Incoming Faction Nerf - get it before it's too late!

[Lhancelot]

Just a reminder, get your faction done in WL off giants if you want Coldain/CoV faction maxed!

Remember, a month ago or longer they claimed to be patching in the changes, making it take MUCH longer to raise faction from killing Kael giants.

Shouldn't be much longer, nerf will happen.

[shuklak]

What should a 40s mage think of this? Anything worth pursuing?

[Lhancelot]

What should a 40s mage think of this? Anything worth pursuing?

Yes, you are never too low to factionquest.

You might want to get your factions maxed so you can get quested armors if you ever get them as loot, or if you buy the MQ for them.

[loramin]

What should a 40s mage think of this? Anything worth pursuing?

They should think that this is just a fix for a bug and they don't need to drop what they're doing to exploit it before it gets fixed. Remember, everyone on live managed to get their faction up just fine without "cheating" it this way, so everyone who factions on this server after the fix goes in will be just fine also.

EDIT: No offense intended to anyone taking advantage of this bug. There have been thousands of bugs like this in P99's history, and tons people have taken advantage of them. I'm not faulting anyone, just saying it's not like Velious factioning is all that hard in the first place that anyone needs to interrupt what they're doing to exploit it.

[Lhancelot]

They should think that this is just a fix for a bug and they don't need to drop what they're doing to exploit it before it gets fixed. Remember, everyone on live managed to get their faction up just fine without "cheating" it this way, so everyone who factions on this server after the fix goes in will be just fine also.

EDIT: No offense intended to anyone taking advantage of this bug. There have been thousands of bugs like this in P99's history, and tons people have taken advantage of them. I'm not faulting anyone, just saying it's not like Velious factioning is all that hard in the first place that anyone needs to interrupt what they're doing to exploit it.

I thought this was working as intended, and that the change was only being implemented because on Live it ALSO got changed?

As it stands now, it takes a good 5-6 hours of constant grinding to get your faction maxed, if this is cheating anything I don't see how. It's still a significant time dump just to get some faction up.

I don't think this upcoming patch is "fixing" anything, it just makes it so you have to grind faction 5 times as long as you do now.

Exactly how does this help anything, or improve upon the game by making faction grind even longer than it is.

[loramin]

it takes a good 5-6 hours of constant grinding to get your faction maxed, if this is cheating anything I don't see how.

/rant on
Please understand gentle readers that I have been hunting Frost Giants in Great Divide for almost 10 levels. Quite some time ago I maxxed out my Coldain faction. So when a guildmate offered to ** some of the Skyshrine armor with me I figured I should be getting close to Ally with CoV faction. Just to be sure I made the perilous journey through Kael to Wakening Land to present myself to Woushi and see how I stood with the dragons. How did I con you ask. Ally? Warmly? NO!!!! I was Apprehensive!!!!! After slaughtering countless Giants for endless hours I was apprehensive! What do I have to do? Slaughter all of Kael singlehanded? If I could do that I wouldn't need their stinking armor! ARRRRGHHHHH!!!!!! :smileymad:
/rant off

... and that was in 2004 (several years post-Velious-release)

But, as I tried to explain, it's not "cheating" in any P99 sense, just in the sense that what's happening here is easier than what was on live. And again, my point in bringing this up wasn't to say "you're a non-classic cheater if you kill giants before the fix", it was just to say that if however many people playing Velious on live could do it without the bug, so can anyone here.

implemented because on Live it ALSO got changed
I checked the patch notes and didn't see any mention of this, so I assumed it was a P99 thing. But I'll freely admit I didn't check very hard, so it's entirely possible I missed it and this is a classic fix. If so I apologize for implying otherwise, but my point remains the same.

Exactly how does this help anything, or improve upon the game by making faction grind even longer than it is.

There are many, many non-classic changes that would make the game better, and I'd donate $500 on the spot if it would make the devs spin up a "Classic+" server with those changes (bring back light blue mobs and buff timers!). But nevertheless live was brutal in a lot of things: slow raising of dragon faction from killing nameless giants is far from the only one. If you make those things less brutal here than it's simply not classic, and (I believe) that's what happened here.

