Druids the most efficient group pullers?

[richice]

Is it just me or are druids one of the most efficient pullers in the game? I think druids are one of the best leveling group pullers (outside zones especially). This works even better with another healer and/or mana buffs.

I always enjoyed pulling and being efficient when leveling with a group. I started pulling in MM, and have continued to in CoM and KC. I'm not saying even a rogue couldn't pull in these zones, but I am saying druids do it the most efficiently. When you have any other class pull, you sacrifice damage (monk, ranger) or buffs (bard) to chain pull mobs. As a druid who only has to side heal (or even main heal), as long as your mana is decent, all you need is to harmony, snare, and root. You can lay out the mobs in the space you have with these 3 spells.

I'm not saying this for anything other than leveling groups. I compare druids mostly to how paladins and shadow knights make great tanks for leveling groups. I also consider enchanters to be efficient pullers as well with: calm, tash, sick pet, mez adds etc. as long as the group can CC the pet if charm breaks while they are pulling.

[Rang]

You're right. They are great pullers in outdoor zones. But the minute you enter in Seb, HS, LGuk, or SolB - you are gonna have problems

[welly321]

I read this post as "Druids do the least amount of things in groups, therefore they are not missed when out pulling, therefore they are the best pullers"

[richice]

I read this post as "Druids do the least amount of things in groups, therefore they are not missed when out pulling, therefore they are the best pullers"

Hahaha I am torn between my level 12 monk or enchanter as my next character to play. I only started the druid to gear up my other classes. I like being active in EQ so I do my best with what the druid has to offer :p

[Jimjam]

Rangers get better ranged attacks and sneak, but yeah druids aren't bad. I think they do sacrifice more by missing out on meditation than rangers though.

I suspect a ranger is more likely to be geared towards pulling than a druid too.

[richice]

Rangers get better ranged attacks and sneak, but yeah druids aren't bad. I think they do sacrifice more by missing out on meditation than rangers though.

I suspect a ranger is more likely to be geared towards pulling than a druid too.

I thought about that too, but you miss out on damage from the ranger being gone. If there is continuous mobs sitting in the camp, you need that melee damage to take them down. Also, if you have a good tank who only needs a heal here and there, the druid isn't burning that much mana with harmo, snare, and root especially with a clarity going. I do fully agree that rangers are great pullers as well though. I'm a halfling, so I sneak too (not very good though).

[DaddyTrollzBerg]

Monk > SK > All Bums.

[Amyas]

Bards, monks, SKs, ect imo beat them

[indiscriminate_hater]

Bards best pullers outdoors, hands down. Rangers are probably second. If a druid is pulling then they're not medding, and therefore not providing what limited utility they do have for a group situation.

[Troxx]

I can think of a few instances outdoors where unresistable ranger/druid harmony is much better than bards. In general though, bard probably best.

[richice]

I'm not arguing the fact that bards are amazing pullers. What I am saying is druids can line up several mobs for the group to kill, without hindering the group from finishing them off. A bard out to pull another mob means there are no buffs for the group to finish off the current mobs. A monk out to pull means they aren't dishing out damage to the mobs. If the tank is 80-100% health, and the druid is 50-100% mana, a druid would be the most efficient puller since they, as welly321, "are not missed when out pulling".

Now if the pulls aren't chained back to back (where there is always a mob to kill in the camp), and the druid needs to med to heal, by all means send someone else out.

[Maner]

I'm not arguing the fact that bards are amazing pullers. What I am saying is druids can line up several mobs for the group to kill, without hindering the group from finishing them off. A bard out to pull another mob means there are no buffs for the group to finish off the current mobs. A monk out to pull means they aren't dishing out damage to the mobs. If the tank is 80-100% health, and the druid is 50-100% mana, a druid would be the most efficient puller since they, as welly321, "are not missed when out pulling".

Now if the pulls aren't chained back to back (where there is always a mob to kill in the camp), and the druid needs to med to heal, by all means send someone else out.

This argument is flawed. Your reasoning is a monk would be more help dosing until the mob dies than pulling. Well you could always just get a 2nd monk and then be better off than with a Druid anyway. You mention that the ranger isn't dosing when out pulling while at the same time the Druid is doing nothing when out pulling AND when not pulling.

[Phatez]

Necros are easily the best pulling class in the game right now. They are the only class that can do all of the following:

Root, FD get up split Pull
Set bind anywhere, tag -gate, pet pull, HS face agro-Tl box, snare split, can split 10 mobs with sow and roots and gate/leash

Literally no class comes close to what necros can do. Most necros only know how to do 5% of it.

