to twice as fast and uses a lot less mana since your total number of charms per fight will be a lot less. Jboots/Sow Pots make it a lot easier so you don't have to keep selo's up, but it's doable without. Obviously works best 46+ when bard has all 3 Chants available to them.