[Lhancelot]

... and that was in 2004 (several years post-Velious-release)

But, as I tried to explain, it's not "cheating" in any P99 sense, just in the sense that what's happening here is easier than what was on live. And again, my point in bringing this up wasn't to say "you're a non-classic cheater if you kill giants before the fix", it was just to say that if however many people playing Velious on live could do it without the bug, so can anyone here.


I checked the patch notes and didn't see any mention of this, so I assumed it was a P99 thing. But I'll freely admit I didn't check very hard, so it's entirely possible I missed it and this is a classic fix. If so I apologize for implying otherwise, but my point remains the same.



There are many, many non-classic changes that would make the game better, and I'd donate $500 on the spot if it would make the devs spin up a "Classic+" server with those changes (bring back light blue mobs and buff timers!). But nevertheless live was brutal in a lot of things: slow raising of dragon faction from killing nameless giants is far from the only one. If you make those things less brutal here than it's simply not classic, and (I believe) that's what happened here.

Well, the post by random forumquester_1000233 does indicate faction grinding was hard from his perspective, but honestly we can't take one post wrought with hyperbole and claim it as gospel.

I see your point though, and I also concede that it probably was harder to raise faction on Live therefore is getting changed to match it as such.


***I still feel it's fine as it is and doesn't need a patch to change it. :p

[Floraline]

On the Live program server, I did Karl Arena twice and was ally to CoV, so they must have changed it since 2004.

[loramin]

but honestly we can't take one post wrought with hyperbole and claim it as gospel.

On the Live program server, I did Karl Arena twice and was ally to CoV, so they must have changed it since 2004.

Yeah, I'm a lazy person so I just picked the first (admittedly not so ideal) example I could find. I'm sure the devs have much better examples behind their decision though.

[Lhancelot]

Yeah, I'm a lazy person so I just picked the first (admittedly not so ideal) example I could find. I'm sure the devs have much better examples behind their decision though.

It's fine, I just don't see this change adding any benefit to the game, classic or not.

[Nuggie]

I believe the policy of the devs is to have faction on p99 how it is on the live servers -right now-which makes it super easy to check without research. You log on you level xxx on eqlive, you hop a couple zones on your bard speed mount. You wipe out the zone. You check your logs for the faction hit mount. Our boy Daldaen was happy to oblige.

Tbh, with all the years nilbog has been putting in to this project (getting close to 10 I would think) I don't blame him for not wanting to go super gumshoe on faction guessing.

[Sancta]

level 35's tagging hits randomly.

Where did the "3" come from?

[Sadiki]

Not everything needs to be an argument, jeez people. The fact is you get good faction now, it's been like that for years, and you should probably take advantage of it while you can. You aren't forced to.

[Lhancelot]

Not everything needs to be an argument, jeez people. The fact is you get good faction now, it's been like that for years, and you should probably take advantage of it while you can. You aren't forced to.

Some people feel the need to make a statement, but only when they disagree or can find fault in what someone else says. Just the nature of human beans.

[loramin]

it's been like that for years

Velious hasn't even been out "for years". Like everything else on this server Velious is the first draft of the dev's attempt to perfectly recreate classic EQ. As with any first draft they don't always get it right, and when they figure that out they fix it.

All this is is a bug getting fixed, and there's just been some healthy discussion over whether it truly is that or something that belongs.

[Expediency]

I've gone from scowling to max ally several times and each time its taken me about 4-6 hours. Maybe that isnt classic but a whole afternoon of tagging mobs ought to be enough for anyone.

[kjs86z]

I've gone from scowling to max ally several times and each time its taken me about 4-6 hours. Maybe that isnt classic but a whole afternoon of tagging mobs ought to be enough for anyone.

This exactly. Wish they'd just leave it as is. Sometimes QoL > "but it isnt classic!"

[trite]

Velious hasn't even been out "for years". Like everything else on this server Velious is the first draft of the dev's attempt to perfectly recreate classic EQ. As with any first draft they don't always get it right, and when they figure that out they fix it.

All this is is a bug getting fixed, and there's just been some healthy discussion over whether it truly is that or something that belongs.

Server is full of non-classic features that have been deemed better by devs.

[indiscriminate_hater]

I've gone from scowling to max ally several times and each time its taken me about 4-6 hours. Maybe that isnt classic but a whole afternoon of tagging mobs ought to be enough for anyone.

