Resist Check and Charm Question

[Barlu]

Did some searching but couldn't find the answer so apologies if this is redundant. When you charm a mob does the game designate the duration of the charm at the time the spell lands or does it continue to check to see if it will break every tick? I know at times when I've had a mob charmed for awhile Tash will wear off. I'm wondering if that makes it more likely to break or if it just checks my charisma and the mobs MR at the time the spell lands and then assigns a duration then. Thanks in advance!

[Nybras]

Your charisma and the monster's magic resist is checked every tic that charm is active.

[Swish]

Charm duration itself has a few factors such as your charisma,the mob's MR and your level vs the mobs level.

A broken tash shouldn't readjust the original charm timer, the check should only apply at the point where it lands. But do reapply tash again when charm breaks, obviously :p

[kuuky]

While we are talking charm, how important is 200 cha for a bard to charm effectively?

[Nybras]

My friend brought up to my attention that high charisma on a bard is important for the initial resist check.

[Troxx]

While we are talking charm, how important is 200 cha for a bard to charm effectively?

For charm, it's not important.

Charm will only last 3-4 tics max so any difference between 200+ and ... say ... 110 is negligible. Charisma helps with missed notes and lulls. As such you should always pseudo-favor this stat. I've got about 145 charisma in normal gear iirc and leveled all the way to 60 mostly charming while lfg. Charm breaks so rarely before the charm expires that I generally went HOURS between early charm breaks.

I only break out the charisma gear when I need to lull break a high level camp (BM in velks, crypt or king area in seb, SG etc).

[Sancta]

Charisma helps with missed notes

Dexterity helps with missed notes, not charisma.

[kuuky]

Ok so cha is needed but not to the point where its a major focus. Got it ty all

[kentaris]

I thought CHA also helped with mez resists.

[Baler]

Enchanter
200 CHA + 59+ shaman = 255 cha
205 CHA + self buff = 255 cha
>255 CHA buffed is your goal!<

Make sure the mob is tashed and preferably malo'd. Give it -magic resist items.

Yes if your tash ends on the charmed target it's MR goes up and it gains chance to break on server tick.

Your CHA + Targets MR + Your Lvl vs Targets lvl are all known to factor into enchanter pet breaks.
It's not a duration or a timer. It's a check every server tick. You can literally have your pet break back to back, over and over if you have bad luck.

[P99Druid]

Charm duration itself has a few factors such as your charisma,the mob's MR and your level vs the mobs level.

A broken tash shouldn't readjust the original charm timer, the check should only apply at the point where it lands. But do reapply tash again when charm breaks, obviously :p

Go back to promoting red server in every post, you're better at that than enchanter advice. Charm most definitely checks every tick to try and break or hold. Tash falling off most definitely does increase the chance of it breaking early. There's nothing you can do about it besides wait for it to break and retash or break it yourself when it's safe to do so and retash it then.

[Lhancelot]

Go back to promoting red server in every post, you're better at that than enchanter advice. Charm most definitely checks every tick to try and break or hold. Tash falling off most definitely does increase the chance of it breaking early. There's nothing you can do about it besides wait for it to break and retash or break it yourself when it's safe to do so and retash it then.

Dang. Swish got pwned!

[Barlu]

Thanks everyone for clearing that up!

[Swish]

Go back to promoting red server in every post, you're better at that than enchanter advice. Charm most definitely checks every tick to try and break or hold. Tash falling off most definitely does increase the chance of it breaking early. There's nothing you can do about it besides wait for it to break and retash or break it yourself when it's safe to do so and retash it then.

I've leveled 3 enchanters (one sold when selling for plat was legal) and I can remember plenty of instances when tash fades and the charm continues for plenty of time. Maybe that's a coincidence but show me some solid evidence - not from live in 1999 or on the TLPs right now, from P99.

You done a test?

Me and an old pal Propo test a theory on once you break 200 charisma, charm length becomes much more stable (so is there a need to go to 255?). I'll see if I can dig that out, it was done in City of Mist pre-Velious. That was actual testing and not getting emotional at someone else's words on a forum because you disagree with them ;)

[Troxx]

Dexterity helps with missed notes, not charisma.

They both do based on my p99 research. There's arguably a lot of bad information out there - but that's the word on the street based on multiple sources.

[Sancta]

based on multiple sources.

Care you post them? I'm curious

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Your CHA + Targets MR + Your Lvl vs Targets lvl are all known to factor into enchanter pet breaks.
It's not a duration or a timer. It's a check every server tick. You can literally have your pet break back to back, over and over if you have bad luck, and then some dickwad in your group will ask you what your CHA is at, guaranteed.

added in the inevitable

[Jshaman]

You done a test?

