Pantheon - anyone been keeping track?

[lethstang]

Apparently its an MMO in development thats going to cater to our little niche.

[Squabbles123]

Apparently its an MMO in development thats going to cater to our little niche.

I had not heard of this before, but I noticed this when looking around:

https://pantheonmmo.com/about_us/the_team/

Brad McQuaid!

Thats all I had to see, I'm now very interested in this title.

[Hitmonkey]

They've been working on it for a while where you been and it looks just like EQ llive so it's going to suck or they're going to get sued for copying EQ

They streamed a couple game sessions even the terminology is exactly the same. Not saying I'm not interested but I would like to see something a little more creative from him

[fadetree]

? Uh, yeah. I've been keeping track for about 2 years now. I am a contributor, which means I paid some money on their kickstarter and I now am supposed to get early access.
It looks ok, I'm not one to overhype these things. I liked Vanguard and loved EQ, so I figured I'd like this one too. As long as its hard and you can't pay to win I'll be happy.

[fadetree]

They've been working on it for a while where you been and it looks like you live so it's going to suck or they're going to get sued for copying EQ

Yeah, no. They won't get sued for 'copying' EQ lol. The guy, Brad McQuaid, originated EQ. And yeah it's been a while but these are HUGE undertakings and he's doing it without the backing of a giant conglomerate throwing fistfulls of money in the door. As far as I can see it's proceeding apace and I expect it will go beta sometime in the next 2 years.

[loramin]

I had not heard of this before, but I noticed this when looking around:

https://pantheonmmo.com/about_us/the_team/

Brad McQuaid!

You missed his PR tour here, but if you search you can probably find posts from it. The staff even tried to enable some officially-endorsed RMT to support Panetheon's development, but after years and years of drilling in to people's heads that RMT was wrong the reaction from many was ... not positive.

[dude]

they must be walking dead fans

Terminus those who arrive survive.

[Hitmonkey]

Yeah, no. They won't get sued for 'copying' EQ lol. The guy, Brad McQuaid, originated EQ. And yeah it's been a while but these are HUGE undertakings and he's doing it without the backing of a giant conglomerate throwing fistfulls of money in the door. As far as I can see it's proceeding apace and I expect it will go beta sometime in the next 2 years.

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

[Izmael]

In before some genius chimes in saying how much Brad sucks (after playing a game by Brad non stop for 18 years and posting on a forum about a Brad's game).

[Lhancelot]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

It's kind of like a musician that creates that first master album that sweeps the world with it's creativity.

Then the musician creates newer music and albums and none of them come close to that first awesome album.

After years of failed music, the musician then tries to recreate a new album but decides to try to add stuff that was in the first album, but instead of coming off as creative it comes off as stale and just a bad copy of the first awesome album made years earlier.

We have heard this song before. :(

[Squabbles123]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

[Lhancelot]

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

I don't see a lawsuit either, but I do see what his gripe is about.

I was kind of surprised that there's gnomes, ogres, warriors, all the names we are familiar are being used in Pantheon it seems.

I really hope the game is worth playing, but was a tad disappointed that more creativity was not used with the classes, races, etc.

[Triiz]

You missed his PR tour here, but if you search you can probably find posts from it. The staff even tried to enable some officially-endorsed RMT to support Panetheon's development, but after years and years of drilling in to people's heads that RMT was wrong the reaction from many was ... not positive.

I had no idea about this. The OP was edited, but going by the replies they were raffling xp potions, early Velious access, pre-nerf fungi staffs. I'm surprised Daybreak wasn't all over shutting that shit down.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137820

[loramin]

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

You have to understand what "IP" means. It can mean trademarks, like say "EverQuest(tm)"; Pantheon definitely isn't using that. It can mean patents, like say "I've discovered an algorithm for sorting characters by race faster" ... but it's unlikely Pantheon is using any patented technology ... or, to be more accurate, they probably are, as is just about any software company on the planet; software patents are a mess. But Pantheon doesn't have to worry about them anymore than any other company their size.

So that leaves copyright. You can copyright works, but you can't copyright ideas. I can copyright this post (in fact, as the author by default I own the copyright on it), and Verant/SOE owns the copyright on their source code. But unless Pantheon literally copies old Verant code there's no copyright violation. And as a programmer I can guarantee they're not doing that, if only because 15+ year old code is nearly worthless.

