apex's loot system

[KEWLGET]

can someone explain it to me?

i thought it was a DKP system, but it's not zero-sum DKP yet the person who bids on an item with the most DKP is guaranteed it? and best in slot items have a fixed value of 40 DKP?

i also heard that tune has 1600 DKP saved up, so he's guaranteed basically whatever loot he could possibly want for the foreseeable future, hypothetically assuming apex doesn't completely dissolve by next week?

but it's not DKP though because Cyren can and does refuse to take peoples' tells on certain items and instead guarantee them to whoever he wants? (see: Quil on his Shovel of the Harvest)

i don't get it

[shokar]

Player A has 400 DKP and wants a Crown of rile which has a fixed cost of 40
Player B has 401 DKP and also wants the rile.

Player B gets the pixel and is deducted 40 DKP.

[KEWLGET]

*except when one of the officers says you're not allowed to send tells

[Beastagoog]

PIXELS, a man's soul can be consumed by them.

[Nyrod]

KEWLGET bro, just join Ragnarok....youll get that shovel

either you are mad you wouldnt get it on your alt (mains have priority over alts always) or you dont like shark, because what ranger in Apex doesnt have a shovel that needed one that was main ranger when shovels were going to non rangers/alts because everyone had one?

W T F?

also, we didnt get a shovel and low probability we will get one again.

CYA

[Terpuntine]

KEWLGET bro, just join Ragnarok....youll get that shovel

either you are mad you wouldnt get it on your alt (mains have priority over alts always) or you dont like shark, because what ranger in Apex doesnt have a shovel that needed one that was main ranger when shovels were going to non rangers/alts because everyone had one?

W T F?

also, we didnt get a shovel and low probability we will get one again.

CYA

http://i.imgur.com/PL8W1hl.gif (http://imgur.com/PL8W1hl)

[GradnerLives]

Player A has 400 DKP and wants a Crown of rile which has a fixed cost of 40
Player B has 401 DKP and also wants the rile.

Player B gets the pixel and is deducted 40 DKP.

Wrong.

It's a trick question, the rile doesn't go to Player A or B in apex.

It goes to a 3rd alt with 12% attendance in Ragnarok.

[funnland]

It is DKP. Very simple, as Shokar mentioned.

There have been issues with missed tells (legitimate mistake), or items being awarded improperly (officers abusing their power). This is true, but very rare.

I would say 99.9% of the loot decisions have been fair, where DKP dictates the winner. Simple as that.

Anyone that has been in Apex knows I'm right.

[GradnerLives]

*(as in pixel overflow, not rewarding non-attendance)

[KEWLGET]

KEWLGET bro, just join Ragnarok....youll get that shovel

either you are mad you wouldnt get it on your alt (mains have priority over alts always) or you dont like shark, because what ranger in Apex doesnt have a shovel that needed one that was main ranger when shovels were going to non rangers/alts because everyone had one?

W T F?

also, we didnt get a shovel and low probability we will get one again.

CYA

why are you making this thread about me

it's about the loot system in apex

[KEWLGET]

It is DKP. Very simple, as Shokar mentioned.

There have been issues with missed tells (legitimate mistake), or items being awarded improperly (officers abusing their power). This is true, but very rare.

I would say 99.9% of the loot decisions have been fair, where DKP dictates the winner. Simple as that.

Anyone that has been in Apex knows I'm right.

so there's no decay

there's no bidding

it's not zero sum

but the highest DKP gets an item by default at a very, very low cost

and officers can overstep the entire system

hmm..

[Terpuntine]

so there's no decay

there's no bidding

it's not zero sum

but the highest DKP gets an item by default at a very, very low cost

and officers can overstep the entire system

hmm..


http://i.imgur.com/7y2f990.gif (http://imgur.com/7y2f990)

[GradnerLives]

If using a pure DKP system you really have to do silent auction, otherwise it's exactly like kewlget is pointing out.

You get hoarders that can basically cock-block any fine pixel away from even a reasonable 50-60% attendee.

At least with the silent auction system you end up with the heavy DKP hoarders bidding larger amounts against one another, letting people lower on the roster catch up.

Personally I prefer a loot council. No DKP system is ever going to cover all of the off-hours epic/lvling/utility-item-restocking/attitude/etc and all of those are important factors to a successful raiding guild, not just showing up.

It's certainly good to keep track of attendance and items rewarded but, at the end of the day, using that as the only metric ends up letting people game the system by showing up to raids, afking through, and collecting their loot handouts then logging off right after raids are done.