Necros easily 2x better than monks. Only 2 pros of monk to necro are Insta FD and survivabolity

[shuklak]

It's good to appreciate that a pulling monk cannot dps. But there's no free lunch here. The druid pulling can't dps either such as nukes. Even if they are not the best it's still a trade off.

[richice]

Replacing the healer for a monk sounds a bit flawed, but I guess bind wound would work. Anyways, let's put it this way, what is the most inefficient thing in the game? I would argue healing. Group members besides the tank getting beat on, anyone losing health/healing in general is inefficient. Therefore, if the druid is the only healer in the group and doing something besides healing, the efficiency will go up. No?

I did not say they were useless, I quoted "are not missed when out pulling". Meaning since, in most cases, druids are saving mana for heals and NOT dps, they are better off hunting more mobs (if they are able to maintain mana for heals).

[richice]

Necros are easily the best pulling class in the game right now. They are the only class that can do all of the following:

Root, FD get up split Pull
Set bind anywhere, tag -gate, pet pull, HS face agro-Tl box, snare split, can split 10 mobs with sow and roots and gate/leash

Literally no class comes close to what necros can do. Most necros only know how to do 5% of it.

Necros easily 2x better than monks. Only 2 pros of monk to necro are Insta FD and survivabolity

Great input.

[richice]

Alright, I "Concede" - I didn't mean to "Rustle" any feathers. I'm just really enjoying this game so much that instead of the usual lurking the forums, I decided to start posting. I'm back in the stages I was in when I was playing live, and can't stop thinking about EQ. I'm turning to ForumQuest when I'm unable to play EverQuest. This community is one of a kind. I really hope most of you stay, and not go to Agnar.

[Darkatar]

I really hope most of you stay, and not go to Agnar.

Let em, they'll be back.

[gattaka]

Druids are the best pullers in Unrest once they get wolf form and con indif to all the mobs there. It makes it a cake walk if you're in a fireplace group pulling the upper rooms. Just walk in, harmony, pull without worrying about aggro.

[Varren]

Its a lot of fun pulling with my druid. If i have some clarity, i can sometimes manage a pet, heal, and chain pull. Such a blast

[welly321]

Druid is doing nothing when out pulling AND when not pulling.

Exactly. This guys whole argument is that druids don't contribute to a group so they might as well be out pulling. Which is true.

[Handull]

Best might be a stretch, but it's fun pulling on a Druid, especially in dungeons. It's a bit lame when sow wears off and you can't refresh it, but it just means you have to strafe run for once. Pulling is just fun in general. If you have a charmed pet back in camp (Karl anyone?) then you'll be pulling double duty and won't need much more than c2 to stay up on mana

[Troxx]

Druids contribute to groups just fine. They aren't and never will be a min/max class but can pull their weight just fine.

By level 50:

-group regen has a heal potential of 16.5hp per healed mana spent (1100 per person x6)

-24 or damage shield (5 mins 120 mana). Hit only 10x a minute that equates to 10 aggro free damage for each mana spent. 20x a minute = 20 damage per mana spent and so on. Damage shield on the tank has always been and will always be the best damage per mana ratio for any of the casting classes.

-skin like nature (frequently overlooked) gives hp/AC and 2hp/tick regen. Looking at the healing only that's 1440 potential healing for 300 mana (nearly 5hp healed per mana spent)

While these are not glamorous additions to a group - they are powerful additions to all groups in this level range. Those 3 things alone are trivial for a 49 Druid to maintain with plenty of mana left over for healing. Complete heal aside, single target Druid healing at is 2.3:1 compared to lower cleric blast heals 2.5:1 and 2.6:1 ratios. Excluding cheal, cleric still maintains advantage with a more efficient celestial heal.

Str buffs, snares, roots and DD are extras along with harmony pulling and group sow.

Druids are underrated. They are fine additions to groups but sadly do not fit into the min/max ideal groups that this server always favors. They synergize very well into awkward groups. Paired with a shaman and 4 melee (without sufficient hp to maximize cheals potential) willing to spread out damage, they can actually put out more healing over time with continuous 12hp/tick (nearly a fungi) to the whole group. As a leveling shaman, I always greatly appreciated not having to deal with the burden of maintaining 6 regens at 200-300 a pop. Having regens on everyone equates to less wasted mana from blast heals - always worth keeping up.