So yes, you can make an exact copy of a game if you want, as long as you don't use their trademarked names, copyrighted images or source code, or violate any patents. And people have done exactly that: just look at the app store on your phone ;). Or, more recently, some guy made a Zelda fan game, and Nintendo came down hard on him. He's still planning to release (basically) the exact same game, just now with the Zelda IP removed. And he's on solid legal ground.

Important Caveat: IP law is way more complex than my simple explanation, so if you want real answers talk to a lawyer.

I'm surprised Daybreak wasn't all over shutting that shit down.

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

[Lhancelot]

Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

What "agreement?"

[loramin]

What "agreement?"

We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191146

[Lhancelot]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191146

Thx for finding that!

[Triiz]

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

This quote from edited OP and the last 2 pages of the thread make it sound like the sole reason it didn't happen is because the Kickstarter campaign failed.

We are sorry to hear that the Kickstarter project for Pantheon did not meet it's funding, so we have removed the tier reward section of this post to prevent confusion.

[Hitmonkey]

A lot of IP Google lawyers in here I see lol.

If you watch the latest live stream of game play the monk, cleric, and enchanter class are straight rips from current EQ. Skills, spells, class name, game mechanics... Lifted straight from EQ.

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

[loramin]

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a Google employee (the closest I get is having worked in the Google buildings before Google bought them). However, the basics of IP law really aren't hard to understand, and once you do you realize that an "idea" is not a relevant term in IP. It either has to be an idea for a patentable process/invention, or it has to be an idea that you write down, and then copyright what you wrote, or an idea for a company/product name that you trademark.

EDIT: There's actually a few other categories of IP, but I left them out for simplicity.

Outside of that there simply is no legal protection for anything else unless you and the people involved draw up a contract for it. Pantheon could literally copy every race, class, and zone from EQ, exactly, and as long as they replaced everything that's protected, ie. made entirely new art assets, gave the guild leaders new text, renamed everything, wrote fresh code etc.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property. It explains things much better than I did, and includes other types of IP I didn't bother with.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the "map" of the zone might be copyrightable (I don't think it is, but again I'm no lawyer), so perhaps you couldn't put every tree in the exact same spot either.

[Caiu]

Just another cash in by known drug addict Mcquaid. This is a man who undeniably stole pain medication from his own employees during his tenure on Vanguard. It's laughable that people are under the delusion that he had anything to do with what made EQ magical originally. Personally if it ever is actually released I expect a barebones hack job but more than likely vaporware is in the picture more than an actual release.

[Bruno]

? Uh, yeah. I've been keeping track for about 2 years now. I am a contributor, which means I paid some money on their kickstarter and I now am supposed to get early access.
It looks ok, I'm not one to overhype these things. I liked Vanguard and loved EQ, so I figured I'd like this one too. As long as its hard and you can't pay to win I'll be happy.

Vanguard broke my heart and I haven't been the same since. I keep my expectations pretty low these days to avoid that disappointment. If nothing else it will be fun leveling up and exploring in a new game.

[branamil]

Have 0 expectations from it and there is a small chance they'll be exceeded.

[Hitmonkey]

. Pantheon could literally copy every race, class, and zone from EQ, exactly, and as long as they replaced everything that's protected, ie. made entirely new art assets, gave the guild leaders new text, renamed everything, wrote fresh code

You seem like the local derper to keep revisiting this incorrectly, and left out the "excecution" part of the "idea + execution=IP" part. Vaguely laid out "ideas" get copyright all the time (looking at you apple) especially in the software field (my field).

The same reason DC never made a Wolverine character and just called him Bob is the same reason you can't copy a software game idea thats executed the same way (MMO) with the same game mechanics (monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death) and just rename stuff, which is what caught my eye.

... actually was thinking somebody was going to mention that he had a deal with DB to use the IP. ~ back to the original point I was actually quite disappointed there's just going to be a refresh a EQ and not a new idea

[loramin]

monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death

So, I'm not looking for a specific law or statute or anything, but can you even point me to a wikipedia page of a general concept which suggests that a company could prevent another company from doing something as generic as make a monk with FD?

Because maybe, just maybe, the reason you don't see FD monks in other games has nothing whatsoever to do with IP, and everything to do with the fact that when most people think of a monk they picture Bruce Lee or Jet Li, not some guy lying on the ground pretending to be dead. Well that and the fact that most MMOs don't even have monks.