[Nyrod]

Terp knows whats going on, so glad, cuz i was confused for over a year now... RIIIGHT

ok.gif

only an idiot wouldnt send a tell on an item they wanted because they thought they wouldnt get it and cry that foul that someone else got it and they didnt get it.

DKP list was public to everyone in the guild. someone higher on list got what they wanted 98% of the time. we didnt even go on RA unless someone was like sub 50% because we knew people sometimes took breaks or had RL. this was more an issue for ST keys and only some people got bent out of shape because keys were going to rogues/monks/alts before non essential classes (no Warders) because 75% of the time in ST a keyed shaman/chanter/bard/cleric wouldnt even fucking show up so ya keys went to alt shaman/chanter/bard/clerics.

and i say 98% because there were times my tell was missed by someone i know would never slight me, my girl Callisto, and it wasnt corrected in time before the other person awarded looted said item. also heard this happend a FEW RARE other times, shit gets missed, it happens.

other than that, i dont think i can recall anyone needing to go apeshit bergers because of leadership corruption and not following CLEARLY POSTED DKP LIST (though it happened on 1 or 2 occasions on NON DKP items i wont mention to sully the names of current guildmembers)

GTFO of here

[KEWLGET]

so you basically just confirmed what i just said here:

so there's no decay

there's no bidding

it's not zero sum

but the highest DKP gets an item by default at a very, very low cost

and officers can overstep the entire system

hmm..

[Pseudechis]

Great bloke huge contributor and all round pal has 400 DKP and wants a Crown of rile which has a fixed cost of 40
Warm body shitter has 401 DKP and also wants the rile.

Tunes alt gets the pixel and is awarded 40 DKP.

Fixed for you blueflower.

[Nyrod]

i agree, there needed to be a decay

but can you state ANY INSTANCE this was ever abused by leadership?

which of them has 2 toons with vulak/doze gear? which of them has 2 AoNs?

alts? oh...ya...shark has an army of alts with mad gear.....when did he ever get that shit over a main? and how many idiots were lazy about playing/gearing a raid worthy toon that logged on 10 shark alts that he leveled and geared to make Apex successful, and it helped.

dude, all this shit is public in the guild, spin this shit how you want. i was top 10 earned/spent/current dkp for 7/9? of the months i played and i never took an alt item once, never main switched, doze/vulak only on 1 toon, never took anything i didnt need as an upgrade.

all spin and fake news

[funnland]

One other thing about DKP. It rewards the most active loyal players.

Obviously DKP does not measure what people actually contribute, so it is not perfect. But you have to look at it from a macro level. The top contributors who show up for every raid will get rewarded, out of some of those, some people who don't really deserve that much loot will also get rewarded just for showing up. Overtime this averages out well. The important thing is that anyone who IS a top contributor will eventually get rewarded. Again, the side effect is that some undeserving people will get loot.

Loot council in my opinion suffers from the inverse. People who don't contribute don't get loot which is good. Most of the people who are top contributors get loot. But then some top contributors get left behind. You also have the issue with how the loot council operates, personal conflicts with the officers affecting loot decisions, etc...Another issue is how you accurately quantify what somebody does for the guild? CH chain put in a lot of work, so do pullers, and what about mobilizing, PVP, and stuff outside of raids?

In my opinion, taking the human element of loot decisions is mostly for the best. Especially on a server like this, where there is a lot of bitterness between players and such. Then again, if I was really good friends with the people making loot decisions, it wouldn't matter much to me I suppose.

[Nyrod]

mage with 150 dkp got doze shield sunday, been active in guild 1 1/2 months?....corrupt

the amount of insane gear we gave out to people because they were a MAIN and had just joined and wanted something over someone who was in guild for months on their ALT, most people would cry foul....CLEARLY NOT FAIR

[KEWLGET]

so you basically just confirmed what i just said here:

[Nyrod]

if you feel that way, so glad we got that sorted out

[funnland]

I can only think of a few instances (out of 100's of drops) where officers overstepped the system, and in each case officers were quickly called out on it.

But I don't need to argue this. Everything is on the website, in plain view. You can see every single loot award in the history of the guild (minus preDKP/non-raid stuff).

[GradnerLives]

Would like to go over these loot award records with my accountant HB and provide an independent audit.

U got a blue line 4 me?

[Nyrod]

also, i know a few instances that officers overstepped dkp because someone wanted a minor upgrade or wanted an item that was clearly not an item they should bid on.

also saw times when they didnt because they were told to fuckoff because someone wanted that item and they wanted to spend their dkp on THAT item.

neither time or any time did i ever see it in relation to any of leaderships toons.

not worth arguing, sometimes people literally dont want to see the things a different way because they are so emotionally invested in one viewpoint.