Not vlassic

[syztem]

Just grinding the sentinels ALONE will take you max kos to ally in roughly 4-5 hours(did this solo as a rogue). I understand they give roughly same hits as the giants in GD etc and kael, but that lieutenant, surveyor, overseer, tox/escorts all give anywhere from like 15-50 per kill. Which understandably they are more difficult. But considering stuff like vindi/statue/KT only gave around 100 faction is pretty weak, thats like killing 10 giants out on the wall in WL.

I have parsed from max kos to ally++ 3 times on my rogue, first time was purely sentinel grind, no kael hits no kael boss hits and thats where i got the #/hrs spent. second time I mixed in some surveyors/overseers/lieutenants etc maybe a few toxx hits but not many. and my total kill count was about 50-60 less kills for the same faction.

Haven factioned numerous "new" toons who never took a CoV hit, jumping into a faction group or two where we sit at tox hill and pull all the sent/labourers/surveyor hut up, and just root or fear kite everything and burn it down with sheer rogue dps. I have got around 5-6 characters from mid scowl or low scowl to ally within 2hrs at max.

Even if they change, it will not be hard to grind the faction out unless they reduce it to like 3 faction per giant, which would be what nearly 3x less then current average giant kill?

[loramin]

Server is full of non-classic features that have been deemed better by devs.

Oh really? Sure there are a few outliers like boats (which have reasonable explanations, like that boats are really F-ing hard to program apparently), but I'm curious to hear the list of non-classic features that this server is "full of".

[Jaxon]

I wouldn't say that the server is "full of" unclassic mechanics by design, but there are a few here and there.

Roegan saying no (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139980) to classic DA aggro dump despite overwhelming evidence.

Making necromancer lifetap spells unclassically resistable (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48145) to fix an issue with Ivandyr's Hoop, an item that no longer has any raid relevance.

Classic pets that can dual wield 2H and weighted axes are deemed too OP for P99. (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134805)

The hard-coded 25 mob ae limit (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252292) was made more in the interest of balance and preventing server disruption than classicness.

[Lhancelot]

I've gone from scowling to max ally several times and each time its taken me about 4-6 hours. Maybe that isnt classic but a whole afternoon of tagging mobs ought to be enough for anyone.

That's my sentiment too.

I mean for real. Grinding faction doesn't need to be a 30 hour process to make it feel fulfilling. It's fricking retarded at that point.

But w/e. People want it to take more time, so be it.

Personally I like the way it is.

That being said, get it in folks before it's too late.

[Lhancelot]

I have got around 5-6 characters from mid scowl or low scowl to ally within 2hrs at max.


Calling BS on this bro. But w/e guess you must get faction faster than me.

Even though I been in groups where we are waiting for spawns, meaning we wiping giants out so fast we got to wait for them to spawn.

Took me 5-6 hours in these types of faction grinding groups and I was taking characters there that had zero faction hits one way or the other.

[XeroKill]

Oh really? Sure there are a few outliers like boats (which have reasonable explanations, like that boats are really F-ing hard to program apparently), but I'm curious to hear the list of non-classic features that this server is "full of".

How about FTE messages, and GM enforced raid scene, and lawyerquesting, and variance, and five years of Kunark stagnation, and...

The point is that the "Not Classic" argument is old, hypocritical, and only trotted out in defense of unpopular decisions by the staff regardless of whether or not it is true to the spirit of the server. Either everything is classic, or this argument is null. The second the devs made one unilateral decision for the sake of the current server, that tired line was rendered pointless and thus, even a single example of it is enough to counter your claim.

[loramin]

How about FTE messages, and GM enforced raid scene, and lawyerquesting, and variance, and five years of Kunark stagnation, and...

The point is that the "Not Classic" argument is old, hypocritical, and only trotted out in defense of unpopular decisions by the staff regardless of whether or not it is true to the spirit of the server. Either everything is classic, or this argument is null. The second the devs made one unilateral decision for the sake of the current server, that tired line was rendered pointless and thus, even a single example of it is enough to counter your claim.