[dcbone86]

A lot of IP Google lawyers in here I see lol.

If you watch the latest live stream of game play the monk, cleric, and enchanter class are straight rips from current EQ. Skills, spells, class name, game mechanics... Lifted straight from EQ.

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

You apparently failed your Google fu training because it's code, art/assets and music that are protected in video games. Unless DB can prove they ripped code or assets, it's not infringing. You know, cuz "monks" and "clerics" and fantasy characters casting spells in 3rd person with hot bars and buttons UI is unique to EQ and daybreak is the only company who can use them in their games. Lmao get out of here.

[Rummol]

Vanguard had a monk class that could feign death. The class name (monk) and the skill name (feign death) were exactly the same as EQ as well. I didn't see VG getting sued.

[Ennewi]

In before some genius chimes in saying how much Brad sucks (after playing a game by Brad non stop for 18 years and posting on a forum about a Brad's game).

Just another cash in by known drug addict Mcquaid. This is a man who undeniably stole pain medication from his own employees during his tenure on Vanguard. It's laughable that people are under the delusion that he had anything to do with what made EQ magical originally. Personally if it ever is actually released I expect a barebones hack job but more than likely vaporware is in the picture more than an actual release.

1000 points to Izmael. Caiu takes over the role of thefloydian.

[Tankdan]

The same reason DC never made a Wolverine character and just called him Bob is the same reason you can't copy a software game idea thats executed the same way (MMO) with the same game mechanics (monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death) and just rename stuff, which is what caught my eye.


Bruh my IQ just dropped exceptionally low after reading this. Literally every game out there right now does this.

[Sage Truthbearer]

with the same game mechanics (monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death) and just rename stuff, which is what caught my eye.

Did EQ even invent Feign Death? I am pretty sure that's been in D&D forever.

[Ennewi]

Vaguely laid out "ideas" get copyright all the time (looking at you apple) especially in the software field (my field).

The same reason DC never made a Wolverine character and just called him Bob

Bigby Wolf (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?65446-Bigby-Wolf-vs-Wolverine)

"Fables was a comic book series published by DC Comics's Vertigo imprint beginning in 2002." - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fables_(comics))

is the same reason you can't copy a software game idea thats executed the same way (MMO) with the same game mechanics (monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death) and just rename stuff, which is what caught my eye.

Luc Besson vs Moebius (http://filmconnoisseur.blogspot.com/2015/07/book-to-film-comparison-incal-and-fifth.html). Valve vs Blizzard (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Blizzard-Valve-Settle-DOTA-Lawsuit-42430.html).

https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/620712999988237921/?ctp=7

has Dota 2 May 16, 2015 @ 12:08pm
Originally posted by PikaStu!:
While the exact reason for SK's conversion to WK was not made public, it's probably either due to appealing to the low violence version or to Blizzard.

Keep in mind, even if it was done due to Blizzard it may have been for legal reasons or it may have been done out of courtesy. Part of the initial lawsuit about Dota going to Valve was that Blizzard could make a then named "Blizzard Dota". Neither company is probably looking to further confuse consumers and want to make sure that both products are distinct.
That's the difference between Valve and Blizzard.
When Valve used names and images that were copyrighted by Blizzard, they waited for the game to get popular to make a lawsuit, giving that the game had at least 2 years when they suddenly remembered that "Necrolyte" "Windrunner" and other names and heroes were copyrighted.
When the Black Mesa Source team started making the game, Valve told them to remove the "Source" in the title to avoid any future copyrighted issue, before the game was even released.


A lot of IP Google lawyers in here I see lol.

If you watch the latest live stream of game play the monk, cleric, and enchanter class are straight rips from current EQ. Skills, spells, class name, game mechanics... Lifted straight from EQ.

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

PRotF's Dire Lord looks to be the rough equivalent to EQ's Shadow Knight, but it has its own name/differences just like WoW's Death Knight. Also, you're watching footage of a game in pre-alpha stage, so everything you're pointing out could very well (and is likely) just be a placeholder for their own original sound, name, ability, etc. In fact, that has been stressed a number of times.

[Victorio]

Mostly everything in EQ was ripped from D&D and they had no issues. Sure they changed monk ability names like "move silently" to "sneak" and "slow fall" to "safe fall." The disciplines were still called disciplines, even if some were renamed.