Higher 50 up to 60:
Regrowth of grove 16550+ potential healing 600 mana (27.6:1 heal ratio potential)
Natureskin: 3240hp regen for 400 mana (8:1 heal ratio potential)
DS: 32 per hit 150 mana (1.5 damage per mana spent for every hit per minute)
POTG: ridiculous stacking mana regen

Classic eq is slow paced and favors regen. Prior to 60 you're looking at 19/tick hp regen to the whole group. At 60 POTG is crazy good.

Druids are actually well balanced. The problem isn't with the Druid, it's the community's perspective of the Druid. I like having them in a group.

[Kotopes]

Till mid 50's they also create the most OP pure exp grind combo: enc+druid;

Druid pulls, uses lvl 1 snare when mob in camp.
Enc casts "Chase the moon" and sits down while hasted dw pet kicks the crap outta mobs.
Keep pulling and reapply regens and ensnares on pets and enjoy that massive xp.

Even when there's no animal to charm, it is still extremely OP. When there's one around, it's insane. I've had dozens of dead mobs rottin' in DL. A few times we were trained by a bard with like 10 mobs and still survived the mess.

[Spyder73]

Till mid 50's they also create the most OP pure exp grind combo: enc+druid;

Druid pulls, uses lvl 1 snare when mob in camp.
Enc casts "Chase the moon" and sits down while hasted dw pet kicks the crap outta mobs.
Keep pulling and reapply regens and ensnares on pets and enjoy that massive xp.

Even when there's no animal to charm, it is still extremely OP. When there's one around, it's insane. I've had dozens of dead mobs rottin' in DL. A few times we were trained by a bard with like 10 mobs and still survived the mess.

I think the Necromancer would like to have a word with you....All I am reading is that Druid excel at leeching from enchanters who are good at charming.

Also as someone who has a high level Monk and Bard - Bard is the best puller in the game by a large margin

[maskedmelon]

Druid is second only to wizard in the inadequacy for their contributions to groups :c i agree with OP though, if you find yourself grouped with a Druid, find them a use. You will feel better about the arrangement and so will they ^^

The farce of charitable magnanimity sates not a parched heart.

[Swish]

I have called on many a druid in a Highkeep goblin group to help me split the warrior or raider room - harmony so good.

Typically though rangers are better. Same spellset for pulling honestly, but they are less mana heavy and can keep pulling without breaks.

[Kotopes]

I think the Necromancer would like to have a word with you....All I am reading is that Druid excel at leeching from enchanters who are good at charming.

Also as someone who has a high level Monk and Bard - Bard is the best puller in the game by a large margin
I still think this is the most OP xp-grind duo where druid is utilized as a puller.

Necros are not as efficient in this setup, unfortunately while of course it's still decent xp in enc-nec duo. The idea is to have constant stream of incoming mobs. A druid has to pull them non-stop, often in packs of 2-3 so I hardly call this leeching. The mana usage is pretty small too, lvl 1 snare costs almost nothing, spare from ocassional regen and sow refresh. The ensnare lasts like 12 min and makes controlling that hasted DW pet a breeze.

If there's a suitable animal present for a druid to charm as well, then common outdoor blue trash dies almost instantly. Also don't forget 50% exp penalty where enc has to waste time and mana finishing kills solo. This is also a non-issue in this setup.

[Spyder73]

I still think this is the most OP xp-grind duo where druid is utilized as a puller.

Necros are not as efficient in this setup, unfortunately while of course it's still decent xp in enc-nec duo. The idea is to have constant stream of incoming mobs. A druid has to pull them non-stop, often in packs of 2-3 so I hardly call this leeching. The mana usage is pretty small too, lvl 1 snare costs almost nothing, spare from ocassional regen and sow refresh. The ensnare lasts like 12 min and makes controlling that hasted DW pet a breeze.

If there's a suitable animal present for a druid to charm as well, then common outdoor blue trash dies almost instantly. Also don't forget 50% exp penalty where enc has to waste time and mana finishing kills solo. This is also a non-issue in this setup.

How is a necromancer less effective than a Druid at ANYTHING, let alone a duo (where they excel)? Almost every high level zone has undead in it that necromancers can charm to add another charm DPS pet(Seb, HS, KC, CoM), necromancers heal better than druids, necromancers do way more damage than druids, necromancers can twitch enchanter to keep at near FM 100% of the time, J-boots neutralize SoW, Necro root is the same as druid root, necros can snare just as well as druids, DMF for levitate, best fear in the game...necromancers are one of the best support classes in the game and group better with literally any class combo than a druid would. Necro hasted Rogue pet probably out damages an unhasted charmed bear, so even if there is wildlife I still give edge to necro.