So the rules, mobs, and zones are all classic, everything looks just like it did a 1.5 decades ago, and there's even a staff of developers and GMs just like on live (only these ones aren't getting paid) ... but because the raid scene has a few changes to accommodate the massive differences from live (way more people who are way more hardcore) the server is "full of non-classic features"?

Everyone's entitled to their opinion I guess, but the way I see it this server is as classic as it possibly can be, and they keep working to make even more classic (eg. this fix).

[XeroKill]

So the rules, mobs, and zones are all classic, everything looks just like it did a 1.5 decades ago, and there's even a staff of developers and GMs just like on live (only these ones aren't getting paid) ... but because the raid scene has a few changes to accommodate the massive differences from live (way more people who are way more hardcore) the server is "full of non-classic features"?

Everyone's entitled to their opinion I guess, but the way I see it this server is as classic as it possibly can be, and they keep working to make even more classic (eg. this fix).

The very first thing that you listed as being "just like it did a 1.5 decades ago" is exactly my counter to your argument. The rules are anything but the same, the rules are in fact the most non-classic thing this server has to offer as I pointed out by listing FTE messages, GM enforced raiding rules, lawyer questing, and variance. My point stands as a matter of your own argumentation.

The point of the argument is that A) Not everything that is classic is better, B) the developers have, on more than one occasion, strayed from classic design to accommodate the differences between live then and P99 now, therefore C) the "not classic" argument is not valid. It is, at best, a cop out... a hand-waving dismissal of valid criticism to avoid having to actually make any kind of definitive stance. They can apply the "Classic" moniker at will, and dismiss it as easily, thus rendering the entire exercise a giant middle finger to the players.

EDIT to add: Just as a refresher on how we got to this point... you asked for "all these non classic features" wherein several examples were put forth that refute your position, but rather than concede your position, or even reformulate your premise, you simply dismiss the points against you as if they were not exactly what you asked for. Good form.

TL;DR - "It's Classic" is a load of bollocks.

[shuklak]

This server is so classic all you gotta do is log in and see it.

Beating the point with words is like convincing someone the sky is brown.

[Jimjam]

Faction being a ball ache to accrue is part of the velious game design, and is a balance to the powerful items that can be quested.

Being able to circumvent this timesink bloats the game with overgeared characters and cuts out decisions on whether or not it is worth engaging factioned mobs.

This is a needed change and will keep the true-blue server fresher when it is released.

[Just facts]

That's my sentiment too.

I mean for real. Grinding faction doesn't need to be a 30 hour process to make it feel fulfilling. It's fricking retarded at that point.

But w/e. People want it to take more time, so be it.

Personally I like the way it is.

That being said, get it in folks before it's too late.

Prolly the only"camp" ingame where everyone have the same goal and are actively helping each other without drama.(and all it took was faction for people to be nice to each other, no rules no staff no nothing other then faction)
Aye lets remove it asap, can't have people doing this!

[Lhancelot]

Prolly the only"camp" ingame where everyone have the same goal and are actively helping each other without drama.(and all it took was faction for people to be nice to each other, no rules no staff no nothing other then faction)
Aye lets remove it asap, can't have people doing this!

Yeah it's kind of funny when you see people grinding faction now, you see Awakened, Aftermath, Rustle, unguilded, Kittens, Infernus, essentially you see every guild and non-guild type player there working together getting faction.

It is kind of funny if you look at it that way.

[syztem]

Just make another toon, I have 1 primal rogue geared out to be negative CoV faction. And I have a second primal rogue equally as geared, to fight with CoV faction for pvp. Solves all the issues, don't have to re faction every dozekar loot etc.

[syztem]

Calling BS on this bro. But w/e guess you must get faction faster than me.

Even though I been in groups where we are waiting for spawns, meaning we wiping giants out so fast we got to wait for them to spawn.

Took me 5-6 hours in these types of faction grinding groups and I was taking characters there that had zero faction hits one way or the other.

I don't know if its true that certain diety's start at a higher/less scowl rate or what not, but 2 hours to ally(NOT MAX ALLY) is not bullshit, its easily done. Respawn is about what 6 1/2 minutes 7 minutes max? there is approx 8 sentinels on the wall + 2 the at the entrance, there is i think 5 + surveyor in hut. Then there is 4 labourers + lieutenant, and i THINK 4 Escorts, 2 of the golden tox giants. thats roughly 26 giants every 6-7 minutes. Almost everything dies nearly instantly once everyone gets there hit in, the tox giants take a bit more work but they still die anywhere from 20-40 seconds since escorts can be assassinated.