Me and an old pal Propo test a theory on once you break 200 charisma, charm length becomes much more stable (so is there a need to go to 255?). I'll see if I can dig that out, it was done in City of Mist pre-Velious. That was actual testing and not getting emotional at someone else's words on a forum because you disagree with them ;)

Would be interested to see some of this data as well. Currently leveling a enchanter and still trying to decide which side I believe. Perhaps once I have enough gear I'll conduct some tests or my own. (I have no emotional attachment to either side ;))

[jackd104]

Something I've never found a straight answer on. Does charisma matter for Necro undead charming (and lulls)?

[Sancta]

Something I've never found a straight answer on. Does charisma matter for Necro undead charming (and lulls)?

No, and it doesn't for druids either.

[Triiz]

While we are talking charm, how important is 200 cha for a bard to charm effectively?

Just to go a step further than what was already said, I leveled my bard 55-60 almost exclusively charming with around 115-120 CHA and I can't think of a single instance of charm breaking early on a blue mob.

In my experience, CHA's importance to bard charming is very overstated on p99. With an Enchanter, higher CHA has a very noticeable effect on charm durations. For a bard, at least for me, either charm landed or it didn't.

A little piece of my soul dies every time I see a "WTB CHA twink gear for bard" auction.

[Kich867]

I've leveled 3 enchanters (one sold when selling for plat was legal) and I can remember plenty of instances when tash fades and the charm continues for plenty of time. Maybe that's a coincidence but show me some solid evidence - not from live in 1999 or on the TLPs right now, from P99.

You done a test?

Me and an old pal Propo test a theory on once you break 200 charisma, charm length becomes much more stable (so is there a need to go to 255?). I'll see if I can dig that out, it was done in City of Mist pre-Velious. That was actual testing and not getting emotional at someone else's words on a forum because you disagree with them ;)

I'll try and test this out tonight or tomorrow on my druid, interesting topic. Can compare keeping glamour on VS dispelling it after charm and see average duration.

[Egilmn]

A little piece of my soul dies every time I see a "WTB CHA twink gear for bard" auction.

Does it? What of bard lull and crit resists? Does charisma not affect bard lull? If it does then any bard who doesn't value charisma would be bad. Otherwise carry on.

[mickmoranis]

mob level check > CHA check > MR check in that order, or something like that order... but yea

[Izmael]

You are all wrong.

A charm duration is determined by two things:

- If you are sending the pet into 5+ mobs, the pet has 80% chance to break as he aggroes the mobs

- If you give 10k+ worth of gear to the pet, the pet has 90% chance to break next tick and will also become immune to stuns for a brief period.


These stats were compiled from a big sample of breaks.

[branamil]

mob level check > CHA check > MR check in that order, or something like that order... but yea

In my experience CHA matters less than MR.

Barely notice a difference going from 150 to 250 cha.

We need to do a test:

100 charms with no Tash and 150 CHA.

100 charms with no Tash and 250 CHA.

100 charms with Tash and 150 CHA.

100 charms with Tash and 250 CHA.

[Troxx]

Care you post them? I'm curious

Sure I'll dig around when I get home today. Nothing on the wiki but as I researched bard in the classic era when Troxx was new here it came up multiple times. The consensus was that the level of the song and your skill at either singing or instrument was the most important factor with dexerity being a secondary check and charisma being the third and least important check.

Bard songs are so short in duration that charisma is functionally most important for lulling. For His reason alone charisma is an important bard stat. Having charisma float in the mid 100s in standard gear with a few + cha pieces to situationally bump up to the 200 range is very important for any bard. In the post-monk fd/sneak change era bards become one of the strongest pullers in the game. Splitting a tough, unbroken camp as a bard with low charisma is no bueno.

Anecdotally (always to be taken with a grain of salt) I have never appreciated a difference in mez chance success and resist rates. Charm duration is so short it again, doesn't matter much.

Anecdotally (again, not worth much) missed notes are fewer when charisma buffed.

[Triiz]

Does it? What of bard lull and crit resists? Does charisma not affect bard lull? If it does then any bard who doesn't value charisma would be bad. Otherwise carry on.

Since you don't know the answer to that question, I can only assume you've never played a bard .

My post was specific to charm, yes it impacts lull but that doesn't change the fact it makes no sense for a bard to walk around in Opalline earrings/+7CHA rings/+7CHA Bracers if they're not expecting to lull something in the next 2 minutes or chain lull over a long period of time. This is especially true at low levels and of higher level bards that mostly solo.

A kobold's jester crown gives +30 CHA in one slot and is easily obtainable, Neriad Shawl gives +25CHA in one slot and is relatively easily obtainable on this server later in levels. I stand by my statement.

[Troxx]

Sources for charisma and missed notes:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1039608&postcount=5

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1043907&postcount=14

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1164695&postcount=5

There's a lot more but I'm lazy.