Basically, most things (including general mechanics) will be copyable even if they do need to end up tweaking some ability names.

There's so many books and games in the fantasy genre going back a long long time. It can be claimed they're inspired by those and D&D instead of copying from EQ. Try proving otherwise in court.

[skipdog]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

You've got to be an idiot if you think Daybreak can sue because some MMORPG came out and used some of the same names for abilities/classes/terminology.

[fadetree]

You've got to be an idiot if you think Daybreak can sue because some MMORPG came out and used some of the same names for abilities/classes/terminology.

Lighten up, Francis. He's not an idiot, he's just wrong, happens to the best of us.

[Lhancelot]

Lighten up, Francis. He's not an idiot, he's just wrong, happens to the best of us.

Hey, anyone that's wrong has to be an idiot!

[HappyTr33z]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.


There is nothing in Pantheon that is conflicting with anything Daybreak owns as part of the EverQuest IP. The terminology came about from the players, obviously they'll continue to use the same terminology where it applies in other games.

So Daybreak doesn't have to "let" them do anything. Pretty much everything that they could say is copied from EQ are typical fantasy RPG races/classes, with typical fantasy RPG spells, none of which they hold exclusive rights of.

[HappyTr33z]

I was kind of surprised that there's gnomes, ogres, warriors, all the names we are familiar are being used in Pantheon it seems.

I really hope the game is worth playing, but was a tad disappointed that more creativity was not used with the classes, races, etc.

Eh, for me I would prefer them to use the archetypical races/classes. I don't mind a few "out there" races/classes, but as a general rule I like the typical high-fantasy stuff most. I can't recall the name of the game but there was this one MMO I played years ago that didn't have any of the usual races/classes you'd come to expect, instead there were "runes", "blademasters", "wardens", etc and it just felt odd. The classes in EQ, and other games using primarily DnD style classes, just make sense.

The game is meant for classic EQ players, I would expect them to atleast bring back the original race/class lineup that was available in the base version of EQ. If they wanted to add on from there, that's great. Alot of people got attached to their in-game characters though, and being able to revive their old EQ character in Pantheon
would probably be quite important.

[applesauce25r624]

you guys derailed the shit out of this thread

can we please get back to talking about why bards aren't in the original release ?

[applesauce25r624]

(monk fd is a good example -which is the key part and why you've never seen another game with a class called monk with the skill called feign death)

??? WoW has Warriors with the skill Taunt, Rogues with the skill Backstab, etc

[Kydat]

PRotF's Dire Lord looks to be the rough equivalent to EQ's Shadow Knight, but it has its own name/differences just like WoW's Death Knight.
Death Knight predates WoW and EQ.

[Ennewi]

Yep and Shadow Knight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Knights) predates EQ, but in a different setting altogether. Every dev team is going to have their own approach to class types, similar though they may be, but having to crack open a thesaurus just to (appear to) break away from past influential IPs doesn't make sense. Feign death shouldn't have to be referred to as thanatosis.

Back on topic. No bard on release wouldn't be surprising considering how complex they are and how much they've been nerfed on here in a roundabout way. The Pantheon devs have said they don't want the game to be easily soloable, and necros/bards are the two classes that come to mind when soloing is brought up so that might play into whether they make it in at release. At least while waiting to play necro there are other purecaster options, but bard doesn't have a class that compares to it. Other than that, the only other thing that is a bit hard to accept is the whole two race limitation for paladins, but that's possibly/hopefully due to a third race option being planned for an expansion.

[Murri]

Yea lets get this back on the important topic of bard not being in the game at release. Everyone knows bards are the most well respected and skilled players of everquest. Perhaps they are worried all of the best players will only be playing one class?

[Jermaphobe]

I remember being pumped about the prospect of the game three years ago. The game was projected to come out this year in it's failed kickstarter. That probably won't happen unless it's an early alpha version. I have my doubts about it but honestly I would love for it to launch in the next year or two. I want to believe, I'm just older now and more cautious about expectations.

[fadetree]

Yeah, I hear that. We'll see. I hope it starts alpha or whatever relatively soon.

[Breeziyo]

I'm hyped for it to release but trying to reign myself in in case something goes terribly wrong.