[Sun Apr 16 11:42:34 2017] Wuoshi glares at you threateningly -- what would you like your tombstone to say?
[Sun Apr 16 12:03:01 2017] Wuoshi looks your way apprehensively -- what would you like your tombstone to say?
[Sun Apr 16 14:01:36 2017] Wuoshi kindly considers you -- what would you like your tombstone to say?

obviously not <2hrs but that was on a level 44 mage which a necklace click put me just into warmly // and not keeping everything down quick enough, this ones a bit older and i was max ally by time I noticed and ran to wuoshi anyway for the con. so thats about 2hrs from amiable. It is not unreasonable to believe that mid/low scowl to amiable only takes about 45 minutes or ~10 waves of kills if you pull everything.

[Thu Dec 10 20:43:25 2015] Wuoshi judges you amiably -- what would you like your tombstone to say?
[Thu Dec 10 20:58:17 2015] Wuoshi kindly considers you -- what would you like your tombstone to say?
[Thu Dec 10 22:49:46 2015] Wuoshi regards you as an ally -- what would you like your tombstone to say?


5-6 hours would be from max kos, with not getting every single hit especially the ones that apparently give larger hits ie lieutenant, surveyor/tox/tome/overseer on spawn or simply slow kill/pull.

[Kelor]

Bump need more at WL.

[Kelor]

Need more at WL

[Kelor]

Group going at WL but still need more.

[Zorrok]

still don't understand velious factioning i need to look into it. I have never been to velious ever! looking forward to it. -Swooshin- Iksar Mnk lvl 30 - 4-6hour factioning you say? I have probably got 8hours in crushbone killing orcs for kelethin faction and selling Dvinns dagger on the cheap.. went from scowls to glares... still KoS..


if anyone wants to PM me on how to get my scales to Velious PST

[loramin]

still don't understand velious factioning i need to look into it. I have never been to velious ever! looking forward to it. -Swooshin- Iksar Mnk lvl 30 - 4-6hour factioning you say? I have probably got 8hours in crushbone killing orcs for kelethin faction and selling Dvinns dagger on the cheap.. went from scowls to glares... still KoS..


if anyone wants to PM me on how to get my scales to Velious PST

There are three factions, Dwarf, Giant, and Dragon. Most (good) races start out somewhat cool with the dwarves, but not with the giants, while evil races start out the reverse. Dragons hate everyone at first. When you kill monsters of one faction it raises the other two factions (or sometimes only one). Because of this, you can never have more than two factions in Velious.

All three factions have a set of armor quests, and some people decide (for instance) "I'm going to be on Giant faction because I like their armor best". The problem is, if you decide that before raiding, then join a raiding guild, you basically have to adopt whatever faction(s) your guild has (and your guild might kill giants). So really I wouldn't worry about Velious faction until you start raiding, unless you need to for a quest (eg. if you're an Ogre who wants to do the Coldain Prayer Shawl quest you need to get some Dwarf faction even if you never plan to raid).

As for getting to Velious, catch a boat in Ro (I think South Ro) to Iceclad Ocean, or get a port there. You can't port to any other Velious destination though because you have to visit the "dragon circle" (druid rings/wizard spire) first on foot, and pickup a "tooth" for that circle on the ground. The tooth acts like a sort of key (a key that lets you port to that circle).

[Cen]

I think dwarves and giants are cool and dragons should be eradicated and at best be worn as decoration or used as carpets and fancy shoes. Is there a way I can be a giant and dwarfbro?

[Danth]

I think dwarves and giants are cool and dragons should be eradicated and at best be worn as decoration or used as carpets and fancy shoes. Is there a way I can be a giant and dwarfbro?

Sure, raise up Thurgadin faction to where you want it, then acquire dwarf heads (people sell them sometimes) or kobold paws and turn in lots of those until your Kael Drakkel faction rises to where you like. The wife's Shaman is positive faction with both dwarves and giants from utilizing this method.

Danth

[Kelor]

WL group seeks more