Necromancer can do everything a druid can do + Feign Death...Its silly to argue Bard is not the alpha puller though, they can do everything and split any room and can move faster than any class in the game (by a lot)

[Amyas]

Druids contribute to groups just fine. They aren't and never will be a min/max class but can pull their weight just fine.

By level 50:

-group regen has a heal potential of 16.5hp per healed mana spent (1100 per person x6)

-24 or damage shield (5 mins 120 mana). Hit only 10x a minute that equates to 10 aggro free damage for each mana spent. 20x a minute = 20 damage per mana spent and so on. Damage shield on the tank has always been and will always be the best damage per mana ratio for any of the casting classes.

-skin like nature (frequently overlooked) gives hp/AC and 2hp/tick regen. Looking at the healing only that's 1440 potential healing for 300 mana (nearly 5hp healed per mana spent)

While these are not glamorous additions to a group - they are powerful additions to all groups in this level range. Those 3 things alone are trivial for a 49 Druid to maintain with plenty of mana left over for healing. Complete heal aside, single target Druid healing at is 2.3:1 compared to lower cleric blast heals 2.5:1 and 2.6:1 ratios. Excluding cheal, cleric still maintains advantage with a more efficient celestial heal.

Str buffs, snares, roots and DD are extras along with harmony pulling and group sow.

Druids are underrated. They are fine additions to groups but sadly do not fit into the min/max ideal groups that this server always favors. They synergize very well into awkward groups. Paired with a shaman and 4 melee (without sufficient hp to maximize cheals potential) willing to spread out damage, they can actually put out more healing over time with continuous 12hp/tick (nearly a fungi) to the whole group. As a leveling shaman, I always greatly appreciated not having to deal with the burden of maintaining 6 regens at 200-300 a pop. Having regens on everyone equates to less wasted mana from blast heals - always worth keeping up.

Higher 50 up to 60:
Regrowth of grove 16550+ potential healing 600 mana (27.6:1 heal ratio potential)
Natureskin: 3240hp regen for 400 mana (8:1 heal ratio potential)
DS: 32 per hit 150 mana (1.5 damage per mana spent for every hit per minute)
POTG: ridiculous stacking mana regen

Classic eq is slow paced and favors regen. Prior to 60 you're looking at 19/tick hp regen to the whole group. At 60 POTG is crazy good.

Druids are actually well balanced. The problem isn't with the Druid, it's the community's perspective of the Druid. I like having them in a group.

This

[branamil]

I don't see how necro heals are superior to Druid heals.

[Spyder73]

I don't see how necro heals are superior to Druid heals.

Ok tell me how Druids are better heals

Chloroblast costs 175 mana and heals 428

Shadowbond costs 0 mana and heals 500 + you can dispel recourse on yourself to further the OP’ness

Self healing is not even worth discussing as the necromancer is king

[branamil]

Shadow bond takes 24 seconds to heal. In group situations you will have bursts of damage that you need to heal to keep the tank or clothie from going down.

Necro heals might be "decent" but your crazed fanboyism is bizarre.

[Spyder73]

I just don't like Druids and this post triggers me because the entire argument is "Druids are the least missed class in a group therfor the best puller"

[deezy]

How is a necromancer less effective than a Druid at ANYTHING, let alone a duo (where they excel)?
While I agree with most of your post there are a few points I would like to address.
necromancers heal better than druids
I agree that necros have better sustained and are more efficient healers than a druid. However, a necros can not complete with a druid if the target needs a burst of healing. Such as several adds disrupting the group flow or a charmed pet breaking and wrecking squishies.
necromancers do way more damage than druids
Depends on the situation. Over the course of an hour DPSing for a group I totally agree. If you ask a necro and druid of burst down a mob as quickly as possible I believe a druid has a decent chance at coming out ahead.
J-boots neutralize SoW
Besides j-boots being much slower then sow (depending on the level), you can't reliably count on a pug necro to have j-boots. i have no expectations of a low level necro to have them.
Necro root is the same as druid root
This also very much situational. On one hand necro root does not break mez. On the other hand a druid root is cheaper, has a lower cast time, and does a decent amount of damage.
Necro hasted Rogue pet probably out damages an unhasted charmed bear
I believe it is a reasonable assumption the druid will haste their own charmed pet unless circumstances prevent it.

[deezy]

Oh, and I forgot to mention druid snare lasts many minutes longer and doesn't break mez.