Their PR guy on reddit answered a question about MMO development time:

Typically they take around ~5 years but that is not a set number, they are a huge undertaking and can take much longer.
We are around ~3 years in, looking good and making great progress towards testing

I think they said a while back that they want to be in testing for around a year, so whenever pre-alpha starts you probably have a good idea of their release

[Silvurwolf]

I remember being so hyped up for Diablo 3.. like years worth of hype then it dropped and I didn't like it nearly as much as d2. Hope that doesn't happen with this game

[Lhancelot]

I remember being so hyped up for Diablo 3.. like years worth of hype then it dropped and I didn't like it nearly as much as d2. Hope that doesn't happen with this game

I remember Vanguard, Rift, EQ2, WAR, Age of Conan, basically every new MMO that came out after EQ1 was a disappointment that either took years to get on track with future patches or simply died where it stood never improving.

[supermonk]

there's a lot of assumptions and misinformation here. I deal with technology contracts, such as IP infringement, as part of my day job so here's my unofficial legal answer.

I just did a quick google search for Everquest to look for (C) vs (R) and saw that latter. Based off that assumption, Everquest is protected by trademark (R), not copyright (C)..those are not one in the same and are two distinct types of intellectual property. in layman's terms, think of trademark like coca-cola; it's a brand...pepsi is the exact same shit, but it has a different brand. trademarks protect the name and copyrights protect the creative work. Pantheon does not infringe on IP trademark because nowhere does it say Everquest, even though for all intensive purposes it tastes like Everquest. If it were copyright, it would be a whole different story, but Pantheon is within it's legal bounds to make their game as long as no direct EQ references are mentioned (this includes unique and distinguishable zones, items, mobs, etc.)

Now hypothetically speaking, even if Daybreak tried to lawyer the hell out of Pantheon and sue Mr. McQuaid, it's not a profitable move. Pantheon, which i'm sure will be profitable, is not the likes of Apple or Google...litigation fees for taking them to court are expensive. Realistically speaking, they would never sue Mr. McQuaid, but rather they would just let Pantheon marinate to see if it has profit potential. The smart move, which they will do, is just buy Pantheon from Brad and make it a Daybreak game. Similar to Verant --> Sony. In the end, it's all about the monayyyy

[Murri]

i'm so excited for pantheon http://i.imgur.com/YcVPFQO.png

[supermonk]

If you want to want to really get deeper in the rabbit hole, Daybreak has a much better chance suing Rogean & Co. for P99 than Pantheon, because legally, P99 is infringing on Everquest's trademark. Rogean & Co. are smart because they are mitigating the likelihood of litigation by A.) not making money on the front end by charging us a subscription based off EQ's trademark (they're only asking for donations) B.) making it very clear the trademark is Everquest (he's technicaly giving them free marketing) and not his IP and ultimately C.) this is an old ass game man, who the fuck cares; Daybreak would lose more money in litigation fees even if they took Rogean to court...it's just not profitable. No offense to Rogean, but he's a small speck in the grand scheme of things in terms of Daybreak's balance sheet and just aren't worth their time. This is an extreme example, but you don't see Louis Vuitton taking Mr. Wang Chung to court for selling knockoffs of their handbags in the streets of NY.

[fadetree]

for all intensive purposes

Because you are someone who works with legal documents and copyright/trademark law, I assume you know that it is really "for all intents and purposes".

[Ennewi]

"For all intended purposes" would also be acceptable, with its use dating back to the late 1800s.

[welly321]

He's just another internet lawyer/paralegal that has no idea wtf he's talking about.

[gildor]

The environmental adaptation system looks cool as hell in Pantheon

[Grizzler]

The environmental adaptation system looks cool as hell in Pantheon

I'm not sure I am sold on it yet but it's an alright first pass. It seems like they are making a gear based system without gear. Really weird, hope they change it more down the line. Otherwise still keeping my eye on this for sure.

[Rygar]

If you want to want to really get deeper in the rabbit hole, Daybreak has a much better chance suing Rogean & Co. for P99 than Pantheon, because legally, P99 is infringing on Everquest's trademark. Rogean & Co. are smart because they are mitigating the likelihood of litigation by A.) not making money on the front end by charging us a subscription based off EQ's trademark (they're only asking for donations) B.) making it very clear the trademark is Everquest (he's technicaly giving them free marketing) and not his IP and ultimately C.) this is an old ass game man, who the fuck cares; Daybreak would lose more money in litigation fees even if they took Rogean to court...it's just not profitable. No offense to Rogean, but he's a small speck in the grand scheme of things in terms of Daybreak's balance sheet and just aren't worth their time. This is an extreme example, but you don't see Louis Vuitton taking Mr. Wang Chung to court for selling knockoffs of their handbags in the streets of NY.