[Nyrod]

ill get my pal to make a spreadsheet and ill post it on my blog.

[GradnerLives]

also, i know a few instances that officers overstepped dkp because someone wanted a minor upgrade or wanted an item that was clearly not an item they should bid on.

also saw times when they didnt because they were told to fuckoff because someone wanted that item and they wanted to spend their dkp on THAT item.

neither time or any time did i ever see it in relation to any of leaderships toons.

not worth arguing, sometimes people literally dont want to see the things a different way because they are so emotionally invested in one viewpoint.

http://i.imgur.com/yXOyTwI.png

[GradnerLives]

a few instances that officers overstepped dkp
someone wanted a minor upgrade
clearly not an item they should bid on

[KEWLGET]

so what you're telling me is that my synopsis is correct

[funnland]

Nobody is trying to argue that DKP systems are perfect. Only that over the long term, they tend to be fair for members due to stripping a lot of power from the officers. For example, if an officer has personal issues with a member, they are very limited in screwing them on loot. There will always be edge cases in either system (DKP or Loot Council).

[Jeni]

I raided a month or two with apex most of the loot was distributed fairly. Straight dkp mains over Alts. Is the system great for late comers looking for bis loot? Probably not top 30ish we're pretty much locked above you forever. The only real problem was st keys going to cyrens 8th rogue over mains that guild members would then be forced to play for pve.

[Beastagoog]

Both systems have their ups and downs:

straight dkp rewards neckbeards and is great for new players joining because the neckfags are trying to get BiS items and you can clean up on minor items, will take a new player a LONG time to get a decent item tho

loot council rewards those that deserve the items - downside is corruption and wormy cunts sucking up to the council (plenty of those on this server)

it's give or take really.

[Pseudechis]

i agree, there needed to be a decay

but can you state ANY INSTANCE this was ever abused by leadership?

which of them has 2 toons with vulak/doze gear? which of them has 2 AoNs?

alts? oh...ya...shark has an army of alts with mad gear.....when did he ever get that shit over a main? and how many idiots were lazy about playing/gearing a raid worthy toon that logged on 10 shark alts that he leveled and geared to make Apex successful, and it helped.

dude, all this shit is public in the guild, spin this shit how you want. i was top 10 earned/spent/current dkp for 7/9? of the months i played and i never took an alt item once, never main switched, doze/vulak only on 1 toon, never took anything i didnt need as an upgrade.

all spin and fake news

Who are you?

[georgie]

Wouldn't need cyrens rogues if they'd stop allowing paladins and druids , rangers.

[Nyrod]

lol your guys reading comprehension is embarrassing

[Nyrod]

Who are you?

im updating my blog, will let you know afterwards.

[Retticus]

It is DKP. Very simple, as Shokar mentioned.

There have been issues with missed tells (legitimate mistake), or items being awarded improperly (officers abusing their power). This is true, but very rare.

I would say 99.9% of the loot decisions have been fair, where DKP dictates the winner. Simple as that.

Anyone that has been in Apex knows I'm right.

Cyren tells you, 'don't taunt me. and don't touch me on raids.'

Cyren tells you, 'shrug, you're only hurting yourself. last i recall you werent on loot council'

Cyren tells you, 'good luck.'

[TheDuck]

being as i know most of the people in apex, and being from the other side, i can say without a shadow of a doubt apex's loot system is FLAWED AS FUCK, that said. it's still more fair than any other guild any of they have been in.

Thats why you have a bunch of people saying here, "it's fine except when cyrens alt loots his 9th loot". Which is pretty indicative of whats going on all over the guild, not just that one spot. So basically, It's fine until its not.

[Nirgon]

Cyren tells you, 'don't taunt me. and don't touch me on raids.'

Cyren tells you, 'shrug, you're only hurting yourself. last i recall you werent on loot council'

Cyren tells you, 'good luck.'

Turns out I'm not one of the people that's "pretty cool" and don't have a chance to join them.

1 week left before the door closes. How the doors closes, however, may be fairly ironic.

[magician]

good luck


on that job search

[Retticus]

Cyren trades loot for blue plat

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[Retticus]

http://i.imgur.com/ogTmQYQ.png

[TheDuck]

http://i.imgur.com/ogTmQYQ.png

[shokar]

Every time i enter a zone with rettiwalk i tell him not to disrespect me.

[GradnerLives]

http://i.imgur.com/ogTmQYQ.png

[Nirgon]

Every time i enter a zone with rettiwalk i tell him not to disrespect me.

Don't res him whatever u do