Thought it was common knowledge they entered an agreement with daybreak... Don't see them suing unless they violate said agreement (believe they can't charge subscriptions or have pay to win or use donations that don't directly go to server maintenance).

Just going off what I gathered on the forums

[supermonk]

He's just another internet lawyer/paralegal that has no idea wtf he's talking about.
almost fooled you

[Sancta]

The environmental adaptation system looks cool as hell in Pantheon

If you really think about it though it's just "keys" you equip on specific parts of your body to enter specific locations, not to mention multiple tiers and multiple types of keys per specific part of your body. Ever do a VP key? Now do that for every part of your body multiplied by 100.

I guess if you're into getting multiple keys for multiple tiers to enter multiple closed off locations you'll love that system!

[aaezil]

Lol you cant copyright or trademark an archetype or a game mechanic. Some poeple man...

[loramin]

Thought it was common knowledge they entered an agreement with daybreak... Don't see them suing unless they violate said agreement (believe they can't charge subscriptions or have pay to win or use donations that don't directly go to server maintenance).

Just going off what I gathered on the forums

That an agreement exists is common knowledge (there was even an official announcement post), but the exact details of what both parties agreed to are not known. There are many theories (eg. that P99 agreed never to open a new server), but only the P99 team and Daybreak know for sure.

[TimTheToolmanTaylor]

i wish they had more dev diaries or updates. their forums are just all these neckbeards stating what they want in the game but as far as i'm concerned there's nothing of real value that the people post. hopefully, the game will come out end of this year, but i doubt it. i'd probably expect spring of 2018 considering the lack of content/updates.

[supermonk]

That an agreement exists is common knowledge (there was even an official announcement post), but the exact details of what both parties agreed to are not known. There are many theories (eg. that P99 agreed never to open a new server), but only the P99 team and Daybreak know for sure.

what is rogean was brad mcquaid all along...

[fadetree]

If you really think about it though it's just "keys" you equip on specific parts of your body to enter specific locations, not to mention multiple tiers and multiple types of keys per specific part of your body. Ever do a VP key? Now do that for every part of your body multiplied by 100.

I guess if you're into getting multiple keys for multiple tiers to enter multiple closed off locations you'll love that system!

Wow, you have come to a huge conclusion based on very little evidence. Lets see, if there are 8 'parts' of the body that are in play for this mechanism, and if they are like VP key difficulty, then that's about 3 months calendar per key, so...
8*(100*3 months)=2400 months=12 years.
Well, damn, no WAY I'm playing that game now that I know this.

[Sancta]

Wow, you have come to a huge conclusion based on very little evidence. Lets see, if there are 8 'parts' of the body that are in play for this mechanism, and if they are like VP key difficulty, then that's about 3 months calendar per key, so...
8*(100*3 months)=2400 months=12 years.
Well, damn, no WAY I'm playing that game now that I know this.

Obvious exaggeration is obvious.

Don't get me wrong, still gonna play the shit out of this game. But change my view point though, how does it not just look like an elaborate tiered key system? "Put X into these slots to pass Y area." Many X, many Y.

[Phenyo]

Its a feature that will get scrapped

[fadetree]

Obvious exaggeration is obvious.



Yeah, that's what I thought about what you said.

[Sancta]

Yeah, that's what I thought about what you said.


but really though doesn't it look like a tiered key system? Get these "keys" in these "slots" to gain access to a certain area =(

[Sk00ba5t3v3]

Ashes of Creation will destroy this pipe dream

[Crushfield]

Ashes of Creation will destroy this pipe dream

Looks like it's basically American BDO?

[fadetree]

but really though doesn't it look like a tiered key system? Get these "keys" in these "slots" to gain access to a certain area =(

I suppose, but I don't know that that kind of thing is so terrible. There's only so many ways to add fake hardness to a video game. We'll see, my main point is that jumping to conclusions now is probably not the thing to do.